Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 1113573

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Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences? » alexandra_k

Posted by linkadge on February 4, 2021, at 6:59:25

In reply to Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences?, posted by alexandra_k on February 2, 2021, at 13:18:50

>One concern that I have heard is that anti->bodies have the potential to bind not just to >the pathogens that we want them to bind to -- >but to parts of the persons body (which is >one form of auto-immune disorder).

I'm noticing a trend here. People who say they don't want the vaccine are saying ..... "I've heard ....". There's a lot of misinformation out there. People say a lot of uneducated and uninformed things. Those things travel and get passed on by people who don't want to cognitively challenge them.

Think of it this way. How much misinformation is there about antidepressants out there? Many of us take them. Many of us depend on them. If you trusted a redit newsgroup for your advice on antidepressant safety, then you'd just run for the hills. Of course there are risks and unknowns, but all of this needs to stay in perspective.

Again, many people here take lamotrigine. It can cause severe dermatological reactions. However, it is not causing an autoimmune disorder. It is simply a reaction (likely due to some yet-unidentified genetic variations). Most people who have a reaction to lamotrigine recover just fine once the drug is removed. Yeah, some die, but it's extremely rare in proportion to the number of people that benefit.

If you had published scientific research, then of course, would take a look. A vaccine does not activate the immune system in perpetuity. It briefly activates the immune system so that antibodies can be produced.

Here's another way to think of it. Every single time you have a cold or flu (or any infection) you immune system is activated!! Does this mean you develop an autoimmune disorder because the antibodies produced start attacking your body? Of course not. Autoimmune disorders are poorly understood, but there is no established link to vaccines.

Linkadge


 

Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences?

Posted by linkadge on February 4, 2021, at 7:11:24

In reply to Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences?, posted by alexandra_k on February 2, 2021, at 13:30:13

>So the idea isn't that vaccinations CAUSE >disease or disorder...

>But the vaccination could serve as a stimulus or >trigger for a pre-existing susceptibility...

>And one way of viewing it is that that is a very >very very rare situation.

Exactly. There are huge differences in genetics which (some day) may explain why some people react certain ways to certain things.

Most people can eat peanuts just fine. Some people have an anaphylactic reaction to peanuts and die. However, this is rare and is not a reason to ban or avoid peanuts entirely. Most people who have a reaction can take epinephrine and recover just fine. The peanuts did not cause the autoimmune disorder - they triggered it. In fact some studies show that early life exposure to peanuts actually reduces the risk of later reactions. Yes, peanuts caused the reaction, but they did not cause the susceptibility to the reaction. In other words, peanuts weren't the cause, they were the trigger in susceptible individuals. What is causing the rise in peanut allergies? Who knows. But there are a kazillion more industrial chemicals in our bodies than there were a few decades ago. Any one of them could be the reason.

Linkadge



 

Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences? » linkadge

Posted by Phillipa on February 4, 2021, at 9:15:49

In reply to Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences? » Phillipa, posted by linkadge on February 4, 2021, at 6:48:21

Link you are so very knowledgeable and always have been. Seems that some States here are much slower to vaccinate than others are. I wrote my endo whose RN said to get the vaccine in SC since I do have an appointment here mid March. Seems that the event at the Panther's Stadium where many thousands of people were vaccinated last weekend used up the supply allotted to NC. As for the immune response was informed the the older a person is the less robust the immune system is. Hence those that live with family around where I live don't experience side effects at all. So this means that the vaccine doesn't work as well in them. So far no one that lives in the homes here had a reaction other than a sore arm to the first vaccine inoculation. But with the second dose if your body produced antibodies than feeling tired, achy, is a good thing. Is this your understanding also? Phillipa

 

Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences?

Posted by Lamdage22 on February 4, 2021, at 16:02:39

In reply to Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences? » rjlockhart37, posted by linkadge on February 4, 2021, at 6:44:51

I believe you, but is it taken into account that not everybody will get COVID?

> The risk of having an adverse reaction to the vaccine is significantly lower than the risk of adverse reactions to COVID.

 

Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences? » Lamdage22

Posted by Phillipa on February 5, 2021, at 9:17:30

In reply to Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences?, posted by Lamdage22 on February 4, 2021, at 16:02:39

But what if you do? Phillipa

 

Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences?

Posted by linkadge on February 5, 2021, at 11:26:39

In reply to Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences? » linkadge, posted by Phillipa on February 4, 2021, at 9:15:49

Having some reaction to the vaccine (i.e. mild flu like symptoms, mild headache) is a sign that the vaccine has activated your immune system (as it is intended to do). This may mean that the vaccine 'takes' better. However, just because you don't react to the vaccine, doesn't mean you won't benefit.

The studies are showing that (even in high risk populations) the vaccine can cut your risk of death significantly.

I don't know about you, but if I got COVID, I sure would appreciate a 50-90% less risk of dying (or getting long term complications for that matter).

As mentioned before, there is some evidence that the virus can longer in the brain. I have had enough issues with fatigue, depression, brain fog, anxiety ect. to risk it.

Linkadge

 

Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences? » linkadge

Posted by Phillipa on February 5, 2021, at 11:54:19

In reply to Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences?, posted by linkadge on February 5, 2021, at 11:26:39

Link, so true as well as myself the anxiety issue with OCD with ruminations. So I torture myself going over and over why I should and why I shouldn't. I would love it if it just disappeared. But know it won't and no I don't want to die and at almost 75 I sure could. If you lived here I would ask you to be my coach on the vaccine. Any good articles you have would be much appreciated. Thanks Phillipa

 

Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences? » Lamdage22

Posted by linkadge on February 5, 2021, at 11:54:54

In reply to Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences?, posted by Lamdage22 on February 4, 2021, at 16:02:39

>I believe you, but is it taken into account that >not everybody will get COVID?

Just looking at data from Norway...there have been 165,000 vaccines delivered and 22 deaths (under investigation for *possible* link to the vaccine). These deaths were among frail elderly. The deaths are *not* believed to be because of the direct effects of the vaccine. Any activation of the immune system can be an issue if you are very frail. 22 deaths out of 165,000 doses is equivalent to (at most) 1 death in 7500. The death rate from COVID is closer to 1 in 100. This makes COVID 75 times more lethal than the vaccine. That is assuming that the vaccine actually killed these 22. In terms of saying that "not everybody will get COVID" consider this. Do you know anybody who has never had the flu? COVID is with us to stay. It is highly infectious, airborne, and will continue to spread among those who don't get vaccinated. You can either get the vaccine or (eventually) get COVID (and then take your chances).

Now perhaps you just want to 'wait and see'. That's a rational approach and I respect that. However, don't let your guard down while you're waiting to see.


 

Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences? » linkadge

Posted by Phillipa on February 5, 2021, at 17:32:40

In reply to Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences? » Lamdage22, posted by linkadge on February 5, 2021, at 11:54:54

Excellent post. Time to get serious . Phillipa

 

Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences? » linkadge

Posted by Phillipa on February 5, 2021, at 20:48:05

In reply to Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences? » Lamdage22, posted by linkadge on February 5, 2021, at 11:54:54

What is PEG in the vaccines?

 

Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences?

Posted by rjlockhart37 on February 5, 2021, at 23:31:04

In reply to Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences? » Lamdage22, posted by linkadge on February 5, 2021, at 11:54:54

conspiracies theories (and only theories) - covid was engineered in a lab, and distributed to mass populations, with deaths, requiring a vacinne, which discreet illness in some people who get it. 2nd - control, and keeping the populations manageable size, and or under control. Free speech, 20th century traditions and laws are gone, we're in a new century with new orders and guidelines.

 

Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences?

Posted by Lamdage22 on February 6, 2021, at 0:55:39

In reply to Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences? » Lamdage22, posted by linkadge on February 5, 2021, at 11:54:54

Thanks for responding. Yeah you are absolutely right, we are impaired enough as it is. We don't need impairment ontop of the impairment we already have. So long term psychiatric consequences of COVID are frequent?

Yeah I want to wait and see right now even though I am a bit tired of the "celibate" lifestyle.

 

Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences?

Posted by Lamdage22 on February 6, 2021, at 1:10:34

In reply to Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences?, posted by Lamdage22 on February 6, 2021, at 0:55:39

The real question is if the Vaccine could have more negative long term consequences than COVID. Im not sure if that can be answered after just one year. It is still a guess. Maybe somewhat educated, but not entirely sure. It is still a bit of a gamble

 

Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences?

Posted by Lamdage22 on February 6, 2021, at 3:24:18

In reply to Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences?, posted by Lamdage22 on February 6, 2021, at 1:10:34

Then again, COVID might have long term consequences we dont yet know about, as well. I dont have a firm opinion on the vaccines, I just want to make the best choice

 

Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences?

Posted by linkadge on February 6, 2021, at 7:12:09

In reply to Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences?, posted by rjlockhart37 on February 5, 2021, at 23:31:04

>conspiracies theories (and only theories) - >covid was engineered in a lab, and distributed >to mass populations, with deaths, requiring a >vacinne, which discreet illness in some people >who get it. 2nd - control, and keeping the >populations manageable size, and or under >control. Free speech, 20th century traditions >and laws are gone, we're in a new century with >new orders and guidelines.

I like a good conspiracy theory myself. But, at the end of the day not a lot of those make a whole lot of sense. Sh*t does just happen from time to time.

Linkadge

 

Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences?

Posted by linkadge on February 6, 2021, at 7:18:33

In reply to Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences?, posted by Lamdage22 on February 6, 2021, at 3:24:18

>Then again, COVID might have long term >consequences we dont yet know about, as well. I >dont have a firm opinion on the vaccines, I just >want to make the best choice

That's what is apparently happening with some folks. I have a friend who is still dealing with crippling fatigue and brain fog (a lawyer) after contracting COVID. This is being reported by many researchers. COVID can cause an inflammatory response which can wreak havoc on the brain, heart, organs etc.

Linkadge

 

Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences? » linkadge

Posted by Phillipa on February 6, 2021, at 8:55:49

In reply to Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences?, posted by linkadge on February 6, 2021, at 7:18:33

What is the PEG that is responsible for those that get serious side effects from the vaccine? Thanks!

 

Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences?

Posted by Phillipa on February 6, 2021, at 11:50:04

In reply to Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences?, posted by linkadge on February 6, 2021, at 7:18:33

Also now radiologists are finding swollen axillary lymph nodes during screening mammograms. I'm beginning to not want the vaccine yet again. Already different side effects on emerging. This one is on the CDC website. Phillipa

 

Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences?

Posted by Lamdage22 on February 6, 2021, at 23:22:12

In reply to Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences?, posted by Phillipa on February 6, 2021, at 11:50:04

Do you have a link? How frequent?

> Also now radiologists are finding swollen axillary lymph nodes during screening mammograms. I'm beginning to not want the vaccine yet again. Already different side effects on emerging. This one is on the CDC website. Phillipa

 

Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences? » Lamdage22

Posted by Phillipa on February 7, 2021, at 8:57:44

In reply to Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences?, posted by Lamdage22 on February 6, 2021, at 23:22:12

CDC website for USA. Remember they said it goes away after a few weeks. Phillipa

 

Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences?

Posted by Lamdage22 on February 7, 2021, at 14:57:45

In reply to Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences? » Lamdage22, posted by Phillipa on February 7, 2021, at 8:57:44

So what I have heard is that Comirnaty and the Moderna vaccine only protect the vaccinated and not those around them. Astra Zenecas vaccine does protect those around but it protects 70% as opposed to 95%.

Does anybode know?

 

Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences? » Lamdage22

Posted by Phillipa on February 7, 2021, at 17:28:58

In reply to Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences?, posted by Lamdage22 on February 7, 2021, at 14:57:45

Is the one that begins with the C Pfizer here in USA? Or is it Johnson & Johnson soon to be released here one shot only? From what I know the vaccines protect the person vaccinated from serious Covid but they can be asymptomatic and spread to others? Is this what you have heard also? Phillipa

 

Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences?

Posted by Lamdage22 on February 7, 2021, at 21:54:01

In reply to Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences? » Lamdage22, posted by Phillipa on February 7, 2021, at 17:28:58

yes Comirnaty is Pfizer(BioNTech) and yes they can be asymptomatic and spread is what I heard.

> Is the one that begins with the C Pfizer here in USA? Or is it Johnson & Johnson soon to be released here one shot only? From what I know the vaccines protect the person vaccinated from serious Covid but they can be asymptomatic and spread to others? Is this what you have heard also? Phillipa

 

Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences? » linkadge

Posted by alexandra_k on February 8, 2021, at 0:55:06

In reply to Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences? » alexandra_k, posted by linkadge on February 4, 2021, at 6:59:25

> I'm noticing a trend here. People who say they don't want the vaccine are saying ..... "I've heard ....".

Yeah. When I say 'I've heard' it's often short-hand for 'Pathoma Says', or, 'I read it in 'First Aid' (First Aid for the United States Medical Lisencing Examination study book).

Does Pathoma or First Aid say things specifically about Covid? No. They say things specifically about vaccinations and the way that different kinds of vaccinations work (the risks and payoffs). They say things about auto-immune disorders and the way they work, insofar as we know about them, and things about what kinds of vaccinations are or are not recommended for various people given what clinicins know about their history of auto-immune disease or potential for it's development.

> There's a lot of misinformation out there. People say a lot of uneducated and uninformed things. Those things travel and get passed on by people who don't want to cognitively challenge them.

Yes. That is true. But it is also true that people try and take advantage of people sometimes and, unfortunately, that has included people being lied to about what medical treatments are likely right for them.

> A vaccine does not activate the immune system in perpetuity. It briefly activates the immune system so that antibodies can be produced.

Well, it aims for increased numbers of memory cells capable of responding to the antigen to be produced by teh body and remain in the body. So there is immunological memory so large numbers of antibodies can be produced if the body is exposed to the antigen in the future (and hopefully those large numbers of antibodies produced in the future won't turn out to be active against the body's own cells or won't turn out to congeal weirdly into clots in the blood or won't turn out to form another kind of... Amyloidosis or prion type of disorder)...

> Autoimmune disorders are poorly understood, but there is no established link to vaccines.

People who have a disposition towards allergies are disposed to making antibodies that target self-tissue instead of antibodies that target other tissue only.

They are often recommended not to have certain kinds of vaccination because of the increased risk that their bodies will make antibodies that target self-tissue. But, again, these are people with conditions like rheumatoid arthritis (where their body has accumulations of self-attacking proteins agglutinating in their synovial fluid) or Lupis or... Certain pre-existing disorders like that.

Like how dust doesn't CAUSE asthma attacks but can trigger an asthma attack in people who have prior existing asthma. Immunisations can cause auto-immune responses in people who have a prior disposition for their bodies to do this. The vaccination simply acts as a trigger for them instead of natural exposure acting as a trigger for them.

I do worry that going all gung-ho on trying to make bodies produce antibodies to a great variety of things (as they are considering with the new mRNA vaccines since teh major benefit of them is that they can be quickly altered in their specificity and a vaccine for a new strain manufacturered relatively easily)... My concern with them wanting to vaccine people against lots and lots of things (many more strains of influenza, new strains of Covid... MOre and more and more and more things...)

My concern is that the body will be producing a lot of antibodies. And when the body produces a lot of proteins like that there is the possibility that they will start to fold strangely or agglutinate with each other or start forming clots with each other or start binding or sticking to the walls of the blood vessels... That the bodies macrophages and natural killer cells start taking chomps out of parts of the body in trying to clear or remove tehm... That the natural killer cells and the like start secreting a lot of digestive enzymes doing more global damage trying to clear the antibodies...

I don't think it is paranoid of me... I think that my concern is based on a relatively good understanding of some of the basic principles of auto-immune disorders and vaccinations and prion diseases and the like...

One of the very very early problems with Covid was micro-clots in the blood. What were the micro-clots comprised of? Antibodies? I don't know that I saw an acount of what the blood clots were...

I wondered at the time that they were saying that the main problem with Covid (the main cause of death) was that the body was producing an extreme immune response and it was the extreme nature of the immune response that was killing people. They couldn't get oxygen absorbed into the lungs because of an inflamatory exudate being produced by the lungs. They had clots. Presumably... Antibodies.

So I wondered if vaccination was going to prevent the body producing that kind of an extreme response...

I don't know.

Those most likely to be harmed by Covid (older with preexisting condition) seemed also most likely to be harmed by Covid vaccination...

I don't know if I'll get a vaccination when they become available to me. I suspect I won't because I don't trust the New Zealand Government who refuses to make their data or the reasoning for their decisions (teh negotiations) public.


 

Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences?

Posted by Lamdage22 on February 8, 2021, at 2:57:24

In reply to Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences?, posted by Lamdage22 on February 7, 2021, at 21:54:01

Well when I say "ive heard" I actually am asking if somebody knows. Not trying to spread anything.

Does Comirnaty protect those around the vaccinated, too?


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