Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 1112870

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Non-hallucinogenic ibogaine tested for depression

Posted by Hugh on December 10, 2020, at 12:32:26

A chemically tweaked version of the psychedelic drug ibogaine appears to relieve depression and addiction symptoms without producing hallucinations or other dangerous side effects.

The results of a study in rodents suggest it may be possible to make psychedelic drugs safe enough to become mainstream treatments for psychiatric disorders, the authors report Wednesday in the journal Nature.

"What we need is a medicine that is so safe that you can take it home and put it in your medicine cabinet just like you would aspirin," says David Olson, the paper's senior author and an assistant professor at the University of California, Davis. "And that's really what we were trying to achieve."

For decades, psychedelic drugs, including ketamine and psilocybin, have shown promise in treating people with mental health problems including addiction, depression and post-traumatic stress disorder. But doctors and researchers have been wary of using the drugs because of their side effects.

[I]bogaine, which comes from the roots of a West African shrub, also has great potential, Olson says. Small studies have suggested it can dramatically reduce drug cravings and withdrawal symptoms.

The team started by giving the ibogaine molecule some nips and tucks.

"We lopped off the parts of the structure that gave rise to a lot of the deleterious effects," he says, "and we left the part of the structure intact that still was able to have anti-addictive and antidepressant properties."

These changes resulted in a substance that was not only safer, but easier to manufacture. The scientists named their creation tabernanthalog, or TBG.

The team began testing TBG in rodents, including some mice raised to binge on alcohol. "Every single animal in the experiment reduced their consumption of alcohol, which was really, really surprising," Olson says.

TBG also helped rats that had been addicted to heroin. Usually, these rats relapse in response to light or sound cues they've been taught to associate with the drug. But rats given TBG were much less likely to relapse.

Finally, the team tested TBG on mice with behaviors associated with depression. Those symptoms improved.

None of the animals given TBG experienced heart problems or behaviors associated with hallucination.

Olson, who has a financial stake in TBG, says drugs based on psychedelic substances have great potential because they work in a different way than most conventional drug treatments.

"They don't mask disease symptoms," he says. "They're really designed to try to rewire the brain."

Complete article and radio report:

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/12/09/944572325/progress-toward-a-safer-psychedelic-drug-to-treat-depression-and-addiction

 

Re: Non-hallucinogenic ibogaine tested for depression

Posted by Lamdage22 on December 10, 2020, at 14:41:09

In reply to Non-hallucinogenic ibogaine tested for depression, posted by Hugh on December 10, 2020, at 12:32:26

Amazing. Thanks for sharing.

 

Re: Non-hallucinogenic ibogaine tested for depression

Posted by linkadge on December 10, 2020, at 15:05:10

In reply to Re: Non-hallucinogenic ibogaine tested for depression, posted by Lamdage22 on December 10, 2020, at 14:41:09

I'd personally stick with the hallucinogenic version :)

Linkadge

 

Re: Non-hallucinogenic ibogaine tested for depression Lamdage22

Posted by Hugh on December 11, 2020, at 12:12:12

In reply to Re: Non-hallucinogenic ibogaine tested for depression, posted by Lamdage22 on December 10, 2020, at 14:41:09

You're welcome. A lot of people, such as those who suffer from bipolar disorder or schizophrenia, would be wary of trying a hallucinogen. For them, non-hallucinogenic ibogaine could be a game changer.

> Amazing. Thanks for sharing.

 

Re: Non-hallucinogenic ibogaine tested for depression

Posted by Lamdage22 on December 11, 2020, at 13:09:51

In reply to Re: Non-hallucinogenic ibogaine tested for depression Lamdage22, posted by Hugh on December 11, 2020, at 12:12:12

I was actually booked for an Iboga experience. A concerned friend kept me from doing it.

> You're welcome. A lot of people, such as those who suffer from bipolar disorder or schizophrenia, would be wary of trying a hallucinogen. For them, non-hallucinogenic ibogaine could be a game changer.
>
> > Amazing. Thanks for sharing.
>
>

 

Re: Non-hallucinogenic ibogaine tested for depression linkadge

Posted by Hugh on December 11, 2020, at 14:15:17

In reply to Re: Non-hallucinogenic ibogaine tested for depression, posted by linkadge on December 10, 2020, at 15:05:10

Some hallucinogens could be headed your way in the near future, since you're in Canada.

https://numinus.ca/


> I'd personally stick with the hallucinogenic version :)
>
> Linkadge

 

Re: Non-hallucinogenic ibogaine tested for depression Hugh

Posted by linkadge on December 11, 2020, at 19:28:24

In reply to Re: Non-hallucinogenic ibogaine tested for depression linkadge, posted by Hugh on December 11, 2020, at 14:15:17

I wonder if the neurotrophic effect of all psychedelics can be fully replicated by a non-psychedelic. Iboga might be unique in that some of its actions are via the sigma receptors. However, I do recall reading that the neurotrophic effect of psilocybin are partially blocked by 5-h2 antagonists (which would probably also abort the psychedelic effects).

I find that certain strains of marijuanna can lift my depression, for a few days. However, for this to happen I need to get to a state where I feel a 'hyperreality'. It's hard to describe, but it is like I am in tune with a reality beyond normal and that I start to get insights (into my suffering) that are only what somebody outside myself could identify.

I also start to feel a better integration of my senses and different parts of my brain. For example, I am of the belief that depression can sometimes result from lack of communication from different regions of the brain. For example, there may be desires that are repressed, or hopelessness that needs to be challenged. Marijuana seems to help me confront my fears in a way that is not overwhelming. Like I can process ('see') the fears and reframe them in a more positive light.

Sometimes when I get depressed, I feel completely overwhelmed, and my brain shuts down to avoid having to process painful thoughts. It feels like weed is opening a window, where I can see the negative thoughts, and process them without feeling them.

There is a Scottish lady who has a rare genetic variant leading to reduced FAAH expression (FAAH breaks down endocannabinoids). This leads to higher levels of endocannabinoids. She reports feeling almost no pain and no anxiety.

Linkadge

 

Re: Non-hallucinogenic ibogaine tested for depression linkadge

Posted by Hugh on December 13, 2020, at 14:20:21

In reply to Re: Non-hallucinogenic ibogaine tested for depression Hugh, posted by linkadge on December 11, 2020, at 19:28:24

> I wonder if the neurotrophic effect of all psychedelics can be fully replicated by a non-psychedelic.

I've wondered about that myself. I hope to be able to compare them one of these days. And I'd like to try virtual reality psychedelic experiences.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/mar/26/acid-test-how-psychedelic-virtual-reality-can-end-societys-mass-bad-trip

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/2045125320948356

I just read a fascinating book called VRx: How Virtual Therapeutics Will Revolutionize Medicine. It's by Brennan Spiegel, director of the virtual reality therapy program at Cedars-Sinai in Los Angeles. They've treated over 3,000 patients with VR, mostly for pain and/or anxiety, and have been getting good results.

 

Re: Non-hallucinogenic ibogaine tested for depression linkadge

Posted by Hugh on December 18, 2020, at 11:59:31

In reply to Re: Non-hallucinogenic ibogaine tested for depression Hugh, posted by linkadge on December 11, 2020, at 19:28:24

> There is a Scottish lady who has a rare genetic variant leading to reduced FAAH expression (FAAH breaks down endocannabinoids). This leads to higher levels of endocannabinoids. She reports feeling almost no pain and no anxiety.

Metabolomic analysis reveals that recipient mice developed an altered fatty acid metabolism characterized by deficits in lipid precursors for eCBs [endocannabinoids], which resulted in impaired activity of the eCB system in the brain. Increase of the eCB levels after pharmacological blocking of the eCB degrading enzymes, or complementation of the diet with arachidonic acid (AA), a precursor of eCBs, is sufficient to alleviate both the microbiota-induced depressive-like behaviors and hippocampal neurogenesis impairments in recipient mice.

Complete article:

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-19931-2

Arachidonic acid is available from Amazon. It's popular with bodybuilders.

 

Re: Non-hallucinogenic ibogaine tested for depression

Posted by linkadge on December 18, 2020, at 13:59:05

In reply to Re: Non-hallucinogenic ibogaine tested for depression linkadge, posted by Hugh on December 18, 2020, at 11:59:31

Very interesting.

I would say that most of my symptoms have been controlled by a combination of medical marijuanna, cocoa, nutmeg, black pepper, oleamide and maca.


Linkadge

 

Re: Non-hallucinogenic ibogaine tested for depression linkadge

Posted by sigismund on December 18, 2020, at 21:47:10

In reply to Re: Non-hallucinogenic ibogaine tested for depression, posted by linkadge on December 18, 2020, at 13:59:05

What do you think oleamide?

 

Re: Non-hallucinogenic ibogaine tested for depression

Posted by Lamdage22 on December 21, 2020, at 2:45:56

In reply to Re: Non-hallucinogenic ibogaine tested for depression linkadge, posted by Hugh on December 18, 2020, at 11:59:31

Arachidonic Acid can be pro inflammatory? I often read that people want to reduce it in their diets. Also read it helps bodybuilding. Probably it supports damage in muscle tissue through the pro inflammatory pathway and more damage= more repairing afterward = more gains.

Other than that it sounds interesting. Any more insights on this? This is mostly why I read the meds board. The topic sometimes goes toward alternative treatments.

 

Re: Non-hallucinogenic ibogaine tested for depression

Posted by linkadge on December 21, 2020, at 18:04:12

In reply to Re: Non-hallucinogenic ibogaine tested for depression linkadge, posted by sigismund on December 18, 2020, at 21:47:10

The effects of oleamide are noticeable but milder than cannabis. It seems to be a bit more sedative. I use it occasionally in rotation with the others. The effects are more pronounced with FAAH inhibition like MACA.

Linkadge

 

Re: ibogaine..for depression and addiction..to all

Posted by jay2112 on December 21, 2020, at 22:08:17

In reply to Non-hallucinogenic ibogaine tested for depression, posted by Hugh on December 10, 2020, at 12:32:26

This is another drug I have been considering for my depression and addiction. Only problem is, I have a MAJOR problem with dissociation. Does this drug, a psychedelic, cause problems with that? Anyone..??

 

Re: ibogaine..for depression and addiction..to all

Posted by linkadge on December 22, 2020, at 17:41:04

In reply to Re: ibogaine..for depression and addiction..to all, posted by jay2112 on December 21, 2020, at 22:08:17

If you're suffering dissociation, then one would need to be very careful using a psychedelic.

Linkadge

 

Re: ibogaine..for depression and addiction..to all

Posted by sigismund on December 22, 2020, at 19:55:39

In reply to Re: ibogaine..for depression and addiction..to all, posted by linkadge on December 22, 2020, at 17:41:04

FWIW I have never felt dissociated on psychedelics. Frightened, panicky......but always clear.

Benzos may perhaps blur boundaries and over time make dissociation worse.

 

Re: ibogaine..for depression and addiction..to all

Posted by linkadge on December 24, 2020, at 16:05:04

In reply to Re: ibogaine..for depression and addiction..to all, posted by sigismund on December 22, 2020, at 19:55:39

Yeah, dissociation can be hard to define. According to webMD

"Dissociation is a break in how your mind handles information. You may feel disconnected from your thoughts, feelings, memories, and surroundings. It can affect your sense of identity and your perception of time. The symptoms often go away on their own."

Weed, and anticholinergics can certainly make me feel disconnected. Only occasionally, will weed make me actually feel out of body. I.e. that I am disconnecting from my body. I have not used any classic hallucinogens so I cannot comment on them. However, on certain strains of weed I can get some experiences that certainly fit the psychedellic description.


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