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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by cache-monkey on December 17, 2006, at 23:00:37
A very troubling thing seems to have happened. I think I've gone allergic to my clonazepam (as a secondary reponse to my super-allergic reaction to Lamictal). I get itchiness and rhinitis that's pretty well correlated in onset with the timing of my Klonopin dose. E.g. if I hold off on the bulk of the dose until night, I don't itch until soon after I take it. It's manageable, but can get pretty annoying, especially as it interferes with my sleep breathing.
I really can't do a dose reduction from where I'm at; at least in a size that's monitorable (1/8 of an mg). I would like to switch to Valium, either as an alternative or to do a slower taper. I realize that all benzos warn against cross-sensitivity to others in the PI sheet (i.e. don't take this if you've ever had an allergic reaction to other benzos).
But, I'm wondering if anyone has been allergic to one and not to others. Or whether anyone knows of any studies indictating similar.
Thanks,
cache-monkey
Posted by yxibow on December 18, 2006, at 1:34:27
In reply to Allergic cross-sensitivity between benzos?, posted by cache-monkey on December 17, 2006, at 23:00:37
> A very troubling thing seems to have happened. I think I've gone allergic to my clonazepam (as a secondary reponse to my super-allergic reaction to Lamictal). I get itchiness and rhinitis that's pretty well correlated in onset with the timing of my Klonopin dose. E.g. if I hold off on the bulk of the dose until night, I don't itch until soon after I take it. It's manageable, but can get pretty annoying, especially as it interferes with my sleep breathing.
>
> I really can't do a dose reduction from where I'm at; at least in a size that's monitorable (1/8 of an mg). I would like to switch to Valium, either as an alternative or to do a slower taper. I realize that all benzos warn against cross-sensitivity to others in the PI sheet (i.e. don't take this if you've ever had an allergic reaction to other benzos).
>
> But, I'm wondering if anyone has been allergic to one and not to others. Or whether anyone knows of any studies indictating similar.
That's curious because I've never really heard of benzodiazepines generally being an agent of allergenic reactions.The interfering with breathing at night though does sound concerning, I would definately ask your doctor about that -- I assume you're not on any level that would cause respiratory depression in and of itself. As for cross-pollination, its more tolerance to benzodiazepines than allergies that I know of.
I assume you're not allergic to the dye that is used in the pills because for example tartrazine allergies are not completely uncommon (FD&C Yellow 6), etc.
-- Jay
Posted by cache-monkey on December 18, 2006, at 2:55:03
In reply to Re: Allergic cross-sensitivity between benzos? » cache-monkey, posted by yxibow on December 18, 2006, at 1:34:27
> That's curious because I've never really heard of benzodiazepines generally being an agent of allergenic reactions.
I know; it's bizarre. The weirdest thing is that somehow it only happened after getting allergic to Lamictal.
> The interfering with breathing at night though does sound concerning, I would definately ask your doctor about that -- I assume you're not on any level that would cause respiratory depression in and of itself.
I'm only on 1 mg, so no respiratory depression. It's more that my mucous membranes get irritated (which happened to the extreme on Lamictal). This causes post-nasal drip, which then causes a little bit of borderline apnea as I dehydrate. More troublesome than worrying, I suppose.
> I assume you're not allergic to the dye that is used in the pills because for example tartrazine allergies are not completely uncommon (FD&C Yellow 6), etc.
Hmm. That's something to consider. This did happen with two different colors of pills (pink and yellow). I wonder if they would have a common colorant...
Thanks,
cache-monkey
Posted by Phillipa on December 18, 2006, at 11:28:21
In reply to Re: Allergic cross-sensitivity between benzos? » cache-monkey, posted by yxibow on December 18, 2006, at 1:34:27
Jay as usual you have taught me something. But it's okay to xanax with valium right? Love Phillipa
Posted by Quintal on December 18, 2006, at 12:54:19
In reply to Allergic cross-sensitivity between benzos?, posted by cache-monkey on December 17, 2006, at 23:00:37
Increased secretions in the respiritory tract is supposedly a common side effect of Klonopin. Never noticed it myself until I took doses of up to 20mg. I wonder if this is what may be going on?
Q
Posted by yxibow on December 18, 2006, at 20:20:56
In reply to Re: Allergic cross-sensitivity between benzos? » yxibow, posted by Phillipa on December 18, 2006, at 11:28:21
> Jay as usual you have taught me something. But it's okay to xanax with valium right? Love Phillipa
Oh, yes... that's fine, I do too... rarely PRN Xanax. The actual equivalency in terms of charts is piddles to the Valium but Xanax provides a more "immediacy" effect than Valium for extra bad days.
-- tidings
Jay
Posted by Phillipa on December 18, 2006, at 21:19:05
In reply to Re: Allergic cross-sensitivity between benzos? » Phillipa, posted by yxibow on December 18, 2006, at 20:20:56
Jay I'm adding it to the valium at bedtime. How come I only get about 3 hours sleep out of l5mg of valium and .5mg of xanax? And then wake in a hot sweat(not hot flashes) with the temp 66%, repeat now 5mg of valium and to get body temp down 2 motrin. For some reason motrin seems to help me sleep. Doesn't make any sense to me. But to you it might. Love jan
Posted by yxibow on December 19, 2006, at 20:38:34
In reply to Re: Allergic cross-sensitivity between benzos? » yxibow, posted by Phillipa on December 18, 2006, at 21:19:05
> Jay I'm adding it to the valium at bedtime. How come I only get about 3 hours sleep out of l5mg of valium and .5mg of xanax? And then wake in a hot sweat(not hot flashes) with the temp 66%, repeat now 5mg of valium and to get body temp down 2 motrin. For some reason motrin seems to help me sleep. Doesn't make any sense to me. But to you it might. Love jan
Well for some people (generic) ibuprofen (which is all Motrin is) make them sleepier. For me, its not a great antipyretic (fever reducer). In fact, acetaminophen and aspirin are really the only major fever reducers out there; largely ibuprofen serves as a pain reliever. But I guess perhaps for you, maybe there's a difference. For odd, "heat feelings" that I experience, I take generic acetaminophen. There's no actual fever but it somehow reduces some complex internally generated process.
After all this time you may have reached a grand point where you are habituating to Valium somewhat -- although the dose you're on is not particularly high or worrysome from my laymans observation.
You're kind of waking up from a "catnap" and I frequently have hot sensations waking up from such a short period. Sometimes headaches, heat sensations, muscle tightness -- whatever has gone on, you're abruptly returned to the world during a possible thrashing dream you will never remember and the brain just reacts a bit. That's about as scientific as I can get on it -- but I definately know that naps of varieties while they may be restorative to my disorder can leave me in exactly the state you're saying.As I've said before, not to be offensive, you do not have to post your age, but I gather you are postmenopausal; as we age, sleep also becomes more interrupted at night, REM changes -- so it may not be entirely benzodiazepine related.
I think you already went through the Lunesta/Ambien/Sonata circle ? If not its worth a try. As I've posted before, and yes its true not everyone gets depressed on it, I suppose you could take melatonin once or twice a week just to "reset your clock", but I know you have issues of anxiety and depression and I wouldn't want to mess with your hormones and thyroid.
I don't know if your doctor is willing to give you a trial amount of Restoril or Dalmane, which is the only other thing I can think of -- there would be crosspollinating since they are benzodiazepines, but in the short term they might provide some relief. In the long term you could become quickly acclimated, unlike Lunesta and Ambien which would take longer.
But as for the heat sensations and all that, those are primitive instincts of the autonomic nervous system -- everybody has them, without it, our fight or flight mechanism would not be productive. I had large amounts of them when I had bad OCD in high school. If the Motrin works -- and you can get generic, its so much cheaper, but if you like the brand, that's fine -- then go ahead. The tolerance for error on ibuprofen is much higher than on acetaminophen. 400mg of ibuprofen (I think yours comes in 200s) is not particularly harmful since you don't take much else. For me, only acetaminophen or possibly high dose aspirin would work. Don't worry too much about it -- and you're continuing to see consultation about thyroid issues, which I definately can't tell you about, so feel free to mention these things there too.
-- to better sleepJay
Posted by Quintal on December 19, 2006, at 21:17:45
In reply to Re: Allergic cross-sensitivity between benzos? » Phillipa, posted by yxibow on December 19, 2006, at 20:38:34
>Well for some people (generic) ibuprofen (which is all Motrin is) make them sleepier. For me, its not a great antipyretic (fever reducer). In fact, acetaminophen and aspirin are really the only major fever reducers out there; largely ibuprofen serves as a pain reliever. But I guess perhaps for you, maybe there's a difference. For odd, "heat feelings" that I experience, I take generic acetaminophen. There's no actual fever but it somehow reduces some complex internally generated process.
>
My aunt takes a 500mg tablet of paracetamol (acetaminophen) at night and says it helps her sleep. I guess it helps with mild aches and pains and muscular soreness that would otherwise keep you awake? It has that effect on me, but I take two Nurofen Plus which has 12.8mg codeine and 200mg ibuprofen per tablet. The codeine also helps me sleep. Can you get OTC tablets that contain codeine in the US? I heard the restrictions are much harsher.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motrin
Q
Posted by Phillipa on December 19, 2006, at 22:02:20
In reply to Re: Allergic cross-sensitivity between benzos?, posted by Quintal on December 19, 2006, at 21:17:45
So advil is the same as Motrin? Didnt know that. And thanks to both Jay and Quintal. Now if only I could figure out how to get over the what others say is tolerance to benzos maybe I could live again in peace, and relax. Any suggestions. Jay I asked my pdoc over the phone for something specifically for sleep and she didn't call anything in. I took ambien once with beieve me its tre remeron l5mg, seroquel total l00mg, xanax and chloral hydrate in the hospital still woke in four hours. Age huh? Love Phillipa, Jan to you both
Posted by cache-monkey on December 21, 2006, at 0:53:35
In reply to Re: Allergic cross-sensitivity between benzos? » cache-monkey, posted by Quintal on December 18, 2006, at 12:54:19
> Increased secretions in the respiritory tract is supposedly a common side effect of Klonopin. Never noticed it myself until I took doses of up to 20mg. I wonder if this is what may be going on?
Hmm. I dunno. There also seems to be some urinary irritation, which seems to fluctuate along with the other symptoms.
When I meet with my pdoc next, I'm going to bring up switching to valium. Hopefully there aren't too many cognitive issues with diazepam; I've heard that Klonopin is the kindest in that regard.
Thanks again for the input.
Best,
cache-monkey
This is the end of the thread.
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