![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 32 to 56 of 68. Go back in thread:
Posted by Rob25 on April 26, 2004, at 13:38:43
In reply to I think the kidney study is flawed -Michael Motter, posted by Rob25 on April 26, 2004, at 13:32:41
I guess I'm confused about where all these postings go. :p Oh well. Maybe he'll find it.
Posted by stebu on April 26, 2004, at 13:48:58
In reply to I think the kidney study is flawed -Michael Motter, posted by Rob25 on April 26, 2004, at 13:32:41
Rob,
I'm so thrilled to have someone else who reads research. Thanks for the lowdown on the kidney study.
Steve
Posted by joebob on May 1, 2004, at 9:37:21
In reply to I think the kidney study is flawed -Michael Motter, posted by Rob25 on April 26, 2004, at 13:32:41
your post...i too read the flawed study summary and was somewhat concerned, but did not have access to the full study to uncover the flaw!
you've put my mind to rest
by the way,how much do you take? what is your dx?
thanks a bunch
joebob
> Hi, Michael --
>
> Your other comment to me in a different thread got moved and the move didn't show who the posts were to, so I decided to comment here.
>
> You suggested that I read articles about Dr. Nieper and talk to a pdoc before using lithium orotate.
>
> Actually, I had previously read YOUR article above about Hans Nieper and lithium orotate. : ) And I had formerly read info about Dr. Nieper's products not being let into the US. One of the articles had the exact paperwork describing the reason, which was because the labels were in German.
>
> And despite what the reasons may or may not have been, I've had a long and ugly history with this illness. I've been all over the place and never had those nice periods of stability that other bipolars seem to get. I've been taking lithium orotate with the blessing of my pdoc, mainly because nothing else has worked well for me. Some things probably would have except I'm apparently ultra-sensitive to side effects.
>
> I've now been completely stable for the many months now for the first time in my life. The only time during this period I wasn't doing well is when I went off the lithium orotate for two weeks because I couldn't believe something so cheap and easy to take could be doing all this--maybe I had just hit one of those great stable periods of the cosmic bipolar cycle. But two weeks off was enough for me--and everyone around me--to realize what was making the difference.
>
> Yeah, I know that as far as some people are concerned, my case is just anectodal. S'ok with me. I'm just glad this stuff works for me. And it has worked for lots of people I've told about it, too. So people can try to dredge up anything negative they can find about lithium orotate. All I know is that the stuff works for me and lots of other people too.
>
> Also, I believe that kidney info you refer to is flawed.
>
> My understanding of the test that was done regarding the kidney fuction comparison between lithium orotate and lithium carbonate is this: (btw, I have studied both the abstract and the full text of the article of the research done in 1979 by Smith and Schou.)
>
> They injected rats with both lithium carbonate and lithium orotate (and a neutral injection of sodium chloride) and then measured kidney functioning, urine flow, etc. The results were that the lithium orotate seemed to cause lower kidney functioning.
>
> However, the HUGE and apparently completely overlooked point here is this--they injected the rats with the SAME amounts of lithum orotate and lithium carbonate. Anyone see a problem here?? The point is, people DON'T TAKE the same enormous amounts of lithium orotate as they have to take with lithium carbonate and lithium citrate!! An effective dose is typically like 15 mg of elemental lithium from lithium orotate compared to 126 mg of elemental lithium from lithium carbonate, which is more than 800% more lithium!
>
> So when I see people quote that study, I wonder why nobody's comparing apples to apples. Instead the study compares grapes to watermelons and the results end up skewed and completely indifferent to the way lithium orotate is administered in actual use.
>
> Thank you for your concern and input, though. I think it's very helpful for people to present their thoughts to each other as we all try to get through this.
>
> Rob
>
>
Posted by katia on November 11, 2004, at 17:46:18
In reply to Re: anyone tried lithium orotate?, posted by stebu on March 8, 2004, at 21:52:06
Hi,
When you say small doses of Trileptal, what dose it that? How's it going with your progress on these? How often do you get your blood tested and how much Li. orotate do you take?
Katia> I've been on Lithium Orotate since I wrote in Sept/93. My depression has not come back. I've been able to titrate off my effexor. This is the time of year when I become hypomanic. As I began to speed up my pdoc increased my Lithium orotate, and I responded right away. I do have a tiny blood level of lithium, and continue to take a small dose of trileptal. I don't have any side effects from Lithium Orotate. I think it's great.
Posted by Barbaracat on November 12, 2004, at 1:31:51
In reply to Lithium Orotate -- BarbaraCat, posted by Rob25 on September 30, 2003, at 14:59:21
Hello Rob,
It's been over a year, are you still out there? The reason I'm posting again is because I've decided to give Li Orotate another try and wanted to compare notes with you since you last wrote to me. Basically, I ran out of my prescription Li carbonate and had some of the orotate hanging around from my last failed trial and thought what the heck, see how it goes. I've been on it over a week at an increased dose and so far very good.The last time I tried it I went by the assurances on the Serenity site that it was so much more efficient that a little went a long way. I was hoping to avoid the side effects of Li, like weight gain and getting more hypothyroid, so I took only 2 120mg tablets a day. Obviously too low, even though I was only at 600mg of the carbonate. I went hypomanic in a week, stuck it out and by week 3 was buying whole nursery pallets of flowers and expensive planting implements and truckloads of compost and pumps and ponds for my multiple waterfall garden projects, along with 6 huge slabs of foam and reams of material to make deck chair cushions (can never have too many, you know). It seemed like a good idea at the time.
Of course, I crashed into major depression shortly thereafter. Went back on prescription Li and was fine in less than a week, although I never did complete that garden project or make the cushions.
This time I'm taking 6 120mg tablets which is a little more than the 600mg of carbonate but I believe my mood is benefitting from the extra without noticing any side effects. I'm sleeping better and have even lost some weight. I'm also taking a research grade St. John's Wort which has helped very much with lingering depression. I hope this combo continues to work because so far it's been the most effective and problem free out of a very long list of trial and errors.
So, just wanted to let get back to you and hope that all is still going well for you. - Barbara
> Lithium orotate works very well for me in completely managing my bipolar disorder. You had posted that:
>
> > But anyway, on to the Lithium Orotate question.
>
> > I think it just doesn't work the way they say it does, especially for people with BP illness. Perhaps it's >good for the neuro protective qualities for people without BP, but not for us.
>
>
> I'm interested in this topic because of my experience with lithium orotate. I'm interested in hearing who it does not work for and wondering what the different factors involved are. It does work extremely well for me. I would have possibly ventured a guess that maybe it doesn't work for those who have previously been on Rx lithium, since that was your case. Except the friend of ours who told me about lithium orotate had swtiched from lithium carbonate straight to lithium orotate. She is also doing very well, which is why she recommended it to me.
>
> I was not doing particularly well on anything. I have a long history with this illness. I'd been on a number of med cocktails. When I began on lithium orotate, I had been on depakote and wellbutrin. Of everthing I have taken, lithium orotate has worked the best for me. Maybe I'm more sensitive to side effects or something and some of those other meds would have worked fine if I had been able to tolerate the side effects. I'm not sure.
>
> Anyway, I'm just interested in what the different factors involved are that make a difference because I know that lithium orotate can work extremely well. Is BP subtype a factor? I am BPII but our friend is BPI. What other factors might be involved I wonder? Of course, the bottom line on all this stuff is that we are all different and nothing works for everyone.
>
> The truth is, I'm gearing up in case one of our kids turns out to be bipolar also. We don't know anything like that yet, but I know it is a distinct possibility as my father was bp as are other relatives on his side. In case we have to deal with this, I was thinking that lithium orotate was the answer to the whole bp problem with it being so easy to use with the no side effects and such good results. I've always said I'd never put one of our kids through what I had to go through and with lithium orotate, they wouldn't have to go through all that. But then I see a post like yours where it just plain didn't work and I start to wonder why.
>
> I'd be very interested in any thoughts you or anyone else might have regarding this.
>
> Rob
>
>
> --Sorry for the duplicate post on the other board. I just now noticed that Dr. Bob moved the thread to here.
Posted by Rob25 on December 16, 2004, at 22:40:05
In reply to Re: Lithium Orotate » Rob25, posted by Barbaracat on November 12, 2004, at 1:31:51
Hey, Barbara!
I'm not around here much, but I do check in every once in a while to look at some info on something or other. I'm glad I happened to see your post when I came.
Wow, I've followed your saga for a long time, and your bad history with all the meds that are supposed to help is about like mine. Lithium orotate is the first thing that every really helped me. Well, there are other meds that would have helped, but I couldn't take the side effects.
That's great that this is also working for you! It's pretty dumb, but I'm always so happy to see that because I envision another weary, tortured soul being released from bipolar hell.
Yes, it's still working great for me. Like you, I also address the depression with additional supplements. I don't use the SJW because it can cause mania in some BPs. I didn't want to take the chance because I am terrible when I'm manic. But if it's working for you, stick with it until it doesn't, I say.
I'm using 5-htp for the depression--a 50mg cap 2x daily. People wanting to take it should be careful not to use too much! I also use taurine and inositol--powders that I just mix in water or juice. My sister spends lots of time researching things for those of us in the family who are BP and had found lots of info on these being helpful for bipolars. It's also critical to use a good source of magnesium. Personally, I think magnesium citrate is the best way to go. Lastly, but extremely important, take a GOOD multivitamin and a tablet (or liquid if you can stand it) of trace minerals -- a MUST.
This sounds like a lot, but it's just a small daily routine. Nothing to it. And altogether, it's all so much better for the insane highs and the kill-myself lows that ANYTHING I've ever done. But without the lithium orotate, the rest of this won't do much for my mental/emotional state. The L O keeps me level and the rest keeps me 'tuned up'.
Gotta head out--life, meaning the wife and the ankle-biters, calls.
Oh, in case you're interested, there's another message board specifically for lithium orotate, although it's pretty slow. But questions and sometimes answers get posted there. My other sister and I both post there, although she more than me. There's an interesting 'discussion' there right now with a doctor (or so he says) and the administrator of the board about that lithium orotate--kidney thing. Here's the URL
http://www.quicktopic.com/23/H/MpcfQa4fZZeI hope things will continue to go well for you! Make sure to check in here to let everyone know how it's going. I'll watch for you.
Regards,
Rob
> Hello Rob,
> It's been over a year, are you still out there? The reason I'm posting again is because I've decided to give Li Orotate another try and wanted to compare notes with you since you last wrote to me. Basically, I ran out of my prescription Li carbonate and had some of the orotate hanging around from my last failed trial and thought what the heck, see how it goes. I've been on it over a week at an increased dose and so far very good.
>
> The last time I tried it I went by the assurances on the Serenity site that it was so much more efficient that a little went a long way. I was hoping to avoid the side effects of Li, like weight gain and getting more hypothyroid, so I took only 2 120mg tablets a day. Obviously too low, even though I was only at 600mg of the carbonate. I went hypomanic in a week, stuck it out and by week 3 was buying whole nursery pallets of flowers and expensive planting implements and truckloads of compost and pumps and ponds for my multiple waterfall garden projects, along with 6 huge slabs of foam and reams of material to make deck chair cushions (can never have too many, you know). It seemed like a good idea at the time.
>
> Of course, I crashed into major depression shortly thereafter. Went back on prescription Li and was fine in less than a week, although I never did complete that garden project or make the cushions.
>
> This time I'm taking 6 120mg tablets which is a little more than the 600mg of carbonate but I believe my mood is benefitting from the extra without noticing any side effects. I'm sleeping better and have even lost some weight. I'm also taking a research grade St. John's Wort which has helped very much with lingering depression. I hope this combo continues to work because so far it's been the most effective and problem free out of a very long list of trial and errors.
>
> So, just wanted to let get back to you and hope that all is still going well for you. - Barbara
>
>
>
> > Lithium orotate works very well for me in completely managing my bipolar disorder. You had posted that:
> >
> > > But anyway, on to the Lithium Orotate question.
> >
> > > I think it just doesn't work the way they say it does, especially for people with BP illness. Perhaps it's >good for the neuro protective qualities for people without BP, but not for us.
> >
> >
> > I'm interested in this topic because of my experience with lithium orotate. I'm interested in hearing who it does not work for and wondering what the different factors involved are. It does work extremely well for me. I would have possibly ventured a guess that maybe it doesn't work for those who have previously been on Rx lithium, since that was your case. Except the friend of ours who told me about lithium orotate had swtiched from lithium carbonate straight to lithium orotate. She is also doing very well, which is why she recommended it to me.
> >
> > I was not doing particularly well on anything. I have a long history with this illness. I'd been on a number of med cocktails. When I began on lithium orotate, I had been on depakote and wellbutrin. Of everthing I have taken, lithium orotate has worked the best for me. Maybe I'm more sensitive to side effects or something and some of those other meds would have worked fine if I had been able to tolerate the side effects. I'm not sure.
> >
> > Anyway, I'm just interested in what the different factors involved are that make a difference because I know that lithium orotate can work extremely well. Is BP subtype a factor? I am BPII but our friend is BPI. What other factors might be involved I wonder? Of course, the bottom line on all this stuff is that we are all different and nothing works for everyone.
> >
> > The truth is, I'm gearing up in case one of our kids turns out to be bipolar also. We don't know anything like that yet, but I know it is a distinct possibility as my father was bp as are other relatives on his side. In case we have to deal with this, I was thinking that lithium orotate was the answer to the whole bp problem with it being so easy to use with the no side effects and such good results. I've always said I'd never put one of our kids through what I had to go through and with lithium orotate, they wouldn't have to go through all that. But then I see a post like yours where it just plain didn't work and I start to wonder why.
> >
> > I'd be very interested in any thoughts you or anyone else might have regarding this.
> >
> > Rob
> >
> >
> > --Sorry for the duplicate post on the other board. I just now noticed that Dr. Bob moved the thread to here.
>
>
Posted by katia on December 17, 2004, at 1:34:48
In reply to Re: Lithium Orotate » Barbaracat, posted by Rob25 on December 16, 2004, at 22:40:05
Hey ya'll!
Dman! I just ordered SJW today! I don't want to get manic over it. Like you Rob. But I'm on Trileptal too.
I think that this light box is making me slightly manic....
anyone else have this experience?I just bought a GREAT red dress for my Grandmother's 100th b. day party in Miami!!! It took my five freakin hours to find something to fit into my BIIIIIIIGGGGG bottom.
I can be an ugly duckling one minute and the next the beautiful swan. it's uncanny. kinda like bipolar swings...but I don't have a red dress now I do!
Barb, do you find that SJW causes mania? I seriously hope not!
Katia
Posted by barbaracat on December 17, 2004, at 14:35:21
In reply to Re: Lithium Orotate » Barbaracat, posted by Rob25 on December 16, 2004, at 22:40:05
Hi Rob,
Well, unfortunately Li Orotate did not continue with it's positive start and I had to return to Li Carbonate, which is fine because I can tolerate it and only need 600mg for efficacy. I was taking 900mg Li Orotate and after about 4 weeks began to notice the unmistakable signs of an agitated depression beginning. Li Carbonate again took away those symptoms within 1 week and I've finally learned my lesson. Lithium Carbonate is my friend and I shall never again let my stash run dry.I also take fish oil, and inositol (myo-inositol from Jarrow) which I believe helps alot. Also taurine. I take my magnesium as Mg-taurate which I figure is getting more of a mood stabilizing hit. I'm looking to find a good multivitamin/mineral complex that is not fractionalized but in a bioassimilable form because I don't seem to absorb the usual synthesized forms very well. There's a liquid product called Panacea that promises to deliver.
I've got an appointment with a naturopathic doctor who works in a clinic specializing in mood disorders. Going to get the krypto-pyrroluria, methylization, etc. etc. tests done. Sure hope they find something!
Part of the tricky stuff is if you metabolize one way, one set of B vitamins will work, if you metabolize another, they will be detrimental if what the Pfeiffer Institute says is true. But I seem to do well on fish oil, folate, and B6 so it's probably not pyrroluria (which I am SURE my father had).
So, glad the orotate is working for you and best of luck and happy holidays - always a challenging time even for the sanest of us. - Barbara
Posted by katia on December 17, 2004, at 14:51:22
In reply to Re: Lithium Orotate » Rob25, posted by barbaracat on December 17, 2004, at 14:35:21
Hi Barb,
I believe that metabolizing stuff is true. That's the type of nutritionist I saw. his website www.bloodph.com and that book I showed you "The Nutrition Solution" by Kristal and Haig.It's one avenue of support in all this. A naturpath that specializes in mood disorders is just what I need.
I went in to see my pdoc like a good little girl to find out if I'm using my lightbox effectively and to find out more about SJW and Li. Orotate. His answer to all the above questions was "I don't know". It was a very telling session that costs my credit card $115. It was a joke. He works strictly on pharma meds alone and that is all he knows. I got no input from him at all, other than yes I could phase out Paxil and add SJW. I figured my payment for the sessions go towards the free meds he gives me.I really want to work with someone who knows about pharma and holistic methods - integral. An ideal pdoc would work WITH a holistic naturopath don't you think?
Anyone know of this in the BAy Area of Cal?
Posted by barbaracat on December 17, 2004, at 14:57:30
In reply to Li Or. and Light Boxes » Rob25, posted by katia on December 17, 2004, at 1:34:48
Katia,
You do not, I repeat YOU DO NOT have a big bottom!!!!!! I'm sure that red dress is gonna look bitchin'. But I do know about the ugly duckling/swan thing. I think bipolar and depression does something weird with the face muscles and brings out bad hair day genes.Does SJW make one manic? When I first started taking it (start slow, BTW, only 1 the first week, 2 the second and stop there for a while to see how it goes). I definitely felt a lift, a nice little buzz like that first nice buzzy feeling from a bump up in Lamictal. I felt a little hypomanic, but in a nice way and then it smoothed out. I was trying all different sorts and the one I started out on was the Perika form (HBC Protocols uses the Indena form - different pharaceutical companies and formulations). Perika, I found out is the most activating and then Kira, so they're not the ones we want. I also tried Flora brand whole herb infused in olive oil and I think I liked that one alot, it was very gentle. I was taking 2 Flora's along with the 2 HBC's and then ran out of Flora.
To answer your question, if I take 3 HBCs a day I feel irritated and unsettled. It goes away when I just take 2, which is probably due to the bipolar thing.
I'm going to try an experiment and order some of the Flora again. No one knows how the heck SJW works, some say its the hypericin content, others say the hyperformin, but no one knows. I figure I'll cover all my bases and add a full spectrum brand, maybe adding 1 extra Flora since I seem to be strugging with some low-level depression blahs. This combo made me feel the best: 2 of the HBC and 2 of the Flora. I'll have to experiment on dosages. I need a set of test tubes for Christmas.
When are you going to your Grandma's Birthday party? And don't forget, if a gorgeous gal in a red dress didn't have some kind of a hypomanic wild streak going, everyone at the party would be disappointed!
Hey ya'll!
> Dman! I just ordered SJW today! I don't want to get manic over it. Like you Rob. But I'm on Trileptal too.
> I think that this light box is making me slightly manic....
> anyone else have this experience?
>
> I just bought a GREAT red dress for my Grandmother's 100th b. day party in Miami!!! It took my five freakin hours to find something to fit into my BIIIIIIIGGGGG bottom.
> I can be an ugly duckling one minute and the next the beautiful swan. it's uncanny. kinda like bipolar swings...but I don't have a red dress now I do!
> Barb, do you find that SJW causes mania? I seriously hope not!
> Katia
>
>
Posted by katia on December 17, 2004, at 15:21:24
In reply to Re: Li Or. and Light Boxes » katia, posted by barbaracat on December 17, 2004, at 14:57:30
Thanks Barbara for your kind words...however, I just hide it well. Even the lady at Macy's couldn't believe that nothing was fitting. It's too long in the legs, too big in the waist and too tight in the, um, bottom area. I have a disfigurment!
Wow! you really do need test tubes! I'm just hoping that the stuff I ordered (from your recommendation) works and I can phase out of the Paxil. I have constant nausea and dizziness. I"m not sure what it is from. Maybe the light box, maybe the paxil...it really sucks and wears me out quickly.
Have you contacted that referral yet? :-)
take care love,
Katia
Posted by barbaracat on December 17, 2004, at 17:17:32
In reply to Holistic pdoc in SF Bay area? » barbaracat, posted by katia on December 17, 2004, at 14:51:22
As far as your pdoc, the fact that he's even willing to entertain SJW vs. Paxil is amazing (although I have no doubt you know more about the subject than he does). My pdoc, I think I mentioned, was pretty cool and hip to alot of stuff - a real Bikenstock kinda guy (literally). But, other than fish oil, he wouldn't talk about anything that didn't have all kinds of rigorous clinical trials. And guess who sponsors all those trials? Not the herb and vitamin companies, that's for sure. Have you seen prices for prescriptions lately? Arrrgghh! If this guy is giving you enough freebies, keep him! Holistically minded pdocs are a rare breed anyway.
You are so right. You'd think the naturopaths, alternative and pdocs would be working together more. As much as I appreciate my holistic doctor and naturopath, they really don't know much about psychiatry and vice versa. They have much to share with each other and there's so much to know. There are Orthomolecular Psychiatrists but I don't think the different psychiatric disciplines speak to each other. Ego.
As I mentioned to Rob, I'm going to be seeing a new naturopath whose clinic specializes in mood disorders. The way that I found this place was I called our local naturopathic college and asked if their lab did testing for kryptopyroluria, the most common test for autism and bipolar. I asked for some names of doctors that use the tests and they a recommendation.
Here's a site to look at. It's got names of some labs around the country that do this testing and they'll probably be able to give you recommendations.
http://www.nutritional-healing.com.au/content/articles-content.php?heading=Pyroluria
You could also try Bastyr University in Seattle, WA. I don't know who you'd talk to but they're the main naturopathic college in the country and should have a good database. I do know of a few doctors in the Bay Area you should NOT go to, (big bucks and not much bang for them) so when you get a hit, run it by me.
> Hi Barb,
> I believe that metabolizing stuff is true. That's the type of nutritionist I saw. his website www.bloodph.com and that book I showed you "The Nutrition Solution" by Kristal and Haig.
>
> It's one avenue of support in all this. A naturpath that specializes in mood disorders is just what I need.
> I went in to see my pdoc like a good little girl to find out if I'm using my lightbox effectively and to find out more about SJW and Li. Orotate. His answer to all the above questions was "I don't know". It was a very telling session that costs my credit card $115. It was a joke. He works strictly on pharma meds alone and that is all he knows. I got no input from him at all, other than yes I could phase out Paxil and add SJW. I figured my payment for the sessions go towards the free meds he gives me.
>
> I really want to work with someone who knows about pharma and holistic methods - integral. An ideal pdoc would work WITH a holistic naturopath don't you think?
> Anyone know of this in the BAy Area of Cal?
>
>
Posted by barbaracat on December 17, 2004, at 17:48:56
In reply to Re: Li Or. and Light Boxes » barbaracat, posted by katia on December 17, 2004, at 15:21:24
> Thanks Barbara for your kind words...however, I just hide it well. Even the lady at Macy's couldn't believe that nothing was fitting. It's too long in the legs, too big in the waist and too tight in the, um, bottom area. I have a disfigurment!
**A disfigurement! Nobody listen to her! You are so full of ka-ka!!! (Hmmm, maybe that's your bum problem....). Seriously though, ha ha, those 'tummy slimming' panties work wonders ('bummy slimming'?).
**Here's what I would do. I would NOT phase off Paxil too quickly until you definitely feel a lift from the SJW. It may not work for you and you don't want to be without. The only reason I was meandering back there about one brand over another and dosages was like thinking out loud. I definitely felt at my best after a very long hard spell when I was doing 2 HBC Protocols and 2 Floras a day. This might be because I had been in such a dark place that I just needed the extra SJW in the form of the Flora which I eventually ran out of. It might also be because I had both on hand and wanted to use up both. I only know that one day I woke up and saw light shining around life again.
If SJW is going to work for you, as a bipolar you can't do any better than the HBC Protocols, especially because it's smooth and even, compared with all the other pharmaceutical grade brands, PLUS it contains a higher dosage of both active constituents, where most contain only one constituent (hyperforin or hypericin) or the other. It's also waaaaayyyy cheaper than any other brand. It's the cadillac, in my opinion of pharmaceutical SJW.
I heard my husband praising it's virtues to a friend the other day. He did OK on zoloft for a while then it pooped. He's had nothing but good to say for SJW. He is not bipolar but he is dysthymic and probably has SAD and he could be the SJW poster-child, although I'd be more assured if he were also BP).
The only unknown is whether there's something else going on that hasn't been isolated, that's in the whole plant, such as the Flora brand, that acts just a wee bit more effectively as I found after my long dark haul last winter. So, I was just then (and now) meandering, trying to pry it out how I could experiment on myself, but keep you aware of the various forms the different effects SJW can take. It's so unlike a standardized capsule and it just takes experimentation.
No, I haven't called her. I will, I definitely will. If you get a chance to talk to her and mentioned me, let her know it will happen. This time of year is just so crazy. No excuse, but at least an explanation. - Luv, B.
>
> Wow! you really do need test tubes! I'm just hoping that the stuff I ordered (from your recommendation) works and I can phase out of the Paxil. I have constant nausea and dizziness. I"m not sure what it is from. Maybe the light box, maybe the paxil...it really sucks and wears me out quickly.
>
> Have you contacted that referral yet? :-)
> take care love,
> Katia
Posted by doug9732 on April 19, 2005, at 22:42:42
In reply to Re: anyone tried lithium orotate?, posted by bruce_w6 on April 17, 2004, at 14:53:08
I've been taking one Advanced Research 120mg tablet a day since last August, and after two weeks my 50+ year old obsessional anxiety problem had noticeably improved. I have a high body weight, so it's impressive to get noticeable results on one tablet a day. I also take tri-methyl-glycine ( TMG ) for depression; it's an s-adenosyl-methionine precursor, and my experience indicates it is better than all of the alternatives, and also excellent for general health!
Posted by KaraS on April 25, 2005, at 15:04:01
In reply to Re: anyone tried lithium orotate?, posted by doug9732 on April 19, 2005, at 22:42:42
> I've been taking one Advanced Research 120mg tablet a day since last August, and after two weeks my 50+ year old obsessional anxiety problem had noticeably improved. I have a high body weight, so it's impressive to get noticeable results on one tablet a day. I also take tri-methyl-glycine ( TMG ) for depression; it's an s-adenosyl-methionine precursor, and my experience indicates it is better than all of the alternatives, and also excellent for general health!
There have been various threads on this in the past. Some have found it very helpful, others didn't. "LOOPS" takes it so if you do a search, you might want to include her posting name.
Posted by katia on May 5, 2005, at 14:44:56
In reply to Re: Lithium Orotate » Barbaracat, posted by Rob25 on December 16, 2004, at 22:40:05
Anyone tried this? Results?
Posted by katia on May 19, 2005, at 15:52:17
In reply to Re: anyone tried lithium orotate?, posted by stebu on March 8, 2004, at 21:52:06
Hi,
Are you still on Li. Orotate? How much? And how much Trileptal? I'm on 450 of Tril. and 12.5 Seroquel and st. jOhn's Wort. However, I feel a depression creeping in. I just ordered Li. Orotate (nasal spray) and am wanting to take it for the depression and along with that reduce my Trileptal to 300mg a day.How has it helped with depression?
Thanks-
Katia> I've been on Lithium Orotate since I wrote in Sept/93. My depression has not come back. I've been able to titrate off my effexor. This is the time of year when I become hypomanic. As I began to speed up my pdoc increased my Lithium orotate, and I responded right away. I do have a tiny blood level of lithium, and continue to take a small dose of trileptal. I don't have any side effects from Lithium Orotate. I think it's great.
Posted by katia on May 20, 2005, at 15:12:24
In reply to Re: anyone tried lithium orotate? » stebu, posted by katia on May 19, 2005, at 15:52:17
Anyone ever experience this?
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 21, 2005, at 9:11:29
In reply to Cognitive blunting on lithium orotate?, posted by katia on May 20, 2005, at 15:12:24
> Anyone ever experience this?
That's an acknowledged side effect of lithium itself. Try a lower dose.
Lar
Posted by katia on May 21, 2005, at 12:38:34
In reply to Re: Cognitive blunting on lithium orotate? » katia, posted by Larry Hoover on May 21, 2005, at 9:11:29
> > Anyone ever experience this?
>
> That's an acknowledged side effect of lithium itself. Try a lower dose.
>
> LarYes, I realize that. But I thought that the advantages of Li. Orotate were to eliminate that side effect. I got it terribly on Li. Carb and was hoping that it wouldn't be the same. That was more my question....
I can't take a lower dose because I'm doing the nasal spray and only doing one squirt. I started two days ago and am finishing my last quarter in grad school and have lots of reading. It took me all day to read only 30 pages!! I have to finish the entire book of 200 pages by next week. I don't have time to be slow and stupid.
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 21, 2005, at 13:57:30
In reply to Re: Cognitive blunting on lithium orotate?, posted by katia on May 21, 2005, at 12:38:34
> I can't take a lower dose because I'm doing the nasal spray and only doing one squirt. I started two days ago and am finishing my last quarter in grad school and have lots of reading. It took me all day to read only 30 pages!! I have to finish the entire book of 200 pages by next week. I don't have time to be slow and stupid.
I had never heard of nasal lithium orotate.....the website says one spray provides about 3 mg of lithium orotate (4 sprays is 14 mg). http://www.lithiumorotate.com/dosage.html
That is a trivial amount of lithium, really. I have no idea just how the pharmacokinetics change with nasal delivery, but that is not much to think about. The tablets of lithium orotate that I have supply 120 mg.
Maybe it's the GABA? The thing is, if the spray isn't helping, then it's no good for you.
Lar
Posted by katia on May 21, 2005, at 14:13:54
In reply to Re: Cognitive blunting on lithium orotate? » katia, posted by Larry Hoover on May 21, 2005, at 13:57:30
Hi,
That's exactly what I have the HBC one. I'm really sensitive though to EVERYTHING so I didn't take it today and I feel a lift. However two days of it....I'm not sure. It could be the mild depression I feel. But I feel a lift today, so who knows! I'll monitor from here. I also went from 450 mg of Trileptal to 300mg two days ago as well. Maybe that's helping with a fog/mild depression. I'll do one thing at a time. I'll give this reduction a few days and then add the Li. again and see what happens (only if my mood doesn't remain lifted). My main thing is depression so being on just a mood stablizer seems silly...but I also took some opium last night (hehe....ok, not opium but just 1/2 of a vicodin for a terrible headache). That definitely mellows one out nicely.
thanks for your comments.
Katia
Posted by barbaracat on May 21, 2005, at 14:43:04
In reply to Re: Cognitive blunting on lithium orotate? » Larry Hoover, posted by katia on May 21, 2005, at 14:13:54
Vicodin, or hydrocodone, is enough to lift me out of a terrible mood. I wish doctors's would consider it as first line mood therapy. I have never gotten addicted to it. I use it for fibromyalgia pain, but it has the nice secondary quality of removing my depression, sometimes for good because I end up having a terrific time on it.
I hope you keep up that Li Orotate nasal a while longer to see, for the rest of us, if it's really doing anything. Cheers and hope you're feeling better, Ms. Kitty. - Barbara
> That's exactly what I have the HBC one. I'm really sensitive though to EVERYTHING so I didn't take it today and I feel a lift. However two days of it....I'm not sure. It could be the mild depression I feel. But I feel a lift today, so who knows! I'll monitor from here. I also went from 450 mg of Trileptal to 300mg two days ago as well. Maybe that's helping with a fog/mild depression. I'll do one thing at a time. I'll give this reduction a few days and then add the Li. again and see what happens (only if my mood doesn't remain lifted). My main thing is depression so being on just a mood stablizer seems silly...but I also took some opium last night (hehe....ok, not opium but just 1/2 of a vicodin for a terrible headache). That definitely mellows one out nicely.
> thanks for your comments.
> Katia
Posted by katia on May 21, 2005, at 15:05:27
In reply to Re: Cognitive blunting on lithium orotate? » katia, posted by barbaracat on May 21, 2005, at 14:43:04
Thanks Ms. BarbaraCat,
I will retry it in a couple of days. I want to do one thing at a time.
I'm still eyeing that cymbalta too.
Is it as terrible with the w/drawals as Effexor, do you know? That's what I'm FRIGHTENED of.
Posted by barbaracat on May 21, 2005, at 15:43:18
In reply to Re: Cognitive blunting on lithium orotate? » barbaracat, posted by katia on May 21, 2005, at 15:05:27
I forgot to take Cymbalta a couple days and if anything I felt better. As long as I don't drink, the day starts out pretty good, and that's when I notice the effects of Cym best - the morning after.
Supposedly, because it has a 12 hours half life it's been said to be rough, with some people feeling withdrawal the same day. I never had that experience. But maybe because my dose is so low.
I'm up to 60 pellets now, hoping to wipe away some depression that snuck up on me around my brother/me issues and bringing up grief for my Mom that just isn't healing. I think I need some therapy. I'm feeling alot of sadness lately. It's all appropriate sadness, of course, but I'd also like to experience a little happiness too cause I have a lot to get done and depression is soooo counterproductive. Love, B.
> Thanks Ms. BarbaraCat,
> I will retry it in a couple of days. I want to do one thing at a time.
> I'm still eyeing that cymbalta too.
> Is it as terrible with the w/drawals as Effexor, do you know? That's what I'm FRIGHTENED of.
>
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