Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 1113209

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Re: Neuroleptic weight gain dose dependend? Linearly?

Posted by Lamdage22 on January 6, 2021, at 3:19:37

In reply to Re: Neuroleptic weight gain dose dependend? Linearly?, posted by undopaminergic on January 6, 2021, at 3:09:22

Well, 3 of them are extremely low dose. Lithium is basically a supplement or me at 225mg, and 75mg Trazodone and 37.5 Venlafaxine. It is the only thing that helps, because the dose is so low that it doesn't replace one problem with another. If I took more, I wouldn't consider it as help because then other problems would kick in. So that is luck that it works (a little bit) at such a low dose

Seroquel and Zyprexa in my regimen are a result of med induced psychosis from Nardil. They work, but they do cause a lot of additional problems!

I think my best bet is to further slowly reduce Seroquel. I know what effects and side effects to expect. I am trying to tackle the weight gain with supplements and careful dosage reduction. And lifestyle!


 

Re: Neuroleptic weight gain dose dependend? Linearly?

Posted by Lamdage22 on January 6, 2021, at 3:21:59

In reply to Re: Neuroleptic weight gain dose dependend? Linearly?, posted by Lamdage22 on January 6, 2021, at 3:19:37

I am not 300 pounds. If I were, it would pose a direct threat to my health and I would consider changing to different Neuroleptics. But as of now it is not that bad. And weight can be lost. It is reversible. As you know (Reboxetine), some things that new meds could easily cause, are not reversible.

 

Re: Neuroleptic weight gain dose dependend? Linearly?

Posted by undopaminergic on January 6, 2021, at 10:42:37

In reply to Re: Neuroleptic weight gain dose dependend? Linearly?, posted by Lamdage22 on January 6, 2021, at 3:21:59

> As you know (Reboxetine), some things that new meds could easily cause, are not reversible.
>

Once in a while, it happens that a drug turns out to have lasting effects, for better or worse. For me, at the time, the depersonalisation from reboxetine was welcome. Now I want my feelings and experience of reality back. I don't think it is irreversible, I just haven't found the way yet.

When it comes to paranoia, I think you must have it in order to outgrow it. So it happened with me. I first learned to live with being in the "spotlight" whatever the devices surveilling me and whoever watching and listening. With time, I saw that there was nothing to worry about, and now, I rarely even think of it, unless there is some good reason to (such as if I noticed someone else was using my dr-bob account!). For that reason, you may wish to lower the antipsychotic dose until you get some paranoia, just enough so that you can handle it and learn to deal with it. I guess this amounts to "exposure therapy".

-undopaminergic

 

Re: Neuroleptic weight gain dose dependend? Linearly?

Posted by Lamdage22 on January 6, 2021, at 11:22:48

In reply to Re: Neuroleptic weight gain dose dependend? Linearly?, posted by undopaminergic on January 6, 2021, at 10:42:37

Right, I shouldnt get too comfortable in my neuroleptic bubble. My reduction from 700 to 650 made the carb cravings a bit more manageable. Now I can resist much more often. Maybe the curve we talked about now begins to become steeper. IE: The reductions I do from now on will have more of an effect on weight gain than the ones I did before. That is my hope.


 

Re: Neuroleptic weight gain dose dependend? Linearly?

Posted by Lamdage22 on January 6, 2021, at 11:32:30

In reply to Re: Neuroleptic weight gain dose dependend? Linearly?, posted by Lamdage22 on January 6, 2021, at 11:22:48

Im also confident I can figure it out without med changes. And this way I dont risk becoming unstable.

 

Re: Neuroleptic weight gain dose dependend? Linearly?

Posted by Lamdage22 on January 6, 2021, at 12:05:30

In reply to Re: Neuroleptic weight gain dose dependend? Linearly?, posted by Lamdage22 on January 6, 2021, at 11:22:48

I am usually not conservative, but with my mental health and meds I am. There is more to lose than to win in this case.

 

Re: Neuroleptic weight gain dose dependend? Linearly?

Posted by undopaminergic on January 7, 2021, at 0:11:04

In reply to Re: Neuroleptic weight gain dose dependend? Linearly?, posted by Lamdage22 on January 6, 2021, at 12:05:30

> I am usually not conservative, but with my mental health and meds I am. There is more to lose than to win in this case.
>

You already had disastrous effects from Nardil. Do you think you are particularly sensitive to medications in general, or what is the likelihood of having such bad luck with another drug?

What you have to win? *If* you find the right medications, you can have a substantial benefit. Most of the drugs won't suit you. Psychopharmacology is all about trial and error.

Have you considered trimipramine? It has antipsychotic and antidepressive effects, but it is alas also an anti-histamine.

-undopaminergic

 

Re: Neuroleptic weight gain dose dependend? Linearly?

Posted by Lamdage22 on January 7, 2021, at 0:23:40

In reply to Re: Neuroleptic weight gain dose dependend? Linearly?, posted by undopaminergic on January 7, 2021, at 0:11:04

"The right medications" often don't exist. I think it is more error than anything else. No I haven't even considered that because I value sex and I get depressed if I don't have it. (Even if it is just by myself).

> What you have to win? *If* you find the right medications, you can have a substantial benefit. Most of the drugs won't suit you. Psychopharmacology is all about trial and error.
>
> Have you considered trimipramine? It has antipsychotic and antidepressive effects, but it is alas also an anti-histamine.
>
> -undopaminergic
>

 

Re: Neuroleptic weight gain dose dependend? Linearly?

Posted by Lamdage22 on January 7, 2021, at 0:28:17

In reply to Re: Neuroleptic weight gain dose dependend? Linearly?, posted by Lamdage22 on January 7, 2021, at 0:23:40

I don't have this unshakable belief in "the right medication". Not with the ones that are out right now. Please respect that.

 

Re: Neuroleptic weight gain dose dependend? Linearly?

Posted by Lamdage22 on January 7, 2021, at 0:42:52

In reply to Re: Neuroleptic weight gain dose dependend? Linearly?, posted by Lamdage22 on January 7, 2021, at 0:28:17

I believe in the least wrong medication. And I think that that is my regimen.

 

Re: Neuroleptic weight gain dose dependend? Linearly?

Posted by undopaminergic on January 7, 2021, at 3:04:06

In reply to Re: Neuroleptic weight gain dose dependend? Linearly?, posted by Lamdage22 on January 7, 2021, at 0:23:40

> "The right medications" often don't exist.

"Perfect" medications usually don't exist. My depression is more treatment-resistant than most, and I've still tried several drugs that helped, substantially, but not completely. And I have yet to try an unselective MAOI.

> I think it is more error than anything else.

Yes, it's more error than success, if you're treatment-resistant. All error? No, I think you just haven't had enough trial if that is the case. Even you seem to have found reason to take a few medications. There are people who have found less than you.

> No I haven't even considered that because I value sex and I get depressed if I don't have it. (Even if it is just by myself).
>

Are you saying trimipramine has adverse effects on sexual function? News to me!

-undopaminergic

 

Re: Neuroleptic weight gain dose dependend? Linearly?

Posted by undopaminergic on January 7, 2021, at 3:06:59

In reply to Re: Neuroleptic weight gain dose dependend? Linearly?, posted by Lamdage22 on January 7, 2021, at 0:28:17

> I don't have this unshakable belief in "the right medication".
>

Well, who has?

-undopaminergic

 

Re: Neuroleptic weight gain dose dependend? Linearly?

Posted by Lamdage22 on January 7, 2021, at 3:25:54

In reply to Re: Neuroleptic weight gain dose dependend? Linearly?, posted by undopaminergic on January 7, 2021, at 3:04:06

Are you taking them now? It may land you in the loony bin.

> I've still tried several drugs that helped, substantially, but not completely. And I have yet to try an unselective MAOI.

That is crazy.

> No, I think you just haven't had enough trial if that is the case. Even you seem to have found reason to take a few medications.

Found? The need to take them stems from previous medication.

There are people who have found less than you.

I am.

> Are you saying trimipramine has adverse effects on sexual function? News to me!
>
> -undopaminergic
>

 

Re: Neuroleptic weight gain dose dependend? Linearly?

Posted by Lamdage22 on January 7, 2021, at 3:33:26

In reply to Re: Neuroleptic weight gain dose dependend? Linearly?, posted by Lamdage22 on January 7, 2021, at 3:25:54

I wasnt searching, so I havent found anything except the first drug I took: Nardil

 

Re: Neuroleptic weight gain dose dependend? Linearly?

Posted by Lamdage22 on January 7, 2021, at 3:35:44

In reply to Re: Neuroleptic weight gain dose dependend? Linearly?, posted by Lamdage22 on January 7, 2021, at 3:33:26

What I have found is distress, stigma and humiliation.

 

Re: Neuroleptic weight gain dose dependend? Linearly?

Posted by Lamdage22 on January 7, 2021, at 3:43:31

In reply to Re: Neuroleptic weight gain dose dependend? Linearly?, posted by Lamdage22 on January 7, 2021, at 3:35:44

Back to topic please! I am not asking for new drugs here at all!

 

Re: Neuroleptic weight gain dose dependend? Linearly?

Posted by undopaminergic on January 7, 2021, at 5:10:30

In reply to Re: Neuroleptic weight gain dose dependend? Linearly?, posted by Lamdage22 on January 7, 2021, at 3:25:54

I don't want to come off as difficult, but do you know you are difficult to read when you're responding in reverse order? The convention most of us are used to is to quote first and then reply below; alternatively, to type your whole reply at the top and quote the whole message below.

> > I've still tried several drugs that helped, substantially, but not completely. And I have yet to try an unselective MAOI.
>
> Are you taking them now? It may land you in the loony bin.

I'm taking the one I discovered most recently, trimipramine. I'm also on sulpiride, but that is pointless because it lost its stimulant effect. The others, well, no, but I certainly want to be on some of them, especially the combo methylphenidate+buprenorphine; as you can imagine, it's hard to get a prescription for these.

As for drugs that can get you hospitalised, there is memantine and another NMDA-antagonist, methoxetamine. Memantine feels great when at its best, but it makes you manic, and that doesn't end well.

> > No, I think you just haven't had enough trial if that is the case.
>
> That is crazy.

Is it? Let's say you try every centrally active medication clinically available. That's hundreds. Do you really think none of them would help at all? I think that is only in theory.

> > Even you seem to have found reason to take a few medications.
>
> Found? The need to take them stems from previous medication.

But you had a reason to try the previous medication, right? If I recall correctly, it even worked for you until it went sour.

> There are people who have found less than you.

Certainly. There are people who resort to psychosurgery (deep brain stimulation). Many more kill themselves.

> > Are you saying trimipramine has adverse effects on sexual function? News to me!
> >
>
> I am.

OK. There are numerous potential side effects of most medications. No-one gets all of them. But you know that.

-undopaminergic

 

Re: Neuroleptic weight gain dose dependend? Linearly?

Posted by undopaminergic on January 7, 2021, at 5:23:37

In reply to Re: Neuroleptic weight gain dose dependend? Linearly?, posted by Lamdage22 on January 7, 2021, at 3:33:26

> I wasnt searching, so I havent found anything except the first drug I took: Nardil
>

Right. I understand you regret it in retrospect, but at the time, you couldn't know what would happen further down the line, and it was a reasonable option. Fortunately, your experience is most unusual, and there are fewer people who get to try Nardil than there should be. I mean there are more people who die from not being given Nardil, than there are people who get psychosis from using it.

-undopaminergic

 

Re: Neuroleptic weight gain dose dependend? Linearly?

Posted by Lamdage22 on January 7, 2021, at 5:24:29

In reply to Re: Neuroleptic weight gain dose dependend? Linearly?, posted by undopaminergic on January 7, 2021, at 5:10:30

> Do you really think none of them would help at all? I think that is only in theory.

No, I think you will take so much damage in the process that the helpful med (once and if you find it) will not make up for!
>
> But you had a reason to try the previous medication, right? If I recall correctly, it even worked for you until it went sour.

I could have done extensive bloodwork and orthomolecular instead. It worked at a certain time for a certain symptom (depression). Overall it was devastating though.

> OK. There are numerous potential side effects of most medications. No-one gets all of them. But you know that.

I tried Nortriptyline and I asked my psychiatrist if the other Tricyclics kill sex, too, he said yes. I have researched TCAs that don't, but I decided not to take for other reasons.

Like I said, if it replaces Depression with something equally or more devastating, I am not interested. A med can "work" and still not help because it f*cks you up with other symptoms.


 

Re: Neuroleptic weight gain dose dependend? Linearly?

Posted by undopaminergic on January 7, 2021, at 5:26:58

In reply to Re: Neuroleptic weight gain dose dependend? Linearly?, posted by Lamdage22 on January 7, 2021, at 3:35:44

> What I have found is distress, stigma and humiliation.

But I imagine you were already in distress by the time you tried Nardil? I don't know about the other two without further detail.

-undopaminergic

 

Re: Neuroleptic weight gain dose dependend? Linearly?

Posted by Lamdage22 on January 7, 2021, at 5:40:32

In reply to Re: Neuroleptic weight gain dose dependend? Linearly?, posted by Lamdage22 on January 7, 2021, at 5:24:29

This discussion is ended. Good luck with all that!

 

Re: Neuroleptic weight gain dose dependend? Linearly?

Posted by undopaminergic on January 7, 2021, at 5:41:20

In reply to Re: Neuroleptic weight gain dose dependend? Linearly?, posted by Lamdage22 on January 7, 2021, at 3:43:31

> Back to topic please! I am not asking for new drugs here at all!

Exchanging the offending drug for another one, at least in part, is a valid option in the situation you describe. There are many medications that offer more units of antipsychotic action per unit of weight gain induction.

Note that another option is adding a drug such as amphetamine to help with weight loss, but I didn't mention this, because it seemed inappropriate in your situation.

Another option is simply to reduce the dose of the offending drug, but you say psychosis gets worse if you go too fast.

The final option I can think of is to eat less and exercise more. Probably this is the healthiest approach, and it is certain to work if you have the self-discipline needed to do it successfully.

Other than the above, I don't know what you can do.

-undopaminergic

 

Re: Neuroleptic weight gain dose dependend? Linearly?

Posted by undopaminergic on January 7, 2021, at 5:49:34

In reply to Re: Neuroleptic weight gain dose dependend? Linearly?, posted by Lamdage22 on January 7, 2021, at 5:24:29

OK, so your point is that the cure mustn't be worse than the disease?

Of course I can agree on that. I've personally never had to quit a working treatment due to side effects. I know I am fortunate, but I also don't think the problem is, on average, as common as you seem to be suggesting.

-undopaminergic

 

Re: Neuroleptic weight gain dose dependend? Linearly?

Posted by Lamdage22 on January 7, 2021, at 8:04:05

In reply to Re: Neuroleptic weight gain dose dependend? Linearly?, posted by undopaminergic on January 7, 2021, at 5:49:34

Im just saying that we need drugs with which people are actually better off than without them. Anf we need to take ALL the effects into account, not just the wanted effects.

Then we need drugs that are safer to try, so that you can try many without suffering any damage, so that by the time you find your drug, you are better off than if you had never tried meds.

If 8 out of 10 meds are a total shitshow, you are going to suffer damage if you try them.

I did say that this applies to me, I didnt say it applies to everyone. Im not the only one though.

 

Re: Neuroleptic weight gain dose dependend? Linearly?

Posted by Lamdage22 on January 7, 2021, at 8:06:57

In reply to Re: Neuroleptic weight gain dose dependend? Linearly?, posted by undopaminergic on January 7, 2021, at 5:41:20

I can reduce one of the offending drugs, it will just take 1-2 years. Lifestyle, Nutrition and Workouts can be done, too.


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