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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 7 of 7. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by saturn on May 21, 2006, at 13:27:08
Does anyone use pseudoephedrine for ADHD?
It is structurally and mechanistically related to amphetamine.
If I haven't taken it in a while it 30 mgs helps a little. Nowhere near effective as the rx stimulants, but noticeable and better than coffee in my experience. It also helps with my nose allergies a lot. And I can tolerate it whereas I can't tolerate rx stims.
I'm curious to hear anyone's experiences on this.
Also, does anyone know if pseudoephedrine is sold as a racemic mixture? If so would this be analagous to amphetamine where the D-isomer has the strongest central effects and L-isomer more peripheral (in this case clearing nasal passages).
I know sudafed can cause a positive amphetamine test. Is there any conversion to amphetamine?
Thanks, -sat
Posted by BrianBoru on May 23, 2006, at 10:55:08
In reply to adhd--sudafed: anyone use and is it racemic?, posted by saturn on May 21, 2006, at 13:27:08
Sure there's a conversion to amphetamine. It is used to manufacture illegal methamphetamine !
Posted by whitelab on May 23, 2006, at 16:28:14
In reply to adhd--sudafed: anyone use and is it racemic?, posted by saturn on May 21, 2006, at 13:27:08
I don't know how well it functions as an ADD med--it does have a definite stimulant effect. I've used it many times to stay awake for a long drive, and you're right, it is better that coffee.
But ephedrine/pseudoephedrine have a hydoxyl group adjacent to the business end of the molecule. This shift in electron density changes everything. I would think if it helped ADD, the word would be out and at least some MDs would be using it. I take 60 mg Adderall on most days--it's different from taking sudafed.
The man-made versions of the drugs are racemic (dl-). The naturally occuring molecules are only one isomer for each. I can't remember which is d-and which is l-, check the Merck Index. Why are you interested in that bit of info?
--Whitelab
Posted by saturn on May 24, 2006, at 10:03:34
In reply to Re: adhd--sudafed: anyone use and is it racemic?, posted by whitelab on May 23, 2006, at 16:28:14
> I don't know how well it functions as an ADD med--it does have a definite stimulant effect. I've used it many times to stay awake for a long drive, and you're right, it is better that coffee.
>
> But ephedrine/pseudoephedrine have a hydoxyl group adjacent to the business end of the molecule. This shift in electron density changes everything. I would think if it helped ADD, the word would be out and at least some MDs would be using it. I take 60 mg Adderall on most days--it's different from taking sudafed.
>
> The man-made versions of the drugs are racemic (dl-). The naturally occuring molecules are only one isomer for each.Perhaps I'm mistaken, but I don't think sudafed or any of the stimulants are naturally occuring.
>>I can't remember which is d-and which is l-, check the Merck Index. Why are you interested in that bit of info?I'm wondering if you couldn't separate out the active isomer and use it for adhd.
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 24, 2006, at 17:25:35
In reply to Re: adhd--sudafed: anyone use and is it racemic? » whitelab, posted by saturn on May 24, 2006, at 10:03:34
> Perhaps I'm mistaken, but I don't think sudafed or any of the stimulants are naturally occuring.
Sure. Ephedrine is named after its plant source, genus Ephedra. Cocaine is from Coca. Caffeine is from Caffe (Italian form of genus name). And so on. Pseudoephedrine is an isomer of ephedrine.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudoephedrine
Lar
Posted by helpme on July 9, 2006, at 11:47:53
In reply to Re: adhd--sudafed: anyone use and is it racemic? » whitelab, posted by saturn on May 24, 2006, at 10:03:34
You should just try to get a proper script of something else- starting to sound like cooking meth or something--like asking for trouble. A lot of states keep sudafed behind the pharmacy counter now anyway, so its not all that easy to get as it used to be. In mine you need to show your Driver Liscence to buy it.
If you really want to know, a guy I knew in college drank a bottle of cherry flavour sudafed cough medicine to "trip', but he just got really ill and vomited all over the place all night. Wasn't properly stimulating in this case, and didn't help him study, either.
But you seem to know a lot about chemistry.
And why do you think sudafed is natural?By the way, my Atkins Nutrition book notes that the "L" is natural, "D" is manmade.
> > I don't know how well it functions as an ADD med--it does have a definite stimulant effect. I've used it many times to stay awake for a long drive, and you're right, it is better that coffee.
> >
> > But ephedrine/pseudoephedrine have a hydoxyl group adjacent to the business end of the molecule. This shift in electron density changes everything. I would think if it helped ADD, the word would be out and at least some MDs would be using it. I take 60 mg Adderall on most days--it's different from taking sudafed.
> >
> > The man-made versions of the drugs are racemic (dl-). The naturally occuring molecules are only one isomer for each.
>
> Perhaps I'm mistaken, but I don't think sudafed or any of the stimulants are naturally occuring.
>
> >>I can't remember which is d-and which is l-, check the Merck Index. Why are you interested in that bit of info?
>
> I'm wondering if you couldn't separate out the active isomer and use it for adhd.
>
>
Posted by saturn on July 9, 2006, at 12:39:51
In reply to Re: adhd--sudafed: anyone use and is it racemic?, posted by helpme on July 9, 2006, at 11:47:53
Hi whitelab
> You should just try to get a proper script of something else-
I have, many many times and cannot tolerate any of them.
>> starting to sound like cooking meth or something--like asking for trouble.
With all due respect I don't care what it sounds like. My pediatrician started me on pseudoephedrine at 12 years old. I've been taking it as a rx combo or OTC med for nearly 20 years.
>>A lot of states keep sudafed behind the pharmacy counter now anyway, so its not all that easy to get as it used to be. In mine you need to show your Driver Liscence to buy it.
Same here, but I've never had any trouble buying it over the counter before or after these new restrictions. The biggest inconvenience is having to buy it during regular pharmacy hours.
The last time I bought it the pharmacist commented that the government should just make it available only by rx if they're gonna make such a big deal about it. I tend to agree.
BTW, I heard somewhere that only a very small fraction of meth is actually manufactured from pseudoephedrine. Don't know if this is accurate though.
>>>... Wasn't properly stimulating in this case, and didn't help him study, either.
I can notice a definite improvement in my ADHD symptoms on sudafed, though they are minimimal compared to rx stimulants.
>
> But you seem to know a lot about chemistry.
> And why do you think sudafed is natural?I don't know why I thought that.
>
> By the way, my Atkins Nutrition book notes that the "L" is natural, "D" is manmade.I think this is relative to the particular chemical. For example, our bodies use the naturally occuring "L" isomer of amino acids. In contrast, naturally occuring vitamin E is is the "D" form (d-alpha tocopherol).
Thanks for the feedback :)
>
>
> > > I don't know how well it functions as an ADD med--it does have a definite stimulant effect. I've used it many times to stay awake for a long drive, and you're right, it is better that coffee.
> > >
> > > But ephedrine/pseudoephedrine have a hydoxyl group adjacent to the business end of the molecule. This shift in electron density changes everything. I would think if it helped ADD, the word would be out and at least some MDs would be using it. I take 60 mg Adderall on most days--it's different from taking sudafed.
> > >
> > > The man-made versions of the drugs are racemic (dl-). The naturally occuring molecules are only one isomer for each.
> >
> > Perhaps I'm mistaken, but I don't think sudafed or any of the stimulants are naturally occuring.
> >
> > >>I can't remember which is d-and which is l-, check the Merck Index. Why are you interested in that bit of info?
> >
> > I'm wondering if you couldn't separate out the active isomer and use it for adhd.
> >
> >
>
>
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