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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by sregan on October 20, 2010, at 10:33:01
Bupropion has helped me and I'm trying it again but it's too heavy on the NE side. Is there anything I can do to block that or tone it down?
Posted by ed_uk2010 on October 20, 2010, at 13:46:29
In reply to Take the NE edge off Bupropion XR, posted by sregan on October 20, 2010, at 10:33:01
Perhaps a lower dose would be appropriate.
Posted by sregan on October 20, 2010, at 14:52:43
In reply to Re: Take the NE edge off Bupropion XR, posted by ed_uk2010 on October 20, 2010, at 13:46:29
I'm on 150 SR I don't think there is a lower dose option. I don't think every other day dosing is an option. Would feel like a roller coaster.
I was wondering if someone has dealt with this...I need the Dopamine but not the NE. Is there anything that catabolizes or metabolizes NE specifically?
Posted by SLS on October 20, 2010, at 15:00:22
In reply to Take the NE edge off Bupropion XR, posted by sregan on October 20, 2010, at 10:33:01
> Bupropion has helped me and I'm trying it again but it's too heavy on the NE side. Is there anything I can do to block that or tone it down?
Hi.
How are you able to discriminate between NE and other neurotransmitter effects?
- Scott
Posted by sregan on October 20, 2010, at 15:29:28
In reply to Re: Take the NE edge off Bupropion XR » sregan, posted by SLS on October 20, 2010, at 15:00:22
Scott, guessing based on what they are supposed to be doing and experience with dopamine boosters specifically Mucuna Pruriens.
> Bupropion has helped me and I'm trying it again but it's too heavy on the NE side. Is there anything I can do to block that or tone it down?
Hi.
How are you able to discriminate between NE and other neurotransmitter effects?
Posted by creepy on October 20, 2010, at 15:43:12
In reply to Take the NE edge off Bupropion XR, posted by sregan on October 20, 2010, at 10:33:01
Drugs that work against norepinephrine, adrenaline systems are things like alpha and beta blockers. Which you try would depend on which specific symptoms are the most troublesome.
I was prescribed prazosin for sleep and I have PTSD. Oddly I find that I have issues with low blood pressure and the pain / fatigue improves with adding an NRI. The anxiety can become a problem. Maybe it depends how much of the depression is resolved by wellbutrin.
Some people add on neurontin or a benzo for the GABA anxiety fix.
Posted by linkadge on October 20, 2010, at 16:26:51
In reply to Re: Take the NE edge off Bupropion XR, posted by creepy on October 20, 2010, at 15:43:12
Yeah, you could use a beta blocker in conjunction.
Alternatives might be to add some omega-3 (boosts dopamine lowers norepinephrine), magnesium, theanine, vitamin c, 5-htp or tryptophan.
Linkadge
Posted by sregan on October 20, 2010, at 16:49:07
In reply to Re: Take the NE edge off Bupropion XR, posted by linkadge on October 20, 2010, at 16:26:51
Omega 3 does that?
> Yeah, you could use a beta blocker in conjunction.
>
> Alternatives might be to add some omega-3 (boosts dopamine lowers norepinephrine), magnesium, theanine, vitamin c, 5-htp or tryptophan.
>
> Linkadge
Posted by sregan on October 20, 2010, at 17:24:46
In reply to Re: Take the NE edge off Bupropion XR, posted by creepy on October 20, 2010, at 15:43:12
Hmm...I had considered a beta blocker for another problem. Might research that.
I do take Klonopin, needed it today due to Bupropion induced anxiety.
> Drugs that work against norepinephrine, adrenaline systems are things like alpha and beta blockers. Which you try would depend on which specific symptoms are the most troublesome.
> I was prescribed prazosin for sleep and I have PTSD. Oddly I find that I have issues with low blood pressure and the pain / fatigue improves with adding an NRI. The anxiety can become a problem. Maybe it depends how much of the depression is resolved by wellbutrin.
> Some people add on neurontin or a benzo for the GABA anxiety fix.
Posted by SLS on October 20, 2010, at 18:42:23
In reply to Re: Take the NE edge off Bupropion XR » SLS, posted by sregan on October 20, 2010, at 15:29:28
> Scott, guessing based on what they are supposed to be doing and experience with dopamine boosters specifically Mucuna Pruriens.
Interesting.
Would propranolol be of any help? Wild guess.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on October 20, 2010, at 18:46:05
In reply to Re: Take the NE edge off Bupropion XR » sregan, posted by SLS on October 20, 2010, at 18:42:23
> > Scott, guessing based on what they are supposed to be doing and experience with dopamine boosters specifically Mucuna Pruriens.
>
> Interesting.
>
> Would propranolol be of any help? Wild guess.I see that Linkadge had already suggested a beta-blocker. Propranolol crosses the blood-brain barrier. This might be important.
- Scott
Posted by linkadge on October 20, 2010, at 20:17:36
In reply to Re: Take the NE edge off Bupropion XR » linkadge, posted by sregan on October 20, 2010, at 16:49:07
Yes, omega-3 has been shown to lower norepinephrine and boost dopamine levels. Great for the heart, great for the brain.
Linkadge
Posted by Nikos on October 21, 2010, at 2:41:00
In reply to Re: Take the NE edge off Bupropion XR » sregan, posted by linkadge on October 20, 2010, at 20:17:36
> Yes, omega-3 has been shown to lower norepinephrine and boost dopamine levels. Great for the heart, great for the brain.
>
>
> LinkadgeI recommend an alpha2 agonist like clonidine or guanfacine, the latter causing more fatigue.You do not want to block the a2 receptors as this will increase norepinephrine and blood pressure as observed in medications like yohimbine.
Alpha1 blockade is alright and contributes to a small degree to the heart rate and bp lowering of beta blockers. I myself would not recommend beta blockers unless you have a background of tachycardia as they tend to lower heart rate too much.
Also beta blockers decrease nocturnal melatonin release, perhaps partly accounting for sleep disturbance caused by some agents.They also can impair the relaxation of bronchial muscle (mediated by beta-2) and so should be avoided by asthmatics or people which may have bronchitis.They are however very affective for social anxiety as seen in use/abuse in people doing public presentations or playing musical instruments in symphonies.
A2 agonists are used routinely in ADD or ADHD to remove the norepinephrine component with meds like methylphenidate or Stims yet leaving the dopamine synthesizing or re-uptake properties intact.I believe in theory that they may remove excessive norepinephrine activity in the Striatum and in this manner are effective for conditions like ADD, tourettes, OCD and stuttering which are mediated mostly in the head of the caudate nucleus.Best of luck.
Posted by bleauberry on October 22, 2010, at 15:37:03
In reply to Take the NE edge off Bupropion XR, posted by sregan on October 20, 2010, at 10:33:01
I agree with the idea of lowering the dose. Then give it more time before deciding the next move.
Bupropion's mechanism is really not known. Whatever effect it has on NE is not much. A heavy NE med would be something like Reboxetine or Milnacipran. My hunch is you are feeling something else besides NE. Whatever it is, is impossible to pinpoint, because we don't know what this drug does, other than weak NE and DA inhibition, and something to do with nicotinic receptors.
Side effects, or direct effects, whatever they are, should diminish in time. In the meanwhile, if you want to get farther, you will probably have to do something to cut the edge. That could be herbs like Lemon Balm, PassionFlower, Skullcap. Or it could be meds like Xanax, Klonopin. Or it could be a NE blocker. But that kind of defeats the purpose. Why take a supposed NE med if you want to block it? Because it is too much NE? Then we come full circle back to where we started....reduce the dose.
Posted by ed_uk2010 on October 22, 2010, at 17:10:43
In reply to Take the NE edge off Bupropion XR, posted by sregan on October 20, 2010, at 10:33:01
>it's too heavy on the NE side. Is there anything I can do to block that or tone it down?
The problem with this type of discussion is that no one really knows what anyone else is talking about. The first issue is that there is no way of knowing whether your current problems with bupropion actually have anything to do with NE. Secondly, 'too heavy on the NE side' could be interpreted in many ways. Finally, how does this relate to your symptoms?
So, I think we need to know....
1. Has bupropion been prescribed for depression? If so, is it helping? Do you take any other medications?
2. Is bupropion causing adverse effects? If so, what?
Posted by KarenRB53 on October 29, 2010, at 21:28:39
In reply to Re: Take the NE edge off Bupropion XR, posted by ed_uk2010 on October 22, 2010, at 17:10:43
> >it's too heavy on the NE side. Is there anything I can do to block that or tone it down?
>
> The problem with this type of discussion is that no one really knows what anyone else is talking about. The first issue is that there is no way of knowing whether your current problems with bupropion actually have anything to do with NE. Secondly, 'too heavy on the NE side' could be interpreted in many ways. Finally, how does this relate to your symptoms?
>
> So, I think we need to know....
>
> 1. Has bupropion been prescribed for depression? If so, is it helping? Do you take any other medications?
>
> 2. Is bupropion causing adverse effects? If so, what?
>
>
>Forgive me for jumping in here but I'm in the same position as original poster. I've tried lowering dose from 150mg wellbutrinXL to 100mg wellbutrinSR but still feel side effects.
I was prescribed wellbutrinXL for depression and to augment Celexa which wasn't helping depression much anymore. The combo worked well for about 3 months (I've been taking it for about 6 months) and now it still helps with motivation a bit and energy a bit. Its definitely helped me lose the 40 lbs I put on with other AD's.
The adverse side effects are....my hair is thinning terribly and my body feels soooooo tense all the time, like I'm all bunched up. I also take Ativan for GAD. So, any opinions on whether it may be too much NE??
Thanks so much. Again, sorry for jumping in.
This is the end of the thread.
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