Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 1110736

Shown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

Why GABA works

Posted by linkadge on June 14, 2020, at 15:44:21

Although GABA purportedly does not cross the blood brain barrier (BBB), I have come up with a few explanations for why it works.

1) Gut bacteria can convert GABA into ketones which do cross the BBB and affect mood

2) Immune cells in the blood have gaba receptors which, when activated, systemic inflammation. These inflammatory mediators can pass from the blood to the brain. Hence, reducing systemic inflammation may, in turn, decrease brain inflammation.

Again, these are just theories, but may in part explain why so many people report that GABA does have an effect.

Linkadge

 

Re: Why GABA works

Posted by sigismund on June 15, 2020, at 0:35:09

In reply to Why GABA works, posted by linkadge on June 14, 2020, at 15:44:21

Yes, it certainly has some effect for me.

 

Re: Why GABA works sigismund

Posted by ed_uk2010 on June 15, 2020, at 12:48:37

In reply to Re: Why GABA works, posted by sigismund on June 15, 2020, at 0:35:09

What sort of effect Sigi?

 

Re: Why GABA works ed_uk2010

Posted by sigismund on June 15, 2020, at 16:01:16

In reply to Re: Why GABA works sigismund, posted by ed_uk2010 on June 15, 2020, at 12:48:37

Hi Eddy......well calming....though I wonder if having all that GABA outside the brain can be good. My system is tolerant to GABA type drugs too.

 

Re: Why GABA works

Posted by rjlockhart37 on June 16, 2020, at 0:49:58

In reply to Re: Why GABA works ed_uk2010, posted by sigismund on June 15, 2020, at 16:01:16

I took phenibut so long for a period and had to increase the dose, my god when suddently stopped taking, hell broke lose, gaba levels were non-existant, insomnia, adrenaline, crazed state.

Still im having GABA issues, and I actually have to take the supplement GABA (health food stores) about 1000mg for diazepam to work. It really sucks, and im having to deal with this right now. They can become degraded, if repeated phenibut or excessive GABA just like wearing down dopamine levels. Terrible time for me. Sometimes I even have to take phenibut with diazepam. To work. I'm keeping it discreet, I texted my doctor, she never awnsers any texts, mostly ignores issues. For a while, I

'm thinking check myself into a state hospital, terrel state hospital in texas, its haunted has a grave yard, and I heard mixed reviews about it, some say it was polite and nice. Other stores of horror stories of people who are lovked up, and they are abused, and drugged up so much. I went out to Terrel one time, they asked me if I was crazy because there were plenty of hospitals to go too, reason I went out there was because of that traumatic time they rip me off everything. But I got really afraid, because, Terrell is serious cases, they could keep me for a long time. It's a hospital, but I backed off after seeing guards everywhere. The psychiatrist inciated or she told me to get social program help, that I was in a shape to get help by social programs. They were gonna keep me, but I got all this fear inside, and just said I was fine.

but state hospital is funded by the state, so it ecomincally would be good. But....I've just read, its an old very old hospital, I've heard mixed reivews, some very bad. But if I went out there and told them what was happening, yeah they would defiantly keep me, but then phenibut withdrawl would be hell, even with benzodiapines, because the GABA levels, I have to take GABA supplement to restore the levels. If I went to state hospital, they would take me off Prozac, and nuvigil, and use excessive tranquilizers. But at this point, I don't know what to do.

 

Re: Why GABA works

Posted by rjlockhart37 on June 16, 2020, at 1:06:31

In reply to Re: Why GABA works, posted by rjlockhart37 on June 16, 2020, at 0:49:58

just have to say this, most people who take, phenibut, they take 500-1000mg, and very many people do that. And that's why its considered not a harm, to drug administration, but when you have severe anxiety, and the doctor will not do anything, that was my only option, I was taking doses, and I have to say....it does make anxiety go away, sometimes even better than diazepam. It shouldn't have a bad name, because there are plenty of other nootropics, that if you took large doses, you would have same effect.

Thea reason, was my doctor was ignoring me telling her about severe anxiety, they just blew it off and set have coping skills. So phenibut was a god send, for those times, thank goodness it's allowed, because it got me through severe anxiety times. But over time, years, your GABA kinda adapts, just like taking a barbiturate, like secobarbital - they say its effective for about 2-4 weeks, and then it becomes ineffective, or doenst put you sleep as well. Secobarbital - the sleeping barbiturate, yes you can take it for a while, but they have written over cases, that it becomes ineffective after about a month. You adapt to it, that's why. All of this, could of not happened, but screw that medical treatment, all they do is anayze, say keep you at the same dose, bye bye see in 6 months, addiction doctor, more enabling to let their patients do more drugs, probably would care either and just discharge you. Sooner im away from them, the better, rehabs are automated systems for me, I know how the program works, its like going car wash, then let go. I know what to say, say im getting better, just lie about it, to let them release me

Anwayas, ill get through this, I've had some insomnia. But survial mode, can happen, and just prayer through jesus Christ to be healed. But that's all I have to say, I had to get this out.

 

Re: Why GABA works

Posted by rjlockhart37 on June 16, 2020, at 1:42:25

In reply to Re: Why GABA works, posted by rjlockhart37 on June 16, 2020, at 1:06:31

sorry about plugin up the post with too much drama, but yes in some people GABA does work, esically if they have a leaky blood brain barrier. But for the most part, GABA just mildy calms people down. I'm going through a hard time right now, that's why I plugged all this up with explantions

 

Re: Why GABA works

Posted by linkadge on June 16, 2020, at 8:07:26

In reply to Re: Why GABA works, posted by rjlockhart37 on June 16, 2020, at 1:42:25

It was shown fairly recently that phenibut actually works very similarly to gabapentin and pregabalin.

It is actually only a very weak gaba-b agonist. However, it has much stronger effects on the 'gabapentinoid' receptors a subtype of calcium channels.

However, I agree the withdrawal from phenibut is pretty bad.

Linkadge

 

Re: Why GABA works

Posted by undopaminergic on June 17, 2020, at 3:18:58

In reply to Re: Why GABA works, posted by linkadge on June 16, 2020, at 8:07:26

> It was shown fairly recently that phenibut actually works very similarly to gabapentin and pregabalin.
>
> It is actually only a very weak gaba-b agonist.

A comparison with baclofen would be interesting.

> However, it has much stronger effects on the 'gabapentinoid' receptors a subtype of calcium channels.
>
> However, I agree the withdrawal from phenibut is pretty bad.
>

Zero effect, zero withdrawal for me.

-undopaminergic

 

Re: Why GABA works

Posted by Lamdage22 on June 17, 2020, at 13:48:35

In reply to Re: Why GABA works, posted by undopaminergic on June 17, 2020, at 3:18:58

Does GABA increase human growth hormone? I heard that rumor. If it did, that would be pretty cool.

 

Re: Why GABA works sigismund

Posted by ed_uk2010 on June 18, 2020, at 10:58:23

In reply to Re: Why GABA works ed_uk2010, posted by sigismund on June 15, 2020, at 16:01:16

> Hi Eddy......well calming....though I wonder if having all that GABA outside the brain can be good. My system is tolerant to GABA type drugs too.

Curious Sigi!

 

Re: Why GABA works ed_uk2010

Posted by sigismund on June 18, 2020, at 18:28:38

In reply to Re: Why GABA works sigismund, posted by ed_uk2010 on June 18, 2020, at 10:58:23

It's not strong but is quite real.

 

Re: Why GABA works

Posted by linkadge on June 19, 2020, at 15:04:34

In reply to Re: Why GABA works ed_uk2010, posted by sigismund on June 18, 2020, at 18:28:38

I've read that GABA can suppress liver tumor cell growth via activation of GABA-A receptors. But you're right. Who knows the implications of flooding the system with a single amino acid.

I definitely notice a muscle relaxant effect of GABA (which can help with anxiety). I don't know if this is due to peripheral effects or central effects.

Linkadge

 

Re: Why GABA works

Posted by undopaminergic on June 20, 2020, at 5:29:46

In reply to Re: Why GABA works, posted by linkadge on June 19, 2020, at 15:04:34

> I've read that GABA can suppress liver tumor cell growth via activation of GABA-A receptors. But you're right. Who knows the implications of flooding the system with a single amino acid.
>
> I definitely notice a muscle relaxant effect of GABA (which can help with anxiety). I don't know if this is due to peripheral effects or central effects.
>
> Linkadge
>

Central, I'm pretty sure.

Anticholinergic agents (like atropine or scopolamine) on the other hand work as peripheral muscle relaxants, and can serve as an antidote to poisoning from acetylcholinesterase inhibitors (certain nerve gases and pesticides, and medications eg. galanthamine and donepezil) that induce muscle cramping.

I found your post about hypercholinergia interesting. I've been wondering if I suffer from it too. I recall reading about a "hypercholinergic mouse model of depression", but I must be mistaken, because I can find it now. I think this warrants a thread of its own.

-undopaminergic

 

Re: Why GABA works undopaminergic

Posted by linkadge on June 21, 2020, at 8:25:41

In reply to Re: Why GABA works, posted by undopaminergic on June 20, 2020, at 5:29:46

This hypothesis has been around for a while. Originally the anticholinergic properties of TCAs were thought to be side effects. More recently (with the confirmation of the antidepressant effect of scopolamine) it is apparent that blocking acetylcholine can itself have antidepressant properties. For example, mice lacking m1 and/or m2 receptors are a 'depression resistant' phenotype. Modulating acetylcholine can produce many of the sleep changes associated with depression (i.e. early entry in to REM sleep and increased REM duration). Increased REM may contribute to (or be the consequence of) increased emotional processing. There are some that theorize that even SSRIs work by modulating acetylcholine levels (in the form of increased cholinesterase expression over time).

https://www.bbrfoundation.org/content/potential-root-cause-depression-discovered-narsad-grantee

In animal models, increasing stress leads to an increased sensitivity of muscarinic receptors. This may be an adaptive mechanism (i.e. increased cholinergic output to try and understand / process the stressor). The 'flinders sensitive line' of mice also appears to be supersensitive to acetylcholine. Acetylcholine agonists (and cholinsterase inhibitors) can result in depression. They may also be anti-manic (by reducing dopamine release). Farmers that routinely apply cholinesterase inhibiting pesticides are at greater risk of depression.

Increasing monoamines, can counteract the effects of high acetylcholine, so it may be more of a complimentary theory. As you mention too, cholinergic agonists can be convulsant / produce muscle tension (and anticholinergics can block this). For me, depression is when my thinking becomes trapped. I tend to overthink, and/or think way too 'big picture'. The future seems hopeless and and cannot find any moments of peace. I bough some belladonna extract (tincture). You have to be VERY careful with this stuff. ONE drop needs to be diluted!! But, basically if I get to a place where I simply become incapacitated, I use this. It seems to dramatically reduce the 'emotional overtone', to where I return to being 'here'.

I sometimes use it with marijuanna (which too can be anticholinergic), but again, you need to be very careful. You can get very try mouth and tachycardia.

Linkadge


 

Re: Why GABA works

Posted by undopaminergic on June 22, 2020, at 0:56:17

In reply to Re: Why GABA works undopaminergic, posted by linkadge on June 21, 2020, at 8:25:41

> This hypothesis has been around for a while. Originally the anticholinergic properties of TCAs were thought to be side effects. More recently (with the confirmation of the antidepressant effect of scopolamine) it is apparent that blocking acetylcholine can itself have antidepressant properties.
>

Right. This could be part of the antidepressant mechanism of trimipramine (which I'm currently using).

On another note, have you looked into central histamine H2-receptor modulators? Trimipramine is an antagonist. Another antagonist, famotidine, has shown promise for the treatment of negative symptoms of schizophrenia. Therefore, this class of drugs could treat the same symptoms in depression or parkinsonism.

> In animal models, increasing stress leads to an increased sensitivity of muscarinic receptors. This may be an adaptive mechanism (i.e. increased cholinergic output to try and understand / process the stressor). The 'flinders sensitive line' of mice also appears to be supersensitive to acetylcholine.
>

Rats. I think that is what I seem to be (mis)remembering. Maybe this very article:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15857718/
Title: "Blunted Response to Cocaine in the Flinders Hypercholinergic Animal Model of Depression"
Note that the article doesn't seem particularly interesting.

> They may also be anti-manic (by reducing dopamine release).

That is interesting.

> For me, depression is when my thinking becomes trapped. I tend to overthink, and/or think way too 'big picture'. The future seems hopeless and and cannot find any moments of peace.
>

Have you tried meditation?

> I bough some belladonna extract (tincture). You have to be VERY careful with this stuff. ONE drop needs to be diluted!! But, basically if I get to a place where I simply become incapacitated, I use this. It seems to dramatically reduce the 'emotional overtone', to where I return to being 'here'.
>
> I sometimes use it with marijuanna (which too can be anticholinergic), but again, you need to be very careful. You can get very try mouth and tachycardia.
>

With higher doses, you can also get a delirious trip, which is very realistic. The experiences (trip reports) on Erowid are interesting.

-undopaminergic

 

Re: Why GABA works

Posted by alchemy on June 22, 2020, at 20:08:14

In reply to Re: Why GABA works, posted by undopaminergic on June 22, 2020, at 0:56:17

Has anyone been successful taking the supplement long term? I've read Amazon experiences and it makes me weary. Something is wrong with my GABA (over simplified). I feel some happiness with alcohol (don't drink anymore) and ambien. The more I study the body, the more complicated it gets. Some of my notes:

GABRB2 (one of the GABA genes): A receptor is a multisubunit chloride channel that mediates the fastest inhibitory synaptic transmission in the central nervous system. Functions also as histamine receptor and mediates cellular responses to histamine (By similarity). Decrease IL8 secretion?

Clinical depression can sometimes be caused by hypothyroidism.[54] Some research[55] has shown that T3 is found in the junctions of synapses, and regulates the amounts and activity of serotonin, norepinephrine, and GABA in the brain.

We also identified genes with associated medications which, although not aimed at treating depression, may provide unpredicted drug benefits or adverse effects for those with the disorder. The Neuregulin 1 (NRG1) receptor ErbB4, found on GABAergic neurones, has been identified as a potentially druggable target for depression, anxiety and schizophrenia.

Related to the gut - LPS also inhibits the activity of GABA and GLT-1/EAAT2 in the central nervous system (CNS), thus causing problems with glutamate-induced excitotoxicity.

Ligand-gated ion channels are likely to be the major site at which anaesthetic agents and ethanol have their effects...In particular, the GABA and NMDA receptors are affected by anaesthetic agents at concentrations similar to those used in clinical anaesthesia.

Some SNPs in the GABRA2 gene has been linked to Alcoholism.

 

Re: Why GABA works alchemy

Posted by linkadge on June 26, 2020, at 16:46:23

In reply to Re: Why GABA works, posted by alchemy on June 22, 2020, at 20:08:14

I wouldn't be surprised if MANY mood disorders are caused by some alterations in specific gaba receptors. The problem is that many gaba meds are nonspecific.

Linkadge


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