![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 74. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by newquestions on April 16, 2009, at 9:10:07
I continue to post my story in the hope people learn from it and someone can explain what has happened to me.
I started to suffer depression, anxiety and OCD at age 18. I would ruminate over prior failures and get severely depressed. I did not experience any manias. I did not seek help until I was 26. I started Zoloft, 200 mg, in 1993. In 2003, I started to notice a major change in side effects of Zoloft. I had less muscle energy, mentally foggy and lazy, heaviness, non-restful sleep, more withdrawn, and my physical appearance/grooming grew worse. My concentration and attention to detail deteriorated. I was more "in side" myself, sluggish, not responsive, more drugged. I felt more fatiqued.
In retrospect, this was the beginning of poop out, where my body adapted to the drug, and did not respond to it any more, except in negative ways. Over the next five years, I cycled through every antidepressant looking for the one that would help the way zoloft helped in the early years, all with devastating and even paradoxial side effects.
I HAD BECOME SEVERELY HYPERSENSITIVE TO ANTIDEPRESSANTS. I can't even take amino acids. I tried a very small dose of inositol and then 5-HTP (less than 10 mg) and they made me more depressed within a few days. (Interestingly, the 5-HTP greatly improved my hair and skin, making it retain oils. Without it, my hair and skin are dry, presumably a side effect of long term SSRI use.)
This antidepressant use took a toll on my body. My hair became dry and brittle, dry sticky skin, skin and ear infections appeared, dry mouth and dry eyes, trigylcerides shot up, HDL cholestrol went to low. I felt fatigued, run down. My professional and personal lives suffered. My personality changed.
I have been forced to go off all drugs, amino acids and vitamins. My last dose was in early December 2008. Right now I am experiencing:
Derealisation and depersonalisation
irritability
Vision problems, foggy vision, focus problems
Cognitive problems, foggy brain, memory and concentration problems
Muscle weakness, fatigue, low stamina
Apathy, lack of emotions
Balance problems
muscle ache
Sticky skin, waxy hair, skin rashes
Horrible sensations like heavy head, head pressures
can't handle stress
Worse anxiety than pre the ADs--its a physical anxiety
Dizziness in different ways, vertical and horizontal
Sensitive for sound and light
Inability to enjoy everyday things, including music, movies, etc
personality changeI stopped listening to music or watching movies because I can't enjoy them or anything else anymore. What really concerns me is the cognitive decline. I just can't think abstractly anymore. I can't learn. My attention to detail sucks.
SSRIs affect the body in many different ways and there are a thousand theories as to what happens, e.g., receptor changes, downregulation of other neurotransmitters and firing rates, adrenal gland exhaustion, the list goes on but no one really knows.
All my doctors think I am a defective lab rat, and that any problems I am experiencing are the underlying condition returning. However, I never experienced these problems pre-zoloft. On paxilprogress.com, you will find a bunch of people with similar experiences.
I still research other possible causes (e.g., Lyme disease, Wilson's Disease, lead poisoning)
but I am now pretty convinced I am in protracted withdrawal. My body was used to a drug for so long and now it is no longer there and my body is adjusting. It takes years to recover, not weeks (as drug companies claim) or months. There are many stories of people who still experience problems years and years after their last dose.I think only time will heal me. No more drugs, amino acids, vitamins, herbs. I can't tolerate them.
I wish I never took an SSRI.
Posted by Zana on April 16, 2009, at 12:18:22
In reply to Effects of long term SSRI use... My Story..., posted by newquestions on April 16, 2009, at 9:10:07
It sounds like you have seen doctors but I wonder if you have had a really good, complete physical. Do you have a pdoc? And do you feel like you have had a diagnosis that fits? ADs are not the end of the line by any means. I would really encourage you to seek out good medical care and get a handle on exactly what is going on with you.
Sounds like a very difficult struggle.Zana
Posted by sam K on April 16, 2009, at 12:19:23
In reply to Effects of long term SSRI use... My Story..., posted by newquestions on April 16, 2009, at 9:10:07
Im very sorry, i understand the regret. I dont know what couldve happened! Because zoloft isnt supposed to be toxic or hurt you.
Maybe youre predisposed to something and zoloft made it come out. I hope you get something that works. So nothing works? What about wellbutrin or amphetimine or maois? Have you tried mood stabilizers? just wondering. I really hope you figure this out. But maybe its something youll have to let go of ,.,and let time figure it out.
I did LSD one time at a very small dosage and Ive been messed up instantly ever since. The day I woke up I was serverly depressed and severly anxious. I didnt go to school anymore and I never got out since. Sometimes i say "I wish i never took that lsd". But no one really knows what happened to me either.
Posted by Phillipa on April 16, 2009, at 12:32:16
In reply to Re: Effects of long term SSRI use... My Story..., posted by sam K on April 16, 2009, at 12:19:23
Seriously hearing too many stories on here of similar issures makes me want to quit but so many years? Don't work for me anyway. Love Phillipa
Posted by bleauberry on April 16, 2009, at 15:20:23
In reply to Effects of long term SSRI use... My Story..., posted by newquestions on April 16, 2009, at 9:10:07
Something has been missed. I have no doubt longterm ssri use has changed things. But I do not believe that is the causative factor in your symptoms. I do believe it is a confounding factor, but not the underlying one. Something has been missed.
Have you seen your 24 hour cortisol curve?
Have you taken 1200mg DMSA, collected urine for 6 hours, and seen how much lead/mercury is in it?
Have you had all the Lyme lab tests? Have you had a doctor who knows Lyme well enough to ignore the tests and go by symptoms?
Is thyroid in the optimal range? That is, skewed toward the best end of the scale for each hormone measured, not in the middle or skewed toward the weaker side? In other words, is it optimal or normal?
Ya know, you describe me to to a tee. Perfectly. I never thought anyone else felt the things I did. You do. Exactly. The 5htp, everything. All of it.
But ya know what? When I tried rounds of DMSA, oh my word, for about 2 days out of the 5, all of my symptoms pretty much vanished. What it told me was..."my body and brain are not permanently damaged, they know exactly how to work normally". It's just a matter of finding how to do it. But the important thing is...it is still there! The brain is still perfectly capable of feeling healthy and 20 years younger. Mine proved it.
First day on the antibiotic Tetracycline. Same thing. Amazing improvement. Downhill slide after that. But again, it showed me, my brain is fine and capable. It's there. How to get it is a tricky one, but it is there to be got.
The best of all. My cortisol is/was below the normal dialy 24 hour curve. On a mere 1.25mg-2.5mg per day (hydrocortisone), just 10% of the target dose I was headed for, I had absolute total remission for an entire day (after 2 weeks of hydrocortisone). Again, yet again, I was shown without a doubt, the capability of normalcy is there.
Your symptoms fit Lyme perfectly. They also fit adrenal fatigue perfectly (low cortisol). Both can mimic each other.
If you are not seeing a doctor who deals with this stuff as a majority of their day, you won't get well.
I do believe ssris played into. Partially by hiding a disease that was already in progress, until the disease got strong enough that the meds didn't stand a chance, and it looked like med poopout, but wasn't. The sensitivity to supplements and meds is because...something else is going on.
I know you said you are investigating these things, but that effort needs to be stepped up to the bigtime.
Posted by NewQuestions on April 16, 2009, at 15:53:28
In reply to Re: Effects of long term SSRI use... My Story..., posted by bleauberry on April 16, 2009, at 15:20:23
Bleuberry, help me figure this out! I have gotten a battery of blood tests. The only abnormalities:
1. High triglycerides and low HDL
2. High AST and ALT liver enzymesI was tested for metals, testosterone and thyroid and it came back negative. I didn't take DMSA so maybe the metal test wasn't thorough? Once I tested high for folic acid and B12 but it since stablized.
Given the high AST and ALT, my doctor is now checking out:
Hemochromatosis (iron overload)
Celiac disease
Muscle related inflammation
Wilson's Disease (copper overload)
Alpha-1 anti-trypsin deficiency
Addison's DiseaseFor Addison's disease, I will be getting a cortisol test this weekend and taking 1 mg of dexamethasone the night before. (Is that sufficient?)
I have found a bunch of people on paxilprogress.com that took elevated doses of an SSRI for a number of years, went off of it, and experienced a bunch of withdrawal symptoms similar to mine, including hypersensitivities to drugs and vitamins, and at least some cognitive problems. Given that, and the fact that I live in NYC, I don't think Lyme disease is a likely candidate. However, some type of cortisol problem is more likely as it interrelates to SSRI's and serotonin.
Does that sound right?
Posted by sowhysosad on April 16, 2009, at 17:43:44
In reply to Re: Effects of long term SSRI use... My Story..., posted by bleauberry on April 16, 2009, at 15:20:23
> I do believe ssris played into [this]. Partially by hiding a disease that was already in progress, until the disease got strong enough that the meds didn't stand a chance, and it looked like med poopout, but wasn't. The sensitivity to supplements and meds is because...something else is going on.
What are the odds that most of the SSRI horror stories we hear are due to something like this?
Whilst not wishing to belittle anyone's seemingly SSRI-related suffering (I suffered the worst SSRI-induced akathisia last year myself), it does worry me that the horror stories are putting a lot of people off meds who could be significantly helped.
Posted by linkadge on April 16, 2009, at 18:16:40
In reply to Re: Effects of long term SSRI use... My Story..., posted by sowhysosad on April 16, 2009, at 17:43:44
>does worry me that the horror stories are >putting a lot of people off meds who could be >significantly helped.
That doesn't worry me one bit. I am still suffering seemingly permanent symptoms very similar to this due to long term SSRI use.
I think that it is absolutely critical that people come on and share the full extent of their experiences like this so that potential SSRI users will be able to make informed decisisons about using SSRI's.
If all you hear is the rosey storeys that are filtered through drug company websites then there is no way for people to get an acurate picture of the long term safety and efficacy (or lack thereof) of these medications.
Linkadge
Posted by 4ed on April 16, 2009, at 20:02:48
In reply to Re: Effects of long term SSRI use... My Story..., posted by linkadge on April 16, 2009, at 18:16:40
wow, I had a life before meds, and I want it back. If i have to stay on meds forever I certainly hope there are some new innovations in psychopharmacology down the pipeline, the current regimen certainly appears flawed. I definitely feel too apathetic & stuck in my dysfunction too go on with things as they are, and am therefore implementing changes (ie: discontinuation). thanks for your story.
Posted by sowhysosad on April 16, 2009, at 21:32:43
In reply to Re: Effects of long term SSRI use... My Story..., posted by linkadge on April 16, 2009, at 18:16:40
I live in a culture (the UK) where many people don't seek help for debilitating depression because they think "taking tablets" isn't natural or "normal". People who have mental illness should have a stiff upper lip, pull themselves together and get on with it. It's the British way.
The UK media is notorious for hysterical health scares and grossly misinterpreted science. It seizes upon anything which appears to discredit the efficacy or safety of AD's and feeds into the national anti-med paranoia. For example:
If laypeople decide to educate themselves about SSRI's online before making a decision, they're far more likely to be influenced by emotive personal anecdotes than they are academic research or even drug-company blurb. And the tiny minority who have had negative experiences seemingly caused by SSRI's have far louder voices than the millions who have found them helpful.
That's my concern - a lot of people suffering needlessly in this country, discouraged from trying meds by a comparatively small number of horror stories.
> That doesn't worry me one bit. I am still suffering seemingly permanent symptoms very similar to this due to long term SSRI use.
>
> I think that it is absolutely critical that people come on and share the full extent of their experiences like this so that potential SSRI users will be able to make informed decisisons about using SSRI's.
>
> If all you hear is the rosey storeys that are filtered through drug company websites then there is no way for people to get an acurate picture of the long term safety and efficacy (or lack thereof) of these medications.
>
> Linkadge
>
>
>
>
>
>
Posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on April 17, 2009, at 0:30:51
In reply to Effects of long term SSRI use... My Story..., posted by newquestions on April 16, 2009, at 9:10:07
Hi nq:
I am very, very sorry you have had such an awful time with your illness. I honestly think that there is relief out there for you, though. The good folks here at PB have tons of experience and knowledge to possibly help.
A couple of points about your situation, as I can empathize with your difficulties. First, it took me almost 10 years to find a combo of meds that worked well. I have BP2, and was soooo lucky after getting through (and firing) two psychiatrists, to find an excellent helper in my family doctor. But, besides bipolar, we also treat the symptoms, especially the depression and anxiety. I strongly relate to all of those somatoform symptoms you experienced, and when my meds haven't worked, I have gotten those same symptoms.
Even before treatment, though, I had those symptoms. You deserve the *best* (as everybody I feel deserves so), and to feel the *best*. There are still bad days for me, but various meds have helped relieve those symptoms, and I honestly respect life so much more then I ever did before my proper, working treatments.
I also think my meds don't only work well for bipolar disorder, I think they also can work great for depression and anxiety. So, here are some 'combos'..options I think you should maybe give a try if you want. I was on Zoloft, then on Effexor, and over years, after research too, I found these meds too 'activating'. That was when I got my BP2 diagnosed. I found a good combo was Effexor, 10mg of Zyprexa, 3-4mg of clonazepam perday, and if you live in the U.S., I'd add nefadozone (brand name Serzone). I was also on 150mg Effexor, 5mg Zyprexa, plus Depakote/Epival, 200mg of Topamax, and clonazepam. I had some good success with these combos, but was still having some tough times. So, we started on generic Prozac (fluoxetine), I went up to 60-80mg's. 10mg of Zyprexa, 1 mg of risperidone when needed, 4-5mg's of clonazepam (always need the stuff...and no, not addicted, as I have stopped the stuff over most of a year, and no *cravings* or anything, and no increase in dose) and nortriptyline to give that noradrenic lift out of depression. Also, Cymbalta, plus 10mg's of Zyprexa, and Anrdogel (testosterone in gel applied to the skin), and clonazepam.
I'd highly reccomend these combos to anybody. Zyprexa is the "main" stabalizer for me. Risperdal helped, but not as good as the Zyprexa. You could also try combining Zoloft with another SSRI, like Celexa, in a bit smaller doses, Zyprexa, and adding a small noradrenic booster like Notriptyline. You could also add Lyrica or Neurontin for extended anxiety as well.
I am, slowly, getting my life together after 10-15 or so years of trying to treat this. I had a period of intense grief, almost 3-4 years, as I had lost my wife and baby in a car accident. That may have (it DID!) *really* complicated it, and yes I still grieve, especially around anniversaries, but as a bit of a batle scar I feel daily too. But I just have let it become a part of me. Things have meaning in such a different way, now, that I don't really recognize much of who I used to be.
So, let us know what you think, and I hope I may have helped in even just some small way. Please take care. :)
Jay
Posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on April 17, 2009, at 1:34:35
In reply to Re: Effects of long term SSRI use... My Story..., posted by linkadge on April 16, 2009, at 18:16:40
> >does worry me that the horror stories are >putting a lot of people off meds who could be >significantly helped.
>
> That doesn't worry me one bit. I am still suffering seemingly permanent symptoms very similar to this due to long term SSRI use.
>
> I think that it is absolutely critical that people come on and share the full extent of their experiences like this so that potential SSRI users will be able to make informed decisisons about using SSRI's.
>
> If all you hear is the rosey storeys that are filtered through drug company websites then there is no way for people to get an acurate picture of the long term safety and efficacy (or lack thereof) of these medications.
>
> LinkadgeI think you would consider my story 'rosey' then, as many of those so-called *evil* drugs have helped me, and many others I know. The kind of proper 'cocktail' a good doctor would prescribe has nothing to do with individual drug "fancy stories" put out by drug companies. I honestly think the real reason why many people don't get well is because they don't have a doctor with a depth to use "every arsenal" in combinations that go beyond simplified drug advertising.
I had obtained Abilify, and living in Canada I had to import it. I had amazing success with that med, but unfortunately it's harder to get as it isn't sold here. So, I had to stop a pretty darn good drug.
About 'long term safety'. I think if people where using drugs for 150-200 years, then there may be concern. All of this 'stuff' about people believing they are braindamaged or what, doesn't seem to fold out. I find it very, very irresponsible by those websites that demonize psychiatric medications. I work with a LOT of university students who are also on numerous psychiatric medications. They are completing undergrad and graduate degrees, things that where stopped because of their illness without treatment. I am working on my second undergrad degree right now. There is a beautiful calm that I don't think I even appreciated before treatment, that keeps me focused, able to study hard and write up great research, that I get good marks in. Most of all, I feel content and, yes, happy. Not *all the time*, but quite often/most of time. We don't live much of a long life, anyways, so heck, even if these meds took a year or two off my life, and I could die contented and happy, I wouldn't mind.
I personally have not heard of many people getting *very* well on just one drug. This goes for most mental illness. I knew this actually before I started meds because I had worked on a grant at the Canadian Mental Health Association back in the late 1980's. Polypharmacy, and a fair amount of testing, trial and error, were part of many who got well treatments. Of course, you have to have an openminded doc. I was once going through a REALLY bad, bad time when I first got my new doc. So, he slowly ramped up on a bit of a high dose benzo plus a high dose stimulant. He added two mood stabalizers. That *greatly* got me out of, and through, my tough time. My doc and I still keep that benzo/stim cocktail on our sides, and know it is there if needed again.
Just using one drug seems to be, actually, a not-so-good choice to fight mental illness. (And yes, for all you people on one drug, I don't mean to put you down or anything like that.)
Just IMHO...
Jay
Posted by sowhysosad on April 17, 2009, at 1:43:18
In reply to Re: Effects of long term SSRI use... My Story... » linkadge, posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on April 17, 2009, at 1:34:35
All of this 'stuff' about people believing they are braindamaged or what, doesn't seem to fold out. I find it very, very irresponsible by those websites that demonize psychiatric medications. I work with a LOT of university students who are also on numerous psychiatric medications. They are completing undergrad and graduate degrees, things that where stopped because of their illness without treatment.
I wholeheartedly agree Jay, and I worry about the people who are missing out on life, not trying meds because they're terrified by those websites.
Posted by Sigismund on April 17, 2009, at 4:12:57
In reply to Re: Effects of long term SSRI use... My Story..., posted by sowhysosad on April 16, 2009, at 21:32:43
>And the tiny minority who have had negative experiences seemingly caused by SSRI's have far louder voices than the millions who have found them helpful.
How do you know?
Posted by bleauberry on April 17, 2009, at 5:40:19
In reply to Re: Effects of long term SSRI use... My Story..., posted by NewQuestions on April 16, 2009, at 15:53:28
It is hard to figure out, but even harder with mainstream common testing. Quite honestly, they use meaningless tests.
For example, thyroid. You say the tests were normal. Well, how normal? The so-called normal range is extremely broad and only fits healthy people as an average, not inclusive of every person on the planet. FreeT3, freeT4, and TSH all need to be at the far end of the broad range, the good side of that range. Not in the middle. Not slightly toward the bad side. Normal is not good enough, especially when you have symptoms. What we need is optimal. That said, I don't think thyroid explains your problems, though you probably are on the hypothyroid side of things despite being in a normal range. Keep in mind too, there is a thing called receptor resistance. We can only measure thyroid in the blood. What we cannot measure is whether the receiving receptors are recognizing it or taking it. Sometimes patients need extra thyroid hormone to break through the roadblock. Really good thyroid doctors do not rely on lab numbers. They go by symptoms, trial and error with various doses. The lab tests are only good as a baseline reading to know where you started. A reference point. Nothing more.
So, you can see, just getting a test has to be very specific.
The adrenal test you are about to get is also completely worthless. It is going to challenge your adrenal glands to see if they put out cortisol. That tells you absolutely nothing. If the adrenals are 80% bad, you'll be treated. If they are 70% bad, they'll tell you that you are in the normal range and everything is fine. Think about it, is it ok to have a heart that is 70% bad. Do you wait for a heart attack for someone to diagnose heart disease? It's the same with adrenals. Bad is bad, no matter what degree.
The proper cortisol test is called the Adrenal STress Index. It measures your cortisol in saliva, 4 times during a 24 hour period, unprovoked, so that you can see how your cortisol is behaving throughout an entire day. I would place money that yours is well below the normal curve. But alas, you have cortisol, and with the challenge test you are going to take, it will appear perfectly fine, when in fact it is in the dumps. Basically, you don't want to know what your adrenals will do following a challenge test of another drug. What you want to know is what are your cortisol levels during a typical average day at waking time, noon, late afternoon, and late evening. Is it low all of that time? Is it low some of that time? Is it normal the whole time? There is no way you are going to get any useful information from the test they are going to give you, other than whether your adrenals are dead or alive. Nothing inbetween.
Heavy metals. They aren't floating around in your blood or urine unless you have current or recent exposure. These metals settle into tissues and cells. So a blood test or a urine test is not going to show any metals. They are in the tissues, not the blood or urine. DMSA is a drug that chelates lead and mercury from tissue storage. And then it goes to the urine in high concentrations, if it was in the tissues. A DMSA challenge test will show how much mercury or lead is hiding in your tissues. I do not suspect this condition is your primary illness, though it could be, but I would put it high on the red flag list if you have or ever had amalgam fillings in your teeth.
You really fit the description of hypoadrenalism perfectly, which will not show in the test you are about to take. You gotta get that saliva test 4 times a day to see what is really going on.
I do believe serotonin is a player. All those years we were on ssris, our serotonin was bound up at the synapse sites. In studies it is shown that metabolites of serotonin decrease considerably while on SSRI. Total theory on my part, but maybe serotonin is not available to the rest of the body in amounts that it should be? In other words, it is all concentrated at the synapse, but stolen from everywhere else? And over longterm, that lack of bodily peripheral serotonin causes some longlasting adaptations that affect immune system (sensitivities), hormones, and stuff?
Maybe somewhere along the line our genes say, "Hey, there is way too much serotonin at these synapses. We weren't programmed for that. We need to tell all our neighbor genes to slow down or stop production of serotonin from protein tryptophan." Maybe we lose the ability to make serotonin, as the body's natural response to have artificially high serotonin from meds? And then maybe, just maybe, those genes that got turned off never get turned on again? Or maybe, if for example there a million serotonin receptors to begin with, when serotonin concentrations increase from the drug, the body tries to compensate by eliminating some of those receptors? So now maybe we have only half a million? Quarter million? A few thousand? And when the drug is stopped, they don't grow back again?
All kinds of weird stuff could be happening. I agree with Linkadge, that this topic should become very public and very huge, as it deserves close scrutiny.
The fact is, no one knows what these drugs really do, and no one knows what their longterm consequences are. I do believe longterm adaptive changes occur that are detrimental to many biochemical systems in our bodies, primarily related to immune function, which sets us up for sensitivities, fatigue, and brain fog.
And the best way I know of to kick start things back into sync is to treat hypoadrenalism. That covers the entire range of symptoms you are experiencing, and restores the lost sensitivities of serotonin and thyroid hormones back to normal.
> Bleuberry, help me figure this out! I have gotten a battery of blood tests. The only abnormalities:
>
> 1. High triglycerides and low HDL
> 2. High AST and ALT liver enzymes
>
> I was tested for metals, testosterone and thyroid and it came back negative. I didn't take DMSA so maybe the metal test wasn't thorough? Once I tested high for folic acid and B12 but it since stablized.
>
> Given the high AST and ALT, my doctor is now checking out:
>
> Hemochromatosis (iron overload)
> Celiac disease
> Muscle related inflammation
> Wilson's Disease (copper overload)
> Alpha-1 anti-trypsin deficiency
> Addison's Disease
>
> For Addison's disease, I will be getting a cortisol test this weekend and taking 1 mg of dexamethasone the night before. (Is that sufficient?)
>
> I have found a bunch of people on paxilprogress.com that took elevated doses of an SSRI for a number of years, went off of it, and experienced a bunch of withdrawal symptoms similar to mine, including hypersensitivities to drugs and vitamins, and at least some cognitive problems. Given that, and the fact that I live in NYC, I don't think Lyme disease is a likely candidate. However, some type of cortisol problem is more likely as it interrelates to SSRI's and serotonin.
>
> Does that sound right?
>
Posted by 4ed on April 17, 2009, at 7:40:29
In reply to Re: Effects of long term SSRI use... My Story... » NewQuestions, posted by bleauberry on April 17, 2009, at 5:40:19
I will agree from my own experience that meds, in the right cocktail will work... the issue is how long? then what, after they don't work. It becomes pharmaceutical roulette, I tried this and that for several months before I decided, "this is good enough to remain stable". Stable doesn't help me in job interviews, or life in general, barely able to crack a smile and stuttering to top it off. If I could pop a dexedrine and a xanax before a normally awkward situation then its money baby, but sh*t I can't take these drugs because I've already proven to my pdoc that with these powerful substances I end up psychotic and/or agoraphobic. So then it becomes management using Antipsychotics, total zombification... get out your giant roll of ace bandages, wrap me up, and bury me in egypt. I'm sorry to play devil's avodocate, or simply the devil ;-) There is alot of misinformation out there, from both sides, and relapse to original, or worse, condition seems plausible. there is just so many unknown variables, that its hard to tell someone it is or isn't the meds that f##ked you up. give this guy a break!
Posted by NewQuestions on April 17, 2009, at 8:12:19
In reply to Re: Effects of long term SSRI use... My Story..., posted by 4ed on April 17, 2009, at 7:40:29
Read these stories. People need full information before making a decision as to whether to go on an SSRI. The drug companies surely won't tell you about this!
Posted by Alexanderfromdenmark on April 17, 2009, at 11:05:29
In reply to Re: Effects of long term SSRI use... My Story..., posted by sowhysosad on April 16, 2009, at 17:43:44
> > I do believe ssris played into [this]. Partially by hiding a disease that was already in progress, until the disease got strong enough that the meds didn't stand a chance, and it looked like med poopout, but wasn't. The sensitivity to supplements and meds is because...something else is going on.
>
> What are the odds that most of the SSRI horror stories we hear are due to something like this?
>
> Whilst not wishing to belittle anyone's seemingly SSRI-related suffering (I suffered the worst SSRI-induced akathisia last year myself), it does worry me that the horror stories are putting a lot of people off meds who could be significantly helped.I don't think these drugs should be demonized, but I'll say that since the phenomenal sales of these drugs, and many ordinary doctors faith in them, the other side of the coin deserves to be fully explored, the few websites dedicated to negative propaganda on these drugs can never outweight the positive propaganda put forth by the pharma companies.
Posted by polarbear206 on April 17, 2009, at 13:06:34
In reply to Effects of long term SSRI use... My Story..., posted by newquestions on April 16, 2009, at 9:10:07
Posted by bleauberry on April 17, 2009, at 14:58:36
In reply to Re: Effects of long term SSRI use... My Story..., posted by NewQuestions on April 17, 2009, at 8:12:19
The problem with all of these stories, including our own, is that any academic pinhead, pharm expert, doctor, lawyer, judge, whoever, would say that these symptoms are manifestations of the underlying disease, not the meds, and that the meds are needed. It is the patient's fault for not seeking medical care to treat the symptoms. I guarantee you that is their way out of it.
> Read these stories. People need full information before making a decision as to whether to go on an SSRI. The drug companies surely won't tell you about this!
>
> http://www.paxilprogress.org/forums/showthread.php?t=20079
Posted by sowhysosad on April 17, 2009, at 16:56:54
In reply to Re: Effects of long term SSRI use... My Story..., posted by bleauberry on April 17, 2009, at 14:58:36
I'm sure they would use that defence, but it's possible that in some cases the symptoms aren't med-related and were being masked by meds, which is why we need to be cautious when reading these horror stories.
Is there even a scrap of rational scientific evidence that proves SSRI's caused these long-term effects?
> The problem with all of these stories, including our own, is that any academic pinhead, pharm expert, doctor, lawyer, judge, whoever, would say that these symptoms are manifestations of the underlying disease, not the meds, and that the meds are needed. It is the patient's fault for not seeking medical care to treat the symptoms. I guarantee you that is their way out of it.
Posted by Sigismund on April 17, 2009, at 19:40:34
In reply to Re: Effects of long term SSRI use... My Story..., posted by sowhysosad on April 17, 2009, at 16:56:54
>Is there even a scrap of rational scientific evidence that proves SSRI's caused these long-term effects?
Who would pay for it?
Posted by connor on April 18, 2009, at 0:02:31
In reply to Re: Effects of long term SSRI use... My Story..., posted by sowhysosad on April 17, 2009, at 16:56:54
I'm tired of doctors blaming everything on the condition itself. Sure it's possible, but, like me when you go on meds for one problem then suddenly a million others pop up that weren't there before you start to become suspicious. The doctors admit that they don't know exactly how these meds work yet they will never admit that these drugs can cause long term effects,
Anecdotal reports, are just that, anecdotal. But when every long term side effect is AUTOMATICALLY just passed off as the condition worsening, how on earth are these effects suppose to be documented. The side effects of these medications cause the exact same effects that depression causes. And because of that it's nearly impossible to prove any of this.
> I'm sure they would use that defence, but it's possible that in some cases the symptoms aren't med-related and were being masked by meds, which is why we need to be cautious when reading these horror stories.
>
> Is there even a scrap of rational scientific evidence that proves SSRI's caused these long-term effects?
>
> > The problem with all of these stories, including our own, is that any academic pinhead, pharm expert, doctor, lawyer, judge, whoever, would say that these symptoms are manifestations of the underlying disease, not the meds, and that the meds are needed. It is the patient's fault for not seeking medical care to treat the symptoms. I guarantee you that is their way out of it.I know based on my experience and reading many others to corroborate it that ssri's did cause long term damage
Posted by garnet71 on April 18, 2009, at 1:24:44
In reply to Re: Effects of long term SSRI use... My Story..., posted by connor on April 18, 2009, at 0:02:31
Mental illness seems to be progressive; that's the underlying truth that makes me skeptical of such claims. Yeah, sometimes i think my recent GAD symptoms are the result of protracted use of xxRIs-I still think about that. I'll never know. What I think mostly about now, however, is moving forward.
But think about the onset of mental illness. Ok, I realize coming from non-scientific Garnet isn't what anyone would necessarily believe, but isn't the average age of onset of schitzophrenia something like 28 years old? And what are "mental breakdowns" - now believed to be mental "breakthroughs"? Underlying predispositions?
If enviornment is 50% and genetics is 50% (in regard to mental illness), then wouldn't the brain have evolved, in whatever way it changed, partly from its life before psychiatric drugs were introduced?
Still, I like to hear all the anti-psych stuff. I think its important to evaluate things from all angles. Influence is just that. Influence from those groups or individuals that have the most money. Everything is a result of monetary dynamics, no matter how you look at it. So keep talking. That's what dialogue is for. Please stay open minded.
Posted by linkadge on April 18, 2009, at 19:54:08
In reply to Re: Effects of long term SSRI use... My Story... » linkadge, posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on April 17, 2009, at 1:34:35
>I think you would consider my story 'rosey' >then, as many of those so-called *evil* drugs >have helped me,
I'm not going to get into this whole debate again and I really don't have time to read your book of a post. I didn't use the word 'evil' and I think it would be helpful if people didn't jump to conclusions about my posts. All I said, is that "people have a right to hear about any and all experiences with these medications". As much as people like you want to tell people like us to just shut up and stop telling out stories, it ain't going to happen.
Linkadge
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