Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 1109452

Shown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

Low-dose buprenorphine (Subutex) for depression

Posted by Hugh on April 7, 2020, at 10:45:09

Buprenorphine (Subutex) is an opioid that's used to treat pain and, like methadone, is used to get people off of other opioids. Doses vary from 4-24 mg per day. The average daily dose is 16 mg. Much lower doses of buprenorphine, taken sublingually, significantly decreased depression symptoms in people suffering from treatment-resistant depression. Their average daily dose was 0.4 mg.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6121503/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4157317/

 

Re: Low-dose buprenorphine (Subutex) for depression

Posted by undopaminergic on April 8, 2020, at 3:25:22

In reply to Low-dose buprenorphine (Subutex) for depression, posted by Hugh on April 7, 2020, at 10:45:09

> Buprenorphine (Subutex) is an opioid that's used to treat pain and, like methadone, is used to get people off of other opioids. Doses vary from 4-24 mg per day. The average daily dose is 16 mg. Much lower doses of buprenorphine, taken sublingually, significantly decreased depression symptoms in people suffering from treatment-resistant depression. Their average daily dose was 0.4 mg.
>
> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6121503/
>
> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4157317/

Buprenorphine (Buprenex, Temgesic, Subutex, Suboxone) is great. In my experience there was a little "half-euphoria" with the first dose or two, but this subsided to the point where there was little or no mood effect. I took it in combination with methylphenidate (Ritalin, Concerta), and that is the best treatment I've ever had for ADHD and working memory.

-undopaminergic

 

Re: Low-dose buprenorphine (Subutex) for depression

Posted by Lamdage22 on April 8, 2020, at 5:56:46

In reply to Re: Low-dose buprenorphine (Subutex) for depression, posted by undopaminergic on April 8, 2020, at 3:25:22

It sounds cool @ the low dosage. Would you be allowed to drive?

At .4 mg you probably won't get addicted, right?

 

Re: Low-dose buprenorphine (Subutex) for depression

Posted by undopaminergic on April 8, 2020, at 6:55:14

In reply to Re: Low-dose buprenorphine (Subutex) for depression, posted by Lamdage22 on April 8, 2020, at 5:56:46

> It sounds cool @ the low dosage. Would you be allowed to drive?
>

As far as I know, there are no laws specifically prohibiting buprenorphine or other opioids, but I think the rule is that you can't drive if you are impaired. As far as I noticed, there was impairment with the first few doses, which was nodding off (sleepiness), but when you get used to it, it should be all right.

> At .4 mg you probably won't get addicted, right?

Not addicted, no, I think that would be rare, but you get tolerant to some effects, but not others. This tolerance could lead to withdrawal effects. I was at up to 1.5 mg, and quit cold turkey (no my choice!) without any noticeable withdrawal.

-undopaminergic

 

Re: Low-dose buprenorphine (Subutex) for depression

Posted by Hugh on April 8, 2020, at 10:52:08

In reply to Re: Low-dose buprenorphine (Subutex) for depression, posted by undopaminergic on April 8, 2020, at 6:55:14

I wonder if people would develop tolerance to such a low dose of buprenorphine, and, if so, how long it would take to develop. Since ultra-low-dose naltrexone can mitigate opioid tolerance, I wonder if the two drugs would work well together.

 

Re: Low-dose buprenorphine (Subutex) for depression

Posted by undopaminergic on April 8, 2020, at 11:25:27

In reply to Re: Low-dose buprenorphine (Subutex) for depression, posted by Hugh on April 8, 2020, at 10:52:08

> I wonder if people would develop tolerance to such a low dose of buprenorphine, and, if so, how long it would take to develop. Since ultra-low-dose naltrexone can mitigate opioid tolerance, I wonder if the two drugs would work well together.
>

For opioid tolerance, memantine is another drug worth mentioning. Or ketamine?

Then again, these drugs are potent antidepressants in their own right.

As for naltrexone, I am skeptical, because buprenorphine has a long half-life and binds very tight to the opioid receptors. Seems to me they would interfere with one another.

-undopaminergic

 

Re: Low-dose buprenorphine (Subutex) for depression

Posted by Lamdage22 on April 8, 2020, at 11:53:04

In reply to Re: Low-dose buprenorphine (Subutex) for depression, posted by undopaminergic on April 8, 2020, at 11:25:27

I wont get anyone to prescribe this though. Not proven, blah blah.

 

Re: Low-dose buprenorphine (Subutex) for depression undopaminergic

Posted by Hugh on April 8, 2020, at 11:56:23

In reply to Re: Low-dose buprenorphine (Subutex) for depression, posted by undopaminergic on April 8, 2020, at 11:25:27

> As for naltrexone, I am skeptical, because buprenorphine has a long half-life and binds very tight to the opioid receptors. Seems to me they would interfere with one another.

You're right, a typical dose of naltrexone would interfere with buprenorphine. But I'm talking about ultra-low-dose naltrexone at doses in the nanograms or even picograms. These extremely low doses of naltrexone have been found to enhance the effects of opioids, helping to prevent tolerance and withdrawal.

https://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20180212/msgs/1103507.html

 

Re: Low-dose buprenorphine (Subutex) for depression

Posted by rjlockhart37 on April 8, 2020, at 20:08:07

In reply to Low-dose buprenorphine (Subutex) for depression, posted by Hugh on April 7, 2020, at 10:45:09

opiates relieve physical and emotional pain, i've read that, not just saying it as random statement. Buprenorphine i think by itself is the best, suboxone has naloxone with it, and sometimes blunts its effects, and main reason is not to get high even when take higher doses. I've reminissaated about taking methadone for depression, but first of all, that would be another addiction happening. Methadone clinic's are open for heroin addicts, they check their heron levels do all these tests, read some addicts have to come to clinic to have their daily methadone. Because they would abuse it if they were given prescription. But oh yes, it will relieve depression most definitely. But like i said, back in thoughts haven't told anyone, depression and emotional pain flashbacks would be relieved from bad events that happened. It's that imagination of deep fear, that just haunts you. Sometimes when trauma happens, you forget about it to suppress the memory. Methadone would be nice, but it would lead to addiction. It's more potent than buprenorphine, its a full agonist. Buprenorphine is a partial agonist, that's why there's just a mild opiate relief feeling

that;s all i can say...

 

Re: Low-dose buprenorphine (Subutex) for depression

Posted by Lamdage22 on April 9, 2020, at 0:12:36

In reply to Re: Low-dose buprenorphine (Subutex) for depression, posted by rjlockhart37 on April 8, 2020, at 20:08:07

I think most people don't have a doctor that would do this. Or am i wrong?

 

Re: Low-dose buprenorphine (Subutex) for depression

Posted by beckett2 on April 9, 2020, at 0:17:12

In reply to Low-dose buprenorphine (Subutex) for depression, posted by Hugh on April 7, 2020, at 10:45:09

When in hospital, they wanted me to take this, but I was absolutely terrified of withdrawal. There is something about the way it binds. The dose would have been higher, I think, than for depression.

So at this dose, there may not be a painful withdrawal?

What you're saying is interesting.

 

Re: Low-dose buprenorphine (Subutex) for depression

Posted by rjlockhart37 on April 9, 2020, at 0:26:18

In reply to Re: Low-dose buprenorphine (Subutex) for depression, posted by Lamdage22 on April 9, 2020, at 0:12:36

there are doctors who over compassionate, usally doctors who have connected to their patients during their pain. But most healthcare professiols would never prescribe an opiate for depression

but don't feel bad, dr. everything gonna be alright, is being cracked down on by FDA and DEA during this opioid crisis

 

Re: Low-dose buprenorphine (Subutex) for depression

Posted by rjlockhart37 on April 9, 2020, at 0:57:04

In reply to Re: Low-dose buprenorphine (Subutex) for depression, posted by rjlockhart37 on April 9, 2020, at 0:26:18

in the US buprenorphine is advertised on tv, but usually you have to go buprenorphine doctors. Addiction doctors and specialist.

They don't advertise it for depression, its opioid dependence or withdrawal.

 

Re: Low-dose buprenorphine (Subutex) for depression Lamdage22

Posted by Hugh on April 9, 2020, at 13:07:01

In reply to Re: Low-dose buprenorphine (Subutex) for depression, posted by Lamdage22 on April 9, 2020, at 0:12:36

> I think most people don't have a doctor that would do this. Or am i wrong?

I don't know what the law is where you live in Germany, but in the US, if a drug has been approved by the FDA, physicians are allowed to prescribe it off-label for other conditions. But I would guess that most physicians would be unwilling to prescribe an opioid -- even a tiny dose of it -- to treat depression.

 

Re: Low-dose buprenorphine (Subutex) for depression

Posted by Lamdage22 on April 9, 2020, at 16:24:21

In reply to Re: Low-dose buprenorphine (Subutex) for depression Lamdage22, posted by Hugh on April 9, 2020, at 13:07:01

Yeah, no one will do it, although they could.

 

Re: Low-dose buprenorphine (Subutex) for depression

Posted by undopaminergic on April 10, 2020, at 7:13:21

In reply to Re: Low-dose buprenorphine (Subutex) for depression, posted by Lamdage22 on April 9, 2020, at 16:24:21

> Yeah, no one will do it, although they could.

I had a doctor who did, an Austrian psychiatrist. But he is a kind of maverick and very changeable -- eg. would prescribe buprenorphine even after calling it "morphine" but would not prescribe oxcarbazepine (he prescribed clonazepam instead).

-undopaminergic

 

Re: Low-dose buprenorphine (Subutex) for depression

Posted by Lamdage22 on April 10, 2020, at 8:02:34

In reply to Re: Low-dose buprenorphine (Subutex) for depression, posted by undopaminergic on April 10, 2020, at 7:13:21

You are from Austria? Haha that is close-> Germany

 

Re: Low-dose buprenorphine (Subutex) for depression

Posted by undopaminergic on April 10, 2020, at 9:54:02

In reply to Re: Low-dose buprenorphine (Subutex) for depression, posted by Lamdage22 on April 10, 2020, at 8:02:34

> You are from Austria? Haha that is close-> Germany

I am Nordic myself. My now retired psychiatrist is from Austria, although he is long since settled (including married) in my home town.

-undopaminergic


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