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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 27. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Slinky on March 6, 2005, at 20:30:20
Hello... I'll be nice : )
I don't care anymore..people mean nothing..but I know maybe deep down they do..this filter -paxil-
makes me dislike everyone.
I'd like to get off the med but I don't know if I'm safer feeling this way...also my brain needs a rest from going on and off meds.
I've lost all passion and spirituality...
I often think of going a rehab to get off my meds and maybe start again/or not , but a rehab for this problems doesn't exist.
My messy life..I'm sleeping most of it away but I don't really care much.
What I've become is someone with little personality miserable and quite horrible.
Posted by Dinah on March 6, 2005, at 20:57:32
In reply to I know it's the paxil...apathy, posted by Slinky on March 6, 2005, at 20:30:20
I'm sorry, Slinky. I hate the medication merry go round. One medication does a bit too much this, another one a bit too much that. How I wish I were Goldilocks and could find a bowl that was juuuuust right.
Posted by Ritch on March 7, 2005, at 9:52:19
In reply to I know it's the paxil...apathy, posted by Slinky on March 6, 2005, at 20:30:20
> Hello... I'll be nice : )
>
> I don't care anymore..people mean nothing..but I know maybe deep down they do..this filter -paxil-
> makes me dislike everyone.
> I'd like to get off the med but I don't know if I'm safer feeling this way...also my brain needs a rest from going on and off meds.
> I've lost all passion and spirituality...
> I often think of going a rehab to get off my meds and maybe start again/or not , but a rehab for this problems doesn't exist.
> My messy life..I'm sleeping most of it away but I don't really care much.
> What I've become is someone with little personality miserable and quite horrible.
>
>
I think that SSRI's generally could be called "mental crisis anesthetics". You might try slowly backing off the Paxil and find that at some point a *little* works Ok, and you won't feel so BLAH. I'm just taking 1/2mg of liquid Celexa every other day and although I get a little grouchy when I take it, it keeps me from being panicky. At some point though at a little higher dose than that things go from anxious "What If?" to apathetic "Whatever". They have done studies that show that 5mg Prozac actually works *better* after a couple of months than 20mg does (I think Ed posted that recently). Maybe you could get some liquid Paxil and draw down your dose and see what happens?
Posted by greg diamond on March 7, 2005, at 11:32:23
In reply to I know it's the paxil...apathy, posted by Slinky on March 6, 2005, at 20:30:20
i am feeling the same way being back of Zoloft - aloft! or rather, aloof and sort of spacy. i think the description of it as 'crisis anesthetic' is a great one. i have had school and break-up induced anxiety and sadness and it has helped me power (or rather amble) through these difficult times. it may be a crutch, but my OCD loves these moments and it has been finding all sorts of objects and subjects for my mind to attach to and ruminate on. so bring on the apathy! it's better than misery.
craig
Posted by Bobby on March 7, 2005, at 13:58:18
In reply to I know it's the paxil...apathy, posted by Slinky on March 6, 2005, at 20:30:20
I like you anyway. Unconditionally. :)
Posted by Sarah T. on March 8, 2005, at 2:43:45
In reply to Re: I know it's the paxil...apathy » Slinky, posted by Ritch on March 7, 2005, at 9:52:19
Hi Ritch. You said you were on 1/2 mg of Celexa every other day. Did you really mean 1/2 mg? Is it possible you mean 1/2 milliliter? I'm trying to figure this out. Did the liquid medicine come with a dropper or were you instructed to take a teaspoonful or a half of teaspoon?
Posted by Ritch on March 8, 2005, at 8:50:00
In reply to Re: I know it's the paxil...apathy » Ritch, posted by Sarah T. on March 8, 2005, at 2:43:45
> Hi Ritch. You said you were on 1/2 mg of Celexa every other day. Did you really mean 1/2 mg? Is it possible you mean 1/2 milliliter? I'm trying to figure this out. Did the liquid medicine come with a dropper or were you instructed to take a teaspoonful or a half of teaspoon?
Yes, it's really 1/2mg every other day. The suspension is 2mg = 1ml I'm using a small syringe to measure it out. I'm super sensitive to it.
Posted by slinky on March 8, 2005, at 12:37:24
In reply to Re: I know it's the paxil...apathy » Slinky, posted by Bobby on March 7, 2005, at 13:58:18
Well.............
Saw pdoc today..he gave me tegretol only 400 mg daily..and maybe in the future respirin( can't spell)
He thinks i go psychotic?
I'm a wee bit hypo now-the nice hypo without irritation--so I'm not taking tegretol yet--it's my birthday tommorrow...30 bloody 8
Mitch I appriciate your help over the years--your a star! are you single?
Bobby--I'm dressing up all sexy :)
Posted by Ritch on March 8, 2005, at 13:08:24
In reply to Re: I know it's the paxil...apathy, posted by slinky on March 8, 2005, at 12:37:24
> Well.............
>
> Saw pdoc today..he gave me tegretol only 400 mg daily..and maybe in the future respirin( can't spell)
> He thinks i go psychotic?
> I'm a wee bit hypo now-the nice hypo without irritation--so I'm not taking tegretol yet--it's my birthday tommorrow...30 bloody 8
> Mitch I appriciate your help over the years--your a star! are you single?
> Bobby--I'm dressing up all sexy :)So, they are taking you *off* the Paxil entirely, and putting you on Tegretol? What about the Neurontin that you take, are you still going to be on it? Yes, single, and .. hey, we're both Pisces! :) Happy Birthday
Posted by Slinky on March 8, 2005, at 16:28:12
In reply to Re: I know it's the paxil...apathy » slinky, posted by Ritch on March 8, 2005, at 13:08:24
> So, they are taking you *off* the Paxil entirely, and putting you on Tegretol?
No I'm continuing the paxil..I'll think about coming off it later.
What about the Neurontin that you take, are you still going to be on it?
Yes still taking it..it helps so much.
Yes, single, and .. hey, we're both Pisces! :) Happy Birthday
Thanks Mitch...maybe we need a romance : )
Happy soon ( or gone ) birthday to you .
Posted by Ritch on March 8, 2005, at 23:03:16
In reply to Re: I know it's the paxil...apathy » Ritch, posted by Slinky on March 8, 2005, at 16:28:12
> > So, they are taking you *off* the Paxil entirely, and putting you on Tegretol?
>
> No I'm continuing the paxil..I'll think about coming off it later.
>
> What about the Neurontin that you take, are you still going to be on it?
>
> Yes still taking it..it helps so much.
>
> Yes, single, and .. hey, we're both Pisces! :) Happy Birthday
>
> Thanks Mitch...maybe we need a romance : )
> Happy soon ( or gone ) birthday to you .
>
>~~~~~transatlantic~~~~ tegretol~~~~~airlines~~~~
good luck-- Mitchie baby
Posted by Sarah T. on March 9, 2005, at 0:03:50
In reply to Re: I know it's the paxil...apathy » Sarah T., posted by Ritch on March 8, 2005, at 8:50:00
> > > Yes, it's really 1/2mg every other day. The suspension is 2mg = 1ml I'm using a small syringe to measure it out. I'm super sensitive to it.
I was also super sensitive to Celexa. Even 2.5 mg caused apathy and, more recently, severe depression and hopelessness; however, there were some vague benefits, but I just couldn't stay with it. I wonder whether it would have worked if I'd done what you're doing. I'm glad to hear you've figured out a regimen that works for you.
Posted by Ritch on March 9, 2005, at 10:07:54
In reply to Celexa mini-doses » Ritch, posted by Sarah T. on March 9, 2005, at 0:03:50
> > > > Yes, it's really 1/2mg every other day. The suspension is 2mg = 1ml I'm using a small syringe to measure it out. I'm super sensitive to it.
>
> I was also super sensitive to Celexa. Even 2.5 mg caused apathy and, more recently, severe depression and hopelessness; however, there were some vague benefits, but I just couldn't stay with it. I wonder whether it would have worked if I'd done what you're doing. I'm glad to hear you've figured out a regimen that works for you.
SSRI's generally have a very "flat" dose-response curve, so it isn't too surprising that small doses can work as well as much larger ones in many people (especially those with primary anxiety whose depression is milder). *If* it wasn't for the really bad gastro-intestinal s/e's of SSRI's (if they would just work in my head only), the more activating ones like Prozac or Zoloft at a very low dose would be my preferred ones to take. Celexa/Lexapro and Paxil (and to a lesser degree Luvox) tended to make me clearly apathetic. It would also be nice if they could make ultra low-dose *tablets* instead of the liquid that could be broken in 1/4 tablets. Say 5mg of Prozac that could be divided into 1.25mg quarters. I got by with Prozac 2.5mg every day for years and I had to make my own liquid with that. Liquid is a hassle.
Posted by Sarah T. on March 9, 2005, at 22:07:51
In reply to Re: Celexa mini-doses » Sarah T., posted by Ritch on March 9, 2005, at 10:07:54
> > > > > > It would also be nice if they could make ultra low-dose *tablets* instead of the liquid that could be broken in 1/4 tablets. Say 5mg of Prozac that could be divided into 1.25mg quarters. I got by with Prozac 2.5mg every day for years and I had to make my own liquid with that. Liquid is a hassle.
>
I couldn't agree with you more. Along the way, there have been several medicines I couldn't even try because the pills were available only in fairly large strengths. The most recent example of this is Cymbalta. At present, the lowest available strength is 20mg capsules! Twenty milligrams is MUCH too high for me (I tried it), and it's not even made in a tablet that can be cut. I don't like capsules. This is just plain stupidity on the part of the drug manufacturers. They might get more business if the meds were available in low strength tablets and in liquid solutions.
Posted by ed_uk on March 10, 2005, at 8:47:24
In reply to Re: Celexa mini-doses » Ritch, posted by Sarah T. on March 9, 2005, at 22:07:51
Hi,
>This is just plain stupidity on the part of the drug manufacturers.
They like to promote the myth that everyone can be treated with the same 'therapeutic dose' eg. fluoxetine 20mg etc. They use it as a marketing strategy, claiming that it is an advantage of their drug.
>I got by with Prozac 2.5mg every day for years and I had to make my own liquid with that. Liquid is a hassle.
Annoyingly, in the UK, Prozac only comes in two strengths of capsule, 20mg and 60mg. Prozac tablets are not available, at least we have the liquid.
>Along the way, there have been several medicines I couldn't even try because the pills were available only in fairly large strengths.
This can also make it very difficult to taper. I suppose if they made low-strength tablets for tapering, they would have to admit that some people have to taper in really small steps because the withdrawal symptoms can be nasty.
Ed.
Posted by Sarah T. on March 11, 2005, at 3:36:26
In reply to Re: Celexa mini-doses » Sarah T., posted by Ritch on March 9, 2005, at 10:07:54
Ritch, hi again. May I ask what other medications you are on besides Celexa? It sounds as if you have a good pdoc, or did you just work the mini-dosing out on your own? I wish I could find a really good psychopharmacologist. Sometimes I get so fed up!
Posted by Ritch on March 11, 2005, at 10:09:27
In reply to Re: Celexa mini-doses » Ritch, posted by Sarah T. on March 11, 2005, at 3:36:26
> Ritch, hi again. May I ask what other medications you are on besides Celexa? It sounds as if you have a good pdoc, or did you just work the mini-dosing out on your own? I wish I could find a really good psychopharmacologist. Sometimes I get so fed up!
I'm rapid-cycling bipolar with panic disorder and am on Depakote as an antimanic, with clonazepam for panic. The "mini-dosing" started with the first SSRI I took back in 1992 which was Prozac. I started off with 20mg every day as directed, but after about a week I couldn't stand the activation and insomnia and started halving doses until I arrived at 2.5mg/day which worked fairly well for several years. I only needed to push it up to 5mg for a few weeks during depressive episodes. So... all that got worked out on its own. I just reduced the med to make it more tolerable. I'm thinking of spreading the 1/2mg dose out to every three days and see what happens. Because if I could get off altogether, and just take my other two meds without having panic symptoms return -- *without* needing to increase the clonazepam.. I would prefer that if possible. But, if I just *have* to take a little SSRI, the micro-dosing method "works" for me.
Posted by empty inside on March 12, 2005, at 1:33:00
In reply to Re: Dosing » Sarah T., posted by ed_uk on March 10, 2005, at 8:47:24
> This can also make it very difficult to taper. I suppose if they made low-strength tablets for tapering, they would have to admit that some people have to taper in really small steps because the withdrawal symptoms can be nasty.
>
> Ed.I had that problem when I had to withdraw from Effexor XR, on more than one occasion. The first time a psychiatrist simply took me off of it, cold turkey, because all of a sudden he said that it "wasn't effective in treating anorexics" and that it "wasn't helping my depression" (WHICH IT WAS AND I HAD SAID SO!) this guy was unbelievably unprofessional - and this was while i was in a hospitalized setting so i couldn't even switch to a new doc since he was the only one. (needless to say tho I sighed out AMA). The second time I withdrawed from Effexor XR (both times I was withdrawing from 450mg and I am amazed and jealous of this thread and how small the dosages that have helped you guys -- for example I needed 140mg Prozac to notice any difference and am currently on 600mg wellbutrin) there wasn't really much I could do to help the horrible symptoms because they are capsules and i only had them in 150mg doses and my insurance wouldn't pay for a smaller dose until my supply ran out and i wanted to get off it very quickly to start another drug, which i can't even remember what now. does effexor even come in tablets?? another time on vacation i didn't have my effexor for 5 days and thought i felt like i was dying physically. that withdrawl is so awful! :(
Posted by ed_uk on March 12, 2005, at 13:56:46
In reply to Re: Dosing, posted by empty inside on March 12, 2005, at 1:33:00
Hello,
>there wasn't really much I could do to help the horrible symptoms because they are capsules and i only had them in 150mg doses.
Many people open the capsules and empty the contents out. You can remove a few of the granules and swallow the rest, this way you can decrease the dose gradually. Every few days/weeks you can decrease the dose by increasing the amount that you remove from the capsules.
>I am amazed and jealous of this thread and how small the dosages that have helped you guys.
I've also needed high doses of some drugs eg. Paxil 60mg and up to 60mg of Valium per day.
>does effexor even come in tablets??
It does in the UK! Don't know about anywhere else.
Ed.
Posted by Sarah T. on March 12, 2005, at 18:01:35
In reply to Re: Celexa mini-doses » Sarah T., posted by Ritch on March 11, 2005, at 10:09:27
Hi Ritch. It sounds as if you've got a good system, and you've gone about fine-tuning it really carefully. I'm not bipolar, but I was rx'd depakote about 10 years ago, allegedly for the purpose of "augmenting" my AD's. Instead of augmenting, however, depakote seemed to blunt the effects of the other drugs. I had a lot of difficulty with that medicine -- bruising and lots of sleeping. I wasn't on it very long. So, the Celexa functions primarily as an anxiolytic for you?
Posted by Slinky on March 12, 2005, at 18:47:21
In reply to Re: I know it's the paxil...apathy » Slinky, posted by Ritch on March 8, 2005, at 23:03:16
-Baby
> ~~~~~transatlantic~~~~ tegretol~~~~~airlines~~~~I've not climbed aboard yet..I'm in the waiting room looking at the sign -terminal .
I'm scared cause I've been feeling ok-ish and don't want my mood to change.
Do you ever see a med in your minds eye or emotionally as a color?
Sertraline was violet/pink
Effexor had 3 stripes..orange purple and grey
Depakote was brown
nefazodone- rusty heavy metal
Prozac - sharp blinding yellow with black stripes
Celexa -grey/pale blueCan't recall anymore..
..with a peck on your cheek..from Slinky---probably with synethesia
Posted by Ritch on March 13, 2005, at 12:27:01
In reply to Re: Celexa mini-doses » Ritch, posted by Sarah T. on March 12, 2005, at 18:01:35
> Hi Ritch. It sounds as if you've got a good system, and you've gone about fine-tuning it really carefully. I'm not bipolar, but I was rx'd depakote about 10 years ago, allegedly for the purpose of "augmenting" my AD's. Instead of augmenting, however, depakote seemed to blunt the effects of the other drugs. I had a lot of difficulty with that medicine -- bruising and lots of sleeping. I wasn't on it very long. So, the Celexa functions primarily as an anxiolytic for you?
Bingo. I can't seem to take "antidepressants" for depression anymore. If panic anxiety didn't start to return by going off the tiny dose of SSRI I take, I would be off of them entirely.
Posted by Ritch on March 13, 2005, at 12:35:06
In reply to Re: Mitchie- » Ritch, posted by Slinky on March 12, 2005, at 18:47:21
> -Baby
> > ~~~~~transatlantic~~~~ tegretol~~~~~airlines~~~~
>
> I've not climbed aboard yet..I'm in the waiting room looking at the sign -terminal .
> I'm scared cause I've been feeling ok-ish and don't want my mood to change.
> Do you ever see a med in your minds eye or emotionally as a color?
> Sertraline was violet/pink
> Effexor had 3 stripes..orange purple and grey
> Depakote was brown
> nefazodone- rusty heavy metal
> Prozac - sharp blinding yellow with black stripes
> Celexa -grey/pale blue
>
> Can't recall anymore..
>
> ..with a peck on your cheek..from Slinky---probably with synethesiaHey, I know what you mean. Wouldn't want to start something that might make me feel worse when I already feel pretty decent-can relate totally. I was on just Neurontin + Effexor + clonazepam for a year or so and didn't do all that bad. Sometimes it's tough to tell where things are about as good as they can get and just turn on the autopilot for a while. I like the description of the Prozac.. blinding yellow with black stripes! Pretty tiger. Here's a peck back at ya ^^ Mitch
Posted by Sarah T. on March 14, 2005, at 0:07:35
In reply to Re: Celexa mini-doses » Sarah T., posted by Ritch on March 13, 2005, at 12:27:01
Hi Ritch. I can't seem to tolerate any antidepressants anymore either, but for different reasons. Everything I've been able to try lately makes me feel worse. And then, as I mentioned the other day, there are all those meds that I can't try yet, because they are only available in strengths that incapacitate me. A few months ago, I tried the lowest strength of Cymbalta, a 20 mg capsule. I had the worst headache I've ever had in my life and was unable to move for about 12 hours. I lay flat on my back for the entire time. I couldn't even get up to go to the bathroom, I was so spaced out. If those nincompoops that make Cymbalta had made it in a 5 or 10 mg tablet, I could have cut the tablet in quarters and tried to titrate up from that. By the way, some years ago, I went through a bad stretch when I was having panic attacks. First, I was rx'd Xanax. A few months later, I switched to Klonopin, which I stayed on for a while and tapered off of slowly. While I was on Klonopin, I bought some self-help tapes from the MidWest Center for Stress and Anxiety that helped me deal with the panic and anxiety through behavioral modification and relaxation. I thought the tapes were very helpful. I think the director of the program is Lucinda Bassett.
Posted by ed_uk on March 15, 2005, at 8:04:45
In reply to Re: Mitchie- » Slinky, posted by Ritch on March 13, 2005, at 12:35:06
!!!psycho-babble romance???
Ed.
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