Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 1107812

Shown: posts 8 to 32 of 48. Go back in thread:

 

Re: TO UNDOPAMINERGIC » linkadge

Posted by undopaminergic on January 11, 2020, at 9:58:26

In reply to Re: TO UNDOPAMINERGIC » undopaminergic, posted by linkadge on January 11, 2020, at 8:02:48

> >I've reviewed the literature on modafinil before, >and I just haven't come across any sources >suggesting serotonergic actions of modafinil, >probably because it is a marginal phenomenon.
>
> Neither you nor I know the extent of the effect. The fact is that it DOES have documented (perhaps indirect) effects on the serotoninergic system. The mechanism of modafinil is complex and might (speculation here) affect serotonin via a histaminergic mechanism.
>

Adrafinil, of which modafinil is the active metabolite, was so called because it was thought to be an agonist at alpha1-adrenoceptors. My hunch is that there are downstream effects of this, such as functional (not necessarily directly related to changed concentrations) modulation of several neurotransmitter systems, which may well include serotonin and histamine, and not unlikely dopamine, the latter of which may work synergistically with the dopamine reuptake inhibition activity of the drug. There is some evidence that there is a central system that uses adrenaline (epinephrine) as the neurotransmitter, and this using alpha1B (and maybe beta2 and beta3), in particular, as its preferential target receptors.

This report focusses on a central adrenaline-activated system:
https://www.nature.com/articles/1300222.pdf?origin=ppub

-undopaminergic

 

Re: tO linkage » greg rizzo

Posted by undopaminergic on January 11, 2020, at 10:17:27

In reply to Re: tO linkage, posted by greg rizzo on January 11, 2020, at 9:48:19

> AND PLEASE PEOPLE OUT THERE--DON'T WRITE JUST TO BITCH ABOUT SOME OF MY INFO ACCURACY. DOING THE BEST CAN TO BE ACCURATE, BUT I'M NOT PERFECT!
> ------------------------------------------

There were many good parts in this post.

That said, there were problems as well.

I refrain from further comment, lest you might feel I'm attacking you.

-undopaminergic

 

Re: TO UNDOPAMINERGIC » greg rizzo

Posted by undopaminergic on January 11, 2020, at 10:28:46

In reply to Re: TO UNDOPAMINERGIC, posted by greg rizzo on January 11, 2020, at 9:57:11

> BULL....
>
> YOU HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO CLUE WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT REGARDING THE INFO THAT YOU COPIED FROM THE INTERNET.. IT IS VERY OBVIOUS YOU JUST HATE BEING WRONG.
>

Almost everyone hates to be wrong. Of course I dislike being proven wrong, but I appreciate constructive criticism, because it is better to learn something new rather than to remain ignorant about your errors.

It seems to me you are just angry because I complained about your duplicates. Can you not understand that it is annoying to be "nagged" at with 5+ copies of the same thing?

What have I copied from the Internet that you have a problem with? Seems to me you have copied a lot more from the Internet than I have.

AND WHY DO YOU THINK IT IS A GOOD IDEA TO WRITE EVERYTHING IN CAPITALS? IT IS NOT EASIER TO READ AND IT IS NOT EASIER TO UNDERSTAND. IT ALSO MAKES YOU LOOK LIKE A NEWBIE. DO YOU SEE OTHER PEOPLE HERE WRITING IN THIS STYLE? I'M DOING IT HERE JUST TO MAKE A POINT. (C) COPYRIGHT 2020 BY UNDOPAMINERGIC CORPORATION!!!

-undopaminergic

 

Re: tO DOPAMINIC

Posted by greg rizzo on January 11, 2020, at 10:55:47

In reply to Re: tO linkage » greg rizzo, posted by undopaminergic on January 11, 2020, at 10:17:27

THATS ALL YOU DO--ATTACK OTHER'S POSTS.

 

Re: tO DOPAMINIC » greg rizzo

Posted by undopaminergic on January 11, 2020, at 12:03:56

In reply to Re: tO DOPAMINIC, posted by greg rizzo on January 11, 2020, at 10:55:47

> THATS ALL YOU DO--ATTACK OTHER'S POSTS.

Some people are touchy and react adversely to some of my comments. In general, my comments are neutral with regard to value-judgments, rather, they pertain to facts not feelings. If I want to "attack" something, such as in the case of your duplicates, I make that clear enough, and even then, I attack the behaviour and not the person or personality behind it. I'm not against you, just against some of the things you are doing. I am pleased that you have stopped the duplicates.

I notice that you have not tried to back up any of your accusations, so I assume there is nothing to them. Obviously, you prefer to accuse and to argue rather than engage in any kind of constructive debate.

-undopaminergic

 

Re: TO UNDOPAMINERGIC

Posted by greg rizzo on January 11, 2020, at 12:11:19

In reply to Re: TO UNDOPAMINERGIC » greg rizzo, posted by undopaminergic on January 11, 2020, at 3:57:23

When you're new here you don't realize that somrtimes there is a delay in having your message posted or you have to refresh the page to show your posting. I didn't realize that.

Funny-you're the only who complained about the duplicate posting. Do you have an insecurity or low self esteem problem that can only be temporarily appeased by putting others down to make yourself feel better? Hmmmmm

 

Re: TO UNDOPAMINERGIC » greg rizzo

Posted by undopaminergic on January 11, 2020, at 12:21:48

In reply to Re: TO UNDOPAMINERGIC, posted by greg rizzo on January 11, 2020, at 12:11:19

> When you're new here you don't realize that somrtimes there is a delay in having your message posted or you have to refresh the page to show your posting. I didn't realize that.
>

Thank you for explaining. I understand it now. Before you explained, I did not understand why you were doing it.

> Funny-you're the only who complained about the duplicate posting. Do you have an insecurity or low self esteem problem that can only be temporarily appeased by putting others down to make yourself feel better? Hmmmmm
>

Sometimes, I can be irritable. I think it is in part related to my mood. It may also be that I find different things irritating than most people.

-undopaminergic


 

Re: TO UNDOPAMINERGIC

Posted by greg rizzo on January 11, 2020, at 12:31:37

In reply to Re: TO UNDOPAMINERGIC » greg rizzo, posted by undopaminergic on January 11, 2020, at 12:21:48

Nice message--thank you. Maybe we can start over in our relationsip. After all, were all seeking the same goal.
I too can be irritable, vindictive, overly sensitve or frustrated in solving our common proble. Sorry.

 

Re: tO linkage

Posted by greg rizzo on January 11, 2020, at 16:10:19

In reply to Re: tO linkage, posted by greg rizzo on January 11, 2020, at 9:48:19

Post by Dr. Bob:
Just found this post bt D. Bob. May be an old post to you but it's new to me about augmenting Nardil.
--------------------------------------------
From the descriptions of others, research and my own experiences, I believe there are two problems with the new nardil as compared to the old:
1) new nardil is absorbed before it reaches the new intestine
2) even if new nardil does reach the new intestine, the absorbtion *rate* is off balance

That's why placing nardil in plasmin plus enteric tabs were only partially effective. yes, more phenelzine would likely survive the trip through the stomach, but once the enteric tab dissolved, the nardil itself won't be absorbed to the maximum level without an excipient to aid it.
The best excipients to aid absorption into the small intestine are sugar invert (a.k.a. honey) and ethanol (alcohol). Sugar is quite good, but the absorbtion rate, though high, is relatively slow.

As far as absorption into the small intestine, NOTHING beats alcohol. It's rate and level of absorption by the small intestine is extremely high. Obviously, I don't mean kick back shots of tequila, I'm talking mere drops of the substance.

Therefore mixing nardil with either honey or alcohol has been much more effectiv

 

Re: TO UNDOPAMINERGIC » greg rizzo

Posted by undopaminergic on January 12, 2020, at 3:12:11

In reply to Re: TO UNDOPAMINERGIC, posted by greg rizzo on January 11, 2020, at 12:31:37

> Nice message--thank you. Maybe we can start over in our relationsip. After all, were all seeking the same goal.
> I too can be irritable, vindictive, overly sensitve or frustrated in solving our common proble. Sorry.
>

Sure, I'd rather be friends than enemies.

-undopaminergic

 

AUGMENTATION OF NARDIL EXPERIMENT/TRIAL

Posted by greg rizzo on January 12, 2020, at 13:08:10

In reply to Re: TO UNDOPAMINERGIC, posted by greg rizzo on January 11, 2020, at 12:31:37

Some don't give a damn about what I'm about to post so just skip this post, go about your business, and spare me your criticism. I'm merely trying to improve the efficacy of nardil. Helpful suggestions are welcomed. So here goes:
--------------------------------------------
Facts we already know:
1.New nardil is too quickly metabolized and excreted mainly due to the acidic nature of the stomach. (or so the literature states). It is theorized that the carnuba wax coating on the old Nardil prevented this from happening. Again this is theorized.
So what can we do about the new lack of efficacy us old-timers notice compared to the old nardil formula.
---------------------------------------
Here's what I'm trying:
1.Encasing nardil tablets in empty enteric cellulose capsules.
2. Taking Bioperine which the literature says increases absorpyion and bioavailability of medication.
3. Taking an antacid hopefully to reduce the acidic nature of the stomach.
4. At Dr. Bob's suggestion, I take invert sugar honey) and a sip of alcohol. Dr. Bob's comments--"The best excipients to aid absorption into the small intestine are sugar invert (a.k.a. honey) and ethanol (alcohol). Sugar is quite good, but the absorbtion rate, though high, is relatively slow.
As far as absorption into the small intestine, NOTHING beats alcohol. It's rate and level of absorption by the small intestine is extremely high. Obviously, I don't mean gulp shots of tequila, I'm talking mere drops of alcohol.
Therefore mixing nardil with either honey or alcohol has been much more effective."
-------------------------------------------
End of dissertation, other than to say "I've only just begun to fight."

 

Re: AUGMENTATION OF NARDIL EXPERIMENT/TRIAL

Posted by Lamdage22 on January 12, 2020, at 13:23:42

In reply to AUGMENTATION OF NARDIL EXPERIMENT/TRIAL, posted by greg rizzo on January 12, 2020, at 13:08:10

Why doesn't simply taking more Nardil fix the problem?

 

Re: AUGMENTATION OF NARDIL EXPERIMENT/TRIAL

Posted by atypical on January 12, 2020, at 23:38:22

In reply to Re: AUGMENTATION OF NARDIL EXPERIMENT/TRIAL, posted by Lamdage22 on January 12, 2020, at 13:23:42

> Why doesn't simply taking more Nardil fix the problem?

I think if jt is not getting absorbed properly in the first place, increasing the dose will not help. Sort of like filling a cup with a big hole in it. The water never fills up, even if you increase the amount of water being poured.

 

Re: AUGMENTATION OF NARDIL EXPERIMENT/TRIAL

Posted by TH on January 13, 2020, at 3:01:47

In reply to Re: AUGMENTATION OF NARDIL EXPERIMENT/TRIAL, posted by atypical on January 12, 2020, at 23:38:22

> > Why doesn't simply taking more Nardil fix the problem?
>
> I think if jt is not getting absorbed properly in the first place, increasing the dose will not help. Sort of like filling a cup with a big hole in it. The water never fills up, even if you increase the amount of water being poured.
>

To chime in without really reading:
I have a feeling there was a theory going around about it the differences coming from the site of absorption (stomach vs intestine) due to dissolution rate.

 

Re: AUGMENTATION OF NARDIL EXPERIMENT/TRIAL

Posted by undopaminergic on January 13, 2020, at 3:15:31

In reply to Re: AUGMENTATION OF NARDIL EXPERIMENT/TRIAL, posted by atypical on January 12, 2020, at 23:38:22

> > Why doesn't simply taking more Nardil fix the problem?
>
> I think if jt is not getting absorbed properly in the first place, increasing the dose will not help. Sort of like filling a cup with a big hole in it. The water never fills up, even if you increase the amount of water being poured.
>

If the bioavailability of ("new") Nardil were 0%, you would be right. For example, hypothetically, if the bioavailability of old Nardil were 100% and only 50% for the new Nardil, then taking the double amount of new Nardil would be equivalent to taking a normal dose of the old Nardil.

-undopaminergic

 

Re: AUGMENTATION OF NARDIL EXPERIMENT/TRIAL

Posted by Lamdage22 on January 13, 2020, at 3:31:21

In reply to Re: AUGMENTATION OF NARDIL EXPERIMENT/TRIAL, posted by undopaminergic on January 13, 2020, at 3:15:31

When I took in excess of 90mg Nardil, I went hypertensive. 180 or 190. So... do you know what I am trying to say?

 

Re: AUGMENTATION OF NARDIL EXPERIMENT/TRIAL

Posted by undopaminergic on January 13, 2020, at 3:40:17

In reply to Re: AUGMENTATION OF NARDIL EXPERIMENT/TRIAL, posted by Lamdage22 on January 13, 2020, at 3:31:21

> When I took in excess of 90mg Nardil, I went hypertensive. 180 or 190. So... do you know what I am trying to say?
>

I suppose you're suggesting that taking higher doses of Nardil can be risky. But if bioavailability were only 50% of normal, you could take double the normal dose without getting more phenelzine into your circulation.

-undopaminergic

 

Re: AUGMENTATION OF NARDIL EXPERIMENT/TRIAL

Posted by Lamdage22 on January 13, 2020, at 3:41:42

In reply to Re: AUGMENTATION OF NARDIL EXPERIMENT/TRIAL, posted by undopaminergic on January 13, 2020, at 3:40:17

I think if there is a problem, it can be fixed by taking more. It might be a waste of time and energy to try to make the old Nardil.

 

Re: AUGMENTATION OF NARDIL EXPERIMENT/TRIAL

Posted by undopaminergic on January 13, 2020, at 3:52:50

In reply to Re: AUGMENTATION OF NARDIL EXPERIMENT/TRIAL, posted by Lamdage22 on January 13, 2020, at 3:41:42

> I think if there is a problem, it can be fixed by taking more. It might be a waste of time and energy to try to make the old Nardil.
>

I'm also wondering whether there might be a bit of placebo at play here.

-undopaminergic

 

Re: AUGMENTATION OF NARDIL EXPERIMENT/TRIAL

Posted by greg rizzo on January 13, 2020, at 3:59:58

In reply to Re: AUGMENTATION OF NARDIL EXPERIMENT/TRIAL, posted by Lamdage22 on January 12, 2020, at 13:23:42

Seems not to help because no matter how much you take, it is broken down by the acidic nature of the stomach and then I believe it is processed and excreted by the liver. It never gets the chance to get to the int6estinal tract where effective absorption occurs.

 

Re: AUGMENTATION OF NARDIL EXPERIMENT/TRIAL

Posted by greg rizzo on January 13, 2020, at 4:01:32

In reply to Re: AUGMENTATION OF NARDIL EXPERIMENT/TRIAL, posted by atypical on January 12, 2020, at 23:38:22

CORRECT ATYPICAL.

 

Re: AUGMENTATION OF NARDIL EXPERIMENT/TRIAL

Posted by greg rizzo on January 13, 2020, at 4:06:02

In reply to Re: AUGMENTATION OF NARDIL EXPERIMENT/TRIAL, posted by Lamdage22 on January 13, 2020, at 3:31:21

Yes I do and the question is: did you enjoy your hypertensive crisis that could have ended your luife?
Would you like to try that dose again and end up in th ER or worse.

 

Re: AUGMENTATION OF NARDIL EXPERIMENT/TRIAL

Posted by Lamdage22 on January 13, 2020, at 4:08:58

In reply to Re: AUGMENTATION OF NARDIL EXPERIMENT/TRIAL, posted by greg rizzo on January 13, 2020, at 4:06:02

Relax, I just took some nifedipine. It's not like I just waited for it to pass.

 

Re: AUGMENTATION OF NARDIL EXPERIMENT/TRIAL

Posted by Lamdage22 on January 13, 2020, at 4:09:42

In reply to Re: AUGMENTATION OF NARDIL EXPERIMENT/TRIAL, posted by undopaminergic on January 13, 2020, at 3:52:50

That is my suspicion, also.

> I'm also wondering whether there might be a bit of placebo at play here.
>
> -undopaminergic
>

 

Re: AUGMENTATION OF NARDIL EXPERIMENT/TRIAL

Posted by greg rizzo on January 13, 2020, at 4:12:48

In reply to Re: AUGMENTATION OF NARDIL EXPERIMENT/TRIAL, posted by undopaminergic on January 13, 2020, at 3:40:17

I don't know about that. I get your theory but I just know if doing this and risking a hypertensive crisis is likely not worth the risk.

Good point that you make. I'll confess I just don't the answer you're looking for.


Go forward in thread:


Show another thread

URL of post in thread:


Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ


[dr. bob] Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD, bob@dr-bob.org

Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.