Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 1108947

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stimulants and social anxiety

Posted by beckett2 on March 11, 2020, at 14:24:21

Does anyone have a hunch why stimulants can help with social anxiety?

When I take even as much a 3 mg, I can leave my house w moderate ease. The past few years I've slid into agoraphobia. It's so curious.

Wellbutrin had a similar effect. Every stimulant (except Provigil).

 

Re: stimulants and social anxiety

Posted by linkadge on March 11, 2020, at 16:19:18

In reply to stimulants and social anxiety, posted by beckett2 on March 11, 2020, at 14:24:21

I remember reading that (in social phobia) there is an elevation of the dopamine transporter in the amygdala. Perhaps stimulants correct this.

Interestingly, while I don't have social phobia per-se, I had lost much interest in social interaction. Basically interacting with others was difficult and boring. Since restarting methylphenidate, I find it much easier to connect with people, and my speech patterns are much more natural.

Linkadge

 

Re: stimulants and social anxiety

Posted by beckett2 on March 12, 2020, at 0:14:33

In reply to Re: stimulants and social anxiety, posted by linkadge on March 11, 2020, at 16:19:18

> I remember reading that (in social phobia) there is an elevation of the dopamine transporter in the amygdala. Perhaps stimulants correct this.
>
> Interestingly, while I don't have social phobia per-se, I had lost much interest in social interaction. Basically interacting with others was difficult and boring. Since restarting methylphenidate, I find it much easier to connect with people, and my speech patterns are much more natural.
>
> Linkadge

So, does this mean (roughly) such an amygdala has an 'excess' of dopamine receptors, therefore the capacity to utilize dopamine is greater then what is naturally produced? (I don't mean to have you explain at length. My knowledge is limited.) Thanks.

 

Re: stimulants and social anxiety

Posted by undopaminergic on March 12, 2020, at 10:29:00

In reply to stimulants and social anxiety, posted by beckett2 on March 11, 2020, at 14:24:21

> Does anyone have a hunch why stimulants can help with social anxiety?

More than a hunch. In my own experience, they increase motivation and mental energy, and they improve self-confidence.

> When I take even as much a 3 mg, I can leave my house w moderate ease.

3 mg of what?

Sorry to hear you've descended into agoraphobia. Is that like GAD?

-undopaminergic

 

Re: stimulants and social anxiety

Posted by beckett2 on March 12, 2020, at 13:35:56

In reply to Re: stimulants and social anxiety, posted by undopaminergic on March 12, 2020, at 10:29:00

> > Does anyone have a hunch why stimulants can help with social anxiety?
>
> More than a hunch. In my own experience, they increase motivation and mental energy, and they improve self-confidence.
>
> > When I take even as much a 3 mg, I can leave my house w moderate ease.
>
> 3 mg of what?
>
> Sorry to hear you've descended into agoraphobia. Is that like GAD?
>
> -undopaminergic
>


Adderall. It does what I think coffee does for neurotypicals.

I've had GAD. Social phobia is avoidant, while my experience of GAD was jackhammering thoughts, crying and handwringing. It might be an expression of bipolar for me.

Have you experienced GAD?

(The agoraphobia isn't completely terrible. Thanks.)

 

Re: stimulants and social anxiety

Posted by undopaminergic on March 13, 2020, at 4:24:54

In reply to Re: stimulants and social anxiety, posted by beckett2 on March 12, 2020, at 13:35:56

>
> I've had GAD. Social phobia is avoidant, while my experience of GAD was jackhammering thoughts, crying and handwringing. It might be an expression of bipolar for me.
>

Avoidant?

> Have you experienced GAD?

No. But I've had anxiety that I don't know what to call it. I mean I have felt anxiety without obvious reasons, but I think GAD is more serious. I coped with it by taking a walk. I have also found another trick, which is to allow oneself to fully feel the anxiety: concentrate on it, and it will go away much faster.

-undopaminergic

 

Re: stimulants and social anxiety

Posted by beckett2 on March 13, 2020, at 13:09:12

In reply to Re: stimulants and social anxiety, posted by undopaminergic on March 13, 2020, at 4:24:54

> >
> > I've had GAD. Social phobia is avoidant, while my experience of GAD was jackhammering thoughts, crying, and handwringing. It might be an expression of bipolar for me.
> >
>
> Avoidant?
>
> > Have you experienced GAD?
>
> No. But I've had anxiety that I don't know what to call it. I mean I have felt anxiety without obvious reasons, but I think GAD is more serious. I coped with it by taking a walk. I have also found another trick, which is to allow oneself to fully feel the anxiety: concentrate on it, and it will go away much faster.
>
> -undopaminergic
>

> Avoidant?

Sorry. I didn't mean like Cluster C. Basically if one avoids social situations, the anxiety decreases. With GAD, simple avoidance isn't enough.


>I coped with it by taking a walk. I have also found another trick, which is to allow oneself to fully feel the anxiety: concentrate on it, and it will go away much faster.

Interesting. I'm glad to hear it. This sounds like the DBT distress skill of distress tolerance.

If you do not mind me asking, what are your mental health issues? If I recall correctly, you experience AD induced apathy. And didn't you recently say medication caused depersonalization, (which, by the way, can be temporarily induced by panic attacks)? Free-floating depersonalization sounds different.

 

Re: stimulants and social anxiety

Posted by undopaminergic on March 13, 2020, at 13:57:11

In reply to Re: stimulants and social anxiety, posted by beckett2 on March 13, 2020, at 13:09:12

> > Avoidant?
>
> Sorry. I didn't mean like Cluster C. Basically if one avoids social situations, the anxiety decreases. With GAD, simple avoidance isn't enough.
>

And with agoraphobia, the anxiety decreases when you avoid open spaces?

> >I coped with it by taking a walk. I have also found another trick, which is to allow oneself to fully feel the anxiety: concentrate on it, and it will go away much faster.
>
> Interesting. I'm glad to hear it. This sounds like the DBT distress skill of distress tolerance.
>

I've taken a DBT course, but I don't remember that skill.

> If you do not mind me asking, what are your mental health issues? If I recall correctly, you experience AD induced apathy. And didn't you recently say medication caused depersonalization, (which, by the way, can be temporarily induced by panic attacks)? Free-floating depersonalization sounds different.
>

Bipolar disorder, because I've been manic, but otherwise it resembles unipolar depression more. When manic, I get delusions, which is the reason why I have a schizophrenia diagnosis. The first time I had psychosis was due to sleep deprivation which led to paranoia and auditory hallucinations; that *looked* like schizophrenia, but in retrospect I regard it as a mixed manic episode. I'm not entirely sure whether schizoaffective disorder might fit. The delusions do not necessarily go away when the manic episode is over, and therefore delusional disorder might also be a fit, in addition to the bipolar which is the main thing. Without mania, no psychosis -- that's why the bipolar is the most relevant diagnosis. I have most of the negative symptoms of schizophrenia, and most of the neuropsychiatric symptoms of Parkinson's disease, and these symptoms are also common in depression.

I like to say I don't have a "mood" disorder any more, because my thinking is positive and my mood is good.

Apathy and cognitive dysfunction are the residual symptoms of my depression.

So my apathy is not drug-induced. However, SSRIs can *worsen* the apathy.

-undopaminergic

 

Re: stimulants and social anxiety beckett2

Posted by linkadge on March 13, 2020, at 19:53:07

In reply to Re: stimulants and social anxiety, posted by beckett2 on March 12, 2020, at 0:14:33

It means that, in the amygdala, too much dopamine is being removed by the dopamine transporter. If the dopamine transporter is inhibited (by a stimulant) it may normalize this. Again, it's just speculation on my part.

 

Re: stimulants and social anxiety

Posted by sigismund on March 14, 2020, at 1:48:27

In reply to Re: stimulants and social anxiety beckett2, posted by linkadge on March 13, 2020, at 19:53:07

I had a real fear of meeting people I knew the supermarket aisle, and that would lead to shame and more fear.

I go less to the supermarket now and care very much less about the whole thing.

I came out of my childhood not knowing how to do many things. Buying something in a shop, handing money over the counter, trying to buy a beer in a pub, so busy trying to hide my fear I couldn't do anything else.

Amphetamine would have helped.

 

Re: stimulants and social anxiety

Posted by rjlockhart37 on March 19, 2020, at 1:07:54

In reply to Re: stimulants and social anxiety, posted by linkadge on March 11, 2020, at 16:19:18

adderall makes you more chatty, and hyper, but also more on edge, and the wear off period is terrible, you feel washout and irrtible, irrtible while talking to people. When you feel it starting to leave the system, its not pleasant. Dexedrine is not as bad, in someway is better, it doenst make as hyper as adderall, but it has strong psychoactive effects, its pure d-amphetamine, not levoamphetamine which makes more sweatier and nervous. Vyvanse....i have to say is the worst, yes it will help you stay on task, yes and talk and get things done.... but vyvan'se wear off period is worst out of all of them. It slowly wears off and you have to through this grueling period of fatige and depression. I hated it.

I'm not .. about to say but, desoxyn you would think would be more potent, and stimulating. But i've read that actually desoxyn work totally diffrent than the other traditional stimulants. It works on serotonin also, at moderate doses, and i have read people saying there social anxiety went away completely, and they said it didnt have the end of the world wear off period that traditionl amphetamines do. But desxoyhn ... is methamphetamine, but in the dosing it is used, not the street form. M-amphetamine works on serotonin, and also dopamine. Traditial stimulants don't work on serotonin. But there is no doctor that will ever considered doing desoxyn, but what i have read....is that people have said it has entirely diffrent effect than the ohter stimmulants, many times about improvement on social skills. It's due to serogentic properties of methamphetamine, and it in a controlled form, such as dosing, the street stuff is crazy i don't know goes up to like 150mg. Screws people up, totally. I just had to say that, i know that's .... sounds nonsense, but you would think it would be opposite. But desoxyn is totally different in effects, compared to traditional stimulants.

But let's get real, mainly dexedrine i think would be the best, and using it for doing work during day and not just popping them when going to socials and parties. Adderall makes you hyped up, almost fueled up, because of levoamphetamine.

 

Re: stimulants and social anxiety

Posted by rjlockhart37 on March 19, 2020, at 1:18:38

In reply to Re: stimulants and social anxiety, posted by rjlockhart37 on March 19, 2020, at 1:07:54

but, instead of the traditional stimulants, provigil would be a good help for socializing, it helps you stay awake and not the psychoactive surge that amphetamines do. It's like caffeine without having the shakes, or jitters, it just keeps you alert, attentive and awake, your more able to function, especially if have depression

 

Re: stimulants and social anxiety

Posted by rjlockhart37 on March 19, 2020, at 1:26:02

In reply to Re: stimulants and social anxiety, posted by rjlockhart37 on March 19, 2020, at 1:07:54

anyways, just another rant, but those are actual review people reported about the effects. Adderall made me chatty, but also kinda bonkers and hyper. Dexedrine is not as hyper, but its more psychoactive. It depends on the situation, sometimes, levoamphetamine can increase norepinephrine firing than the dexto form, which makes you more chatty, and you just keep going on talking

 

Re: stimulants and social anxiety

Posted by undopaminergic on March 19, 2020, at 4:12:17

In reply to Re: stimulants and social anxiety, posted by rjlockhart37 on March 19, 2020, at 1:07:54

> adderall makes you more chatty, and hyper, but also more on edge, and the wear off period is terrible, you feel washout and irrtible, irrtible while talking to people. When you feel it starting to leave the system, its not pleasant. Dexedrine is not as bad, in someway is better, it doenst make as hyper as adderall, but it has strong psychoactive effects, its pure d-amphetamine, not levoamphetamine which makes more sweatier and nervous. Vyvanse....i have to say is the worst, yes it will help you stay on task, yes and talk and get things done.... but vyvan'se wear off period is worst out of all of them. It slowly wears off and you have to through this grueling period of fatige and depression. I hated it.
>

The effects, both therapeutic and withdrawal, vary a lot between people.

> Traditial stimulants don't work on serotonin.

Cocaine does.

-undopaminergic

 

Re: stimulants and social anxiety

Posted by undopaminergic on March 19, 2020, at 4:14:23

In reply to Re: stimulants and social anxiety, posted by rjlockhart37 on March 19, 2020, at 1:26:02

> levoamphetamine can increase norepinephrine firing than the dexto form, which makes you more chatty, and you just keep going on talking
>

I'm pretty sure that's the dopamine.

-undopaminergic

 

Re: stimulants and social anxiety

Posted by rjlockhart37 on March 19, 2020, at 16:33:17

In reply to Re: stimulants and social anxiety, posted by undopaminergic on March 19, 2020, at 4:14:23

no, i have to say levoamphetamine is not a dopamine hitter, it causes cardiovascular increase and peripheral vasoconstriction

"Levoamphetamine is more biased toward promoting norepinephrine release than Dexedrine (dextroamphetamine). Norepinephrine activates the sympathetic nervous system or the fight-or-flight response"
https://www.quora.com/How-do-levoamphetamine-and-dextroamphetamine-differ

I've taken adderall and dexedrine, adderall makes you more hyped and also more sweatier than dex. It's because of levoamphetamine. It's more physical stimulation, and hitting norepinephrine. Dextroamphetamine mainly hits dopamine and parts of norepinephrine. They used benzedrine in world war 2, which was racemic amphetamine, 50%dextro, %levoamphetamine, it has more physical stimulation and increased heart rate. And NE firing. The reason i know that is because i've taken both dexedrine and adderall, adderall makes more sweatier and more physical stimulation, dexedrine is less, its more smooth, because of only dextro isomer

 

Re: stimulants and social anxiety

Posted by rjlockhart37 on March 19, 2020, at 16:37:20

In reply to Re: stimulants and social anxiety, posted by rjlockhart37 on March 19, 2020, at 16:33:17

that's why adderall gives you kick to get out bed, while you just lay in bed on dex and just think about things, the levo kicks cardiovascilar and norpehrpine and makes kick

 

Re: stimulants and social anxiety

Posted by rjlockhart37 on March 19, 2020, at 16:39:48

In reply to Re: stimulants and social anxiety, posted by undopaminergic on March 19, 2020, at 4:14:23

not trying to argue or anything but ... thats levoamphetamine, its kick, then mixed with dopamine creates a synergy of norepinephrine that is a bit higher than dex

 

Re: stimulants and social anxiety

Posted by rjlockhart37 on March 19, 2020, at 22:40:20

In reply to Re: stimulants and social anxiety, posted by rjlockhart37 on March 19, 2020, at 16:39:48

basically what im trying to say, and not argue, or disagree, is the more norepinephrine you have, the more ... i guess talking, or your alert and active and increases socialization, maybe not in terms of being at parties and socials. But at work, when getting things done, norepinephrine increases attention and alertness, so both that and dopamine increases socialization. That's why people are chatty and bit bonkers on adderall.

 

Re: stimulants and social anxiety

Posted by undopaminergic on March 20, 2020, at 1:48:16

In reply to Re: stimulants and social anxiety, posted by rjlockhart37 on March 19, 2020, at 16:33:17

> no, i have to say levoamphetamine is not a dopamine hitter, it causes cardiovascular increase and peripheral vasoconstriction
>
> "Levoamphetamine is more biased toward promoting norepinephrine release than Dexedrine (dextroamphetamine). Norepinephrine activates the sympathetic nervous system or the fight-or-flight response"
> https://www.quora.com/How-do-levoamphetamine-and-dextroamphetamine-differ
>

I agree it affects noradrenaline (norepinephrine) more than dextroamphetamine does, but I am pretty sure it still affects dopamine.

-undopaminergic

 

Re: stimulants and social anxiety

Posted by undopaminergic on March 20, 2020, at 1:51:34

In reply to Re: stimulants and social anxiety, posted by rjlockhart37 on March 19, 2020, at 16:37:20

> that's why adderall gives you kick to get out bed, while you just lay in bed on dex and just think about things, the levo kicks cardiovascilar and norpehrpine and makes kick
>

Many, if not most, people find that dextroamphetamine improves motivation, which includes getting out of bed.

-undopaminergic

 

Re: stimulants and social anxiety

Posted by undopaminergic on March 20, 2020, at 3:59:40

In reply to Re: stimulants and social anxiety, posted by rjlockhart37 on March 19, 2020, at 22:40:20

> basically what im trying to say, and not argue, or disagree, is the more norepinephrine you have, the more ... i guess talking, or your alert and active and increases socialization, maybe not in terms of being at parties and socials. But at work, when getting things done, norepinephrine increases attention and alertness, so both that and dopamine increases socialization. That's why people are chatty and bit bonkers on adderall.
>

If that is true, why doesn't reboxetine (Edronax) or atomoxetine (Strattera) have these effects? I didn't get chatty at all from these drugs. Not attention or alertness either. Maybe a bit of wakefulness and arousal.

Same thing with ephedrine -- that's almost only noradrenaline. Perhaps a tiny bit dopamine too, because ephedrine was better for me than reboxetine and atomoxetine.

-undopaminergic

 

Re: stimulants and social anxiety

Posted by beckett2 on March 20, 2020, at 14:29:27

In reply to Re: stimulants and social anxiety, posted by undopaminergic on March 20, 2020, at 3:59:40


>
> If that is true, why doesn't reboxetine (Edronax) or atomoxetine (Strattera) have these effects? I didn't get chatty at all from these drugs. Not attention or alertness either. Maybe a bit of wakefulness and arousal.
>

>
> -undopaminergic

Strattera made me anxious as hell.

 

Re: stimulants and social anxiety

Posted by rjlockhart37 on March 20, 2020, at 18:02:57

In reply to Re: stimulants and social anxiety, posted by undopaminergic on March 20, 2020, at 3:59:40

its because it releasing it, not reptaking it. Your more norephinrpine spin going, its not reuptaking it. Also Evekeo, which half dextro and half levo, which is more than adderall. Adderall is 75% dextro and 25% levo, so ive never tried evekeo, but they use it in world war 2, under the Benzedrine, then they discontinued because they found dexedrine was more better, potent, less cardiovascular increase from the levo form.

Like when i took dexedrine in the morning, i took spansule kind, i would take, sometimes i would take 4 spansules, 15mg each, and i would have 30mg release for 6 hours. Adderall was a kicker, while dex i could just lay in bed and thik about things real indepthly. I didn't have a NE surge kick to jump out of the bed. It was more dopamine, and yeah some norepinephrine. Adderall and Evekeo are levo forms. I still don't know any reviews about evekeo here, because its half dex half levo. A thought - you would active and performance enhanced. They use racemic amphetamine during workout sessions, until they banned it from sports substances that enhance performance.

 

Re: stimulants and social anxiety

Posted by undopaminergic on March 21, 2020, at 4:54:06

In reply to Re: stimulants and social anxiety, posted by beckett2 on March 20, 2020, at 14:29:27

>
> Strattera made me anxious as hell.
>

Was that really anxiety, or was it nervousness (often including butterflies in the stomach) or perhaps both?

-undopaminergic


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