Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 1109688

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Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week

Posted by Lamdage22 on April 24, 2020, at 12:30:53

In reply to Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week, posted by undopaminergic on April 24, 2020, at 6:20:30

Yeah I get that. I was kind of forced by the outside more so than by the inside. I knew without support I couldnt withdraw the APs.

 

Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week

Posted by Lamdage22 on April 24, 2020, at 12:34:20

In reply to Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week, posted by Lamdage22 on April 24, 2020, at 12:30:53

I might have gotten to the point where the inside would have dictated that choice if I hadnt listened to the Drs. But nobody knows.

 

Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week rjlockhart37

Posted by linkadge on April 24, 2020, at 17:54:32

In reply to Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week, posted by rjlockhart37 on April 23, 2020, at 22:22:39

>cocaine = rush, euphoria, intense, feeling alive, >common in upper rooms of nightclubs, your high no >antidepressant effect

But how much of that is 'dose dependent'? Sure, snorting it is going to lead to a massive surge in monoamines causing a high. But what about lower doses delivered in a controlled fashion? I mean cocaine is a serotonin, norepinephrine and dopamine reuptake inhibitor. For somebody that is depressed, suicidal, apathetic, are you telling me that low dose, slow release cocaine would not do something similar to an SSRI + Ritalin?

Again, you could say the same about ketamine. You can take higher doses to get high, or you can take a controlled lower dose and have a life-saving antidepressant effect.


Linkadge

 

Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week undopaminergic

Posted by linkadge on April 24, 2020, at 17:56:15

In reply to Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week, posted by undopaminergic on April 24, 2020, at 2:19:14

>Full remission? That is impressive!

More or less, but I'm not sure what is bearing the weight here. I'm taking lithium, venlafaxine, mirtazapine, medical marijuanna, and now Ritalin.

I don't want to take all these meds long term (for a variety of reasons) and am looking for something to cut.

 

Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week undopaminergic

Posted by linkadge on April 24, 2020, at 18:09:14

In reply to Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week, posted by undopaminergic on April 24, 2020, at 3:16:31

>Incidentally, Freud reported a lack of nootropic >effects, whereas he suggested caffeine did have >such effects. In my experience, cocaine-like >stimulants do have substantial nootropic effects, >whereas caffeine alone has none (but that's just >me). The combination of both is superior to either >alone.

And that's the thing too. Cognitive difficulties in depression are a significant hinderance to recovery. I think for me (at least for the time being) the improvement in concentration and drive are why ritalin seems to be helping.

SSRIs do nothing for my drive, concentration, interest, apathy, psychomotor slowing etc. It many ways they make this worse. This has reciprocal effects on my self-esteem. Every time I quit something (lack of interest, concentration, memory etc) my depression gets worse.

With Ritalin I can actually 'get into' something, stay focused on it, and derive some pleasure from the completion of it. I'm only taking 5-10mg of it too.

Linkadge

 

Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week undopaminergic

Posted by linkadge on April 24, 2020, at 18:19:59

In reply to Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week, posted by undopaminergic on April 24, 2020, at 3:28:10

>You've done some heavy-duty antipsychotics. Was >that for augmentation of antidepressants or did you >have psychotic symptoms?

Thioridazine (lower potency) is not the same as thorazine. It is similar to perphenazine in some ways (mixed dopamine, serotonin antagonism). As to why...I'm not 100% sure. When depression meds didn't work one doctor wanted to go the bipolar route. I have to admit that lithium does help...but if I take it consistently I get really apathetic, so I take breaks. I don't have any 'classic' manic symptoms, but my mother is bipolar.

I think it was more related to agitation / anxiety. This was back in the early 2000's when olanzapine or seroquel was the 'go to' for all mental distress. Actually, I didn't mind olanzapine...it sufficiently wonked me out.


 

Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week undopaminergic

Posted by linkadge on April 24, 2020, at 18:38:18

In reply to Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week, posted by undopaminergic on April 24, 2020, at 3:33:10

>I agree, and I think I understand precisely what >you mean. I got lasting depersonalisation from >reboxetine (Edronax), and at the time, that really >helped for my depression. As it is now, I want my >emotions and my experience of the reality of >reality back.

Yeah, I can't seem to put my finger on my 'pattern' or what my problem is. My brain and thoughts just end up becoming so loud and painful that I just need to SHUT IT ALL DOWN. At this point, I resort to anything that will achieve this. However, I don't want to shut it down to 'depressed', so I look for things that can bring down the noise without causing depression. Being wonked out (I call it) is the only seeming state where my mind is not racing and I'm not depressed. I'm just detached and can let time pass giving my brain a chance to 'get a break'.

Honestly, I think its a 'hypercholinergic' state, as things like scopolamine do help.

Linkadge

 

Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week

Posted by undopaminergic on April 25, 2020, at 2:42:13

In reply to Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week undopaminergic, posted by linkadge on April 24, 2020, at 17:56:15

> >Full remission? That is impressive!
>
> More or less, but I'm not sure what is bearing the weight here. I'm taking lithium, venlafaxine, mirtazapine, medical marijuanna, and now Ritalin.
>
> I don't want to take all these meds long term (for a variety of reasons) and am looking for something to cut.
>

Well, it depends on what they do. It may be that all of them are contributing significantly. I would cut the mirtazapine, but I think you said you needed that for sleep. But maybe now that you're on Ritalin, the withdrawal symptoms of that (at the end of a dose) may help you sleep.

-undopaminergic

 

Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week

Posted by undopaminergic on April 25, 2020, at 3:08:42

In reply to Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week undopaminergic, posted by linkadge on April 24, 2020, at 18:09:14

>
> And that's the thing too. Cognitive difficulties in depression are a significant hinderance to recovery. I think for me (at least for the time being) the improvement in concentration and drive are why ritalin seems to be helping.
>

Did you ever try caffeine tablets? In my experience, you may need several hundred milligrams (but maybe that's just me).

What about racetams? Piracetam, aniracetam, etc.?

Acetylcholinesterase inhibitors? Huperzine A, galanthamine?

> SSRIs do nothing for my drive, concentration, interest, apathy, psychomotor slowing etc. It many ways they make this worse.
>

Why are you taking them then?

-undopaminergic

 

Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week

Posted by undopaminergic on April 25, 2020, at 3:16:37

In reply to Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week undopaminergic, posted by linkadge on April 24, 2020, at 18:19:59

>
> I think it was more related to agitation / anxiety. This was back in the early 2000's when olanzapine or seroquel was the 'go to' for all mental distress. Actually, I didn't mind olanzapine...it sufficiently wonked me out.
>

Wonked out? I'm not familiar with that phrase.

-undopaminergic

 

Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week

Posted by undopaminergic on April 25, 2020, at 3:20:09

In reply to Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week undopaminergic, posted by linkadge on April 24, 2020, at 18:38:18

>
> Yeah, I can't seem to put my finger on my 'pattern' or what my problem is. My brain and thoughts just end up becoming so loud and painful that I just need to SHUT IT ALL DOWN. At this point, I resort to anything that will achieve this. However, I don't want to shut it down to 'depressed', so I look for things that can bring down the noise without causing depression. Being wonked out (I call it) is the only seeming state where my mind is not racing and I'm not depressed. I'm just detached and can let time pass giving my brain a chance to 'get a break'.
>

You said Ritalin calmed your mind?

> Honestly, I think its a 'hypercholinergic' state, as things like scopolamine do help.
>

Maybe. I noticed something like that with biperiden.

-undopaminergic

 

Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week linkadge

Posted by rjlockhart37 on April 27, 2020, at 13:49:09

In reply to Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week rjlockhart37, posted by linkadge on April 24, 2020, at 17:54:32

the tthing is ..... most of cocaine intake is not thruogh stomach, i read its not well - absored, and its more delivery through sniffing it, or injecting it. I'm serious for some reason i read that it has poor absorbtion when taken orally, i dont know why i read that but thats what i saw.

Usally when someone does cocaine, there is a line, and you get a straw or roll up a doller bill and sniff into nose. I small line, maybe have less euphoria and more antidepressant, but the thing is ... cocaine, it can't be XR because it is not well absorbed, in the intrestines, or whtever through the stomach, its through sniffing or injection. I'm not trtying to shady, but ... the best possible way is to keep sniffing, and even doing that it builds up in your system, even when euphoria is gone, metabolites are still there even though main ones are not producing euphoria.

Like a tiny little line, you would feel better and in much better sprits, that why cocaine for years has been used to imroove people's mood. You may want to research, butg first they would never make cocaine a medical medication, that would nevet happen. They would maybe use a analogue of it thats less potent, similar to methylphenidate, an XR pill of C, read these articles online, its less absorbed in taken orally.

It also numbs your mouth, they use to use it before they realized people started snorting it, you would put cocaine on a toothache and it would make it go numb, just like orajel

 

Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week

Posted by rjlockhart37 on April 27, 2020, at 13:59:25

In reply to Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week rjlockhart37, posted by linkadge on April 24, 2020, at 17:54:32

but first thing first, its illegal. Unless there is risk, of doing it, it's illegal, most countries would have a punishent for havig possession of it. Desoxyn is m-amphtamie, but C is im tellig its less absorbed. It would never be a medication, over all thes years of people being arrested of having possession, its defeinty not would be, they would make an analogue of it. Unless your somwhere up in night clup, or doing it discreet, its illegal, even though it does have medical benefit, short half life, you would be better off on a moderate high dose of dexmethylphenidate.

 

Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week

Posted by rjlockhart37 on April 27, 2020, at 14:04:56

In reply to Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week, posted by rjlockhart37 on April 27, 2020, at 13:59:25

so...dont really want talk much about this subject because of that, plus is public board, those are simple facts about it, whatever dose small or big, it lasts only 30min. You would be a coke head to keep your mood going. THat nothing insulting you or anyone else, but that is a main term they use in rehabs

 

Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week

Posted by undopaminergic on April 28, 2020, at 2:27:04

In reply to Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week linkadge, posted by rjlockhart37 on April 27, 2020, at 13:49:09

> the tthing is ..... most of cocaine intake is not thruogh stomach, i read its not well - absored, and its more delivery through sniffing it, or injecting it. I'm serious for some reason i read that it has poor absorbtion when taken orally, i dont know why i read that but thats what i saw.
>
> ... cocaine, it can't be XR because it is not well absorbed, in the intrestines, or whtever through the stomach, ...

Of course, like most drugs, absorption of oral cocaine is less than injected. That doesn't mean bioavailability is 0%. Freud already knew, and reported, that cocaine is orally active.

> ... the best possible way is to keep sniffing, ...

If you overdo that, you can get a perforated nasal septum.

> and even doing that it builds up in your system, even when euphoria is gone, metabolites are still there even though main ones are not producing euphoria.
>

That is like many other drugs. Cocaine itself has a short half-life, but some of the metabolites last longer.

-undopaminergic

 

Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week

Posted by undopaminergic on April 28, 2020, at 2:30:57

In reply to Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week, posted by rjlockhart37 on April 27, 2020, at 14:04:56

> so...dont really want talk much about this subject because of that, plus is public board, those are simple facts about it, whatever dose small or big, it lasts only 30min.
>

My understanding is that oral cocaine lasts longer, over an hour. An XR formulation could last for many hours.

-undopaminergic

 

Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week

Posted by linkadge on April 28, 2020, at 15:56:02

In reply to Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week, posted by undopaminergic on April 28, 2020, at 2:30:57

Perhaps a patch would work.

Linkadge

 

Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week linkadge

Posted by SLS on April 28, 2020, at 18:13:08

In reply to Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week sigismund, posted by linkadge on April 23, 2020, at 17:12:47

> But on a serious note, I would say that Ritalin has put me into remission.

That brings a smile to my face. I hope it continues.


- Scott

 

Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week

Posted by rjlockhart37 on April 28, 2020, at 20:32:19

In reply to Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week, posted by undopaminergic on April 28, 2020, at 2:30:57

C is a superb mood booster, your high, not antidepressant feeling. but personally im not try to be shady, they would never use cocaine as a medication. They would maybe make a prologue of it, cocaine has been illegal substance, many people busted with it. And to make a XR form of C, not sure what drug company would do that without DEA getting involved. Cocaine is always been viewed as white powerder, that people love to sniff up their nose.

I think in 1915, i forgot the source, thats when they made regulations on drugs, it was in 1970 when they made the Controlled Substance Act, you know 1-being illegal and severe punishment, 2- strong narcotic or stimulant/sedative, only be prescribed in a doctor office, most benzos are 4-you can call them in through a telephone call, 5-those are stuff like lyrica thats kinda abusable but not as fun.

white powder that has been done for decades, defeintly would not have an XR form, DEA would raid their facilties

 

Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week

Posted by undopaminergic on April 29, 2020, at 2:58:58

In reply to Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week, posted by linkadge on April 28, 2020, at 15:56:02

> Perhaps a patch would work.
>
> Linkadge

"Cocatrana".

-undopaminergic

 

Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week undopaminergic

Posted by linkadge on April 29, 2020, at 7:30:32

In reply to Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week, posted by undopaminergic on April 29, 2020, at 2:58:58

Obviously, folks I'm not being serious about actually taking cocaine. Earlier in the thread I indicated I was not taking nor recommending cocaine for anybody.

The point was a "thought experiment" regarding whether a slow release low dose (sub-euphoriant level) of cocaine could show any kind of meaningful antidepressant effect. Pharmacologically, you'd think this is possible.

 

Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week

Posted by undopaminergic on April 29, 2020, at 9:37:12

In reply to Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week undopaminergic, posted by linkadge on April 29, 2020, at 7:30:32

> Obviously, folks I'm not being serious about actually taking cocaine. Earlier in the thread I indicated I was not taking nor recommending cocaine for anybody.
>
> The point was a "thought experiment" regarding whether a slow release low dose (sub-euphoriant level) of cocaine could show any kind of meaningful antidepressant effect. Pharmacologically, you'd think this is possible.
>

Maybe it is something for those who want a natural remedy. At least in the form of coca tea or chewing the leaves. The Incas used this natural antidepressant for thousands of years. The problems really only come when you blast your system with massive doses at a time and fast. Massive as compared to the doses used by the Indians.

I've read that coca tea has fewer side effects than coffee.

-undopaminergic

 

Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week

Posted by rjlockhart37 on April 29, 2020, at 18:11:53

In reply to Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week undopaminergic, posted by linkadge on April 29, 2020, at 7:30:32

yeah you are right, if it was used, C in lower doses, and would have a extended release, patch, it doenst absorb well orally, swallowing it, i've read it, but not sure if its entirly true. I've read people putting cocaine under their tongue, to get a quick absorb, then there tongue goes numb, they have trouble sepaking, because cocaine....used to be used to numb tooth aches, in late 1800s, then when they started seeing people sniffing it, and going crazy...they took off market.

so....a cocaine patch, yeah that could be possible, at the most lowest dose, coke heeds have cardio vascular problems because you keep sniffing all day, but the metabolites even after the euphoria is gone, they are still there, and they build up to have overdose, even without euphoria.

but that would be nice....cocaine-certa lol

wish it could acutally be used, but DEA and law enforncement, it will never be used as medication.

 

Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week rjlockhart37

Posted by linkadge on May 1, 2020, at 18:00:41

In reply to Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week, posted by rjlockhart37 on April 29, 2020, at 18:11:53

Many of the cardiovascular issues are likely caused by a large surge in norepinephrine via reuptake inhibition and/or release. Some of it could be related to sodium channel blockade at high doses. Venlafaxine IR for example has far more cardiovascular side effects than the XR version for (perhaps) a similar reason. A massive and sudden inhibition of the norepinephrine transporter can likely put your blood pressure through the roof. Again, I don't know whether this would be an issue with an XR version.

Linkadge

 

Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week

Posted by undopaminergic on May 3, 2020, at 3:52:53

In reply to Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week rjlockhart37, posted by linkadge on May 1, 2020, at 18:00:41

> Many of the cardiovascular issues are likely caused by a large surge in norepinephrine via reuptake inhibition and/or release. Some of it could be related to sodium channel blockade at high doses.
>

Probably not -- I read that all the -caine local anaesthetics, except for cocaine, induce vasodilation.

I think it's the noradrenaline. From what I read, it often appears that cocaine is a particularly strong noradrenaline reuptake inhibitor, in comparison with eg. methylphenidate. Maybe the dose-response curve does *not* flatten at higher doses.

-undopaminergic


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