Psycho-Babble Politics Thread 1106285

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Re: Grace Slick sigismund

Posted by beckett2 on November 7, 2019, at 19:59:07

In reply to Grace Slick, posted by sigismund on November 5, 2019, at 2:01:29

End of November or October? Another poor scorpio? Likely a Sagittarius. She's legend.

I know you've seen this

https://external-preview.redd.it/rvFgdZFXs5ASZthtl6S9LllE2VoY66lUKpOBMjRnrYw.jpg?auto=webp&s=28a98647c59904995f7ec6dd5d46db3ace91db58

 

Re: Grace Slick

Posted by sigismund on November 10, 2019, at 16:24:05

In reply to Re: Grace Slick sigismund, posted by beckett2 on November 7, 2019, at 19:59:07

End of October.

She was talking somewhere about the lyrics, and said that she got them mixed up with a shopping list.

Maybe she'd been reading James Joyce and Frederick Nietzche, and had some boyfriends in mind.

Her father was a banker, right? The connections come easily to her.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9fwGYBGglA
Prescient, don't you think?

 

Thoughts and Prayers

Posted by sigismund on November 10, 2019, at 22:03:42

In reply to Re: Grace Slick, posted by sigismund on November 10, 2019, at 16:24:05

There is a dog whistle for you. We don't normally say that sort of thing, especially if we are receiving coal money, or so I'd thought. Bernard Keane is centrist, but not bought and sold.

"If now isnt the 'right time' to 'talk about' climate change, when on earth is?"
BERNARD KEANE

Now is not the time to talk about the connection between climate change and the unprecedented bushfires that have taken lives and burnt out colossal swathes of NSW, said Scott Morrison and Gladys Berejiklian over the weekend. Morrison instead offered his thoughts and prayers to those affected.

Deputy Prime Minister Michael McCormack went further, calling any mention of climate change disgusting and the work of raving inner-city lunatics eager to prosecute an agenda.

Now is not the time. Thoughts and prayers. Accusation of running an agenda. If it all sounds familiar, its because theyre exactly the talking points used by Republicans in the wake of gun massacres in the US, designed to direct the anger about the wholly preventable and routine deaths of Americans away from the possibility of taking any action.

Climate denialism used to look like vaccine denialism the result of wilful stupidity, a willingness to resort to conspiracy theory and a conviction that youre smarter than both scientists and the sheeple who surround you.

But at a political level, climate denialism, like gun rights advocacy in the United States, isnt some psychological tic or eccentricity; it is bought and paid for by the fossil fuel industry lobbyists and donors who litter the donation returns of the Liberal and National parties.

And that denialism, and the soft corruption that funds it, has a growing body count. The victims of bushfires. The elderly who die during heatwaves. The premature deaths from smoke haze. Rural and regional Australians driven to suicide by drought and economic dislocation.

Its never time to talk about climate change for the Morrison government, even with some of the countrys biggest corporations screaming for some kind, any kind, of climate policy to provide investment certainty.

Yes, lets say it. These are preventable deaths, caused by fossil fuel industry-funded politicians here and overseas blocking climate action at every turn.

Whats particularly ironic is that the same set of politicians who deny climate change, or falsely insist its being addressed, are often the ones to be found hyping the threat of terrorism as the basis for spending billions of dollars on security theatre and systematically eroding civil liberties.

Climate change is causing far more deaths in Western countries than terrorism, much more economic damage. But those usually quick to accuse others of being soft on terrorism are themselves soft to the point of vacuum on a far more serious threat to the lives, health and prosperity of Australians.

Want to talk about politicians who ignore warnings about security threats? How many warnings have climate denialist politicians like Scott Morrison been given? Even the governments own 2016 Defence White Paper warned that climate change was a major challenge.

Instead of following NRA-style talking points, this is what Australian governments should be saying as natural disasters mount up from climate change. Its a pretty straightforward logic:

Australia is the developed economy most at risk from climate change, due to our geography and the nature of our economy
Australia thus desperately needs the world to move more rapidly to cap and begin reducing global emissions in order to keep temperature rises below 2 degrees (and hopefully 1.5 degrees) above pre-industrial levels
To do this, we need to show global leadership by moving to decarbonise an economy that is one of the developed worlds most carbon intensive. If we undertake a serious program to achieve that, we can then demand that other economies, and especially big ones like the US, China and India, do the same
It appears we cant stop serious impacts from existing temperature rises even if were successful at capping global emissions, so adaptation and resilience must be much more prominent in policymaking, across areas like drought relief, infrastructure funding and regional development
If theres no political will to achieve abatement, and enable mitigation using market mechanisms, then taxpayer funding will have to be used. Its less efficient, but the alternative of doing nothing, of staying paralysed, is not acceptable.
Anything short of this whether its Morrisons thoughts and prayers or McCormacks insults is recklessness of the same kind that would leave us unprotected against terrorists, only on a much vaster scale. And it is costing lives right now.

Not the right time? There was never a more important time to talk seriously about climate change. Each day of delay and denialism will cost more lives.

Its time that responsibility was sheeted home to those who have refused to take action.

 

The secret hand

Posted by sigismund on November 11, 2019, at 1:07:43

In reply to Thoughts and Prayers, posted by sigismund on November 10, 2019, at 22:03:42

The Greenies will be held to account for their role in these fires. As President Trump remarked after the fires at Pleasure, they will never allow the forests to be raked, or as here, burned back.

Their role in the something something something and you know the rest, deserving of what you have shown us how to deliver, will not pass without sanction.

Unless someone decent wins your election, in which case we shall change our principles.

But we gave you Rupert, right? Even though he will always be an Australian and given a state funeral here.

 

Re: The secret hand

Posted by sigismund on November 12, 2019, at 13:27:15

In reply to The secret hand, posted by sigismund on November 11, 2019, at 1:07:43

If the Greens can cause the fires why not (say) the Jews?

Maybe Australia does not wish for a more inclusive politics? Certainly Rupert doesn't. (Headline in The Australian....'The Greens Are Playing With Fire'. This reminds me of 'If The Jews should once again......'

We won't even able to do safe hazard reduction burns in the future if it becomes hotter and drier..

I'm waiting to hear that the Islamists did it.

 

Re: The secret hand sigismund

Posted by beckett2 on November 12, 2019, at 22:09:24

In reply to Re: The secret hand, posted by sigismund on November 12, 2019, at 13:27:15

> If the Greens can cause the fires why not (say) the Jews?
>
> Maybe Australia does not wish for a more inclusive politics? Certainly Rupert doesn't. (Headline in The Australian....'The Greens Are Playing With Fire'. This reminds me of 'If The Jews should once again......'
>
> We won't even able to do safe hazard reduction burns in the future if it becomes hotter and drier..
>
> I'm waiting to hear that the Islamists did it.
>
>

Are some saying the Greens are responsible, and if so, what is the argument?

We don't rake our forests, you know, nor do we allow enough logging. Because we're tree-huggers. If only we did A. B. would not happen. Not only does that give the hydrocarbon kings cover, implied is we still have control.

Oh yes. Thank your country for the gift of Murdoch that keeps on giving.

Are you guys doing alright in the midst of bushfires?

 

Re: Thoughts and Prayers sigismund

Posted by beckett2 on November 12, 2019, at 22:28:58

In reply to Thoughts and Prayers, posted by sigismund on November 10, 2019, at 22:03:42

> There is a dog whistle for you. We don't normally say that sort of thing, especially if we are receiving coal money, or so I'd thought. Bernard Keane is centrist, but not bought and sold.
>
> "If now isnt the 'right time' to 'talk about' climate change, when on earth is?"
> BERNARD KEANE
>
> Now is not the time to talk about the connection between climate change and the unprecedented bushfires that have taken lives and burnt out colossal swathes of NSW, said Scott Morrison and Gladys Berejiklian over the weekend. Morrison instead offered his thoughts and prayers to those affected.
>
> Deputy Prime Minister Michael McCormack went further, calling any mention of climate change disgusting and the work of raving inner-city lunatics eager to prosecute an agenda.
>
> Now is not the time. Thoughts and prayers. Accusation of running an agenda. If it all sounds familiar, its because theyre exactly the talking points used by Republicans in the wake of gun massacres in the US, designed to direct the anger about the wholly preventable and routine deaths of Americans away from the possibility of taking any action.
>
> Climate denialism used to look like vaccine denialism the result of wilful stupidity, a willingness to resort to conspiracy theory and a conviction that youre smarter than both scientists and the sheeple who surround you.
>
> But at a political level, climate denialism, like gun rights advocacy in the United States, isnt some psychological tic or eccentricity; it is bought and paid for by the fossil fuel industry lobbyists and donors who litter the donation returns of the Liberal and National parties.
>
> And that denialism, and the soft corruption that funds it, has a growing body count. The victims of bushfires. The elderly who die during heatwaves. The premature deaths from smoke haze. Rural and regional Australians driven to suicide by drought and economic dislocation.
>
> Its never time to talk about climate change for the Morrison government, even with some of the countrys biggest corporations screaming for some kind, any kind, of climate policy to provide investment certainty.
>
> Yes, lets say it. These are preventable deaths, caused by fossil fuel industry-funded politicians here and overseas blocking climate action at every turn.
>
> Whats particularly ironic is that the same set of politicians who deny climate change, or falsely insist its being addressed, are often the ones to be found hyping the threat of terrorism as the basis for spending billions of dollars on security theatre and systematically eroding civil liberties.
>
> Climate change is causing far more deaths in Western countries than terrorism, much more economic damage. But those usually quick to accuse others of being soft on terrorism are themselves soft to the point of vacuum on a far more serious threat to the lives, health and prosperity of Australians.
>
> Want to talk about politicians who ignore warnings about security threats? How many warnings have climate denialist politicians like Scott Morrison been given? Even the governments own 2016 Defence White Paper warned that climate change was a major challenge.
>
> Instead of following NRA-style talking points, this is what Australian governments should be saying as natural disasters mount up from climate change. Its a pretty straightforward logic:
>
> Australia is the developed economy most at risk from climate change, due to our geography and the nature of our economy
> Australia thus desperately needs the world to move more rapidly to cap and begin reducing global emissions in order to keep temperature rises below 2 degrees (and hopefully 1.5 degrees) above pre-industrial levels
> To do this, we need to show global leadership by moving to decarbonise an economy that is one of the developed worlds most carbon intensive. If we undertake a serious program to achieve that, we can then demand that other economies, and especially big ones like the US, China and India, do the same
> It appears we cant stop serious impacts from existing temperature rises even if were successful at capping global emissions, so adaptation and resilience must be much more prominent in policymaking, across areas like drought relief, infrastructure funding and regional development
> If theres no political will to achieve abatement, and enable mitigation using market mechanisms, then taxpayer funding will have to be used. Its less efficient, but the alternative of doing nothing, of staying paralysed, is not acceptable.
> Anything short of this whether its Morrisons thoughts and prayers or McCormacks insults is recklessness of the same kind that would leave us unprotected against terrorists, only on a much vaster scale. And it is costing lives right now.
>
> Not the right time? There was never a more important time to talk seriously about climate change. Each day of delay and denialism will cost more lives.
>
> Its time that responsibility was sheeted home to those who have refused to take action.
>
>


The same playbook here. Trump is boon for Morrison and the like. (Morrison agreed to throw one of Australia's diplomats under the bus and whatever need be to aid Barr's investigation of the investigation.)

Afterwards, Morrison received his WH invitation.

There was a recent trade agreement signed over Australian coal, wasn't there? I read something in the Guardian this month although can't recall what. If Australia went green, I'd feel heartened. The other day I read that your country achieved 50% renewable electricity for a day. Maybe a state here could do that, or a city, but the entire country onboard seems to much to ask. Or too much to imagine. The size and density of our country is unwieldy, and too many are either trump cultists or hydrocarbon enriched.

I'm feeling trump has a good chance of being elected. How could I forgive my fellow citizens?

Susan Rice, national security advisor to Obama, whatever one thinks of her, states that climate change is the number one security threat. She also believes white extremists are more dangerous and numerous than commonly seen. There was something about this near you, right? Recruitment of white guys under the guise of an exercise club? I might be misremembering this from the Guardian. I guess Australia is only 20 years behind :(

Btw, southern Australia is the rain starved area? This is counterintuitive to me, at least, being closer to the pole. But I do not understand weather.

 

Re: Thoughts and Prayers

Posted by sigismund on November 14, 2019, at 12:02:56

In reply to Re: Thoughts and Prayers sigismund, posted by beckett2 on November 12, 2019, at 22:28:58

They say that the inland of Australia in the south-eastern part (by which I don't mean the coast, but the Murray Darling basin) will be the hardest hit.

This article is good. (Where does a name like Binoy Karpmark come from?) It does not emphasise enough perhaps our historical contempt for the land. But then look at how it is with you. A more majestic land (once), equally stolen, that didn't save it from our sort. (We don't have Thanksgiving.) I have lived close to or in the bush most of my life and love it, especially now I see it differently.

And for Scomo. Thoughts and Prayers? That is an NRA talking point. Unlikely to catch on (I hope).

https://www.counterpunch.org/2019/11/14/incinerating-logic-bush-fires-and-climate-change/

 

Paul Edwards

Posted by sigismund on November 14, 2019, at 13:05:40

In reply to Re: Thoughts and Prayers, posted by sigismund on November 14, 2019, at 12:02:56

is apparently a film maker in Montana. I have never read anything of his I didn't like.

https://www.counterpunch.org/2019/11/14/peak-hubris/

 

Peak Hubris Re: Paul Edwards sigismund

Posted by beckett2 on November 14, 2019, at 16:54:20

In reply to Paul Edwards, posted by sigismund on November 14, 2019, at 13:05:40

> is apparently a film maker in Montana. I have never read anything of his I didn't like.
>
> https://www.counterpunch.org/2019/11/14/peak-hubris/

I received considerable pushback for explaining why trump was in the WH. America is a narcissistic country, America first, etc etc, and trump is narcissism incarnate. Now that was going too far!

 

Re: Thoughts and Prayers sigismund

Posted by beckett2 on November 14, 2019, at 16:59:16

In reply to Re: Thoughts and Prayers, posted by sigismund on November 14, 2019, at 12:02:56

> They say that the inland of Australia in the south-eastern part (by which I don't mean the coast, but the Murray Darling basin) will be the hardest hit.
>
> This article is good. (Where does a name like Binoy Karpmark come from?) It does not emphasise enough perhaps our historical contempt for the land. But then look at how it is with you. A more majestic land (once), equally stolen, that didn't save it from our sort. (We don't have Thanksgiving.) I have lived close to or in the bush most of my life and love it, especially now I see it differently.
>
> And for Scomo. Thoughts and Prayers? That is an NRA talking point. Unlikely to catch on (I hope).
>
> https://www.counterpunch.org/2019/11/14/incinerating-logic-bush-fires-and-climate-change/

You likely realize I adore Australia, and consider its good fortune to be on the outside of the heavy-hitters. However, I have always puzzled over the coal issue, (although I shouldn't really), because I think there is more people there for renewables than against. Then there was Scomo. As if we all weren't in enough trouble.

 

Re: Thoughts and Prayers beckett2

Posted by beckett2 on November 14, 2019, at 17:08:39

In reply to Re: Thoughts and Prayers sigismund, posted by beckett2 on November 14, 2019, at 16:59:16

> > They say that the inland of Australia in the south-eastern part (by which I don't mean the coast, but the Murray Darling basin) will be the hardest hit.
> >
> > This article is good. (Where does a name like Binoy Karpmark come from?) It does not emphasise enough perhaps our historical contempt for the land. But then look at how it is with you. A more majestic land (once), equally stolen, that didn't save it from our sort. (We don't have Thanksgiving.) I have lived close to or in the bush most of my life and love it, especially now I see it differently.
> >
> > And for Scomo. Thoughts and Prayers? That is an NRA talking point. Unlikely to catch on (I hope).
> >
> > https://www.counterpunch.org/2019/11/14/incinerating-logic-bush-fires-and-climate-change/
>
> You likely realize I adore Australia, and consider its good fortune to be on the outside of the heavy-hitters. However, I have always puzzled over the coal issue, (although I shouldn't really), because I think there is more people there for renewables than against. Then there was Scomo. As if we all weren't in enough trouble.

Honestly, it is not 'the people' but the lesser, monied interests, if your country is like ours. Our populace is more left-leaning than elections account for, our left suppression here by gerrymandering for example, and money as free speech, a likely offshoot of corporations as people.

The 'liberal' billionaire outcry over Warren taxing the ultra rich. 'That is too much!, a new one decries daily. She or Sanders won't make it. To prove it, more moderate democrats (capitalists) are persuaded to join a crowded primary race. Maybe, at least, we'll be spared a dotard Biden.

 

Re: Thoughts and Prayers beckett2

Posted by beckett2 on November 14, 2019, at 17:09:22

In reply to Re: Thoughts and Prayers beckett2, posted by beckett2 on November 14, 2019, at 17:08:39

My despair would only deepen under a Biden presidency.

 

Re: Thoughts and Prayers

Posted by sigismund on November 14, 2019, at 22:32:13

In reply to Re: Thoughts and Prayers beckett2, posted by beckett2 on November 14, 2019, at 17:08:39

Typical Murdoch to call progressive taxation class war. But EW wants a wealth tax, no? an actual tax on PROPERTY. Now we're talking. They are not used to paying any tax.

Here is something on economics which I managed to read and understand, it is so well written....

https://www.nybooks.com/articles/2019/12/05/against-economics/

 

Re: Thoughts and Prayers

Posted by sigismund on November 14, 2019, at 22:37:52

In reply to Re: Thoughts and Prayers beckett2, posted by beckett2 on November 14, 2019, at 17:09:22

Tulsi Gabbard and Jill Stein are Russian assets.

I can wake in the middle of the night, think about that and be amazed.

Is there more than meets the eye, or less? I suppose HRC meant it?

 

Re: Thoughts and Prayers sigismund

Posted by beckett2 on November 15, 2019, at 20:55:36

In reply to Re: Thoughts and Prayers, posted by sigismund on November 14, 2019, at 22:37:52

> Tulsi Gabbard and Jill Stein are Russian assets.
>
> I can wake in the middle of the night, think about that and be amazed.
>
> Is there more than meets the eye, or less? I suppose HRC meant it?

I find it complicated. Apparently, afterwards, news agencies corrected the reporting something about HRC referred to republicans (not Russians) grooming a third party candidate, implying but not naming Gabbard. I do think there's more than meets the eye, but I don't think HRC is the one to be telling the story, and I wish she'd absent herself from the current race. Jill Stein was a disappointment, and I was a Green Party member. RT favored both of them. I don't know why though. So it's curious. There is a balance I've cultivated between journalists who posit there is no there there and those who are Russia hysterics.

Today trump pardoned three war criminals convicted in military courts and restored their ranks. I feel sick to my stomach thinking about this. I imagine the deeds must be especially egregious when your platoon turns you in for a particular killing. This stuff and all the unqualified judges positioned in lifetime seats. Erode the morals of the military, erode the competency and morals of the courts....

 

Re: Thoughts and Prayers

Posted by sigismund on November 17, 2019, at 17:33:44

In reply to Re: Thoughts and Prayers sigismund, posted by beckett2 on November 15, 2019, at 20:55:36

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyAij4uvYaA

More nihilism and cynicism then hypocrisy.

 

Re: Thoughts and Prayers sigismund

Posted by beckett2 on November 17, 2019, at 23:50:46

In reply to Re: Thoughts and Prayers, posted by sigismund on November 17, 2019, at 17:33:44

I was only able to watch part, which is saying something about my emotional state (being a four minute video). Feeling anxious and very down.

 

I am always in a good mood

Posted by beckett2 on November 20, 2019, at 19:36:50

In reply to Re: Thoughts and Prayers, posted by sigismund on November 17, 2019, at 17:33:44

This made me laugh. After days of testimonies.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6x5iZQBTxg

 

Re: I am always in a good mood

Posted by sigismund on November 20, 2019, at 23:10:25

In reply to I am always in a good mood, posted by beckett2 on November 20, 2019, at 19:36:50

Therefore you may or may not like this.

About the AGM for News Ltd.

https://www.crikey.com.au/2019/11/21/rupert-murdoch-news-corp-agm-2019-climate-change/?utm_campaign=Daily&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&ins=QThSbVREeWVUTkRsYjZ1eU1jM3Y0QT09

 

Re: I am always in a good mood

Posted by sigismund on November 21, 2019, at 0:40:34

In reply to Re: I am always in a good mood, posted by sigismund on November 20, 2019, at 23:10:25

Paywalled?

Some people like Newscorp I believe, giving freedom a voice from the bounds of political correctness.

 

Re: I am always in a good mood

Posted by sigismund on November 21, 2019, at 1:29:07

In reply to Re: I am always in a good mood, posted by sigismund on November 21, 2019, at 0:40:34

The 11,000 climate scientists and 'their world of pain and suffering' passed by, because this is a cult (isn't it?), invincibly resistant to evidence.

So it may be like Exodus, 'And God hardened pharaoh's heart'. But THIS time there's no one left to blame (How can I be so sure?) , no more Canaanite lands with the city on the hill. This time is different because we have to live with it. On that basis we should expect a war, but it won't work.

Faith is not strategy. They hate Putin and Xi because they can string together a strategic sentence.

 

Re: I am always in a good mood sigismund

Posted by beckett2 on November 21, 2019, at 2:30:41

In reply to Re: I am always in a good mood, posted by sigismund on November 21, 2019, at 1:29:07

> The 11,000 climate scientists and 'their world of pain and suffering' passed by, because this is a cult (isn't it?), invincibly resistant to evidence.
>
> So it may be like Exodus, 'And God hardened pharaoh's heart'. But THIS time there's no one left to blame (How can I be so sure?) , no more Canaanite lands with the city on the hill. This time is different because we have to live with it. On that basis we should expect a war, but it won't work.
>
> Faith is not strategy. They hate Putin and Xi because they can string together a strategic sentence.
>

Yes, we've certainly lost the plot here. I suppose people are frightened by the strategies. There is, at least to my mind, reason to fear a government similar to Xi's.

Recently I've seen a backlash to climate change strategy from the general public. Smoke a mirrors you mentioned at some point. For example, the impeachment hearings here. There is always a clerk scrolling through a phone in the background. The breaking Fox or CNN or WaPo headlines then become part of the discussion or become the terms of the argument.

I agree. Climate naysayers here now call the 'belief' in climate emergency a cult. There must be a term for flipping the truth on an opponent (unfortunately seen as an adversary). America is freedom of choice and expression. You can pick you facts.

Sanders' comments on climate emergency tonight were particularly strong. I looked for a shorter clip, but Sanders starts shortly after 3:30 or so.

Yes, Crikey has a paywall. I wasn't able to read the other link you posted--but you can cut and paste if you have the will.

Btw, is all of Australia dry? I don't understand the climate 'debate' in your country-- and what Murdoch is doing in it if I have that right. The young man, the green in your clip above, it was heartbreaking. The comment section was full of poison. Exemplar of the backlash :(

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTZK7Da-bkU

 

Re: I am always in a good mood

Posted by sigismund on November 21, 2019, at 13:10:10

In reply to Re: I am always in a good mood sigismund, posted by beckett2 on November 21, 2019, at 2:30:41

>I don't understand the climate 'debate' in your country

Well, that is all very amusing, and I don't either. It's not a debate around here, that's for sure. (There's some old farmers who will have their own ways of putting things. What's that? Debate?) I cannot make head or f*ck*ng tail of it.

The mining money is filtered through a series of think tanks to which up and coming people......money, employment. People who do not really need the money........

Time for coffee.

 

Re: I am always in a good mood sigismund

Posted by Beckett2 on November 21, 2019, at 16:11:20

In reply to Re: I am always in a good mood, posted by sigismund on November 21, 2019, at 13:10:10

> Time for coffee.

Good idea!


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