Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 1107702

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Re: Best med for complex-PTSD?

Posted by Lamdage22 on January 6, 2020, at 2:54:18

In reply to Best med for complex-PTSD?, posted by Limone on January 5, 2020, at 16:16:35

Do you have nightmares? I heard about Prazosin for PTSD.

 

Re: Best med for complex-PTSD? » rjlockhart37

Posted by Limone on January 6, 2020, at 6:39:46

In reply to Re: Best med for complex-PTSD?, posted by rjlockhart37 on January 5, 2020, at 23:48:55

Hi! Hope you're doing ok- I remember you from the mid-00s! thanks for the response.

Yeah, I'd actually love nothing more than to get prescribed some Adderall/benzo combo, but that ain't happening anytime soon (or ever from a GP in the UK in the NHS). I really do think I have some kind of ADD, it's been a constant battle my whole life. Again, I'm not sure my GP would prescribe a mood stabiliser, I'd have to go through the round of more conventional anti-d's first. But worthy suggestions, thank you.

 

Re: Best med for complex-PTSD? » Lamdage22

Posted by Limone on January 6, 2020, at 6:51:10

In reply to Re: Best med for complex-PTSD?, posted by Lamdage22 on January 6, 2020, at 2:54:18

> Do you have nightmares? I heard about Prazosin for PTSD.

No nightmares really. But I have heard of it when I trawled the Dr-Bob archives, SLS mentioned it. I'm hoping someone might turn up who has had some real world experience for it.

It might take some serious persuasion on my part to get my GP to prescribe it. The studies do look interesting, I might have another look and ponder, thanks.

As an aside, I'm loving your blueberry recommendation! Ive started 150g/day. When I had a quick google, it would appear that all kinds of berries (inc strawberries IIRC) inhibit MAOI reuptake. Fascinating! I knew about coffee/green tea but not berries. It's probably one of the reasons (amongst many) that the Mediterranean diet is thought to confer protection against neurodegenerative disease. And also, you're supposed to feel better when you eat healthy, right?!

 

Re: Best med for complex-PTSD?

Posted by undopaminergic on January 6, 2020, at 8:06:59

In reply to Best med for complex-PTSD?, posted by Limone on January 5, 2020, at 16:16:35

> Long story short, need to find a med to suggest to my GP to help with depression/anxiety caused by (self-diagnosed) c-ptsd. I would say that t would need something to reduce that feeling of dread that something bad is about to happen. And anything that gives me more motivation. I have serious problems with attention/motivation.
>

In that case, for several reasons, a stimulant would seem ideal.

> So. Buspar for c-ptsd?

I don't know, but would say it's worth trying if you can't get stimulants.

> Mocledebide (stopped as got too anxious due to the food interactions stuff, which is ridiculous looking back)
>

Did it work?

> Speed (calmed me down and gave me a general sense of well-being

If it calmed you down, you may have ADHD. This substance would seem your best choice, but of course it can be hard to get it prescribed.

> Coke (I've been usually drunk at the same time so but gives me a high etc).
>

Maybe if you try using it orally. Then there will be less of a high, and a dose may last longer. Of course you can't get this prescribed, and it may also be too expensive for daily use.

> Codeine (once got this after an op and I loved the warm fuzzy safe feeling I got).
>

Me too. It is ideal for anxiety and depression, but tolerance and dependence are likely in the longer term. Maybe if you take regular "drug holidays" off from it. Alternatively, memantine or ketamine may prevent tolerance and potentiate the effects. Opioid rotation is another strategy for maintaining efficacy in the longer term. But it is probably hard to get it prescribed for mental disorders.

I would also suggest that Nardil (phenelzine) could be a choice, but most doctors won't subscribe classic (irreversible unselective) MAOIs.

Some GABAergic anticonvulsants may work, especially for anxiety. Eg. gabapentin and pregabalin.

-undopaminergic

 

Re: Best med for complex-PTSD?

Posted by undopaminergic on January 6, 2020, at 8:32:21

In reply to Re: Best med for complex-PTSD?, posted by Hugh on January 5, 2020, at 17:25:40

> For your PTSD, you might try the beta blocker propranolol (Inderal). This quote is from The Atlantic:
>

Or maybe pindolol, which is an unselective beta-adrenergic antagonist like propranolol. It has found use in depression, because it may disinhibit serotonin-release through antagonism of presynaptic 5-HT1A-autoreceptors.

-undopaminergic

 

Re: Best med for complex-PTSD?

Posted by Lamdage22 on January 6, 2020, at 9:28:55

In reply to Re: Best med for complex-PTSD? » Lamdage22, posted by Limone on January 6, 2020, at 6:51:10

I remember that SLS took it but I forgot what his verdict is. I think he will be happy to tell you!

Please let me know how you like the Blueberries. I thought it was the polyphenols that help. It took some time before I realized I was doing better. Roughly 3 weeks. It doesn't "kick in" like antidepressants do when they work. After a while, I just realized I have been doing more things with more motivation and had little idea why. I went off of the blueberries 3 times and I felt awful almost immediately. Then I have felt improved after I have continued it again.

I came across this phenomenon accidentally. I didn't think it would do anything for my mental health. Luckily it does and I have found out.

Supplements and food can work!

> As an aside, I'm loving your blueberry recommendation! Ive started 150g/day. When I had a quick google, it would appear that all kinds of berries (inc strawberries IIRC) inhibit MAOI reuptake. Fascinating! I knew about coffee/green tea but not berries. It's probably one of the reasons (amongst many) that the Mediterranean diet is thought to confer protection against neurodegenerative disease. And also, you're supposed to feel better when you eat healthy, right?!
>
>

 

Re: Best med for complex-PTSD? » Lamdage22

Posted by undopaminergic on January 6, 2020, at 11:49:55

In reply to Re: Best med for complex-PTSD?, posted by Lamdage22 on January 6, 2020, at 9:28:55

>
> Please let me know how you like the Blueberries. I thought it was the polyphenols that help.
>

There is something called anthocyanins. They are high in bilberries (European blueberry), but lower in American blueberries, so I don't know if this is relevant.

It would be interesting if you were to try bilberries for comparison. If it's the anthocyanins, then bilberries will be more potent.

Here are some interesting pictures with diagrams.
https://www.google.com/search?q=blueberry+vs+bilberry+anthocyanins&tbm=isch

About nutritional content in general:
https://www.google.com/search?q=blueberry+vs+bilberry+nutrition

> It took some time before I realized I was doing better. Roughly 3 weeks. It doesn't "kick in" like antidepressants do when they work. After a while, I just realized I have been doing more things with more motivation and had little idea why. I went off of the blueberries 3 times and I felt awful almost immediately. Then I have felt improved after I have continued it again.
>

Very interesting!

I love blueberries (European at least), as a food. They are some of the best-tasting berries I know. I have never made a consistent habit of taking them daily, which may account for my lack of observed health effects.

I eat them fresh, or frozen and thawed. I've also tried some tablets made from them. Usually fresh foods are more "potent" but it appears from one study that freezing preserves the anthocyanins:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1082901/
"the frozen samples did not show any significant decrease in anthocyanin level during three months of storage."

>
> Supplements and food can work!
>

Yes, it happens sometimes. Perhaps the problem is that there are so many to choose from and there is not enough research to guide our choices.

Based on my experience, I can guarantee that huperzine A is more potent than many (or most) drugs, but you could say it is itself a drug, and you would be right. It improved memory, especially dream recall, but I felt it was too strong(!), causing retention of memories that were not worth remembering. If I recall correctly, I took it as an extract of the Chinese moss in which is occurs naturally.

I suggest that huperzine A and other centrally (CNS) active acetylcholinesterase inhibitors can be valuable as facilitators of dream interpretation.

-undopaminergic

 

Re: Best med for complex-PTSD? » Limone

Posted by SLS on January 6, 2020, at 13:52:50

In reply to Best med for complex-PTSD?, posted by Limone on January 5, 2020, at 16:16:35

> Hi all,
>
> I used to come here quite a lot in the mid-00s (I can't remember my posting name), so recognise quite a few of the names on here now.
>
> Long story short, need to find a med to suggest to my GP to help with depression/anxiety caused by (self-diagnosed) c-ptsd. I would say that t would need something to reduce that feeling of dread that something bad is about to happen. And anything that gives me more motivation. I have serious problems with attention/motivation.

I think prazosin (Minipress) is worth considering. It was originally marketed as a drug to treat hypertension, but it was found many years later to work in treating PTSD. Although it was initially used only at night to help with nightmares, some researchers reported that it helped with anxiety and depression if given during the day, too. I found that prazosin acted as an antidepressant for me when added to other medications. The genesis of my condition likely involves C-PTSD and childhood adversity.

I benefited from prazosin once I established a dosage of 30 mg/day (10 mg t.i.d.). Treatment should be initiated as a single dose of 1-2 mg immediately before bed, otherwise syncope and fainting can arise. Thereafter, a moderate titration should be okay. Take the time to review the medical literature.


- Scott

 

Re: Best med for complex-PTSD?

Posted by Lamdage22 on January 6, 2020, at 14:01:43

In reply to Re: Best med for complex-PTSD? » Lamdage22, posted by undopaminergic on January 6, 2020, at 11:49:55

I am looking into it. Thanks for mentioning! My memory could be better

>huperzine A

 

Re: Best med for complex-PTSD?

Posted by Hugh on January 8, 2020, at 0:28:29

In reply to Best med for complex-PTSD?, posted by Limone on January 5, 2020, at 16:16:35

undopaminergic's suggestion of pindolol is a good one. Here's a thread that discusses pindolol:

http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20191019/msgs/1107190.html

Pindolol is something that you would take daily, so before starting it, I'd suggest giving propranolol a try. You would take 80 mg of propranolol once or twice a week, for a total of about six sessions of ameliorating your painful memories.

 

Re: Best med for complex-PTSD?

Posted by rjlockhart37 on January 8, 2020, at 0:46:43

In reply to Re: Best med for complex-PTSD?, posted by Hugh on January 8, 2020, at 0:28:29

Neurontin or Lyrica you could ask you doctor about, i know were here, doctors but we do have good suggestions, but it ... only can be decided by doctor. Gabapentin is a good anxiety reliever just like propranolol except with less potency in blocking norepinephrine and epinephrine. Also even a neuroleptic med like risperdal or a short acting antipsychotic med could help memories from being suppressed.

 

Re: Best med for complex-PTSD?

Posted by undopaminergic on January 8, 2020, at 2:53:00

In reply to Re: Best med for complex-PTSD?, posted by rjlockhart37 on January 8, 2020, at 0:46:43

>
>
> Also even a neuroleptic med like risperdal or a short acting antipsychotic med could help memories from being suppressed.
>

Not as far as I'm aware, including both personal experience and the literature.

-undopaminergic

 

Re: Best med for complex-PTSD? » undopaminergic

Posted by Limone on January 8, 2020, at 17:47:54

In reply to Re: Best med for complex-PTSD?, posted by undopaminergic on January 6, 2020, at 8:06:59

Yeah can't get anything 'exotic' medication wise from our GP (no nardil, stimulants, benzos or anything) so I'll to stick with buspar and beta blockers I think. My depression is manageable with self help groups/literature etc but I could do with something to quell anxieties when I freak out about something unmanageable etc.

 

Re: Best med for complex-PTSD? » undopaminergic

Posted by Limone on January 8, 2020, at 17:50:21

In reply to Re: Best med for complex-PTSD?, posted by undopaminergic on January 6, 2020, at 8:32:21

> > For your PTSD, you might try the beta blocker propranolol
> Or maybe pindolol, which is an unselective beta-adrenergic antagonist like propranolol. It has found use in depression, because it may disinhibit serotonin-release through antagonism of presynaptic 5-HT1A-autoreceptors.

Will suggest both to my GP! Eeeek not sure I'd like to try a beta blocker- they can't make you faint?! I'll give it a go.

 

Re: Best med for complex-PTSD?

Posted by Limone on January 8, 2020, at 17:53:39

In reply to Re: Best med for complex-PTSD?, posted by Lamdage22 on January 6, 2020, at 9:28:55

> Please let me know how you like the Blueberries. I thought it was the polyphenols that help. It took some time before I

Will do. Although I forgot to eat them this morning. I think eating them for breakfast with a cup of black coffee (wild hunch!) is the best for anti-depressant effect.

> I came across this phenomenon accidentally. I didn't think it would do anything for my mental health. Luckily it does and I have found out

Good to hear. Can't hurt, right?!

 

Re: Best med for complex-PTSD? » undopaminergic

Posted by Limone on January 8, 2020, at 18:04:16

In reply to Re: Best med for complex-PTSD? » Lamdage22, posted by undopaminergic on January 6, 2020, at 11:49:55

Love bilberries! More than blueberries, but unfortunately I can only get blueberries here in the UK. However, my family are from the Nordics countries, so I'm very familiar with bilberries! I think my mother even bought a second freezer so she could freeze all the bilberries she'd been picking where she lives.

Totally agree bilberries are superior on the phyto-chemical front.

 

Re: Best med for complex-PTSD)Lamdage22 » Limone

Posted by Limone on January 8, 2020, at 18:10:05

In reply to Re: Best med for complex-PTSD?, posted by Limone on January 8, 2020, at 17:53:39

For Lamdage22:

> > Please let me know how you like the Blueberries. I thought it was the polyphenols that help. It took some time before I
>
> Will do. Although I forgot to eat them this morning. I think eating them for breakfast with a cup of black coffee (wild hunch!) is the best for anti-depressant effect.
>
> > I came across this phenomenon accidentally. I didn't think it would do anything for my mental health. Luckily it does and I have found out
>
> Good to hear. Can't hurt, right?!
>
>

 

Re: Best med for complex-PTSD? » Limone

Posted by undopaminergic on January 9, 2020, at 2:53:08

In reply to Re: Best med for complex-PTSD? » undopaminergic, posted by Limone on January 8, 2020, at 17:50:21

>
> Will suggest both to my GP! Eeeek not sure I'd like to try a beta blocker- they can't make you faint?! I'll give it a go.
>

I've been on bisoprolol for years (for tachycardia), and I've never fainted from it, but I do often feel dizzy when I stand up after a while sitting, lying, or squatting. To avoid fainting, I stand still for a few seconds to allow the blood pressure to normalise.

In the worst case, you could take a pressor, such as ephedrine, at the same time as the beta-blocker, to counteract the hypotensive effects.

-undopaminergic

 

Re: Best med for complex-PTSD?

Posted by Lamdage22 on January 10, 2020, at 9:18:32

In reply to Re: Best med for complex-PTSD? » undopaminergic, posted by Limone on January 8, 2020, at 18:04:16

What is the difference between a bilberry and a blueberry?

 

Re: Best med for complex-PTSD? » Lamdage22

Posted by Limone on January 10, 2020, at 10:03:10

In reply to Re: Best med for complex-PTSD?, posted by Lamdage22 on January 10, 2020, at 9:18:32

> What is the difference between a bilberry and a blueberry?

It's a very good question!

Blueberries are bigger and more fleshy, and when you squish them they are mostly clear on the inside. The bushes they grow on are much bigger and bushier.

Bilberries are much smaller, more 'dense', and when you squish them they are very dark purple. They grow wild in the pine forests in the Nordic countries of Europe (and I expect elsewhere in similar conditions, maybe Canada has them?)

This is good;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilberry

 

Re: Best med for complex-PTSD?

Posted by Hugh on January 10, 2020, at 10:18:09

In reply to Re: Best med for complex-PTSD? » Limone, posted by undopaminergic on January 9, 2020, at 2:53:08

I've been taking beta-blockers, propranolol and then atenolol, for palpitations for years. They don't make me dizzy, and don't seem to have much effect on my blood pressure, which is normal, with or without beta-blockers.

 

Re: Best med for complex-PTSD?

Posted by Lamdage22 on January 10, 2020, at 10:41:41

In reply to Re: Best med for complex-PTSD? » Lamdage22, posted by Limone on January 10, 2020, at 10:03:10

So bilberries are like wild blueberries? Funny that you have a separate name for them. We would just call them wild blueberries over here.

 

Re: Best med for complex-PTSD? » Lamdage22

Posted by undopaminergic on January 10, 2020, at 10:42:09

In reply to Re: Best med for complex-PTSD?, posted by Lamdage22 on January 10, 2020, at 9:18:32

> What is the difference between a bilberry and a blueberry?

For a partial answer, follow the Google links from my previous reply to this thread:
https://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20200104/msgs/1107724.html

-undopaminergic

 

Re: Best med for complex-PTSD?

Posted by undopaminergic on January 10, 2020, at 10:45:52

In reply to Re: Best med for complex-PTSD?, posted by Lamdage22 on January 10, 2020, at 10:41:41

> So bilberries are like wild blueberries? Funny that you have a separate name for them. We would just call them wild blueberries over here.
>

In Swedish we call bilberries blueberries ("blåbär"). I don't know if there is a Swedish word for American blueberries.

-undopaminergic

 

Venlafaxine it is : (

Posted by Limone on January 10, 2020, at 13:23:02

In reply to Re: Best med for complex-PTSD?, posted by Lamdage22 on January 10, 2020, at 9:18:32

Hi all,
Well. In the end my GP wouldn't prescribe Buspirone. Apparently GPs and pdocs don't use it here in the U.K. : (

He wouldn't even let me think about a beta-blocker either. Really wanted me on Escitalopram despite me saying that when I was on citalopram I slept 16hrs a day, and that no way I could function on that with a mentally taxing job (I'm off sick at the mo though), a house to run and oh, an child to take care of.

So I managed to say that venlafaxine was the least worst anti-depressant that I've tried so he gave me a prescription of 37.5mgs. Blah!

I'm not certain I'm going to take it through. I find the effects of AD medication problematic. Which is why I wanted to try buspirone.


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