Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 1107447

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Re: Giving SAMe a try

Posted by PeterMartin on December 26, 2019, at 14:28:24

In reply to Giving SAMe a try, posted by linkadge on December 26, 2019, at 10:05:39

If you're BP be mindful of feeling "too good".

It was part of a cocktail I was taking in my early 20s that led to my first very serious manic episode. I believe marijuana was a big factor (as I never took SAMe again but had smoked often prior to marijuana episodes after).

I still found it very potent and there is a noted risk of mania for those who are susceptible.

That said glad you are feeling better - definitely be optimistic. It did elevate my mood.

 

Re: Giving SAMe a try

Posted by rjlockhart37 on December 26, 2019, at 16:54:05

In reply to Re: Giving SAMe a try, posted by PeterMartin on December 26, 2019, at 14:28:24

it's good, but it does say watch out it can cause mania, in mood conditions. I've been on it, it does improve mood somewhat, some days were ok, others where like i don't want to take it anymore.

But it is a good mood supplement, also good for joints and pain

 

Re: Giving SAMe a try » rjlockhart37

Posted by linkadge on December 26, 2019, at 17:28:11

In reply to Re: Giving SAMe a try, posted by rjlockhart37 on December 26, 2019, at 16:54:05

Funny you mention marijuana as I am taking that as well. Basically, I took 200mg of SAM-e today and use a bit of cannabis at night.

I have taken 300mg of lithium for a few weeks now. Sometimes I stop this as I get feeling too tired.

Do you recall what other meds you were on when you had the manic episode?

I have been pretty depressed for the past few weeks (mostly low mood and energy). I don't really think I have bipolar, but who knows. I did notice mood improvement, but it just was the first day.

I can't go beyond 200mg as it is costly.

Linkadge

 

Re: Above message for peter (nm)

Posted by linkadge on December 26, 2019, at 17:29:23

In reply to Re: Giving SAMe a try » rjlockhart37, posted by linkadge on December 26, 2019, at 17:28:11

 

Re: Giving SAMe a try

Posted by PeterMartin on December 27, 2019, at 2:04:14

In reply to Re: Giving SAMe a try » rjlockhart37, posted by linkadge on December 26, 2019, at 17:28:11

I've read studies w/in the past 4 or 5yrs that have found there's a certain subset of people who are risk for psychosis from marijuana. It generally happens in their 20s (as it did me) - I wasn't a smoker before 18. I was also in a Canadian city where the potency of pot was extremely high. That raises the risk for someone w/ the potential for psychosis to switch over (https://medicalxpress.com/news/2019-03-high-potency-pot-strongly-linked.html).

I was smoking very strong marijuana (had for over a year), was taking SAM-e, and also taking Ritalin. On top of that I was living alone and spent most of my time in my apartment.

If you're past your 20s and having had an extreme manic episode I'd think your risk is low.

For me, I continued smoking pot for 10yrs. Was hospitalized a number of times due to mania. Pot was almost always in my system. I've only had one episode after 100% giving up pot (and alcohol) in 2009. I attribute that to stopping an MAOi and starting Belviq. For some reason the Belviq (anti-obesity drug that targets a 5HT receptor) set me off. The DEA did note that there is a risk of psychosis w/ high dosages of that. I think I'm just very susceptible - perhaps since I had that switch in my 20s.....

Just be aware that there is a possibility. Sam-e raises the levels of neurotransmitters.

 

Re: Giving SAMe a try

Posted by undopaminergic on December 27, 2019, at 10:42:04

In reply to Giving SAMe a try, posted by linkadge on December 26, 2019, at 10:05:39

> This supplement generally gets good reviews. I have never taken it (mainly cost), but it has come down in price a bit. I got some 200mg and took one this morning.
>
> I have definitely noticed an effect on energy and a bit of improvement in mood. I'll take whatever I can get at the moment.
>

I'm glad to hear it is working for you. It didn't for me, even though I used the most bioavailable (and expensive) form, which is enteric coated tablets.

For the record, SAMe stands for S-Adenosyl Methionine. Because it's "Methionine" and not "M-ethionine", the term "SAM-e" is erroneous.

The idea behind using it is to elevate the levels of certain neurotransmitters. It seems particularly potent in increasing dopamine:
https://www.fasebj.org/doi/abs/10.1096/fasebj.29.1_supplement.134.3

-undopaminergic

 

Re: Giving SAMe a try » PeterMartin

Posted by linkadge on December 27, 2019, at 10:46:51

In reply to Re: Giving SAMe a try, posted by PeterMartin on December 27, 2019, at 2:04:14

Thanks for clarification.

Yeah, I can see how the triple dopamine boost (Ritalin, SAM-e and POT) could definitely be a trigger.

I don't think I have had a manic episode (certainly nothing treatment emergent). I am still so incredibly pessimistic about my future that I think it would take a lot to make me manic.

I have been using medical marijuanna. I have used some higher strain versions (ghost train haze ~22%), but low quantities of this. As medical, it can still be high in THC (depending on what you buy) but it isn't tainted with anything).

I've been hospitalized for depression, but not mania.

Linkadge

 

Re: Giving SAMe a try » linkadge

Posted by undopaminergic on December 27, 2019, at 11:21:27

In reply to Re: Giving SAMe a try » PeterMartin, posted by linkadge on December 27, 2019, at 10:46:51

>
> I don't think I have had a manic episode (certainly nothing treatment emergent). I am still so incredibly pessimistic about my future that I think it would take a lot to make me manic.
>

For me, depressed since the end of 1999, it took so little to make me manic, that I don't even know what it was. If I knew, I would try to recreate it. I know one thing may have been methylphenidate *cessation*. It does not necessarily make sense.

Being pessimistic enough to think suicidal thoughts was relieved almost instantly for me with the help of stimulants (cocaine-like). That's how little it takes to change your mind!

-undopaminergic

 

Re: Giving SAMe a try

Posted by linkadge on December 27, 2019, at 17:28:19

In reply to Re: Giving SAMe a try » linkadge, posted by undopaminergic on December 27, 2019, at 11:21:27

Lately my mind has been craving longer term relief. Some of the 'feel good' meds help in a pinch, but there are some issues (employment) that I just can't get around.

Linkadge

 

Re: Giving SAMe a try

Posted by Lamdage22 on December 28, 2019, at 5:32:08

In reply to Re: Giving SAMe a try, posted by linkadge on December 27, 2019, at 17:28:19

Some supplements can work in concert. Alone the effects are mild but together they can make a big difference!

 

Re: Giving SAMe a try » linkadge

Posted by undopaminergic on December 29, 2019, at 9:11:53

In reply to Re: Giving SAMe a try, posted by linkadge on December 27, 2019, at 17:28:19

> Lately my mind has been craving longer term relief. Some of the 'feel good' meds help in a pinch, but there are some issues (employment) that I just can't get around.
>
> Linkadge

I'm on a disability pension. Maybe you could get a sick leave? It wasn't hard for me; in fact my doctor took the initiative (and then she put me on mirtazapine, haha).

-undopaminergic

 

Re: Giving SAMe a try » undopaminergic

Posted by linkadge on December 29, 2019, at 13:35:49

In reply to Re: Giving SAMe a try » linkadge, posted by undopaminergic on December 29, 2019, at 9:11:53

I work as a 'temp' in Canada's public sector. You can take a leave, but there is zero financial support and I likely wouldn't get recalled (i.e. lose my job permanently). Zero benefits.

Interestingly, I am still somewhat functional, but completely hopeless and (off and on) suicidal.

Linkadge

 

Re: Giving SAMe a try » undopaminergic

Posted by sigismund on December 29, 2019, at 15:45:56

In reply to Re: Giving SAMe a try » linkadge, posted by undopaminergic on December 29, 2019, at 9:11:53

>she put me on mirtazapine, haha

How did you find that?

 

Re: Giving SAMe a try » sigismund

Posted by undopaminergic on December 29, 2019, at 20:08:27

In reply to Re: Giving SAMe a try » undopaminergic, posted by sigismund on December 29, 2019, at 15:45:56

> >she put me on mirtazapine, haha
>
> How did you find that?

My heart rate increased, and at one point I felt some sort of cramp in my neck muscles. No benefit was noticed.

-undopaminergic

 

Re: Giving SAMe a try » linkadge

Posted by undopaminergic on December 29, 2019, at 20:18:24

In reply to Re: Giving SAMe a try » undopaminergic, posted by linkadge on December 29, 2019, at 13:35:49

> I work as a 'temp' in Canada's public sector. You can take a leave, but there is zero financial support and I likely wouldn't get recalled (i.e. lose my job permanently). Zero benefits.
>

So Canada does not have any social security? Where I live, with a doctor's signature you can go on sick leave and you get a monthly payment. After some time you get a disability pension, but that's pretty much just another name for the same thing. We also have unemployment benefits.

> Interestingly, I am still somewhat functional, but completely hopeless and (off and on) suicidal.
>

I'm the opposite, being rather dysfunctional but in a pretty good mood most of the time.

-undopaminergic

 

Re: SAM-E TURNED ON ME!!

Posted by linkadge on December 30, 2019, at 7:40:10

In reply to Re: Giving SAMe a try » linkadge, posted by undopaminergic on December 29, 2019, at 20:18:24

So, I was feeling a bit better for the first few days on SAM-E. However, in the last 2, I have just been feeling MUCH more irritable and my moods have been quite a bit darker.

I don't think this is for me!!

Linkadge

 

Re: Giving SAMe a try » undopaminergic

Posted by linkadge on December 30, 2019, at 7:41:54

In reply to Re: Giving SAMe a try » sigismund, posted by undopaminergic on December 29, 2019, at 20:08:27

I don't mind low dose mirtazapine (<7.5mg) (mostly as a sleep aid). It didn't do a whole lot for me as a sole antidepressant (besides improved sleep). My sadness or overall 'impairment' was not improved.

Linkadge

 

Re: Giving SAMe a try

Posted by Lamdage22 on December 30, 2019, at 8:38:09

In reply to Re: Giving SAMe a try » undopaminergic, posted by linkadge on December 30, 2019, at 7:41:54

Im sorry to hear it. SAM-e didnt agree with me either. In a similar way.

 

Re: Giving SAMe a try

Posted by linkadge on December 30, 2019, at 11:43:27

In reply to Re: Giving SAMe a try, posted by Lamdage22 on December 30, 2019, at 8:38:09

I very quickly became irritable and antisocial (not wanting to talk to anybody). I had to take an antipsychotic and clonazepam to get to sleep last night.

Crazy.

Linkadge

 

Re: Giving SAMe a try

Posted by Lamdage22 on December 30, 2019, at 11:59:18

In reply to Re: Giving SAMe a try, posted by linkadge on December 30, 2019, at 11:43:27

It did that to mee, too. Experiments carry risk

 

Re: Giving SAMe a try

Posted by Lamdage22 on December 30, 2019, at 12:48:18

In reply to Re: Giving SAMe a try, posted by linkadge on December 30, 2019, at 11:43:27

The most helpful supplements to me are Vitamin D3, Blueberries and Boswellia

 

Re: Giving SAMe a try

Posted by undopaminergic on December 30, 2019, at 14:46:12

In reply to Re: Giving SAMe a try, posted by Lamdage22 on December 30, 2019, at 12:48:18

> The most helpful supplements to me are Vitamin D3, Blueberries and Boswellia

I tried the former two, but noticed no therapeutic effects. That said, I love bilberries (European blueberries).

How have these substances helped you?

-undopaminergic

 

Re: Giving SAMe a try

Posted by Lamdage22 on December 31, 2019, at 1:46:28

In reply to Re: Giving SAMe a try, posted by undopaminergic on December 30, 2019, at 14:46:12

Vitamin D helps against the winter blues and Blueberries help for mood and motivation.

 

Re: Giving SAMe a try

Posted by linkadge on December 31, 2019, at 7:57:36

In reply to Re: Giving SAMe a try, posted by Lamdage22 on December 31, 2019, at 1:46:28

I would agree with blueberries. They can improve age related declines in dopamine function. The anthocyanins are MAO-B inhibitors (amongst other things). I was getting a good effect from a concentrated blueberry extract, but it was expensive.

Linkadge

 

Re: Giving SAMe a try

Posted by Lamdage22 on December 31, 2019, at 16:44:32

In reply to Re: Giving SAMe a try, posted by linkadge on December 31, 2019, at 7:57:36

I get the effect from plain old blueberries. 150g daily.


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