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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 32. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dinah on October 6, 2005, at 17:34:33
I terminated her today.
Well, to be honest, I obediently made another appointment, then called to cancel it and terminate.
I wish I were a better person, but the oncology clinic where she has her office was a deal breaker. The first time wasn't so bad. She was on time, I was on time. I was full of Risperdal. This time she kept me waiting ten minutes, and I was out of Risperdal. I noticed that it wasn't just a waiting room. All the patients were sitting around in recliners getting their IV drips in a big circle. I'm sure it's all very homey and relaxing (although I personally would rather literally die than receive public treatment). But it's hard to believe that people don't throw up there. It caused way too much tension in the middle of my emetaphobia obsession outbreak.
Plus.... well, I learned some things not to say or do till I've known a therapist longer, like a year or two. Trouble is if I hide those things for a year or two, therapy will be useless in that time period.
I'm almost positive now that Huntsville was just an enthusiasm. But I'm on my way tomorrow anyway, and I'm not sure about internet access because I'm leaving my computer with my husband who needs it for work. I'll try to check out the local libraries. :)
Posted by orchid on October 6, 2005, at 17:45:52
In reply to t2 is toast, posted by Dinah on October 6, 2005, at 17:34:33
Oh God. I am so sorry. I know it is very hard to imagine going to therapy in the circumstances you have mentioned.
It must be really hard.
I think you should perhaps fine a male T. You will probably get over the initial hesitation in a few weeks. Plus it doesn't have to be a replacement to your real T. Try not to think of in those terms. Just as he would see other women patients, but you are still unique to him, you can see other male Ts and still keep your Real T unique. Maybe you can think along those lines?
Posted by Tamar on October 6, 2005, at 17:57:55
In reply to t2 is toast, posted by Dinah on October 6, 2005, at 17:34:33
> I terminated her today.
Oh no! I’m so sorry it didn’t work out!
> Well, to be honest, I obediently made another appointment, then called to cancel it and terminate.
>
> I wish I were a better person, but the oncology clinic where she has her office was a deal breaker. The first time wasn't so bad. She was on time, I was on time. I was full of Risperdal. This time she kept me waiting ten minutes, and I was out of Risperdal. I noticed that it wasn't just a waiting room. All the patients were sitting around in recliners getting their IV drips in a big circle. I'm sure it's all very homey and relaxing (although I personally would rather literally die than receive public treatment). But it's hard to believe that people don't throw up there. It caused way too much tension in the middle of my emetaphobia obsession outbreak.Yeah, I can imagine. Although… maybe the throwing up depends what meds they’re on.
I used to have emetophobia. I never ever threw up and I couldn’t be around other people who did. Getting food poisoning cured me (oddly enough). I threw up so often in the space of 24 hours that I think it desensitized me. Hypnotherapy is probably more fun than food poisoning… have you ever considered it? I sometimes think it would be the answer to my sl*g phobia...
> Plus.... well, I learned some things not to say or do till I've known a therapist longer, like a year or two. Trouble is if I hide those things for a year or two, therapy will be useless in that time period.
You hit the nail on the head: you could waste two years getting to the stuff you really need to talk about. Are you regretting telling her stuff because you didn’t like her waiting room? I could understand your regret if you didn’t like *her*, but maybe there’s more to it than I understand. Sorry for being dense.
> I'm almost positive now that Huntsville was just an enthusiasm. But I'm on my way tomorrow anyway, and I'm not sure about internet access because I'm leaving my computer with my husband who needs it for work. I'll try to check out the local libraries. :)
I hope you have a good trip. And that you enjoy the libraries! Let us know how you feel after you’ve been there again.
Tamar
Posted by Dinah on October 6, 2005, at 18:42:36
In reply to Re: t2 is toast » Dinah, posted by orchid on October 6, 2005, at 17:45:52
Well, the name my therapist gave me is a man, and I figured I'd try him next.
I just as well, because I called five therapists at the same time I called the one I just terminated, and she was the only one who called back. I don't know if people aren't back yet or what. :(
I had the same problem when I found my therapist. I basically went with him because he's the only one who seemed interested in working with me.
What is it with therapists around here? Well, I suppose this time I can blame it on the hurricane. But last time was either them or me.
Posted by JenStar on October 6, 2005, at 18:46:47
In reply to t2 is toast, posted by Dinah on October 6, 2005, at 17:34:33
ayayayayayayay! It makes me shudder! I mean, if that works for the patients, I empathize and hope they are getting well and de-stressing as much as possible.
But for ME, a hater of illness, and a hypochondriac, sitting in an ONCOLOGY TREATMENT ROOM would absolutely not work. I can completely, totally sympathize with you! Yikes!
Before you totally terminate, can you ask her if there is a separate waiting room or a place to avoid the cancer patients? I'd imagine she's heard such complaints before....you CAN'T be the only one! Or does this just "feel right" anyway, because you weren't bonding with her yet?
I'm so sorry. Do you have other T's that you can see?
JenStar
Posted by Dinah on October 6, 2005, at 18:46:59
In reply to Re: t2 is toast » Dinah, posted by Tamar on October 6, 2005, at 17:57:55
Hmmm... Maybe I'll add hypnotherapists to my list of people to try. It's worth a shot and might be interesting.
My regret in telling her sensitive stuff is that there are some things you tell therapists that get a very negative reaction, and I suppose it's better not to tell those things until they know you well and realize you aren't going to be a management problem to them, or a faker, or something like that. I told too early this time. Big mistake. She didn't say she wouldn't work with me or anything, but the tone in the room changed.
It's a shame that there are psychological issues that are taboo to talk about with therapists. :(
My interest in the libraries is the free internet access. :) So maybe I'll drop by before I get back.
Posted by Dinah on October 6, 2005, at 18:51:22
In reply to Re: t2 is toast » Dinah, posted by JenStar on October 6, 2005, at 18:46:47
She told me about it before the first visit (well, about the clinic, not the big circle), and I told her my reservations. Her advice was to not come early. Trouble was that I didn't come early either time, but she was late this time. I guess I could wait outside, but I don't think I like her well enough to bother.
I may try again, but I'm discouraged. Also on the basis of the session content. I know she didn't mean to, but she shamed me in her comments on my closed eyes, tone of voice, and maybe demeanor too. I can't recall. Once I've been shamed, I can rarely if ever get over it. I've got to hand it to my therapist. He is very non-shaming, even to very easily shamed me.
Posted by orchid on October 6, 2005, at 18:58:20
In reply to Re: t2 is toast » JenStar, posted by Dinah on October 6, 2005, at 18:51:22
From what you have said, this T doesn't seem to be good for you.
Plus, I think if a T is too stylish, it might lessen your sense of self esteem. A moderate looking T is better for us!!. And definitely not one who makes you feel ashamed.
Posted by fallsfall on October 6, 2005, at 22:15:04
In reply to t2 is toast, posted by Dinah on October 6, 2005, at 17:34:33
You did a great job going to see her. It is OK if you don't want to stay with her. Those sessions were your "interview" sessions. You can interveiw as many therapists as you want to until you find one that feels OK to you.
That does sound a bit offputting... I really appreciate my therapist's waiting room - almost all the time I'm the only one there.
Would you like me to post the URL for my "how to find a therapist" post?
Have a good time exploring a new city. Keep in touch.
Posted by gardenergirl on October 6, 2005, at 23:46:38
In reply to Re: t2 is toast » Dinah, posted by fallsfall on October 6, 2005, at 22:15:04
Oh Dinah,
You were so brave just to go at all, knowing about the kind of place her office was in.I'm so sorry it didn't work out. I hope you try again when you are ready, and that you still find support from T1.
(((dinah)))
gg
Posted by JenStar on October 7, 2005, at 0:49:05
In reply to Re: t2 is toast » JenStar, posted by Dinah on October 6, 2005, at 18:51:22
Well, she sounds kind of like a b**ch to me! I agree with the poster who said these are like interview sessions. After your current far-away T it's going to be hard for a new T to stack up, but some will stack better than others. :) This one doesn't sound too stackable to me!
I'm sorry she shamed you. Do you think she was intentionally doing it somehow, or is it just something about her personality that is not warm and welcoming?
Sometimes even the most beautiful people are not threatening, as long as their demeanor is nice. But if she *makes* you feel weird, then I think it's something she's doing, too.
Anyway, I'm sure there will be a better fit for you out there. I'm sorry it sucks to have to search though. Take heart and take care!
jenStar
Posted by Dinah on October 7, 2005, at 4:49:39
In reply to Re: t2 is toast » Dinah, posted by JenStar on October 7, 2005, at 0:49:05
I want to be fair. She seems perfectly nice. And I'm sure she didn't mean to shame me.
It's just that some topics are sensitive to me, my appearance and demeanor being two. And to have her comment on them, and in the same tone she used to comment on my coping skills, was distressing to me and made me feel ashamed.
It wasn't really her fault.
There were a couple of other things too. She asked *big* questions. Not as in the important sort that stick in your mind and make you think. I've forgotten the specifics already. But the really open ended sort that are said in a tone that clearly expects a "right" answer, but that are so broad that I have no idea what the right answer is. Like "How would you picture mental health?" I knew she was getting at some of my dysfunctional coping skills, and that's fine, but that question was just too big. It left me totally blank. And attempts on my part to narrow the question down a bit into parts I could digest just led to restatements of the original question.
It was nothing wrong on her part. My coping skills *are* dysfunctional and I guess it's reasonable to wonder why after so many years of therapy I cling to them. And closing my eyes and my very soft tone of voice in therapy are my way of concentrating and talking about tough topics, but I guess they *do* look odd. It's not like she pointed any of those things out unkindly, but she did point them out. And maybe I didn't feel like she knew me well enough to point them out. Or that she could have been more positively neutral or interested or curious, rather than sounding as if she were pointing out something I should change.
My therapist says I'm too sensitive, and I probably am. But I'm not impossible. I thought my son's play therapist was great, so it's not like I'd hate any therapist presented to me.
Just most of them. :(
Posted by Dinah on October 7, 2005, at 4:55:49
In reply to Re: t2 is toast » Dinah, posted by fallsfall on October 6, 2005, at 22:15:04
I know. I'm not overly concerned about it except for the fact that there aren't many therapists around right now. Like I said, of the five therapists I called (and I only called those whose offices aren't in places that are likely destroyed), and whose voicemail picked up, she was the *only* one who returned my call.
I have your post bookmarked. :) Yet I still didn't follow any of your excellent advice. Even now I have no idea of her theoretical orientation. (Hmmmm... It now occurs to me that when I asked I didn't use the word "theoretical". I wonder if she thought I meant gender orientation. I forget that they don't expect us to care or know about these things.)
My husband's going to let me take the computer, so I should be able to keep in touch.
I'm not sure about enjoying it though. Work requests are starting to trickle in, so I might have to come back early. I'm not going to feel too guilty about taking a long weekend though.
Posted by Dinah on October 7, 2005, at 4:57:40
In reply to Re: t2 is toast, posted by gardenergirl on October 6, 2005, at 23:46:38
I did email him. But I try to put in each email that I don't expect a reply, and that although I feel comfort in touching base with him, I'd feel uncomfortable if he felt like he needed to respond.
He did write me a very brief note the other day saying that I shouldn't worry about having done anything wrong.
Posted by Tamar on October 7, 2005, at 7:56:05
In reply to Re: t2 is toast » Tamar, posted by Dinah on October 6, 2005, at 18:46:59
> My regret in telling her sensitive stuff is that there are some things you tell therapists that get a very negative reaction, and I suppose it's better not to tell those things until they know you well and realize you aren't going to be a management problem to them, or a faker, or something like that. I told too early this time. Big mistake. She didn't say she wouldn't work with me or anything, but the tone in the room changed.Ah, I see what you mean… I suppose that makes most sense if you’re certain that waiting till they’ve got to know you will ensure they take it better. (Sorry for the poorly-structured sentences. I’m struggling a bit today.) What I means is: if you share this stuff early on in the relationship (like first month or so) you might be able to weed out the people who can’t deal appropriately with it. Unless it’s the sort of thing that all therapists can handle appropriately as long as they know you well enough…
> It's a shame that there are psychological issues that are taboo to talk about with therapists. :(
Absolutely. And I’m sorry she shamed you too :(
*Bad* therapist…I hope you find someone soon.
Tamar
Posted by terrics on October 7, 2005, at 12:33:50
In reply to t2 is toast, posted by Dinah on October 6, 2005, at 17:34:33
Hi Dinah, This must be horrible for you. Leaving your T. of so many years and then getting a BIG LOSER. How would anyone want to go to therapy in that situation Even if you are vey empathetic toward the cancer patients, therapy time is just for you. Yes, cancer pts. are sick and need empathy, but someone having therapy for mental healh should not be combined with oncology patient's in the same location. In my opinion it is completely unfair. I hope that your'e next decision works out well. I hope that you can keep us posted. terrics
Posted by Annierose on October 7, 2005, at 16:37:55
In reply to t2 is toast, posted by Dinah on October 6, 2005, at 17:34:33
Just keep on keeping on. You'll find someone that you feel more comfortable with. Tardiness would bother me (especially on appointment number 2). And shame, well, who needs to feel that? I have enough already.
Hope your time in Huntsville is a good distraction.
Posted by Dinah on October 7, 2005, at 19:07:45
In reply to Re: t2 is toast » Dinah, posted by Annierose on October 7, 2005, at 16:37:55
Chuckle. Huntsville is not anything like I remembered. But then again I looked it up and I was last here in 1977. rofl.
I don't think I'll try another therapist. I think I'll just substitute Risperdal for therapy. I always knew they were about equivilant, but Risperdal is worse for my diabetes and has some other risks that therapy doesn't have. But I suppose you could say therapy has some risks that Risperdal doesn't.
From my bill at the pharmacy before they fixed the insurance, the cost is about equivilant.
Posted by alexandra_k on October 7, 2005, at 21:24:49
In reply to Re: t2 is toast - Orchid and » JenStar, posted by Dinah on October 7, 2005, at 4:49:39
????
After how many sessions????
I mean... I guess I do understand that sometimes thats all it takes to figure out that things are not going to work out but... I can't help wondering a little...
> It's just that some topics are sensitive to me, my appearance and demeanor being two.Yeah. I think everybody probably has sensitive topics. I know that I surely do. But I guess the only way they are going to learn which your sensitive topics are is to hit the nerve a little and see by how you respond. Otherwise... I guess they don't really have any idea. Things like that take a little time to figure out.
>And to have her comment on them, and in the same tone she used to comment on my coping skills, was distressing to me and made me feel ashamed.
Hmm.
:-(
Yuk. I hate that feeling...
Could you have told her you felt that way?
Like... 'those things are pretty sensitive topics for me and I feel a bit distressed and ashamed about them and so I need you to be a bit careful?'
Would that be a possibility?
Because then... She would know. And if she doesn't back off then then I guess that would be it for me. But I guess it is hard... Hard when she doesn't know...
> There were a couple of other things too. She asked *big* questions. Not as in the important sort that stick in your mind and make you think. I've forgotten the specifics already. But the really open ended sort that are said in a tone that clearly expects a "right" answer, but that are so broad that I have no idea what the right answer is.Oh yes! I hate those questions... The ones that are open ended (because they are supposed to ask open ended questions) but where they seem to expect a particular sort of reply... But then... Some other people have said this too, and it turned out that when they said something like 'I don't know how to respond to that because I'm feeling like you have some particular answer in mind and I don't know what it is' then that can help... Because sometimes they don't expect a particular answer (and it can be good to know that) or othertimes they do (which they need to change) or othertimes the question simply doesn't have the effect (to get you talking) that they thought it would and so telling them how you respond to those kinds of questions can help them see that they need a new strategy...
> Like "How would you picture mental health?" I knew she was getting at some of my dysfunctional coping skills, and that's fine, but that question was just too big. It left me totally blank. And attempts on my part to narrow the question down a bit into parts I could digest just led to restatements of the original question.
Yeah. I hate those conversations too...
I think the only way around them...
Is to talk about how those types of questions make you feel...
If she is just trying to get you to talk to her...
Then you might have some better ideas as to how she can best engage you...
THose kinds of things take time
Time for you to get to know each other.
> And closing my eyes and my very soft tone of voice in therapy are my way of concentrating and talking about tough topics, but I guess they *do* look odd.I do those too... Maybe she doesn't know that its your way of concentrating and being able to answer to the best of your ability.
> It's not like she pointed any of those things out unkindly, but she did point them out. And maybe I didn't feel like she knew me well enough to point them out. Or that she could have been more positively neutral or interested or curious, rather than sounding as if she were pointing out something I should change.
Could you tell her that?????
Because... That sounds fair enough to me...
And maybe... She doesn't realise that her doing that had the effect it did on you...
> My therapist says I'm too sensitive, and I probably am.I don't think there is any such thing as being TOO sensitive.
Being sensitive is just noticing...
Its what we do with the things we become aware of that can be hard...
About the waiting room...Is there any way around that?
Really.
I mean...
I can understand how that kind of waiting room could be very hard indeed for someone who is worried about other people throwing up.
Do you have a cellphone?
Maybe you could wait in the parking lot or something like that and she could call you
Or come and get you from there when she is ready to see you???
Posted by Annierose on October 8, 2005, at 6:21:29
In reply to Re: t2 is toast, posted by Dinah on October 7, 2005, at 19:07:45
Dinah -
Remember doors are open, so if you change your mind, you'll be able to seek additional on-going support. I don't think having someone to talk to would be a bad idea.
Does talking with another T feel like betrayal? (Back to the love affair concept)
It's amazing how our minds can romanticize (sp?) a city. Plus, in 30 years, towns grow and change and add lots of Starbucks on every corner.
Posted by fallsfall on October 8, 2005, at 8:08:50
In reply to Re: t2 is toast, posted by Dinah on October 7, 2005, at 19:07:45
You could move to my state.... I'd be happy to have you close by.
I think that you know that Risperdal is not the same as therapy.
My understanding is that your experience with t2 was "not stellar". She was OK, but there were things that you would want to work out with her. But her waiting room was a problem.
An experience like that doesn't seem to mandate giving up on therapy forever...
My personal opinion (even though you didn't ask...) is that you would benefit from a period of interviewing therapists. I think that you should talk to 4 therapists (you've done the first already) before you make any kind of decision. I think that it would be helpful for you to have the experience of doing the interviewing.
I know that therapists in your area aren't being particularly responsive. But if you can see that as a truth of the area, rather than an indictment of you, I think you can get through that. So you made 5 phone calls and got 1 response - that is 20%. To find 3 additional promising therapists, you will probably have to talk to 10 more on the phone. That's a lot of phone calls - but you just leave the same message on each one's answering machine. Maybe you can record YOUR message on a tape and just play your tape to their answering machines!
In the 10 phone interviews, you find out if they have appointments available, if they are OK with supportive longterm therapy, what their theoretical orientation is, tell them that you don't like to be pushed, that you saw your previous therapist for 10 years, and that you are considering moving out of the area.
I'm hoping that you can (face to face) interview therapists who cover a range - i.e. I'd really like you to see a psychodynamic therapist, someone eclectic, I guess someone who does CBT (though I think that is less likely to be an ideal orientation for you), maybe someone humanistic.
You need to go through this process, Dinah.
You tend to see a small bump in the road ahead and decide that it isn't worth proceeding down that road. You wouldn't let the rest of us get away with that. It is like a door appears in front of you and you crumble into a pile on the floor. But you don't check to see if the door is unlocked - or even if the door is OPEN. You assume that since there is a door there that you are finished. You wouldn't let your son get away with that - if he was reading and didn't know a word, would you let him say "Well, I'm not going to try to read anymore. I'm sure I can find someone to read things to me as I grow up when I need to have something read."?
I know that you see yourself as powerless and helpless. That is part of the identity that you have (just like being depressed was part of the identity that I had). But you HAVE shown, particularly in the last month, that you are NOT powerless and helpless. Can you consider the possibility that you don't HAVE to be powerless and helpless? That there might be a different Dinah in there who could have even just a little power and strength? I know that is a terrifying thought. You don't have to agree that it is true - just consider the possibility that it might, in some small way, be POSSIBLE.
I love you, Dinah.
Falls.
Posted by Poet on October 8, 2005, at 17:32:11
In reply to t2 is toast, posted by Dinah on October 6, 2005, at 17:34:33
Hi Dinah,
People in the waiting room are receiving cancer treatments? No way in hell would I have stayed 30 seconds in there.
T shares a waiting room with other Ts and I can't stand it when somebody else is sitting there.
I can't say I blame you for making T2 toast. I can't blame you for not wanting to see another T either. I just hope that the meds work until if and when you are ready to try hunting for a T in Huntsville. I've never been there- it's Alabama right? I should have paid more attention in geography class...
Poet
Posted by alexandra_k on October 8, 2005, at 17:45:18
In reply to Re: t2 is toast » Dinah, posted by Poet on October 8, 2005, at 17:32:11
uh...
not that cancer is catchy, of course.
and then there is probably the point that they feel a lot worse having someone else watch them
than it feels to be watching them
or at least...
just as bad
Posted by Dinah on October 9, 2005, at 9:51:36
In reply to Re: t2 is toast » Dinah, posted by Poet on October 8, 2005, at 17:32:11
I'm not sure if we'll be moving or not. It probably depends on what my therapist does. And whether we could find suitable schooling elsewhere.
My husband could go either way, so my input is going to matter a lot.
Posted by Dinah on October 9, 2005, at 9:53:05
In reply to Re: t2 is toast » Dinah, posted by Annierose on October 8, 2005, at 6:21:29
:)
Yeah. But I guess if it had stayed the same, it wouldn't be as ideal in terms of job opportunities. So it's a double edged sword.
It's a nice city, and I wouldn't mind living there.
But I'm not in love anymore.
(I did find the area I fell in love with though.)
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