Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 1110649

Shown: posts 1 to 19 of 19. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

How Come More People aren't Doing TMS!

Posted by PCB on June 11, 2020, at 14:34:57

Hey Everyone! Many of us are Treatment Resistant. How come more people here are not doing TMS?

Thanks for you response in advance!

 

Re: How Come More People aren't Doing TMS! PCB

Posted by Skeletor on June 12, 2020, at 3:36:32

In reply to How Come More People aren't Doing TMS!, posted by PCB on June 11, 2020, at 14:34:57

It's a scam.

 

Re: How Come More People aren't Doing TMS!

Posted by PCB on June 12, 2020, at 5:38:14

In reply to Re: How Come More People aren't Doing TMS! PCB, posted by Skeletor on June 12, 2020, at 3:36:32

> It's a scam.

You know the data about TMS is just mediocre. When I postponed last time, the doc called me every 3 weeks about coming back. I have never had a successful doc call me that often. And when I was feeling worse at 1 week, she said it couldnt be TMS and she said I needed TMS to get better. The office is usually empty and the few people I ask if it helping in the waiting are say a little. Im not sure about this

 

Re: How Come More People aren't Doing TMS! Skeletor

Posted by linkadge on June 12, 2020, at 7:10:29

In reply to Re: How Come More People aren't Doing TMS! PCB, posted by Skeletor on June 12, 2020, at 3:36:32

It's definitely not a scam.

I would say that access to the treatment is definitely a challenge. Also cost is a factor. I don't know how insurance coverage is for this.

If I had complete access to treatments, I would first try ketamine, then TMS, then ECT.

Linkadge

 

Re: How Come More People aren't Doing TMS!

Posted by linkadge on June 12, 2020, at 7:13:43

In reply to Re: How Come More People aren't Doing TMS!, posted by PCB on June 12, 2020, at 5:38:14

The problem with TMS is that it's not rocket science.

For some depression, the prefrontal cortex is overactive. For others, it is underactive. For some, there is hemispheric asymmetry (one hemisphere is more active than the other) and vice versa.

I would imagine that future TMS would be paired with fMRI to see which regions would benefit from stimulation.

Linkadge

 

Re: How Come More People aren't Doing TMS!

Posted by PCB on June 12, 2020, at 8:13:32

In reply to Re: How Come More People aren't Doing TMS!, posted by linkadge on June 12, 2020, at 7:13:43

> The problem with TMS is that it's not rocket science.
>
> For some depression, the prefrontal cortex is overactive. For others, it is underactive. For some, there is hemispheric asymmetry (one hemisphere is more active than the other) and vice versa.
>
> I would imagine that future TMS would be paired with fMRI to see which regions would benefit from stimulation.
>
> Linkadge

Really good point Linkage. I wonder if also comes down to degree of illness. I was surprise to hear my mother and other people say when their depression is at its worst (like they come off an effective medication and try a newer newer medication with less side effects) it is hard and they have to hide their depression at work and with friends. Well first, when I am at my best, I have very few acquaintances. At my worse, I lose weight, bedridden with fatigue and anxiety, have leaded paralysis and my cognition drops tremendously.

So I wonder if it is the majority of patients with mild depression like my mother that a mild treatment like an SSRI or TMS helps. My father had bipolar and my mother is unipolar so I think thats is why I may only respond to big guns like MAOIs and ECT.

I apologized for canceling to the secretary and she said, "not to worry, people do it all the time. Things come up with weddings and vacations." Even at my best I struggle to go to weddings and vacations. How can this people with depression needing TMS which is for TRD be jetting off to weddings and vacations. I think once again it is the degree of depression. They might be mildly depressed, dysthemic or just experiencing adjustment disorder. I live in NYC, so I hear many "wallstreet banker" or "high end lawyer" have moments of stress due to there job, multimillion dollar homes, kids going to ivy league school and their doctors telling them they have major depression. The TMS staff tells me alot of these affluent people "stop by" once a month for a TMS treatment. That is an adjustment disorder, not major depression. And they deserve treatment and to be happy, but I think it skews the the studies results when these patients are included. Of course many of these patients are going to responds to TMS, SSRI, therapy. But what are the respond rates to patient like me whom have several neurovegative symptoms ... much lower I presume. SSRI, SNRI, lithium, depakate, etc have not put a dent in my depression. Only nardil and ECT ... and I thank god these medication are available.

Sorry I am being a whiner. But I agree these modalities probable work. I just wonder if they work for several neurovegative affect disorders.

 

Re: How Come More People aren't Doing TMS! PCB

Posted by SLS on June 12, 2020, at 10:39:03

In reply to How Come More People aren't Doing TMS!, posted by PCB on June 11, 2020, at 14:34:57

> Hey Everyone! Many of us are Treatment Resistant. How come more people here are not doing TMS?
>
> Thanks for you response in advance!

From what I've read, Deep TMS (dTMS) is substantially more effective than the original rTMS. As Linkdadge indicated, fMRI guided TMS is being looked at very closely. I would like to see the results of a using combination of dTMS and fMRI.


- Scott

 

Re: How Come More People aren't Doing TMS!

Posted by PCB on June 12, 2020, at 10:46:37

In reply to Re: How Come More People aren't Doing TMS! PCB, posted by SLS on June 12, 2020, at 10:39:03

> > Hey Everyone! Many of us are Treatment Resistant. How come more people here are not doing TMS?
> >
> > Thanks for you response in advance!
>
> From what I've read, Deep TMS (dTMS) is substantially more effective than the original rTMS.

My center has deep TMS but the tech said its hardly used due to seizure side effects.

>As Linkdadge indicated, fMRI guided TMS is being looked at >very closely. I would like to see the results of a using >combination of dTMS and fMRI.

Would be nice to have those tests first. But to save money, think my center just empirically starts left sided treatment and if anxiety appears or ??OCD they change to bilateral (right suppressive and left theta burst.

So SLS and linkage, why havent you done TMS? No need to answer, I sorry I know it personal.

Paul

 

Re: How Come More People aren't Doing TMS! PCB

Posted by SLS on June 12, 2020, at 11:52:46

In reply to Re: How Come More People aren't Doing TMS!, posted by PCB on June 12, 2020, at 10:46:37

> So SLS and linkage, why havent you done TMS? No need to answer, I sorry I know it personal.


I was never convinced that it was worth depleting my life savings for something that didn't have support as being uniquely superior to medication when treating TRD. I was close, though. If what I'm taking right now fails to continue to work, TMS will definitely be on my list.

You are better informed on TMS than I am.


- Scott

 

Re: How Come More People aren't Doing TMS! PCB

Posted by linkadge on June 12, 2020, at 11:58:04

In reply to Re: How Come More People aren't Doing TMS!, posted by PCB on June 12, 2020, at 8:13:32

Its difficult to say whether degree of illness is a factor. I read a study suggesting that TMS increased dopamine more than amphetamine. It can also induce a seizure if you're not careful. It certainly has an effect (I induced a borderline psychotic episode with the TMS device I built and used on myself - long story). I knew a patient that failed multiple antidepressants and ECT and was actively suicidal. They ultimately responded to a combination of SAMe and St. John's Wort. So go figure.

I think the issue is that one person's depression is not the same as another's. This includes severity (as you mention) but also perhaps the biochemistry and/or brain structures involved. If you had no thyroid, this could cause significant depression. Taking thyroid could alleviate the depression, even though it is not considered a first line antidepressant for people who are not low.

For some, SSRIs improve depression. For others, they worsen it. There really is no one 'depression' and there are many mysteries as to how or why medications work.

I hear what you are saying about severity, though. Drug companies have (in some ways) worked to 'normalize' depression. For example, according to the Trintellix commercial, depression is about wearing sweatpants and not wanting to do the laundry. If that's the case then sign 1/4 of Americans up for a prescription. It's hard to communicate to people that you have depression, when many people think that its a result of a bad hair day.

Linkadge

 

Re: How Come More People aren't Doing TMS!

Posted by linkadge on June 12, 2020, at 12:01:07

In reply to Re: How Come More People aren't Doing TMS!, posted by PCB on June 12, 2020, at 10:46:37

>So SLS and linkage, why havent you done TMS? No need to answer, I sorry I know it personal.

No worries. You can ask whatever you like.

I don't have insurance, and so paying $1000 + per session is simply not an option for me here in Canada. About 2 decades ago however, I built a TMS device and found it certainly had an effect. I'd consider rebuilding it, but it's along the lines of performing your own open heart surgery.

Linkadge

 

Re: How Come More People aren't Doing TMS!

Posted by undopaminergic on June 12, 2020, at 13:03:05

In reply to How Come More People aren't Doing TMS!, posted by PCB on June 11, 2020, at 14:34:57

> Hey Everyone! Many of us are Treatment Resistant. How come more people here are not doing TMS?
>

I was on a waiting list. Then something happened (including hospitalisation), and for some reason I was taken off.

-undopaminergic

 

Re: Doing TMS! Thank you! (nm) SLS

Posted by PCB on June 12, 2020, at 13:42:28

In reply to Re: How Come More People aren't Doing TMS! PCB, posted by SLS on June 12, 2020, at 11:52:46

 

Re: Doing TMS! Thank you! (nm) linkadge

Posted by PCB on June 12, 2020, at 13:43:33

In reply to Re: How Come More People aren't Doing TMS!, posted by linkadge on June 12, 2020, at 12:01:07

 

Re: Doing TMS! Thank you! - Good luck! (nm) PCB

Posted by SLS on June 12, 2020, at 15:11:58

In reply to Re: Doing TMS! Thank you! (nm) SLS, posted by PCB on June 12, 2020, at 13:42:28

 

Re: How Come More People aren't Doing TMS!

Posted by Hugh on June 13, 2020, at 13:26:03

In reply to How Come More People aren't Doing TMS!, posted by PCB on June 11, 2020, at 14:34:57

I haven't tried rTMS because it doesn't seem to be a very effective treatment for TRD. Deep TMS appears to be more effective. There's another form of TMS that appears to be far more effective than either rTMS or Deep TMS. It's alpha-synchronized TMS, or sTMS. This uses EEG to deliver a customized magnetic pulse to the patient's brain.

It was being developed by NeoSync, but in February, NeoSync was acquired by Wave Neuroscience, Inc.

https://www.globenewswire.com/fr/news-release/2020/02/26/1991037/0/en/Wave-Neuroscience-Acquires-Assets-of-NeoSync.html

Alpha-synchronized TMS might not receive FDA approval for another few years, but Wave Neuroscience already has its own EEG-guided TMS system called MeRT, which is available at 12 locations in the US, and in Australia and Panama.

https://braintreatmentcenter.com/treatment/mert

 

Re: How Come More People aren't Doing TMS!

Posted by Lamdage22 on June 15, 2020, at 12:40:19

In reply to Re: How Come More People aren't Doing TMS!, posted by Hugh on June 13, 2020, at 13:26:03

Unfortunately I have done deep TMS and it didn't do anything good. I just remember that it was after that, that I couldn't function without Antipsychotics anymore.

 

Re: How Come More People aren't Doing TMS!

Posted by alchemy on June 22, 2020, at 20:08:57

In reply to How Come More People aren't Doing TMS!, posted by PCB on June 11, 2020, at 14:34:57

I spent $10k on it out of desperation...no help.

 

Re: How Come More People aren't Doing TMS!

Posted by creepy on July 1, 2020, at 21:02:22

In reply to How Come More People aren't Doing TMS!, posted by PCB on June 11, 2020, at 14:34:57

I did TMS and it reversed some cognitive-depressive issues I had but not much with the mood stuff at all. felt like they had the machine on the wrong spot the whole time.


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