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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 11 to 35 of 35. Go back in thread:
Posted by Jeroen on July 17, 2016, at 6:37:28
In reply to Re: there are no treatments for neg symptoms!!!!!!!, posted by Lamdage22 on July 17, 2016, at 6:16:22
SSRI don't treat negative symp of schizo
and they are for "depression"
Posted by SLS on July 17, 2016, at 6:42:27
In reply to Re: i suffer from severe neg symptoms and depression » Jeroen, posted by MuseMemento on July 16, 2016, at 23:16:51
> Checkout information at examine.com They review herbal and natural supplements. What they have to say about both NAC and Sarcosine sound really positive. I've tried them both but only briefly. I really need to be more diligent in taking them to be able to say.
I don't know about schizophrenia, but in depression, NAC can take months to work. I imagine it is worth a try.
- Scott
Posted by Jeroen on July 17, 2016, at 7:22:42
In reply to Re: i suffer from severe neg symptoms and depression » MuseMemento, posted by SLS on July 17, 2016, at 6:42:27
Sarcosine works fast, cuz i tried Glycine itself
Posted by SLS on July 17, 2016, at 7:24:20
In reply to SSRI don't treat negative symp of schizo, posted by Jeroen on July 17, 2016, at 6:37:28
> SSRI don't treat negative symp of schizo
> and they are for "depression"Have you tried sulpiride (Dogmatil) or amisulpride (Solian)?
- Scott
Posted by Jeroen on July 17, 2016, at 7:27:01
In reply to Re: SSRI don't treat negative symp of schizo » Jeroen, posted by SLS on July 17, 2016, at 7:24:20
Solian gave me worse side effects imaginable
Dogmatil worked somewhat in low doses, in high doses it gave me pannick attacksfuilty s*** meds
Posted by Lamdage22 on July 17, 2016, at 7:28:32
In reply to both yes, posted by Jeroen on July 17, 2016, at 7:27:01
It is worth to try Antidepressants
Posted by Lamdage22 on July 17, 2016, at 7:35:30
In reply to Re: both yes, posted by Lamdage22 on July 17, 2016, at 7:28:32
Im not sure what makes you say "negative symptoms" other than the fact that you once had psychosis or that you are being treated for psychosis.
Posted by Lamdage22 on July 17, 2016, at 7:35:56
In reply to Re: both yes, posted by Lamdage22 on July 17, 2016, at 7:35:30
I think the term "negative symptoms" is misleading.
Posted by Jeroen on July 17, 2016, at 7:36:17
In reply to Re: both yes, posted by Lamdage22 on July 17, 2016, at 7:28:32
not when you have lamictal induced psychosis mania
it's confirmed i have this, if i take anti depressant it wont mix with the brain damage i received by psychiatry
Lou come into this conversation please
Posted by linkadge on July 17, 2016, at 7:37:19
In reply to both yes, posted by Jeroen on July 17, 2016, at 7:27:01
Depression and negative symptoms are not the exact same thing. Depression can be considered a negative symptom, but other negative symptoms (i.e. cognitive difficulty) may not be the result of depression and may not resolve with treatment for depression.
Stimulants, may improve attention, but could worsen the underlying disorder. However, I remember reading that coffee drinking schizophrenics fared better on some tests of negative symptoms.
I agree with SLS that some alternatives could be worth a try - I understand the omega-3 EPA, has some research behind it.
Linkadge
Posted by Lamdage22 on July 17, 2016, at 7:44:54
In reply to Re: both yes, posted by linkadge on July 17, 2016, at 7:37:19
> Depression and negative symptoms are not the exact same thing. Depression can be considered a negative symptom, but other negative symptoms (i.e. cognitive difficulty) may not be the result of depression and may not resolve with treatment for depression.
MAY. Depression is depression.
Posted by Lamdage22 on July 17, 2016, at 7:47:45
In reply to Re: both yes, posted by Lamdage22 on July 17, 2016, at 7:44:54
Depression may also not be resolved by Antidepressants.. so...
im not sure what you are trying to imply.
Posted by jonhed on July 17, 2016, at 14:30:14
In reply to not when you have lamictal induced psychosis mania, posted by Jeroen on July 17, 2016, at 7:36:17
We believe you jeroen.. We do not need lou to say that mr hisuing is preventing him from sending out his message about death and antisemitism to believe you more! :-)
have you tried vraylar or rexulti?
or else i think you could try sarcosine and NAC.
But why not try memantine, that is a medication to prevent and reduce cognitive problems caused by schizophrenia/dementia or as i think to, Negative symptoms that are a result of AP-medications.
It basically has no harmful side effects on the younger population, so why not give it a try.
I have negative symptoms to and have been treated very bad from the psychiatry for many years and i feel much difference in my cognition and thinking on memantine. :-)
I think we just want to help you!
And thanks for the magix tip, i use it right now!
Posted by Jeroen on July 17, 2016, at 14:59:11
In reply to Re: not when you have lamictal induced psychosis mania, posted by jonhed on July 17, 2016, at 14:30:14
profrontal sais in cheaper sarcosine substances there is an acid in it that can make it neurotoxic or something, so their's is expensive but should be safe
Posted by jonhed on July 17, 2016, at 15:29:50
In reply to johned, posted by Jeroen on July 17, 2016, at 14:59:11
Can i ask you something jeroen?
If you start taking sarcosine, do you want to make a journal then so we can follow the progress?
Cause honest, i have read a lot about it after you came with the idea and it sound good.
But i already take a nmda-antagonist so if i try it, the conclusion would not be the same as if you did.I think you would be great at writing a journal, and i believe that journals help people to decide between different options in a good way cause you get the whole sequence of events, instead of just one "It worked for me" or "it did poop out".
It's good to, but you know what i mean! :-)
nmda rules, so i think it's worth a try and especially if it's not neurotoxic!
Kind regards to you jeroen!
Posted by Jeroen on July 17, 2016, at 16:23:28
In reply to Re: johned, posted by jonhed on July 17, 2016, at 15:29:50
Re: johned - yes i will make a journal here public
Good idea : )
Posted by jonhed on July 17, 2016, at 17:00:38
In reply to Re: johned - yes i will make a journal here public, posted by Jeroen on July 17, 2016, at 16:23:28
Thanks, cause antioxidants is very fascinating, and espacially sarcosine and NAC.
Have a good night!
Posted by linkadge on July 17, 2016, at 20:00:13
In reply to Re: both yes, posted by Lamdage22 on July 17, 2016, at 7:28:32
If somebody is depressed (or has an anxiety disorder) then yes an antidepressant is warranted.
However, if somebody with schizophrenia had no depression or anxiety, there is no research to suggest an antidepressant will improve cognition.Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on July 17, 2016, at 20:02:37
In reply to Re: both yes, posted by Lamdage22 on July 17, 2016, at 7:44:54
>MAY. Depression is depression.
With due respect, you need to look up the exact definition of "negative symptoms" in schizophrenia.
Linkadge
Posted by Lamdage22 on July 18, 2016, at 5:30:11
In reply to Re: both yes, posted by linkadge on July 17, 2016, at 20:02:37
> >MAY. Depression is depression.
>
> With due respect, you need to look up the exact definition of "negative symptoms" in schizophrenia.
>
> Linkadge
>I know the definition and i think differently. I dont need you to have the same opinion.
Posted by Jeroen on July 18, 2016, at 8:16:20
In reply to Re: both yes, posted by Lamdage22 on July 18, 2016, at 5:30:11
i never got relief from SSRI for negative symptoms "depression" just an energized feeling, but not for schizophrenia the energy loss
STRANGE!!
Posted by linkadge on July 18, 2016, at 17:55:38
In reply to Re: both yes, posted by Lamdage22 on July 18, 2016, at 5:30:11
It's not about opinion.
Depression is an example of only one possible negative symptom of schizophrenia.
For example, some schizophrenics experience significant cognitive dysfunction in the absence of any symptoms of depression.
The etiology could well have no overlap with depression at all (for example, it could be a cholinergic deficit rather than a serotonin deficit).
If the patient with schizophrenia is experiencing cognitive difficulties as a result of low acetylcholine, then boosting serotonin with an antidepressant would actually be counterproductive (as serotonin antagonizes acetylcholine).
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on July 18, 2016, at 17:58:37
In reply to i never got relief from SSRI for negative depressi, posted by Jeroen on July 18, 2016, at 8:16:20
Hi Jaroen,
There is evidence that low acetylcholine (not low serotonin) could be a factor in the cognitive dysfunction seen in schizophrenia.
Antidepressants are not "cure-alls". For example, they don't improve cognition in Alzheimer's, they don't improve cognition in ADHD.
You have to treat the right problem.
Now, if a schizophrenic *also* has a mood disorder, then yes, an antidepressant may help.
But, negative symptoms are not the same thing as depression.
Linkadge
Posted by Lamdage22 on July 19, 2016, at 12:26:58
In reply to Re: both yes, posted by linkadge on July 18, 2016, at 17:55:38
> It's not about opinion.
>
> Depression is an example of only one possible negative symptom of schizophrenia.
>
> For example, some schizophrenics experience significant cognitive dysfunction in the absence of any symptoms of depression.
>
> The etiology could well have no overlap with depression at all (for example, it could be a cholinergic deficit rather than a serotonin deficit).
>
> If the patient with schizophrenia is experiencing cognitive difficulties as a result of low acetylcholine, then boosting serotonin with an antidepressant would actually be counterproductive (as serotonin antagonizes acetylcholine).
>
> Linkadge
Its just my case that "taught" me that its the same thing. Might not apply to everyone.
Posted by jonhed on July 19, 2016, at 14:19:58
In reply to Re: i never got relief from SSRI for negative depressi, posted by linkadge on July 18, 2016, at 17:58:37
The only AD that is omproved for negative symtoms of depression is trintellix/brintellix, but negative symptoms of schizophrenia is something else, in schizophrenia glutamat and nmda is crucial and therefore i would say that you need a drug that target them receptors to improve negative symptoms of schizophrenia.
Also modafinil is approved in some countries for negative symptoms of schizophrenia, but that is if you can tolerate the effects of it.
and rexulti is indicated for it, brexpiprazole.
This is what i can contribute with.
But you need to understand that the substances you take needs to be able to cross the BBB for it to improve negative symptoms, or any symptoms for that matter.
If we are talking about psychiatric disorders at least.In allergy and constipation it's very good if the medications don't cross the BBB, so you don't need to be affected from them medicines :-)
This is the end of the thread.
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