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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 24 of 24. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Karen44 on July 17, 2006, at 0:45:54
I am so sick and tired of medications and decided not to take the new ones prescribed by my pdoc. In fact I am thinking of firing him. I am very depressed again and think maybe this is just how it is. I am not suicidal, but I have one hell of a time doing my job and getting through the day. I don't want to go back on Parnate as it left me unable to go to sleep at night, and then I would be tired during the afternoon the next day. I've tried everything else with problems from all. I don't want to do Lamictal for depression, and given my history of adverse and allergic reactions, what idiot would start me out on 50 mg. per day. I am aware that Lamictal is now being used for depression, but I am hearing so many people say they have problems with this medication as well. The starter dose is sitting on my dresser since last Friday, and I feel like throwing it in my doctor's face when I see him Friday. Enough already; you are fired. I have forwarned him that it is my intent to terminate with him and find someone more knowledgeable in doing therapy. He things he knows therapy, but he doesn't. Anyone esle fed up with this whole thing or are you just enjoying this sh*t.
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on July 17, 2006, at 2:53:19
In reply to Sick and tired of medications, posted by Karen44 on July 17, 2006, at 0:45:54
Hiya!
Well, have you considered 'alternative' treatments?? Like St John's Wort, sam-e, amino acids etc etc??? There is alot to chose from. If you haven't tried SJW already, I highly recommend it, its great for anxiety and depression. It might take awhile to kick in (what doesn't?) but its very effective. And there are virtually no side effects in most people.
Personally, I have given up on conventional medications, and I am finding alot of relief from depression taking Rhodiola rosea.
Kind regards
Meri
Posted by pizzaslap on July 17, 2006, at 4:39:10
In reply to Sick and tired of medications, posted by Karen44 on July 17, 2006, at 0:45:54
Yes I feel your pain. The worst is having to deal with the docs schedule. For example, you're prescribed medication X on Friday and quickly find out that the side effects are intolerable. You call your docs office, but, of course they're unavailable until Monday. You call Monday and the office says "ok, he's booked until 3 weeks from now". So, you have to eat the side effects for 3 weeks. Or, you get a hold of the doc (after bugging the hell out of the staff) and he says "ok, well, just stop taking those and I'll see you in 3 weeks". OK, you stop taking the meds and are still messed up with your original dysfunction until you get to see him. You tell the staff "can't you just prescribe me something different" and they say "no, the doc is particular about seeing patients before prescribing medications." Well, that sounds good in theory, but, a lot can happen in three weeks. For example: you get fired from your job and don't have health insurance to pay the bastard anymore. So, lets say you survive the 3 weeks. Well, at that point, you go to your doc armed with research that you've done yourself. The doc listens to you for a second, asks you 2 questions, and then prescribes something new. You leave the office *cha-ching* and pay the cashier. Something you wonder to yourself "hmm, I wouldn't have prescribed that --- but, he must know what he's talking about considering all the schooling that he's gone through." *buzz*, wrong...
Our illness requires that we be proactive in our care.
> I am so sick and tired of medications and decided not to take the new ones prescribed by my pdoc. In fact I am thinking of firing him. I am very depressed again and think maybe this is just how it is. I am not suicidal, but I have one hell of a time doing my job and getting through the day. I don't want to go back on Parnate as it left me unable to go to sleep at night, and then I would be tired during the afternoon the next day. I've tried everything else with problems from all. I don't want to do Lamictal for depression, and given my history of adverse and allergic reactions, what idiot would start me out on 50 mg. per day. I am aware that Lamictal is now being used for depression, but I am hearing so many people say they have problems with this medication as well. The starter dose is sitting on my dresser since last Friday, and I feel like throwing it in my doctor's face when I see him Friday. Enough already; you are fired. I have forwarned him that it is my intent to terminate with him and find someone more knowledgeable in doing therapy. He things he knows therapy, but he doesn't. Anyone esle fed up with this whole thing or are you just enjoying this sh*t.
Posted by SLS on July 17, 2006, at 5:35:27
In reply to Sick and tired of medications, posted by Karen44 on July 17, 2006, at 0:45:54
It sounds like you need a break from drug trials.
I am frustrated to hear that insomnia was the reason you discontinued Parnate. I am equally dismayed to hear that people taking Emsam see it as an obstacle to continued treatment with that drug. I believe that MAOI-induced insomnia should be treated as aggressively as the depression itself, and not be allowed to act as a barrier to attain mental health. There are so many hypnotic treatments available, I can't see that failure would be a frequent outcome.
I say go for the SJW and perhaps fish oil.
If it becomes necessary to return to pharmacotherapy in the future, you will be able to attack it with renewed energy and tolerance for the side effects. Current medications do not offer an ideal solution, but mental illness is not an ideal living condition.
> I am very depressed again and think maybe this is just how it is.
No. It definitely gets better than this, and you deserve it.
- Scott
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on July 17, 2006, at 6:34:58
In reply to Sick and tired of medications, posted by Karen44 on July 17, 2006, at 0:45:54
Oh I forgot to mention that if you decide to go for SJW, please post on the alternative board and we'll be glad to help with any questions, etc etc you may have.
Also, check out this site:
Kind regards
Meri
Posted by ciaolavida on July 17, 2006, at 10:53:56
In reply to Sick and tired of medications, posted by Karen44 on July 17, 2006, at 0:45:54
Karen-
I know how terrible it is to try 1000 drugs and then think of trying another. It's like, just give up already! But then you feel so awful...
Anyway, I just wanted to say I've been on lamictal for ultradian cycling (different from depression, I know) but a lot of people have real success with lamictal and depression! If you haven't tried it yet, I really recommend it. I know you mentioned severe allergies but I too get hives even if you scrape my skin with something, and I haven't gotten the rash on lamictal. Just demand that your doctor start you on 12.5 of 25 mg. Granted it will take about half a year to work up, but that may be better than trying nothing at all!
Best of luck to you!
Posted by Phillipa on July 17, 2006, at 12:37:16
In reply to Re: Sick and tired of medications, posted by ciaolavida on July 17, 2006, at 10:53:56
That's what I'm doing with the lamictal l2.5mg a day but I keep getting more tired and waking up later ll:00 today. Well I don't go to bed till l:30 or 2am but I feel so guilty. Everyone else has already gone out. But can you stop an antidepressant that isn't working anyway luvox l00 and just take the lamictal and valium 20mg at night or try to cut down on valium. I'm so confused and the docs say you know what to do. Well I don't and either do they that's why they say that I think. Love Phillipa frustrated phillipa
Posted by UgottaHaveHOPE on July 17, 2006, at 14:18:08
In reply to Sick and tired of medications, posted by Karen44 on July 17, 2006, at 0:45:54
Karen, I am so sorry you are having such a challenging time. I want to encourage you to seek out a second or even third opinion. There is never anything wrong with that.
I want to also encourage you to try other meds. Somewhere out there, there is a med for you. Unfortunately for most of us, you have to try a few before finding something that works. It took me nine years and 30 meds before finally stumbling into something that had a positive effect.
Please continue to post your feelings on this board. There are a lot of ppl on here that care and can relate. Best wishes, Michael
Posted by Karen44 on July 17, 2006, at 22:47:16
In reply to Re: Sick and tired of medications, posted by ciaolavida on July 17, 2006, at 10:53:56
> Karen-
>
> I know how terrible it is to try 1000 drugs and then think of trying another. It's like, just give up already! But then you feel so awful...
>
> Anyway, I just wanted to say I've been on lamictal for ultradian cycling (different from depression, I know) but a lot of people have real success with lamictal and depression! If you haven't tried it yet, I really recommend it. I know you mentioned severe allergies but I too get hives even if you scrape my skin with something, and I haven't gotten the rash on lamictal. Just demand that your doctor start you on 12.5 of 25 mg. Granted it will take about half a year to work up, but that may be better than trying nothing at all!
>
> Best of luck to you!Thanks to all; I am halfway considering taking at least 25 mg. of Lamictal. I don't understand why my doctor wanted me to start out at 50 mg. Seems rather high to me for a starting dose. Is this true--to start out at 50 mg. for depression. He also gave me a script for Moban to take 5mg. in the evening for the next 20 days to help me sleep because I am again having problems going to sleep at night. I have become extremely inefficient at work and can barely get reports done on time without also spending the whole weekend writing reports just so I stay current. Why couldn't he give me the Moban when I was on Parnate??? Parnate worked to a point, but over 30 mg. made no difference from 30 mg. More was not better. I don't know what to do as I think I want to see someone different, and so would it be wise to start on a medication with one doctor when another might say try something different?? Also, I am afraid to start something new in the middle of the week and go to work and maybe be wacko from the medication. What does anyone think of starting out at 50 mg. Lamictal for depression???? Thanks
Posted by blueberry on July 18, 2006, at 16:32:54
In reply to Sick and tired of medications, posted by Karen44 on July 17, 2006, at 0:45:54
I agree with Meri-Tuuli...st johns wort and rhodiola rosea are amazing herbs. Take one or take both.
And don't rule out electroconvulsive therapy. ECT has a success rate of 70% - 90% (the 70% range is for the elderly), with minor side effects compared to what you've experienced from meds and depression. ECT is for people who do not respond well to meds or who cannot take meds due to side effects and when a rapid response is desired.
Of the 20 or 30 meds I've ever taken, nothing, I mean nothing, ever worked nearly as good as the Kira brand st johns wort.
Posted by Karen44 on July 18, 2006, at 20:40:16
In reply to Re: Sick and tired of medications, posted by blueberry on July 18, 2006, at 16:32:54
> I agree with Meri-Tuuli...st johns wort and rhodiola rosea are amazing herbs. Take one or take both.
>
> And don't rule out electroconvulsive therapy. ECT has a success rate of 70% - 90% (the 70% range is for the elderly), with minor side effects compared to what you've experienced from meds and depression. ECT is for people who do not respond well to meds or who cannot take meds due to side effects and when a rapid response is desired.
>
> Of the 20 or 30 meds I've ever taken, nothing, I mean nothing, ever worked nearly as good as the Kira brand st johns wort.
Well I appreciate your comments, but there is no way I would ever consider ECT. My job requires me to have a good memory for events, current, recent, short-term, and long term. I go to court to testify about cases, and I would not have a job anymore if I could not remember my cases. YIKES; I'm not ready to give up working.I think right now part of the problem is my physical problems too. I have continued to cough up blood daily; it's not cancer; that was ruled out per a CT scan recently; but lungs inflamed and pooling of blood; it hurts to breathe; I emailed my pulmonary doctor today; he wants me to get a bronchoscopy to rule out infection or something else. It hurts to breathe, and so I am in a funk over this as well as the fact that I am firing my psychiatrist Friday and looking at going to someone else. So, I am not on any psychotropic medication at the present time, though some was prescribed last Friday. I decided not to take it for now until I see a new doctor and see what he or she thinks.
Posted by Denise190466 on July 19, 2006, at 15:30:10
In reply to Re: Sick and tired of medications, posted by Karen44 on July 18, 2006, at 20:40:16
Karen,
I'm sorry to hear you have physical problems on top of this awful depression.
I know what you mean about this whole medication merry go round thing, what's the saying "if at first you don't succeed, try, try, try again but don't be a bloody fool about it" That's how I feel at times why don't I just give up and if it wasn't for Zyprexa I probably would have done that. Thing is I'm even worse without medication so have to keep trying.
They give you a med, expect you to stick it out for at least five weeks even if it makes you more suicidal, sick, zoned out, apathetic, zombified, excruciatingly agitated, sweat like a pig etc etc, then after five weeks if it still istn't working and you still feel horrible, try increasing the dose! Then if this doesn't work they switch you to another drug and then another then another and so it goes.
You ring the psychiatrist to get through to his secretary telling her that you feel suicidal and she tells you "he's busy" and to try again later!
I'm also sick of NHS psychiatrists in the UK and their lack of urgency and cautiousness. Most of them can't speak English very well (and I'm not prejudiced at all) but I think it pretty important to be able to communicate well about how you're feeling. Half of the NHS psychiatrists here in England seem to have less get up and go than I do! And they are so worried about covering their own backs (I guess I would be too though in their shoes).
Another thing I hate is the fact that when the drugs don't seem to work and you don't get a response they try to pin Bipolar Disorder or Personality Disorder on you even though the drugs have worked for you in the past!
And if all else fails then they palm you off to a Cognitive Behavioural Therapist! And to be honest I don't have much faith in this therapy for me(although it does help to talk and I'd love to be able to do it once a week just to get all this off my chest). But all in all I'm pretty certain I think the way I think because of the way I feel (which is sh*t) and not vice versa. I don't want somebody patronising me and telling me to do and think this that and the other when I already do this! I Probably do more and try a lot more than many Cognitive Behavioural Therapists do themselves. For instance when I get PMT my moods go down even more, they go down because of hormonal changes and not because of the way I am thinking!
Sorry, I just wanted to rant so entirely understand if you don't respond to my note.
By the way I'm not an expert but I think it would be safe to start at 50mg of Lamictal, I took 50mg for a week and didn't develop a rash but then we're all different. To be honest sometimes when I took it I felt I couldn't care less if I got one or not but then I guess if push came to shove I probably would.
I hope the St John's Wort and fish oil helps but again I'm very cynical about trying these things when you're standard drugs don't work. It's worth a try though.
Kind Regards....Denise
Posted by Phillipa on July 19, 2006, at 20:35:40
In reply to Re: Sick and tired of medications, posted by Denise190466 on July 19, 2006, at 15:30:10
We have lamictal starter kits in the US. And the first two weeks you take 25mg second two weeks 50mg and then 100mg if you need it some have a response at lower than that. Love Phillipa
Posted by Karen44 on July 19, 2006, at 23:58:11
In reply to Re: Sick and tired of medications » Denise190466, posted by Phillipa on July 19, 2006, at 20:35:40
> We have lamictal starter kits in the US. And the first two weeks you take 25mg second two weeks 50mg and then 100mg if you need it some have a response at lower than that. Love Phillipa
Denise and Jan;
No; we also have starter kits in the u.s. that start you out at 50 mg. per day for the first two weeks--the green starter kit. Check it out. Denise; do not apologize for ranting. I understand. I was not going to check Babble tonight but decided to do so. Just learned earlier this evening that my brohter died. He was found dead in his apartment. He was a paranoid schizophrenic who would not take medications. Apparently he had all the windows closed and no AC on, and it has been a bitch of a heat wave in the Midwest (and elsewere). Apparently he was not dead more than 24 hours when they found him. I am feeling numb. This is the *sshole who tried to kill me more than once and abused me in other ways as well. He was six and one-half years older than me. It is hard for me to feel bad that he is dead. Now I ramble. Sorry.
Posted by SLS on July 20, 2006, at 6:00:49
In reply to Re: Sick and tired of medications, posted by Karen44 on July 19, 2006, at 23:58:11
> I was not going to check Babble tonight but decided to do so. Just learned earlier this evening that my brohter died.
My sincerest of condolences.
- Scott
Posted by Crazy Horse on July 20, 2006, at 10:25:56
In reply to Sick and tired of medications, posted by Karen44 on July 17, 2006, at 0:45:54
> I am so sick and tired of medications and decided not to take the new ones prescribed by my pdoc. In fact I am thinking of firing him. I am very depressed again and think maybe this is just how it is. I am not suicidal, but I have one hell of a time doing my job and getting through the day. I don't want to go back on Parnate as it left me unable to go to sleep at night, and then I would be tired during the afternoon the next day. I've tried everything else with problems from all. I don't want to do Lamictal for depression, and given my history of adverse and allergic reactions, what idiot would start me out on 50 mg. per day. I am aware that Lamictal is now being used for depression, but I am hearing so many people say they have problems with this medication as well. The starter dose is sitting on my dresser since last Friday, and I feel like throwing it in my doctor's face when I see him Friday. Enough already; you are fired. I have forwarned him that it is my intent to terminate with him and find someone more knowledgeable in doing therapy. He things he knows therapy, but he doesn't. Anyone esle fed up with this whole thing or are you just enjoying this sh*t.
I hear ya..sometimes i wish i could "sh*t can" all my meds!! The side effects, the cost, the hassle of having to take so many..theres just no end to the list. I'd give my Left arm to not have to take all these meds every day for the rest of my life. You are not alone. God bless you.
Monte
Posted by Karen44 on July 20, 2006, at 21:52:32
In reply to Re: Sick and tired of medications, posted by Crazy Horse on July 20, 2006, at 10:25:56
Well; don't get rid of your medications yet, Monte. I may have stopped the old med's and not started on the new ones yet, but I will also say I am so profoundly depressed now that I would not have the energy to kill myself if I was so inclined. I plan to fire my doctor tomorrow or maybe I will string him along while trying out someone new. Anyway, I decided not to start any of the medications this week, in part, becuase I am going in for a bronchocopy next Thursday. I don't want to muck with somethign new right before that.
Karen
Posted by Crazy Horse on July 21, 2006, at 11:40:24
In reply to Re: Sick and tired of medications, posted by Karen44 on July 20, 2006, at 21:52:32
Karen, don't worry i will NEVER go off them, just wish i could. I have tried going off in the past and ended up in the Hospital for 2 1/2 months with ECT treatments..ugh! I hate the hassles, side effects, cost, etc. but they do prevent me from comitting "Harry Carey!" So, i am thankful they exist. Take care.
Monte
Posted by stargazer on July 21, 2006, at 22:15:43
In reply to Re: Sick and tired of medications » Karen44, posted by Crazy Horse on July 21, 2006, at 11:40:24
I started on Lamictal a few months ago and haven't had any side effects to speak of which is unheard of for me. I think I started on 50 mg and now take 100mg in am, 100 mg in pm. I don't know what it is doing though but the SE's are non-existent and I usually have a very low tolerance of most medications. I just started on Risperdal (0.25 mg at night) about a week ago, and I have had a drop in my BP making me feel lightheaded and dizzy. That is a ridiculously low dosage and yet I have effects from it.
You have to go with what you're comfortable with and if starting at a very low dosage helps you feel more comfortable, then that is what you should do. My doc knows to start me on a minute dosage of any med, yet he started me on 50mg of Lamictal. Luckily I haven't reacted negatively to it.
Good luck to you with starting this.
Posted by stargazer on July 21, 2006, at 22:23:55
In reply to Re: Sick and tired of medications, posted by stargazer on July 21, 2006, at 22:15:43
Posted by Karen44 on July 21, 2006, at 23:22:29
In reply to Re: Sick and tired of medications » Karen44, posted by Crazy Horse on July 21, 2006, at 11:40:24
I saw my psychiatrist today, and he said he told me to start out on the 25 mg. of Lamictal, so I will give it a try plus take the Moban at night. We agreed that it is not in my best interests to keep meeting once per week, and more often with him is logistically impossible. I already take off a half day of work to see him once per week, and so to see him twice per week which I could do, would mean missing the equivalent of one day of work per week every week. I have the name of another psychiatrist who is also a psychoanalyst, and he is closer (in my county), and so I will be meeting with him to see if we can work together. I then meet with my old psychiatrist in three weeks. I feel so horrible about this, as I really like my current doctor, but it is true that things were spilling over from Friday into the weekend and then started to spill over into the following week. I was having trouble pulling myself together. It is just such a difficult time. My brother died this week, and I almost could not stop myself from jumping in front of the METRA train to go home. I ended up turning my back and vomiting on the train platform. I have had problems with dissociating in the past, and now I am afraid I might kill myself without realizing it; this happened to me many, many years ago and is why I ended up in the hospital at Menninger's in the 1980'. I am sorry to burden anyone with this, but I am not sure what to do anymore. I sure don't want to tell some new doctor I am possibly on the verge of suicide; he would likely say that he did not think he could work with me, that there is unfinished businees with my current psychiatrist, and he would be right.
Karen
Posted by Karen44 on July 22, 2006, at 0:32:09
In reply to Re: Sick and tired of medications, posted by Karen44 on July 21, 2006, at 23:22:29
Okay; I am going to add something to my last email. I have been told that if someone talks about suicide Dr. Bob traces their email and send someone to their home. If this is true, Dr. Bob, be assured that I am not planning to kill myself. If I were going to do it, I would not say anything to anyone. You can talk to Dr. Larry Goldman. You know him from when he was also at the University of Chicago. He is who I have been seeing. So, leave me alone.
Karen
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 26, 2006, at 8:46:43
In reply to Re: Sick and tired of medications, posted by Karen44 on July 22, 2006, at 0:32:09
> I have been told that if someone talks about suicide Dr. Bob traces their email and send someone to their home. If this is true, Dr. Bob, be assured that I am not planning to kill myself.
It takes more than just talking about suicide, and I myself can't send someone there, since I don't know where anyone lives, but I'm glad you're not planning to kill yourself.
> You can talk to Dr. Larry Goldman. You know him from when he was also at the University of Chicago. He is who I have been seeing.
Small world, tell him I said hi! :-)
Bob
Posted by Karen44 on July 26, 2006, at 22:28:14
In reply to Re: talking about suicide, posted by Dr. Bob on July 26, 2006, at 8:46:43
> > I have been told that if someone talks about suicide Dr. Bob traces their email and send someone to their home. If this is true, Dr. Bob, be assured that I am not planning to kill myself.
>
> It takes more than just talking about suicide, and I myself can't send someone there, since I don't know where anyone lives, but I'm glad you're not planning to kill yourself.
>
> > You can talk to Dr. Larry Goldman. You know him from when he was also at the University of Chicago. He is who I have been seeing.
>
> Small world, tell him I said hi! :-)
>
> Bob
I will tell him you said hello, but I may not be seeing him for long as it seems he wants to dump me. I have not been the most compliant patient in the world in that I sometimes challenger him and have, unfortunately, pointed out some of what I view as his shortcomings--my perception--mentioned about him getting fired from his job wiht the AMA and not being a team player because he never stays anywhere for long. Alas, I may have pushed things too far to repair the damage. Too bad because I actually like him. Am no longer in a panic about the possibility, just sad. I trusted him a lot, but that may not be enough anymore
This is the end of the thread.
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