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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by GeneLady on April 18, 2008, at 23:15:02
A family member is in a research study for people with brain damage that involves "training" activities on a computer. The young woman who is sort've administering the study has, upon seeing me with my family member, glared at me, turned up her nose, make impish faces at me like a child who's being nasty. Ok, that's what it is - nasty immature and certainly unprofessional behavior. The woman is then very polite in what she says and how she says it so of course when I react out loud, I look like a fool. I am very, very aggravated and have thought about telling the psych in charge but am afraid I'm looking petty. I don't know what to say. So far, I'm telling the family member not to go back any more.
This is bizzaro - I've never heard of anything like this before.
Anyone else? What to do?
Posted by Quintal on April 19, 2008, at 11:13:57
In reply to Bad Student Counselor/Psychologist Wanna-be, posted by GeneLady on April 18, 2008, at 23:15:02
This is a sensitive point for me becasue it reminds me of my pdoc, Dr. W. He has the mentality of a nasty, viscious, little boy. For years I thought it was just me projecting my feelings onto him or something, but I laughed when my social worker recently said the same thing, and she works with him every day. She said "he comes accross as the arrogant prat, doesn't he?". At times I've felt like running out of the room becuase he makes me so uncomfortable. Like you, I want to complain but I'm afaraid it would seem petty, and it is I suppose. Recently I saw his collegue and he was so much different.
I don't know what to advise. I suupose there's not a lot you can do since she's careful to be very polite in what she actually says to you. Maybe she has some sort of personality disorder? Not all of them get weeded out by the selection process. I've definately encountered this sort of behaviour before in other members of the mental health profession. Another possibility is that she doesn't know she's doing these things - maybe she's not aware of the signals her body language is sending? Nevertheless it's very irritating behaviour - mine curls his lips up into a sneer most of the time I'm talking and it's very distracting. At the last appointment, as I was leaving he wafted his hand toward the door in a gesture of dismissal and disgust - a bit like how you'd throw away a bag of dog turd or something. Left me feeling like a peice of sh*t, and I think it was meant to. But yeah, he's *usually* very polite and professional in what he says to me, but on occasions things have slipped out which show his true feelings. Once he even bashed his fist on the desk like toddler having a temper tantrum. Even his collegue jumped and shot him a look. It's very upsetting because you start to wonder if you're doing something to deserve that kind of treatment, but having met his collegue I feel more secure in the fact that it's his problem, not mine. I know of one other patient who has had similar problems with him. Again, there's just not a lot you can do about that kind of thing unless they actually say or do something abusive, but I know the frustration. Anyway, best of luck whatever you decide.
Q
Posted by GeneLady on April 19, 2008, at 13:29:28
In reply to Re: Bad Student Counselor/Psychologist Wanna-be » GeneLady, posted by Quintal on April 19, 2008, at 11:13:57
I am so glad to hear your comments. One other person in the community recently mentioned that quite often people go into this field (and I say it with all due respect for the many who are in fact dedicated and competent) because they have serious mental disorders. Ok, it's one thing to have a mental disorder that's under control; it's something else to not have it under control and practice adverse behavior in a professional capacity.
In fact, "control" is I think a lot of what this is about! For some reason I'm a threat to her and I think she is trying to get back at me. I expect to have some control over the treatment my family member is receiving as he is not always able to think clearly. I suspect that she doesn't like that; she wants to be the queen bee and I've gotten in her way. It has been a very difficult situation living with a mentally ill and physically ill person plus my own physical needs and the last thing I need is to deal with someone who literally is making nasty faces at me. It is no accident; it is very deliberate. She also talks down (like to a child) to my adult family member which just infuriates me.
I've thought about writing to the psych in charge overall (he knows who I am) but ... this is ridiculous and crazy especially for me but I can't think of the words to use to describe what she's doing !!!! I mean, how dumb does it sound to say "your research administrator is making nasty faces at me" ??? That would make me look even more foolish! I'm wondering what would be the best words to use!!!
I guess that after all these years, if I was going to a therapist who treated me like dirt I would bring it up unless I was too uncomfortable and if I didn't feel better about it would make a beeline for someone who treated me with more respect and dignity. The last thing you or anyone needs is to be put down. Guess that's why Dr. Bob talks about being civil on these boards (big grin).
In my particular instance, I'm not the patient so I have less direct influence/interaction with the trainee. But, I'm still affected by her.
I hope we receive some more insights. This must be at least some degree of a hot button in mental/behavioral health.
Best to you.
> This is a sensitive point for me becasue it reminds me of my pdoc, Dr. W. He has the mentality of a nasty, viscious, little boy. For years I thought it was just me projecting my feelings onto him or something, but I laughed when my social worker recently said the same thing, and she works with him every day. She said "he comes accross as the arrogant prat, doesn't he?". At times I've felt like running out of the room becuase he makes me so uncomfortable. Like you, I want to complain but I'm afaraid it would seem petty, and it is I suppose. Recently I saw his collegue and he was so much different.
>
> I don't know what to advise. I suupose there's not a lot you can do since she's careful to be very polite in what she actually says to you. Maybe she has some sort of personality disorder? Not all of them get weeded out by the selection process. I've definately encountered this sort of behaviour before in other members of the mental health profession. Another possibility is that she doesn't know she's doing these things - maybe she's not aware of the signals her body language is sending? Nevertheless it's very irritating behaviour - mine curls his lips up into a sneer most of the time I'm talking and it's very distracting. At the last appointment, as I was leaving he wafted his hand toward the door in a gesture of dismissal and disgust - a bit like how you'd throw away a bag of dog turd or something. Left me feeling like a peice of sh*t, and I think it was meant to. But yeah, he's *usually* very polite and professional in what he says to me, but on occasions things have slipped out which show his true feelings. Once he even bashed his fist on the desk like toddler having a temper tantrum. Even his collegue jumped and shot him a look. It's very upsetting because you start to wonder if you're doing something to deserve that kind of treatment, but having met his collegue I feel more secure in the fact that it's his problem, not mine. I know of one other patient who has had similar problems with him. Again, there's just not a lot you can do about that kind of thing unless they actually say or do something abusive, but I know the frustration. Anyway, best of luck whatever you decide.
>
> Q
Posted by Phillipa on April 19, 2008, at 13:30:21
In reply to Re: Bad Student Counselor/Psychologist Wanna-be » GeneLady, posted by Quintal on April 19, 2008, at 11:13:57
Is it your relative with the medical problem? Thought it was you so sorry for how you've been treated. Love Phillipa
Posted by Gee on April 19, 2008, at 14:21:20
In reply to Bad Student Counselor/Psychologist Wanna-be, posted by GeneLady on April 18, 2008, at 23:15:02
I have the same problem... well sort of. I deal with the disabilities office at school and I constantly feel like the coordinators and counsellor/advisor talking down to me. Just because I have a learning disability doesn't mean that I'm dumb. It's the most frustrating feeling in the world.
Have you tried pointing out her behaviour to her? It can be hard but sometimes a "I feel I'm not understanding by that look you gave me" or a questioning look after she gives you a mean look may help. If it doesn't, I would go to her supervisor. You're probably not the only person to whom this is happening. Is the treatment helping your family member? If it is, it might be worth speaking up for yourself (not the easiest thing, but it can make a HUGE difference), but if it's not...
Hope this helps a bit...
Posted by Quintal on April 19, 2008, at 14:54:38
In reply to Re: Bad Student Counselor/Psychologist Wanna-be » Quintal, posted by GeneLady on April 19, 2008, at 13:29:28
I think the control aspect is the problem with my pdoc too. I like to choose my own medications and this rubs him up the wrong way - he likes to be in complete control, and he's used to getting it too. I suppose most people just toe to the line and do what he says, but I challenge him and this upsets him. He definately sees me as a threat because at times I've been more knowledgable about certain medications than he has, and he's told me this irritates him. I think it's an issue that crops up lot in the mental health profession.
I'll bet it's infurating for your family member to be talked to like that as well, but people in that position often seem to accept whatever treatment they're given. I used to work in a nursing home and I've seen it happen to the elderly too. I was in a psychiatric hospital recently and some of the staff used to talk to me as if I were a retarded child or something. Again, in there it's all about power and control. Just nurse after nurse being pithy and condesceding because they get some sort of power trip out of it. They even had uniforms and bunches of keys around their waists like prison wardens, not nurses. It's hard to get the respect and dignity you deserve in these places.
>I've thought about writing to the psych in charge overall (he knows who I am) but ... this is ridiculous and crazy especially for me but I can't think of the words to use to describe what she's doing !!!! I mean, how dumb does it sound to say "your research administrator is making nasty faces at me" ??? That would make me look even more foolish! I'm wondering what would be the best words to use!!!
I know! How do you phrase what the problem is without sounding ridicullous yourself?! One time my pdoc's secetary slammed the door repeatedly against my heels as I was leaving the unit, as if trying to trip me up. That really bugged me, so much so that I considered making a complaint, but what could I say without sounding childish and petty myelf? Nobody deseves this kind of teatment. How are people supposed to get better when they're treated in this manner? You end up feeling like a human doormat.
As others have suggested, you're probably not alone in this. She's most likely doing it to other people as well. Maybe it just takes a few brave souls to come forward and make a complaint before the supervisor gets the message that there's a problem with this woman? I think you'd be doing other patients and family members a service if this was brought to their attention.
Q
Posted by obsidian on April 19, 2008, at 18:43:11
In reply to Bad Student Counselor/Psychologist Wanna-be, posted by GeneLady on April 18, 2008, at 23:15:02
I would say first consider what you may have to lose by confronting this behavior....if it is something you can tolerate, then I say speak up
there's too many of these types of people running around in positions which render their behavior all the more problematicI might say it very matter of factly..."that was an interesting facial expression just then, what was that about?"
you don't seem to be imagining it, many people before and many people after you will likely experience the same thing, nonverbal or not, it sounds obnoxious!
Posted by Happyflower on April 21, 2008, at 19:20:20
In reply to Bad Student Counselor/Psychologist Wanna-be, posted by GeneLady on April 18, 2008, at 23:15:02
Well I have to say all kinds of people are in the psych field.
I have also have seen a difference in the researchers personalities and T's personalities from my profs. at school. There are reasons some go on to be a T and some would rather not deal with people much in research. This isn't the case for everyone, but I do feel there are some general personality characteristics of people who choose research as opposed to being a T. This may not be a scientific fact, but it is just what I have observed at my school.
Posted by GeneLady on April 21, 2008, at 22:11:57
In reply to Re: Bad Student Counselor/Psychologist Wanna-be, posted by Phillipa on April 19, 2008, at 13:30:21
It's my family member (adult) who is being treated, in a research study, for disease-caused brain damage. He chose to take part in the hope that it would help. There are no drugs involved in the study.
The psych is not directly involved although he does treat my relative for a mood disorder and he knows who I am. In many ways I like the psych.
The problem is w/the administrator. I've only seen her a very few times and each time I got the feeling I was a threat because she acted so sn***y. My family member acknowledged that she is very arrogant and does talk down to him. The last time was the last straw for me - far more for me than my relative. Perhaps it's because of the stressful situation I'm in with the family member and a new job. I really think that administrators and all other care givers need to be especially careful about dealing with family and this one is just plain unethical.
Probably there's an element of vengance in my attitude but I don't think it's totally unfounded, though.> Is it your relative with the medical problem? Thought it was you so sorry for how you've been treated. Love Phillipa
Posted by GeneLady on April 21, 2008, at 22:23:46
In reply to Re: Bad Student Counselor/Psychologist Wanna-be, posted by Happyflower on April 21, 2008, at 19:20:20
I forgot to mention that the administrator is the counselor/psychologist "wanna-be." i.e., she's a student who is allegedly about to have a doctorate. That's what's shocking. After reading some of the other posts in this thread I see that this type of thing has happened to others. I shudder to think about her treating someone with a serious mental illness and dealing with their families.
I don't really want to take my relative out of the study; just want to make sure that this so-and-so is no longer in contact with him or me.
I'm formulating letters in my head and have been for about a month. Trying not to be impulsive ... of course, when I'm already upset I notice that this bothors me more! Guess I'll write it out.
Posted by GeneLady on April 29, 2008, at 21:05:34
In reply to Bad Student Counselor/Psychologist Wanna-be, posted by GeneLady on April 18, 2008, at 23:15:02
I did it - I finally did it. Last night I wrote a note to the real psych overseeing the research project. I told him that I do not want R (counselor/psychologist wanna-be) to call my family member or test him any more. I never really directly said anything bad about her but I did describe the type of characteristics I'm looking for in a facilitator (for lack of a better title). I mentioned other concerns (some of which he has already heard) re my family member. I believe I kept the tone and words polite and I definitely thanked him. I did not try to take my family member out of the project but rather asked for someone else as the contact person/facilitator.
I strongly believe this counselor/psychologist wanna-be really thought she could get away with her behavior. I decided to call her on it by going over her head, politely. I think that in research patient abuse is an especially delicate issues. Of course, in this case it was really the patient's family member who was the one being abused. Guess I'll see what happens. Probably will take a few weeks.
Thanks for everyone's input - I needed the extra perspective.
This is the end of the thread.
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