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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 20 of 20. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by cee on May 17, 2009, at 13:32:06
Hello my friends iam at the end of my rope with my depresion and anxety ,my pdoc has given me a choice to go in or hang in there at home .I find myself scarred but i now it might be my last hope.
Has any one have any thoughts or experiences to sharegod bless
cee
Posted by Phillipa on May 17, 2009, at 13:34:03
In reply to Hospital -in or out ?, posted by cee on May 17, 2009, at 13:32:06
Cee are you suicidal? If so hospital will keep you safe. Where do you live? USA? Love Phillipa
Posted by cee on May 17, 2009, at 13:54:24
In reply to Re: Hospital -in or out ? » cee, posted by Phillipa on May 17, 2009, at 13:34:03
> Cee are you suicidal? If so hospital will keep you safe. Where do you live? USA? Love Phillipa
Hello phillipa i feel suicidal but it scares the hell out of me i am from BRITISH COLUMBIA CANADA
CEE
Posted by Phillipa on May 17, 2009, at 14:32:08
In reply to Re: Hospital -in or out ?, posted by cee on May 17, 2009, at 13:54:24
If you feel you're needing protection from self I say go in. Are you alone or with family? What would the doc do in the hospital there as in the US and here they only keep you through suicidal crisis or psychosis. Is it different there? Hospitals nice? Would they work on your meds there? If so I'd go. Love Phillipa
Posted by floatingbridge on May 17, 2009, at 16:22:33
In reply to Re: Hospital -in or out ? » cee, posted by Phillipa on May 17, 2009, at 14:32:08
Dear Cee,
I second Phillipa. Where would you feel safest? Is there anyone at home with you at all times with whom you can make a binding verbal agreement not to harm yourself?
Blessings for you during this hard time,
Candace
Posted by Zana on May 17, 2009, at 18:15:48
In reply to Re: Hospital -in or out ?, posted by floatingbridge on May 17, 2009, at 16:22:33
By all means, if you don't feel safe, the hospital is where you should be.
Do you live alone? Are there people around who can help you at home? Have you been hospitalized before? Was it helpful?Getting through this time safely is the most important thing right now.
Keep us up to date on what is going on.
We'll all be thinking of you.Zana
Posted by bleauberry on May 17, 2009, at 18:54:27
In reply to Hospital -in or out ?, posted by cee on May 17, 2009, at 13:32:06
Unfortunately a hospital rarely produces any good results. It isn't their job. Their job is to "stabilize" the patient, and make room for the next one.
Sometimes they get lucky. I know a guy who attempted suicide, was hospitalized, and a week later was doing remarkably well after they started him on Prozac.
I've been hospitalized. Not a good place to be, unless you like being in PJs 24/7, locked up from the world, living in a hallway that never has enough light, hope is nowhere to be found, and cared for (or not) by nurses and pdocs who are there to get their residency training fullfilled. I was in a major hospital and I swear the so-called experts didn't seem to know any more than a Nurse Practitioner.
I have since found that Nurse Practitioners with a license in psychiatry are more creative and intuitive that pdocs. Their training and daily practice is more rounded with the whole body and not just psychiatrict prescription pads. It was mine for example, after all psych meds and ECT and hospital, who said, "Gee, I wonder if you have Lyme disease?" Why the heck did no one else ask that question in the previous 15 years? And she also asked to see my teeth...looking for silver (mercury) fillings, which she found huge ones, and had them removed. And she suspected my adrenal glands were shot which would prevent most meds from reaching their potential, and the lab test showed she was correct.
A better option is to scratch your pdoc and get a second or third opinion from someone completely new. In that move is much greater hope and much greater chance of progress.
It is also a good idea to get an MD who is trained in natural, homeopathy, and alternative treatments. Not that you would necessarily do any of those treatments, but these MDs look for causes of your depression that are way beyond what a regular pdoc or MD would do. Adrenals, thyroid, infections, heavy metals, unknown intolerances, etc. And they usually put you on a good lifestyle management program of diet and such that in itself can win you a couple points on the 1-10 depression scale.
Get a new doc. Stay out of the hospital. Force yourself into the sun for walks. The absolute worst thing to do is what feels natural...that is, hibernate and isolate. It is a terrific force, rarely any fun, tedious, meaningless, and hard, but it is extremely important to get out of the house. Go to the mall and window shop, walk around, get a snack. Drive to a scenic landmark. Take a hike. Go with someone somewhere to do something. Pull weeds. Vacuum the car. Wash windows. Anything. Everything. Just take little steps and do something, forced as it is. None of these things will cure you, but they do serve the purpose of halting the depression from getting worse, and can even partially reverse it for the better.
Diet goes a long way to win a point or two as well. Heavy on raw or slightly cooked veggies, all the time, every meal, good fruits every meal, proteins, omega fats from free-roam eggs, walnuts, avocados, whole grains, flax oil, plenty of purified water, very little sugar and keep caffeine consumption low to modest. And take a high potency dose of probiotics (50billion to 150billion per day).
Fighting stubborn depression bad enough to think hospital requires a multi-pronged approach much broader than any pill. You gotta do everything perfect for the body to give those pills something to work with.
Start with a new doc. For meds, consider combinations that hit both serotonin and norepinephrine, such as Zoloft+Nortriptyline, Savella (awesome med that worked for this ECT failure), Celexa+Nortriptyline, add Zyprexa or Risperdal, Prozac+Zyprexa. Those meds and combos would in my opinion be high priorities.
And one final thing. With any and all meds, insist on and pay the extra price for brand names. Refuse generics. My doc has had countless patients deteriorate on generics after being fine on brand. So stack the odds in your favor. You need every single opportunity of success you can get, and brand vs generic is one of them.
Posted by Phillipa on May 17, 2009, at 20:02:41
In reply to Re: Hospital -in or out ?, posted by bleauberry on May 17, 2009, at 18:54:27
Canadian hospitals to my understanding are nothing like the ones in the US they keep patients long term hence why asked where Cee is. Cee please go to the hospital. Was a certified nationally psycy RN in the USA and all patients were up and dressed in the am unless unable. No one was allowed in the halls. Groups and counsellors worked throughout the day with the patients. A lot of strong friendships developed there also. We loved our patients and provided excellent care. This is where I worked. Also have been a patient and experienced same. Love Phillipa
Posted by ricker on May 17, 2009, at 20:40:16
In reply to Re: Hospital -in or out ? » bleauberry, posted by Phillipa on May 17, 2009, at 20:02:41
Well, I usually agree with most of BB's posts, but I think he just scared the crap out of poor Cee!! Not intentionally mind you, I'm sure his experience/views are valid :-)
Anyway Cee, I'm a B.C. boy as well so hi to my fellow British Columbian!!
Yes, I believe Canadian p/wards are different than U.S. although I'm sure there's some bad stories to be told about Canada as well.I spent 2 months in a p/ward in Edmonton, Alberta back in 1989. I have nothing but positive memories and believe it helped shape the rest of my life.
The staff were very professional, compassionate and comforting. Once I was stabilized, I was offered group therapy such as Insight, Relaxation techniques, Recreational classes etc.
It was not a private hospital so I would hope you could find the same within our Province?
When my p/doc first mentioned a p/ward my immediate thoughts were, OMG! I must be going nuts! One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest also came to mind! But, as mentioned, I was extremely happy with the quality of care I received.I hope you get well soon...... Rick
Posted by shasling on May 17, 2009, at 20:47:36
In reply to Hospital -in or out ?, posted by cee on May 17, 2009, at 13:32:06
Well with this question you need to gather up the info,BUT please no matter which post sounds best or worst,Try yo listen to your gut,and follow that first.
My personal experiance with hospitals is horrid,First prior to one,and as family members believe who constantly want to shove me in one is this.....like a HOSPITAL there are docs around,so to be in the care where during an entire day you have acess to speaking with docs vs the five min u get in a med session sounded GREAT ! NOT TRUE,although you do get to see a doc each day,its for a matter of min,he comes in and like clock work calls in the patients,mr x ,now mr z,now r etc then he is outta there.
You are done,and now left to basicaly KILL an entire day,YOURE OPTIONS are to go to constinous random groups led by 19 year old counslers who at times even just played a movie.
Heres my visit in a long shot,and the extreme measure i went to about recomdations for the hospital.
1.Eat food in plastic trays that me you wonder if the plastic foam might actualy taste better.2.Wait in eager to see my doc,who i do for 5- 10 min.
3.He shorlty after leaves,and no actual MD doc is visiable in the floor the rest of the entire day.
4.Counslers,in some cases young as 19 have random groups,none pretaining to any thing medicaly with the brain,in fact the terms of gaba and dopamine for all purposes can be to them a new rock group out.
5.If you choose not to go to these groups,you are watched,and non particpation to the groups are considered by them to be a bad thing to talk to your doc about.Maybe you just want be left alone but no particpation in these groups in my case lead to benifits of eating down in the cafteria and having less EYES on my *ss all day.
6.I work out,i lift and try cardio,no gym equip of any kind,i was surprised they allowed me to walk up and down the long long hall for cardio,lol remeber one staff looked at me and i said NO IM NOT CRAZY LOL,im trying to get some form of cardio in.
7.To drink stood to gigantic colored juice tub dispencers,so through the day you can come and have juice,this actualy was good for me as soda is my weight gain nightmare,and i did loose 30 healthy pds,however its just eerie to see the two giant tubs there for thrist.
8.A pro was i dident remeber anyone hustling me to bed,people seemed to disappear to bed and others watched movies up until the am hrs.
9.Staff at desk are very nice people,they are not gona discuss gaba with you,but they are generaly nice people and with my med induced pyschosis i learned i hit one guy member clear in the jaw,i apologised to him every day i think he was more annoyed with that then the punch lol,but yess they to their credit do handle paitents who will hit them and from what i saw they were very carefull and professional,lol i in a haze remeber one lady hanging literaly on my leg,then the five member staff disappeared and these two guys built like football players came in grabbed me from undermy armpits and swooped me away easly,and im 6`1 250 lol they were some big guys but it was all done very saftly to me the patient.
Now when i was out,these are the recomdations i had that i called to the highest person i could find concerning issues,
First i asked,1.Why cant the hospital have a small libary with books pretaining to our illness,we could visit and go through them and would serve as a good option to those non stop therapys.
2.Second i asked,i dont expect the facility to have internet to go and yahoo chat,HOWEVER im a pc tech and you can have KIOSK with extremly tightly limited internet access to email and maybe just search,to help the patient feel less isolated from the world.
3.I obviously asked about a gym,i said its always stated excersise helps depression,why is there not even a very simple gym with one of those old multi units that allow u to easly do numerous excersises on the one unit.Maybe a track to run,something.
They agreed i had good points but im sure it fell on deaf ears.
Sorry to run off on your post,one thing i wil say to you is this.
********** MAKE SURE YOU DONT IN ANY WAY SAY YOU FEEL AS IF YOU WANT TO HURT YURSELF OR ANYONE ELSE**********
Now if u feel so then of course thats different,however if u even come close to saying this in a mild form it is a redlight to keep you there much much longer then you would want.
I wish you luck,feel free to return this post with anything specific and ill answer.
Posted by Phillipa on May 17, 2009, at 21:31:52
In reply to Hospital -in or out ?, posted by cee on May 17, 2009, at 13:32:06
Cee please listen to Ricker and myself. Hospitals are a wonderful place to be when you need to be in one. I'm truly sorry if anyone has frightened you. Let me know what you decide and everyone else as we truly care about out fellow babblers A Hug for you (((((Cee))))) Love Phillipa ps you haven't said if alone or family around very important.
Posted by Zyprexa on May 18, 2009, at 0:39:56
In reply to Hospital -in or out ?, posted by cee on May 17, 2009, at 13:32:06
I've been in canadian mental hospitals, not fun. They gave me lots of ECTs and forced me to take my pill. If I had just taken the pills when I was out of the hospital, I probably would not have needed to go. One thing the mental hospital told me was take your meds or come here for a couple of months of hell. The ward is locked its like prison. They have a room to smoke and rooms with games and a place to eat and rooms with beds. Its not fun, but I guess if you have to go maybe you should. Is the problem that none of your meds are working and you are at the end of your rope? The hospital will do the same thing as your outpatient pdoc will. Find a med that works! You could always chose to see your doctor a lot more often. Like phillipa said if you don't trust your self maybe you should go.
Posted by Zyprexa on May 18, 2009, at 0:53:37
In reply to Re: Hospital -in or out ?, posted by shasling on May 17, 2009, at 20:47:36
I've been in 3 mental hospitals. 2 had a gym one did not. One was in Canada and one was in the US, the ones with gyms that is.
Posted by Neal on May 18, 2009, at 1:55:55
In reply to Re: Hospital -in or out ?, posted by cee on May 17, 2009, at 13:54:24
cee-
you there . . . . ?
Posted by B2chica on May 18, 2009, at 7:48:10
In reply to Hospital -in or out ?, posted by cee on May 17, 2009, at 13:32:06
i'm not sure my experience will help you much as i'm in the US.
but i had decent experiences there. except that like the others said, it doesn't do much. the main reasons to go are: to keep you safe. very important and will work quite well for this. secondly if you want to alter your meds quickly, they can do a great job of this and believe me doing it this way NEEDS monitoring. i've had several bad side effects by changing quickly, but luckily i was in hospital and they could help.The nurses we're great, but there's always that One...
i was able to see MY pdoc in the hospital all but once and that was a plus.
otherwise its a roulette game. the one time i did not...ooh, not good. he completely rediagnosed me and wanted to change my meds and everything but talked to my pdoc and my pdoc INSISTED NO. he advocated for me. very good.so anyway. mostly good experiences. but since you're only there for typically 3 days there's not much they can do.
HOWEVER, sometimes those 3 days are EXACTLY what i needed.
Best Wishes. and please stay safe.
b2c.
Posted by cee on May 18, 2009, at 12:22:49
In reply to Re: Hospital -in or out ? » cee, posted by B2chica on May 18, 2009, at 7:48:10
Thank you for all the advice i am going to meet with my pdoc in 2 days and will make a decission then.I have been hospitalized 1 time before and it was not a nice place.This time they will put me in a different ward for mood disorders so i do not now what that will be like.
blessings to you all
cee
Posted by Phillipa on May 18, 2009, at 12:33:40
In reply to Re: Hospital -in or out ?, posted by cee on May 18, 2009, at 12:22:49
Hi Cee what type of ward were you in first time as that would definitely make a huge difference as usually the mood disorder ones focus more on changing behaviors and finding just the right med. Lots of groups also. And you will be up and dressed. Why not turn on your babblemail so others can contact you directly. If not that's fine too. Sounds like you might be a bit better today. Hoping you are. Love Phillipa
Posted by bleauberry on May 19, 2009, at 20:03:22
In reply to Hospital -in or out ?, posted by cee on May 17, 2009, at 13:32:06
While my previous post was rather anti-hospital based on what I've seen with mine own eyes, I have had time to contemplate this thread and offer some added perspective.
If one is thinking about ways to end a life, a hospital is the best place to interrupt that process. The gas tank is on empty. A hospital stay can fill that gas tank halfway to full. Hope. That's where it's at. Everyone needs hope, and a hospital can do that.
A hospital stay can strengthen someone to where they find reserves they never knew they had so they never get so bad again as to have to go back to the hospital. Or even if they do, they have the comfort knowing a place of safe retreat from the world does exist.
Once in a while I see the receptionist from the psychiatric ward visiting the store where I work. She and I know each other by first names and there is a bond. I have no doubt good friendships can be born in hospitals. You never know where you'll meet someone really special in your life.
With the demandless world of a hospital stay, it is a good place to get close to one's spirituality. People can leave the hospital with Jesus as their best friend, when prior they never even thought about Him.
I generally frown on the psychiatric wards of USA, but I must admit, they do interrupt the endless road of misery and start a new road. It isn't the same old endless road anymore. The new road may be better or maybe not better, but at least it is a new start, a different road. The old is gone, bring on the new.
Posted by ricker on May 19, 2009, at 20:33:47
In reply to Re: Hospital -in or out ?, posted by bleauberry on May 19, 2009, at 20:03:22
bleauberry, very nice post! :-)
Posted by yxibow on May 19, 2009, at 22:45:55
In reply to Re: Hospital -in or out ?, posted by cee on May 18, 2009, at 12:22:49
> Thank you for all the advice i am going to meet with my pdoc in 2 days and will make a decission then.I have been hospitalized 1 time before and it was not a nice place.This time they will put me in a different ward for mood disorders so i do not now what that will be like.
> blessings to you all
> ceeI wish you luck too.
Yes, I have been hospitalized once for OCD, but that was in the days when bed costs and hospital stays were different in the US.
Its really not possible to have that sort of long treatment in the US today with mental health caps being what they are. It would cost probably four times as much. A typical bed without anything else attached to it goes around $2-5,000 a day.
Don't get me wrong -- if there is truly a need for it and its not just ideation but actual plans and full thoughts of suicide, then a short stay in a hospital may be more beneficial than harm.But then this is BC -- I can't say for the state of hospitals there, but with socialized medicine at least its covered more, I think more in your province than others but I don't know the current economic status.
I imagine the Lower Mainland would have fairly good health systems, I don't know about Kamloops or Prince George.
I guess I'm saying from my experience in a hospital it was necessary but there were many days when I just wished I was home.
And if you have any family that is near you or that you can stay with during this time of need, I believe in the theory that "familiar faces and familiar voices" is far better than a hospital where one may not get enough personal attention to go around.
That's basically how I am doing intensive therapy -- yes, there are mixed emotions about being at home and issues of attachment, and I could go on but its not of concern to this topic -- hospitalization for myself would be a complete negative, shut away from home, my own growth and importance of socialization.
At any rate, I know these are vastly different situations, so if it is really a "911" and not just a ideation, then go. Take advantage of the situation, but express your moods there as much as you're allowed to, and the therapy that is provided, and also the patient rights that you are afforded in Canada (which may or may not be similar to here).
Also, I don't know if they provide partial (day care) hospitalization, but if that is enough to help you, it can be better -- if you feel though that you are a harm to yourself outside such an environment then as I say take advantage of what I mentioned.-- take care
Jay
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