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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by foglady on August 27, 2007, at 22:32:59
Hello everyone,
After trying a bunch of things, I came across a book about St John's Word - an old book, from the early 1990s - and it said the dosage that had been most effective in studies was 300mg, 3x/day. I have been trying that for 2 weeks, and the results are nothing short of great. Without the dips and regressions that I've had with fish oil, 5-htp, and other things that I've tried before, I feel less social phobia, less depression, more motivation - all the things that I usually only get from a serious lack of sleep. Then I read in an article online (hmm, maybe here?) that since the early 1990s more research has shown that a higher does - roughly double that recommended in the 1990s - is most effective. I tried to find some confirmation in other articles on the 'net but the information out there is all over the place. So, now I have 3 questions:
1. Since St John's is known as a depression drug, if it's working for me, does that mean I really have depression? (I've never been diagnosed.)
2. Should it be 900mg a day, or 1800mg a day?
3. Will this wear off?
Thanks all,
foglady aka fogmama
Posted by Netch on August 28, 2007, at 4:48:07
In reply to St Johns Wort - dosage, posted by foglady on August 27, 2007, at 22:32:59
> Hello everyone,
>
> After trying a bunch of things, I came across a book about St John's Word - an old book, from the early 1990s - and it said the dosage that had been most effective in studies was 300mg, 3x/day. I have been trying that for 2 weeks, and the results are nothing short of great. Without the dips and regressions that I've had with fish oil, 5-htp, and other things that I've tried before, I feel less social phobia, less depression, more motivation - all the things that I usually only get from a serious lack of sleep. Then I read in an article online (hmm, maybe here?) that since the early 1990s more research has shown that a higher does - roughly double that recommended in the 1990s - is most effective. I tried to find some confirmation in other articles on the 'net but the information out there is all over the place. So, now I have 3 questions:
>
> 1. Since St John's is known as a depression drug, if it's working for me, does that mean I really have depression? (I've never been diagnosed.)
>There might be alternative diagnosis like bipolar and mixed state
> 2. Should it be 900mg a day, or 1800mg a day?
>I didn't tolerate more than 600 mg. Too much caused fatigue and distorted sense of smell.
The most important is to buy a standardized 0.3% hypercin or 5-6% hyperforin extract.> 3. Will this wear off?
>For me it did, after three years.
I also had problems with racing thoughts and agitation since I'm mixed state.> Thanks all,
> foglady aka fogmama
Posted by foglady on August 28, 2007, at 7:02:53
In reply to Re: St Johns Wort - dosage, posted by Netch on August 28, 2007, at 4:48:07
Thanks Netch. The closest thing I have to a diagnosis (from a reader on another board!) is "double depression". Is that the same as "mixed state"? Appreciate the info! fogmama
Posted by Netch on August 28, 2007, at 8:32:07
In reply to Re: St Johns Wort - dosage, posted by foglady on August 28, 2007, at 7:02:53
> Thanks Netch. The closest thing I have to a diagnosis (from a reader on another board!) is "double depression". Is that the same as "mixed state"? Appreciate the info! fogmama
It's also called agitated depression.
"condition during which symptoms of mania and depression occur simultaneously (e.g., agitation, anxiety, fatigue, guilt, impulsiveness, irritability, morbid and/or suicidal ideation, panic, paranoia, pressured speech and rage). Typical examples include tearfulness during a manic episode or racing thoughts during a depressive episode."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agitated_depression
Netch
Posted by linkadge on August 28, 2007, at 16:36:25
In reply to Re: St Johns Wort - dosage » foglady, posted by Netch on August 28, 2007, at 8:32:07
Agitated depression can respond nicely to a TCA antidepressant, such as doxapin, amitryptaline, imipramine etc.
The explosion of "bipolar disorder" IMHO, is a responce to the relatively poor efficacy of SSRI's for highly agitated depression.
The SSRI's can cause agitation in people who had no agitation, and are sometimes prescribed with benzo's for that reason.
I don't know the profile of SJW in agitated depression. It did kind of make me agitated for a while taking it, but that did calm down a bit.
I had taken it without loss of effect for a year or two.
Linkadge
Posted by Larry Hoover on August 29, 2007, at 18:53:16
In reply to St Johns Wort - dosage, posted by foglady on August 27, 2007, at 22:32:59
> Hello everyone,
>
> After trying a bunch of things, I came across a book about St John's Word - an old book, from the early 1990s - and it said the dosage that had been most effective in studies was 300mg, 3x/day. I have been trying that for 2 weeks, and the results are nothing short of great. Without the dips and regressions that I've had with fish oil, 5-htp, and other things that I've tried before, I feel less social phobia, less depression, more motivation - all the things that I usually only get from a serious lack of sleep. Then I read in an article online (hmm, maybe here?) that since the early 1990s more research has shown that a higher does - roughly double that recommended in the 1990s - is most effective. I tried to find some confirmation in other articles on the 'net but the information out there is all over the place. So, now I have 3 questions:
>
> 1. Since St John's is known as a depression drug, if it's working for me, does that mean I really have depression? (I've never been diagnosed.)From your description, (you) 'feel less social phobia, less depression, more motivation'. You could have depression, but does it really matter? It helps you to feel better.
> 2. Should it be 900mg a day, or 1800mg a day?
There is no need to take more than that amount which provides relief. You don't need to fix what isn't broken. There are stronger statistical associations between higher dose SJW and remission from depression, but that is what you'd expect to find.
> 3. Will this wear off?It can, certainly. I don't think there is any antidepressant that is free from poop-out. Our bodies can adapt in ways we don't wish them to, but chronic exposure to any psych drug makes adapatation more likely. You can increase the dose later, if the benefits seem to wain.
> Thanks all,
> foglady aka fogmamaWelcome,
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on August 29, 2007, at 18:54:41
In reply to Re: St Johns Wort - dosage, posted by foglady on August 28, 2007, at 7:02:53
> Thanks Netch. The closest thing I have to a diagnosis (from a reader on another board!) is "double depression". Is that the same as "mixed state"? Appreciate the info! fogmama
"Double depression" is a long-term dysthymic state, with shorter term excursions into deeper depression.
Lar
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on August 31, 2007, at 14:37:21
In reply to St Johns Wort - dosage, posted by foglady on August 27, 2007, at 22:32:59
Have a look at:
Its a sorta babble for SJW users.
Kind regards
Meri
Posted by bleauberry on September 19, 2007, at 19:32:47
In reply to St Johns Wort - dosage, posted by foglady on August 27, 2007, at 22:32:59
www.sjwinfo.org will give you a bunch of info from hundreds of sjw users.
Basically most people take 600mg to 900mg. A very few take more. Some less. Some only dose it once every 2 or 3 days. Most everyday.
Time of day makes a huge difference. Many people found that when their multiple daily doses weren't working well, taking it all at once in the evening worked great. And vica versa for other people.
If it poops out, decrease the dose. That's right. There are tons of people that experienced that phenomenon. They lowered the dose and were surprised at the return of efficacy. People who raised the dose usually felt much worse.
Brand makes a huge difference. A lot of people to best on the cheap brands standardized for hypericin. They feel much worse on quality brands standardized to hyperforin. And vica versa. Some people do not respond to the cheap brands, but have amazing results with hyperforin brands. Hyperforin can either be like majic or can induce suicidal feelings. So, brand is important.
Posted by bleauberry on September 20, 2007, at 16:19:33
In reply to St Johns Wort - dosage, posted by foglady on August 27, 2007, at 22:32:59
And as an add-on to brands, some people tried 2, 3, 4 or 5 different ones before they found one that worked great. I think different brands are as different from one another as antidepressants are from one another. Probably has to do with the extraction process, fillers, stamping procedure of tablets, source of the raw material, etc. There are so many compounds in SJW and no one really knows for sure how they work. I am sure all of the above mentioned variables have an effect on the various compounds. And speaking of compounds, many people are now saying hyperforin is the primary active ingredient. The problem with that though is that in Europe there is a brand called Remotiv that has zero hyperforin and it outperformed regular SJW. Go figure. Anyway, brand is important and sometimes several need to be tried.
This is the end of the thread.
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