Psycho-Babble Politics Thread 1105306

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Re: Those 4

Posted by sigismund on July 18, 2019, at 18:38:34

In reply to Re: Those 4, posted by alexandra_k on July 18, 2019, at 17:24:36

Bubble tea? Better than Starbucks? (Was Starbuck a character in Moby Dick? Tried to read it and couldn't.)

NZ has a different mix and is better for me, just less painful.

Covered well enough here.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5_F9X04Bq8

 

Re: Those 4

Posted by alexandra_k on July 19, 2019, at 7:26:43

In reply to Re: Those 4, posted by sigismund on July 18, 2019, at 18:10:49

I hadn't heard the Columbus report. I find it sad. The approach to people. The approach to trade.

On Bubble Tea:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-dRmVG7VPA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXTeu4mD5H0

I haven't tried it. I'm sure it's good. I am used to thinking of tea as a poor choice because of the opportunity cost of forgoing coffee. But at $8 the way to think of it as less as a coffee substitute and more of a meal substitute instead of bowl of cereal, or something.

A mirror... Yeah...

You don't think that you feel more comfortable around people who are like you, in some way? I don't mean the same skin color as you, necessarily...

 

Re: Those 4

Posted by sigismund on July 19, 2019, at 19:31:51

In reply to Re: Those 4, posted by alexandra_k on July 19, 2019, at 7:26:43

>You don't think that you feel more comfortable around people who are like you, in some way? I don't mean the same skin color as you, necessarily...

In some ways, of course. I have never understood racism EXCEPT with respect to the aborigines. Which is the projection of our refusal to acknowledge wrong doing by us, so it is easier to hate / fear them.

 

Re: Those 4

Posted by sigismund on July 19, 2019, at 19:39:07

In reply to Re: Those 4, posted by sigismund on July 19, 2019, at 19:31:51

You know how there is this current trend to say 'We won, you lost, get over it.'

Now to whom can we say that, and to whom can we not?

Even that question is provocative.

I think one of them will be assassinated. But they know about this world and they do not care.

 

Re: Those 4

Posted by alexandra_k on July 21, 2019, at 4:26:13

In reply to Re: Those 4, posted by sigismund on July 19, 2019, at 19:39:07

yeah...

i have been thinking...

psychoanalysis (in america) arose primarily (i believe though could be wrong) by Jewish people largely for Jewish people. Part of a culture of trauma where that trauma was legitimated (somehow) by the Nuerenbueg trails...

When I was in Otago there was an academic there, in the Centre for Bioethics who was working on atrocities commiteed by the Japanese against the Chinese in WWII. He had this really nice message about 'our common humanity'. I don't think he got much ''screen time'' because his English did not ever sound particularly good. Thick accent etc.

But I would go to the gym and see BBC headlines on 'Hong Kong protesting expediation policy' and I got curious about what it meant...

And the Falun Gong protests...

And...

Well...

Where are the organs coming from in China. Such that a person can schedule their surgery (for whatever dollar amount)?

And (don't get me wrong) I imagine much of the data to the effect that 'sure, we have performed millions of surgery's like those' is hyperbole. But I also imagine that it is hard for the Chinese Government to come to terms with the world valuing the lives of the Chinese people when the World did not hold the Japanese to account for many of the atrocities that were committed against the Chinese in WWII.

Of course bombing the f*ck out of the Japanese sucks pretty bad for the Japanese...

And American was concerned to repair for that...

But perhaps America (despite good intent) got in the way of Japan being called into account by China and whoever else was victim to their expansionism.

SO presently we have a situation where China is saying 'well, f*ck, the world didn't seem to mind before when we suffered and so now it is our turn'...

With respect to Tibet and Hong Kong and Taiwan...

And whoever else they can get away with...

I don't know.

It is hard. This idea of individuals vs people. Groups vs people. But it does make sense to me.

Where did the organs come from? Mostly false reports about what was done (a 'Hauser' -- I like to call it). But also... Yeah...

I think Australia is wrong to institute a 'racist' response of 'we will not train Chinese Transplant Surgeons'. They should be saying 'we will not train ANY surgeons who refuse to / are incompetent to obey rule of law where rule of law is about just distribution of costs and benefits (best we can genuinely figure) for society as a whole).

 

Re: Those 4

Posted by alexandra_k on July 21, 2019, at 4:37:35

In reply to Re: Those 4, posted by alexandra_k on July 21, 2019, at 4:26:13

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Hauser

Because google will not be your friend in parsing that.

You want to send your kids to Harvard becaues Harvard has rule of law, more than other places.

Good kids are more likely to flourish at Harvard.

I have been watching DragonRoPa...

There is fear in much of the world that one needs to commit atrocities to be accepted (in some way) by those in command.

There is genuine fear.

There is little to no rule of law.

That is what Hong Kong stands for, for the Chinese.

Salvation...

 

Re: Those 4

Posted by alexandra_k on July 21, 2019, at 5:12:13

In reply to Re: Those 4, posted by alexandra_k on July 21, 2019, at 4:37:35

the 'fear of invisible tretchary' undermines collaboration / co-operativity.

_________

grow carrots.
you can choose: pay people labor wages to hand-weed your carrots.
or, pay people to mask up to poison spray.

the first option results in higher-quality carrots (organic) and associated higher labor costs involved in hand-weeding.

The second option you could try and f*ck people for labor costs... or you could give them nasty work (poison spraying) where the latter results in inferior product (poison sprayed produce)...

only government legislation will make viable the 'high road' by allowing people to choose to spend their money supporting viable and nice ways of life for others in their community.

i think about the 'free range' chickens kept 1,500 or 2,500 to a flock in i don't even know what cubit meter of space.

oh for my very own cage box please.

governments are nasty nasty nasty nasty nasty criminaal -- if they think they can get away with it.

 

Re: Those 4

Posted by sigismund on July 24, 2019, at 0:34:30

In reply to Re: Those 4, posted by alexandra_k on July 21, 2019, at 4:26:13

>But I also imagine that it is hard for the Chinese Government to come to terms with the world valuing the lives of the Chinese people when the World did not hold the Japanese to account for many of the atrocities that were committed against the Chinese in WWII.

Let's say for the sake of argument that 60% of everyone has to die before the end of the century to get the population down. Who whom? (Did Lenin say that?) None of us matter or not very many. Our cynical leaders militarise the borders while denying the problem. There will be all these sick addicted broken poor people stumbling around in the ruins left by the plunder of capital. I hope to God they go to the moon.

The casualties in the east were of the same scale as those of the west. I guess that is around 60M in total. Lessons were learned (but not in Japan so much), and now are almost forgotten. This is Dwight Eisenhower in 1953.....

Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed.
This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children. The cost of one modern heavy bomber is this: a modern brick school in more than 30 cities. It is two electric power plants, each serving a town of 60,000 population. It is two fine, fully equipped hospitals. It is some fifty miles of concrete pavement. We pay for a single fighter with a half-million bushels of wheat. We pay for a single destroyer with new homes that could have housed more than 8,000 people. . . . This is not a way of life at all, in any true sense. Under the cloud of threatening war, it is humanity hanging from a cross of iron.[1][5]

What are we supposed to make of that when we look around us now? And the corporate Democrats are no better than Trump. Missiles are fired illegally, people die, and he becomes president for everyone. The beauty of our weapons. Bit of a death wish going on? I feel it myself: just get it over with.

 

Re: Those 4

Posted by sigismund on July 24, 2019, at 14:03:54

In reply to Re: Those 4, posted by sigismund on July 24, 2019, at 0:34:30

Well, I'm not alone. From today's comments in the Guardian.....

"Is this the Boris bounce everybody promised ?"

Well, it's certainly the Crosby Textor® dead cat bounce, install Boris Piccaninny Watermelon Letterbox Cake Bumboys Vampires Haircut Inconclusive-Cocaine-Event Wall-Spaffer Spunk-Burster F*ck-Business F*ck-The-Families Get-Off-My-F*ck*ng-Laptop Turds Johnson (thank you Stewart Lee) as PM and whilst we are all horrified, not notice that we are all being done comprehensively up the Khyber, lube-free with a razor wire wrapped Besser brick ...

iainharry NucMed 11h ago

Could also add narcissism and something about domesticity into that excellent description

 

Re: Those 4

Posted by alexandra_k on July 24, 2019, at 23:25:57

In reply to Re: Those 4, posted by sigismund on July 24, 2019, at 0:34:30

> Let's say for the sake of argument that 60% of everyone has to die before the end of the century to get the population down...

Yeah. I thought it was common knowledge / commonly accepted that the global population has exceeded carrying capacity. More recently I learn that people are rather obsessed with representation to the point of focusing on proportionality. So, for instance, I think part of the focus on our having Maaori and Pacific Islanders be encouraged to breed as quickly and prolifically as possible is our desire to have them retained at around 20 per cent (or whatever) of the population of NZ in the face of immigration.

So... The statistic in the newspaper yesterday was that 1 in 10 children don't have their own bed to sleep in.

It's 'in the name of culture' but it's been what's prevented the culture and the people from developing. It isn't part of Maaori culture. It is killing Maaori culture. Nobody wants to live, like that.

> This is Dwight Eisenhower in 1953.....

> Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed.
> This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children. The cost of one modern heavy bomber is this: a modern brick school in more than 30 cities. It is two electric power plants, each serving a town of 60,000 population. It is two fine, fully equipped hospitals. It is some fifty miles of concrete pavement. We pay for a single fighter with a half-million bushels of wheat. We pay for a single destroyer with new homes that could have housed more than 8,000 people. . . . This is not a way of life at all, in any true sense. Under the cloud of threatening war, it is humanity hanging from a cross of iron.[1][5]

It is very sad.

It is very very sad, indeed.

I wish they would let the people go.

But go where? Where will the people go. There are too many bullies in the world making their way take take take take taking other peoples stuff. Doing what they can to prevent others... People don't want poor people having schools. In these parts... We are keen on the whole aspergilloma... Aspergillus growing in your TB holes... We are keen on the whole surfactant for premature babies... We are very very very keen on the longitudinal effects of oxygen deprivation for peoples conceived in alcohol...

Our governments likes to rule the people thus and so...

 

Re: Those 4

Posted by alexandra_k on July 24, 2019, at 23:39:45

In reply to Re: Those 4, posted by alexandra_k on July 24, 2019, at 23:25:57

https://teara.govt.nz/en/photograph/26441/barriers-on-grafton-bridge

So this is a bridge by a hospital. They need to put up suicide barriers on bridges close to hospitals to help prevent the psychiatric people from jumping off the nearest bridge when 'no speak English' psychiatrists discharge them into... Unpalatable... Situations.

Anyway, my point is that there are various perspex or glass ceiling barrier wall types of structures about the city. They are all covered with this... Black mould. I think that is what it is. Sometimes it makes... Florets? Splotches or mould growth. Othertimes it is just a layer... I suppose it is possible the black dusty stuff is pollution from traffic... But it seems to me to be worse at certain times of the year. Like now. When humidity is high and the temperature is cold. Cold damp. It is a nasty cold damp that gets into your bones. Aspergilloma... Can get into your bones, apparently. So I'm not just imagining it...

I think that is what it is.

It is a.. Damp vegetation rotting kind of a thing... The native bush.. If you walk through the domain. The park. Similar thing with rotting logs. A black damp layer of mold on everything.

It is the only thing that seems to grow, here.

 

Re: Those 4

Posted by sigismund on July 25, 2019, at 14:44:42

In reply to Re: Those 4, posted by alexandra_k on July 24, 2019, at 23:39:45

They could have said if they respected us with the truth......

'Yeah, sure, the world population needs to be cut by 80%. The poor and the coloured need to die, we need to dig this sh*t up before it becomes a stranded asset. Later we will do the obvious, including fortifying the borders. You will be safe enough.'

The lies are so offensive. Now I see that the sh*t hole countries are sending all the goods to be recycled back. And recycling is almost nothing. Clean public drinking water and good public transport (Japan) would actually do something, rather than shipping it to China and back again.

Nihilism + cynicism + Christian fascist racism.

 

Re: Those 4

Posted by beckett2 on July 25, 2019, at 20:29:33

In reply to Re: Those 4, posted by sigismund on July 25, 2019, at 14:44:42

> They could have said if they respected us with the truth......
>
> 'Yeah, sure, the world population needs to be cut by 80%. The poor and the coloured need to die, we need to dig this sh*t up before it becomes a stranded asset. Later we will do the obvious, including fortifying the borders. You will be safe enough.'
>
> The lies are so offensive. Now I see that the sh*t hole countries are sending all the goods to be recycled back. And recycling is almost nothing. Clean public drinking water and good public transport (Japan) would actually do something, rather than shipping it to China and back again.
>
> Nihilism + cynicism + Christian fascist racism.


This makes trump a truthful president. If hes re elected, I will need to accept that well wear it.

Today the federal government restarted the death penalty. I wonder if Jeffery Epstein would be eligible. That is the only humor I can find in this dismal decision.


 

Re: Those 4

Posted by sigismund on July 26, 2019, at 13:04:55

In reply to Re: Those 4, posted by beckett2 on July 25, 2019, at 20:29:33

> I will need to accept that well wear it.

That is what I think about Scottie. After the third Liberal government and the economic downturn blaming Labor for the economy will wear a bit thin.

But there is some joy for Liberal voters. Income management for people on benefits with debit cards usable only at Coles and Woolworths gives satisfaction to the employed poor, petit bourgeois, who, in deference to 'wealth creation' begrudge social security and see no need for taxes on the wealthy.

The social inclusion of Peruvian Independence Day could be an example for our countries, if social inclusion is what is wanted.

 

Re: Those 4

Posted by sigismund on July 26, 2019, at 13:26:21

In reply to Re: Those 4, posted by sigismund on July 26, 2019, at 13:04:55

The work-for-the-dole scheme is designed to develop the skills of the unemployed, so it is asserted.

One participant made a full scale guillotine.

 

Re: Those 4 » sigismund

Posted by beckett2 on July 27, 2019, at 2:26:46

In reply to Re: Those 4, posted by sigismund on July 26, 2019, at 13:26:21

> The work-for-the-dole scheme is designed to develop the skills of the unemployed, so it is asserted.
>
> One participant made a full scale guillotine.

Id love to see the guillotine. Is there a picture.

 

Re: Those 4

Posted by beckett2 on July 27, 2019, at 2:30:08

In reply to Re: Those 4, posted by sigismund on July 26, 2019, at 13:04:55

This is America.

https://youtu.be/KVkwUU3TLUE

 

Re: Those 4

Posted by sigismund on July 27, 2019, at 7:26:58

In reply to Re: Those 4, posted by beckett2 on July 27, 2019, at 2:30:08

Tried and tested in Australia first, thanks to Rupert with 'turn back the boats'.

The Liberals claimed humanitarian motivation by preventing deaths at sea. This was not a complete lie, but cruelty was nevertheless the point. (I have not read the article in the Atlantic). There were complementary options for easing the problem recommended by a government enquiry, not implemented.

From Guatemala? Coup there. 1953? Honduras? (thanks Hilary and Barack). Nicaragua? (Thanks Ronnie) El Salvador? (Who did that?) My geography is gets rusty further down, history is bunk. Some feeling of culpability rejected for not fitting the desired set-image. This is like Snow White. Nothing can make the mirror tell us that we are sufficiently fair, and we cannot hide this evil from ourselves. Those whom we have attacked must shoulder the blame as well. The curious attractiveness of those from sh*t hole countries, like Joseph, Mary and Jesus.

 

Re: Those 4

Posted by sigismund on July 27, 2019, at 7:42:28

In reply to Re: Those 4, posted by sigismund on July 27, 2019, at 7:26:58

Who wants to look like Saturn devouring his children? It is becoming apt.

 

Modest Proposal from work for the dole

Posted by sigismund on July 27, 2019, at 7:56:52

In reply to Re: Those 4, posted by sigismund on July 27, 2019, at 7:42:28

https://www.facebook.com/occupycentrelink/photos/a.939559819448040/2867337250003611?type=3&sfns=mo

Not just for the unemployed either. The poor, the refugees we hate for shaming us......not so far away from 'useless eaters' (Adolf), those we hate for proving our envy.

The mobilisation of the petit bourgeoisie was basic to the coalition victory. People even turned up to Centrelink after the election asking for their franking credits.

 

Re: Modest Proposal from work for the dole

Posted by alexandra_k on July 27, 2019, at 20:41:51

In reply to Modest Proposal from work for the dole, posted by sigismund on July 27, 2019, at 7:56:52

I don't really know what the problem is...

I see lots of people who would very genuinely love to have some meaningful work. To produce / make something and to have a fair wage and to feel like they are part of makings good things and making things better.

There just doesn't seem to be any kind of work, like that.

So the kids are forced into tertiary education of some variety or other... Where any kind of productive research output is squashed by advisors or supervisors who think that research school is all about them keeping slaves for as long as they can get away with it...

Where the grades are... Rather randomly assigned. Where the competent kids are failed and the incompetent kids are passed...

Where frictional unemployment is 1 year... 2 years... Where you will be required to undergo testing which is designed to have you feel badly...

All designed to have you accept...

COnsiderably less than a fair wage. For a dead-end job. To constantly grease grovel and suck up to incompletent supervisors whose main aim in life is the micro-mismanagement of others which involves nobody producing or accomplishing anything... Not on their watch.

While they collect up all the resources for themselves and their cronies.

Survival of the other-focused bullies.. Taking all the stuff and preventing productivity.

Seems to be the kiwi way.

Work for the dole doesn't work here. Because nobody wants anybody to do any work. You are all supposed to stand in a circle facing inwards (to prevent being stabbed in the back). Warily scanning... Scanning... Scanning... For teh person in charge who will set you busy-work or emotionally respond to me thus and so busy-work on demand. It's all about making them feel... Important. Productive. Needed. While they take up all the money and refuse to allow...

People to focus on their own work.

Sigh.

Awful country run by awful people.

If there is different here...

Where did it go?

I am trying to remember where I left it...

 

Re: Modest Proposal from work for the dole

Posted by alexandra_k on July 28, 2019, at 15:25:22

In reply to Re: Modest Proposal from work for the dole, posted by alexandra_k on July 27, 2019, at 20:41:51

We have some public works about. There is this wall in my home town. A concrete retaining wall, I guess you call it. To hold the steep slope / to prevent landslide. Apparently it was built after the war. When the men came back from the war. To give them work to do. I don't think it was 'work for the dole' but it was a project the government decided to... Advance(?)... Which involved the government choosing to employ people with genuine jobs.

I thought that was what the government was for. One of the functions of government. To create jobs for the people. That was a way of it distributing the wealth that it has for the common good.

Things like public schools and social houses and police stations and fire stations and hospitals and the like... Roads and so on... The infrastructure for society. Libraries. Town halls. Community centres...

But these things don't get built anymore, seems to me.

Instead... We have a few people the government gives much money to and the government is unwilling to fund meaningful honest good jobs for the people. We don't have firemen as government jobs, here. THey are 'volunteers'. Nurses and teachers are not valued / respected / remunerated such that good people want to work in those fields. There isn't career advancement for good work...

This idea of 'work for the dole'... Is that just an idea of the government not paying people minimum wage for jobs created by the government?

Why cant' the government arrange for good honest jobs creating good honest things that are for the good of the people in the country... And maybe even tourist destinations for the people overseas?

WHy can't teh government do it's job to promote GDP?

I just don't understand the level of incompetence / ineptitude / corruption...

I don't understand it, at all.

 

Re: Those 4 » sigismund

Posted by beckett2 on July 28, 2019, at 20:20:33

In reply to Re: Those 4, posted by sigismund on July 27, 2019, at 7:26:58

> Tried and tested in Australia first, thanks to Rupert with 'turn back the boats'.
>
> The Liberals claimed humanitarian motivation by preventing deaths at sea. This was not a complete lie, but cruelty was nevertheless the point. (I have not read the article in the Atlantic). There were complementary options for easing the problem recommended by a government enquiry, not implemented.
>
> From Guatemala? Coup there. 1953? Honduras? (thanks Hilary and Barack). Nicaragua? (Thanks Ronnie) El Salvador? (Who did that?) My geography is gets rusty further down, history is bunk. Some feeling of culpability rejected for not fitting the desired set-image. This is like Snow White. Nothing can make the mirror tell us that we are sufficiently fair, and we cannot hide this evil from ourselves. Those whom we have attacked must shoulder the blame as well. The curious attractiveness of those from sh*t hole countries, like Joseph, Mary and Jesus.

I think El Salvador was Bush senior

 

Re: Modest Proposal from work for the dole

Posted by beckett2 on July 28, 2019, at 20:24:05

In reply to Re: Modest Proposal from work for the dole, posted by alexandra_k on July 28, 2019, at 15:25:22

NZ doesnt have paid firefighters at all? Are there forest fires there?

>We have some public works about. There is this wall in my home town. A concrete retaining wall, I guess you call it. To hold the steep slope / to prevent landslide. Apparently it was built after the war. When the men came back from the war. To give them work to do. I don't think it was 'work for the dole' but it was a project the government decided to... Advance(?)... Which involved the government choosing to employ people with genuine jobs.
>
> I thought that was what the government was for. One of the functions of government. To create jobs for the people. That was a way of it distributing the wealth that it has for the common good.
>
> Things like public schools and social houses and police stations and fire stations and hospitals and the like... Roads and so on... The infrastructure for society. Libraries. Town halls. Community centres...
>
> But these things don't get built anymore, seems to me.
>
> Instead... We have a few people the government gives much money to and the government is unwilling to fund meaningful honest good jobs for the people. We don't have firemen as government jobs, here. THey are 'volunteers'. Nurses and teachers are not valued / respected / remunerated such that good people want to work in those fields. There isn't career advancement for good work...
>
> This idea of 'work for the dole'... Is that just an idea of the government not paying people minimum wage for jobs created by the government?
>
> Why cant' the government arrange for good honest jobs creating good honest things that are for the good of the people in the country... And maybe even tourist destinations for the people overseas?
>
> WHy can't teh government do it's job to promote GDP?
>
> I just don't understand the level of incompetence / ineptitude / corruption...
>
> I don't understand it, at all.

 

Re: Modest Proposal from work for the dole

Posted by sigismund on July 29, 2019, at 6:15:44

In reply to Re: Modest Proposal from work for the dole, posted by beckett2 on July 28, 2019, at 20:24:05

Another work for the dole lot made a gallows.

Is this what can be called a meme?


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