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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 23 of 23. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Hattree on January 29, 2002, at 14:33:04
Have taken 5mg dexedrine pills...thinking of asking doc for the longer-acting spansules. Any comments?
Posted by IsoM on January 29, 2002, at 15:43:48
In reply to Dex Spansules v. regular, posted by Hattree on January 29, 2002, at 14:33:04
If you need Dexedrine through an entire day, it's a good idea. My son prefers the shorter acting pills. If he doesn't need to be at his best for the afternoon, he'll skip the afternoon dosing to lessen the development of tolerance to the med. Perhaps a combo of the two can be prescribed. Then you can choose which one to take depending on the day's activities.
> Have taken 5mg dexedrine pills...thinking of asking doc for the longer-acting spansules. Any comments?
Posted by 3 Beer Effect on January 29, 2002, at 23:04:58
In reply to Dex Spansules v. regular, posted by Hattree on January 29, 2002, at 14:33:04
> Have taken 5mg dexedrine pills...thinking of asking doc for the longer-acting spansules. Any comments?
Sustained release versions of stimulants are generally inferior to immediate release versions because the peak blood level of the drug is much higher even at the same exact dosages. In other words, 15 mg of regular Dexedrine is much stronger than 15 mg of Dexedrine Spansule even though it does not last as long (although Dexedrine is very long acting for a stimulant- about 4 hours efficacy.) You could also try adderall, which although is about 1/2 as strong but is still a very strong & effective medicine, & lasts for six hours, & is available in 10,20 & 30 mg doses. Also, Dexedrine is available in a 10 mg immediate release pill but it is called Dextrostat.
I have been on Ritalin Sustained Release & it was very much inferior to regular Ritalin. You would probably be better off to take a morning & afternoon dose of Dexedrine, or switching to Adderall rather than taking just a morning dose of Dexedrine Spansule.
But on the other hand, a doctor is more likely to elevate a dose of the Spansules (or even Adderall) to an appropriate level because they are less prone to abuse, which with dexedrine being a schedule II amphetamine w/ a DEA order form required, is what doctors fear the most.
Posted by Hattree on January 30, 2002, at 8:36:16
In reply to Dexedrine spansules probably weaker effect, posted by 3 Beer Effect on January 29, 2002, at 23:04:58
Its a pecuilarity of mine that I can only take a stimulant once a day...the second dose of anything makes me turn anxious and depressed. Hence my hunt for a long-acting stimulant. Adderall doesn't do it for me, tho I am curious about the XR and also the sustained release Ritalins. Anyone know how they compare?
> > Have taken 5mg dexedrine pills...thinking of asking doc for the longer-acting spansules. Any comments?
>
> Sustained release versions of stimulants are generally inferior to immediate release versions because the peak blood level of the drug is much higher even at the same exact dosages. In other words, 15 mg of regular Dexedrine is much stronger than 15 mg of Dexedrine Spansule even though it does not last as long (although Dexedrine is very long acting for a stimulant- about 4 hours efficacy.) You could also try adderall, which although is about 1/2 as strong but is still a very strong & effective medicine, & lasts for six hours, & is available in 10,20 & 30 mg doses. Also, Dexedrine is available in a 10 mg immediate release pill but it is called Dextrostat.
>
> I have been on Ritalin Sustained Release & it was very much inferior to regular Ritalin. You would probably be better off to take a morning & afternoon dose of Dexedrine, or switching to Adderall rather than taking just a morning dose of Dexedrine Spansule.
>
> But on the other hand, a doctor is more likely to elevate a dose of the Spansules (or even Adderall) to an appropriate level because they are less prone to abuse, which with dexedrine being a schedule II amphetamine w/ a DEA order form required, is what doctors fear the most.
Posted by MB on January 31, 2002, at 2:39:14
In reply to Re: Dexedrine spansules probably weaker effect, posted by Hattree on January 30, 2002, at 8:36:16
What ever appened to that stuff? Preludin, I mean.
Posted by DiscoPuppy on June 20, 2002, at 11:12:21
In reply to Dex Spansules v. regular, posted by Hattree on January 29, 2002, at 14:33:04
I'd love to know the answer to this as well. Anyone has any comments?
Posted by winter on June 20, 2002, at 14:31:44
In reply to Re: Dex Spansules v. regular, posted by DiscoPuppy on June 20, 2002, at 11:12:21
Disco puppy, I am I the midst of figuring that out. I have in order in severity and importance; idiopathic hypersomnia, anxiety with some mild depression(versus depression with anxiety) and possibly ADD or ADHD. The hypersomnia far out weighs the other to. The ADD/ADHD would he higher if I had ever been actually diagnosed.
Last week my doc start me on 10 mg spansules, one in the morn. Did nothing execept I feel all the side effects so yesterday I added a five mg reg, to sort of give me an instant boost and then let the spansule take over for the rest of the day.
Again it didn't help. I felt eveything kinda helping beginng at around 2 lasting till about seven. This is when I took it at 9 in the moring. However I normally wake between 2 and 4 in the afternoon, and get natural energy around 7-8 in the evening. So part of it was my own evergy.
When I took the 10 span and the 5 reg at nine I ended up instantly falling back asleep untill about 11:30 till I was awoken by a sonic boom (literally). Which would have woken mw and kept me up even with out meds. It scared the living day lights out of me!. However I managed to stay awake till 12:30 but I was very sleepy starting at 11, eyes falling etc... But during my peak hours I was more focused and in control than I have ever been, I have no life because I sleep too much so all I do is stay home and when I am awake without meds I just sit around. During my peak though I cleaned my living room and kitchen, which normally would talk me several days mainly out of distraction; " Oh look at this magazine, hey where did this lipstick come from? Lets go read and put on lipstick..." Etc... However when I was just taking the 10 mg spansules woke up at nine my eyes were closing on me at eight in the evening, or I just took it and then kept on sleeping till I had to pee or something. When I was awake all I felt was the side effects.
Today how ever I two 10 mg spansule and two 5 mg regulars. Did not fall back asleep! Main problem with the sleep thing is that my body feels more awake than my head does it takes awhile for my head to catch up. Without meds after I wake it takes several hours for either my hear or my body to get any energy but often my body doesn't get any at all. So far it's only been a couple of hours since I have taken the combo of 10 spansule and 10 reg but I feel good.Right now I know that I am feeling more of the reg than the spansule and later on late this after noon and this evening it will be time for the spansule to reign. Honestly I think I prefer the regulars. When I was discussing everything with my doc I thought the spansules weren't the better option. I had a gut instinct. I still feel that way I think I need a good dose of the regs to get me up right away and a more conservative dose of the spansules to last me throughout the day. I know it is hard for me to be a judge since I am taking both at the same time, but I also think the regs have less severe side effects. I feel better earlier and later I feel worse. I seem to feel more of the bad side effects after the regs have worn off and its just the span. How I understand the release works on the span is the immediatly you get about 1.5 -2.5 mg from the span and then the remaining eight mg(from a 10) are dispersed for the next 10-14 hours. So maybe I feel bad later because I am feeling withdrawl after having 12 mg 10 hours earlier and now I am surviving on remainders, or becuase it is the spansule. I think the spans are best for probably people who can't remeber to take mutilple pills, kids in school, or people who don't want co-workers to see them popping speed midday!
The one thing that works well with both is the appetite supressant part. I get hungry, my stomach is growling but I don't want to eat. I used to eat cause I was bored, it was something extra to do. Now I really don't want to. My blood pressure is fine but I am slightly concerned about my pulse. The concern when taking amphetamines seems to be more towards the side effect of high blood pressure. Which I don't have.(112/72) However I am over weight and very out of shape so my pulse seems high. Im sorry I have a terribly habit of rambling on and giving too mcuh information. I am probably going to get kicked out for messages that are too long!!!
This probably didn't help you at all. Very few people take amphetamines for sleeping disorders. Narcolepsy is not that common and many doctor wouln't prescribe amphetamines for hypersomnia. I can't be of much help telling you about maitinence of ADD/ADHD symptoms since I am not officially diagnosed. Its more of a suspicion.
Winter
Posted by Darko on January 26, 2003, at 12:47:19
In reply to Re: Dex Spansules v. regular, posted by DiscoPuppy on June 20, 2002, at 11:12:21
> I'd love to know the answer to this as well. Anyone has any comments?
I originally was taking Dextrostat. I found myself feeling weird about 5 hours after I took one, and that would remind me that I needed another dose. I started building this association that I need a pill to get back "up". I had a constant reminder throughout the day that I was using drugs to control how I felt. I did not like the rapid up and then later a rapid down.
I'm trying the spansules now. Yes, they may be weaker mg to mg. To compensate, I convert using a formula such as: 1 mg Dextrostat = 3 mg Spansule. I take a Spansule in the morning and one after lunch. This seems to cover the day well. I do not feel the ups and downs. Because the spansules give a smooth, even coverage, it is easier for me to attribute the way I feel to other factors besides what I am taking.
Posted by DiscoPuppy on July 19, 2003, at 0:34:41
In reply to Re: Dex Spansules v. regular, posted by DiscoPuppy on June 20, 2002, at 11:12:21
Would be really interesting to see if anyone has any comments or personal experiences to this old thread. I've been keeping up on the Spansules for over a year now.
Thanks!
> I'd love to know the answer to this as well. Anyone has any comments?
Posted by utopizen on July 20, 2003, at 16:54:03
In reply to Re: Dex Spansules v. regular, posted by winter on June 20, 2002, at 14:31:44
Its more of a suspicion.
>
> WinterWell, I would go in for a sleep study (all night) followed by a Multiple Sleep Latency Test (where they objectively measure your fatigue during the day. It's exausting to have to spend so much time investing yourself into making the appts., waiting for these over-booked specialists to see you months later, having the study, having the follow-up, having another study, having the follow-up, and god forbid, your study is re-ordered and you have to repeat some of the process.
I first saw a neuro about it, who gave me a neurological exam and referred me to a pulmonary specialist. He then saw me and had me go to a sleep study at night, and I then saw him for a follow-up, and then was ordered an MSLT and had that done a week ago, and will be seeing my doc for a follow-up to that in a week. Hopefully I won't have to take it again, it's all day long. But I just want to get whatever they ask me to do out of the way now. I'm 19, and want this stuff worked on as much as possible this summer so I don't have to take days off this fall for these tests, and maybe I might actually be treated to.
I have Idiopathic Hypersomnia, probably. That's when the sleep study reports your sleeping is normal, but you're tired during the day.
Have you tried Provigil? A GP will give you samples, or your psychiatrist. It's not a stimulant, but it'll hopefully keep you up. The majority of people who take it don't have narcolepsy. That's why amphetamines are rarely prescribed. If amphetamines are prescribed, it's only after all these tests have ruled out so many things and confirmed other things (ruled out apnea, RLS, etc., ruled in sleepiness) so they can point to those tests if they DEA ever asks them.
Posted by utopizen on July 22, 2003, at 19:25:02
In reply to Re: Dex Spansules v. regular, posted by utopizen on July 20, 2003, at 16:54:03
I've tried IR-Dex generic before, and I thought it was "cute." I noticed increased heart palpatations, but I think those subsided after a few days. It's like a mild form of Desoxyn. I needed about 10mg 2-3x/day. I tried it for a month, then went back to 20mg of Adderall 2x/day, I think because I stupidly mentioned the heart palpatations to my doc. That was 7 months ago and two p-docs ago.
Well, I wanted to try Dex spansules, because Desoxyn was making me feel sad for two hours in the late evening as it wore off (I took 10mg 2x/day). They don't make sustained release Desoxyn, they use to, but stopped in 2000. A company bought it and will likely formulate one, but probably not for another few years at least.
Good news is it seems the FDA passes approvals for sustained modifications to approved drugs like crazy, which doesn't explain why Ambien SR won't be out until 2005. I wake up at 4, 5, or 6 and can't go back to sleep after taking Ambien at 11 or 12 at night.
Anyone, the spansules, which I took 10mg 3x/day today, one at 8am and one at noon, didn't seem to do a thing for me. Very weak.
If I needed 20mg 2x/day of immediate release Adderall, shouldn't I try at least 15mg 2x/day of spansules? Plus adding 5mg in the morning and afternoon of immediate release Dex.? My doc was trying to convince me I might be able to get away with 10mg 1x/day, but prescribed me 10mg 2x/day in case that didn't happen.
Today I actually took 10mg 3x/day, didn't feel much. Just glad I didn't get depressed like Desoxyn causes at the end of the day.
Posted by blondegirl47 on July 23, 2003, at 8:27:11
In reply to Dex Spansules are weak!, posted by utopizen on July 22, 2003, at 19:25:02
When I take my adderallxr, I have to take 5 mg of short acting with it or it doesn't feel like it kicks in.
Are you avoiding caffeine, absorbic acid(vitaminc) and other acidic stuff. Pop also lowers your absorption. If you are dehydrated your medication will ware off faster.
I was thinking of asking the doc for dexedrine spansules, now I'm not so sure. thanks
Blondegirl
Posted by DiscoPuppy on July 23, 2003, at 9:27:59
In reply to Dex Spansules are weak!, posted by utopizen on July 22, 2003, at 19:25:02
I have a script for 10mgs Dexedrine Spansules 3 times a day, but only end up taking it twice a day. My experience is that it works very inconsistently. Sometimes it won't kick in until noon when I take it at 7am. Other times, it starts working around 8-9am. Because I am a creature of habit (i.e., take my medications at the EXACT same time, exact same amount of water, make sure that my tummy is empty, etc), I just can't seem to understand why it is so inconsistent. To a degree, the Adderall was like this too.
So what is the difference between taking, for example, 40mgs Spansules all at once in the morning or 40mgs IR broken up into various times throughout the day? I would like to try the immediate release, but I don't quite want to seem like I am exhibiting drug-seeking behavior, since I had the doctor move me from Ritalin to Adderall to now Dexedrine.
And speaking of Desoxyn, I thought doctors no longer prescribe those. I realize they're still on the market, but even if you do get a doctor that will write you up a script for it, you'll have a heck of a time finding a pharmacy that will carry it. That's very interesting. Do you notice a difference between Desoxyn and Dexedrine?
Posted by blondegirl47 on July 23, 2003, at 9:32:24
In reply to Re: Dex Spansules are weak!, posted by DiscoPuppy on July 23, 2003, at 9:27:59
I take my first round of medication about 30 min to an hour before I get up. I drink 2 or 3 glasses of water with it and go back to bed. If I take it later, I am tempted to eat something to soon after taking it.
You might want to make note of how much water you are drinking on the days it doesn't work well. Not enough will make you tired.
Have you tried dextrostat? That worked well for me until it started upseting my tummy a little too much.
Blondegirl
Posted by utopizen on July 24, 2003, at 4:08:50
In reply to Re: Dex Spansules are weak! » DiscoPuppy, posted by blondegirl47 on July 23, 2003, at 9:32:24
Desoxyn is simply another amphetamine, like Dexedrine, with a methyl component added. It tends to result in fewer side-effects. I loved this, until after 4 mos. of use it made me feel on the down... Ritalin did this to me too after a few months. I don't have bipolar, but my mind defnititely grows more sensitive to stimulants over time. I could try immediate release ones, probably will, but right now I'd rather stick with something that will get me away from the risk of feeling on the down.
I think it's actually working, I'm taking 2 10mg spansules in the morning. I'll try 1 at morning and one at noon. To be honest, I'd likely need just one 10mg a day if I had a p-doc that gave me provigil-- but she wants me to try this alone first before giving me that, so I'll have to tough out my fatigue for another 2 weeks.
My only concern is the Multiple Sleep Latency Test required me to take a urine sample. I had taken Ambien the night before, and told them that, but I wonder if it can show up as if I just took it then? That's why they give the test, for people who are trying to fake a sleeping disorder for drugs. Geez, I hope I don't have to do any explaining during my follow-up appt... but you never know with these tests, right?
Posted by blondegirl47 on July 24, 2003, at 8:16:47
In reply to Re: Dex Spansules are weak!, posted by utopizen on July 24, 2003, at 4:08:50
I wasn't really impressed with provigil. It upset my stomach terribly and made me dizzy. I had to take it with food which delays the onset of it. It also made my sinus's drain. I had a stuffed up nose and soar throat most of the time I was on it. It also contributed to my sweet cravying. Now that I have it out of my system I seem to be able to just say no to sweets again. Good luck with your doc. Maybe you could talk him/her into letting you take a small amount of short acting dexedrine with it. Dextrostat seems to be the best, I didn't like the generic dexedrine.
Blondegirl
Posted by utopizen on July 24, 2003, at 14:16:13
In reply to Re: Dex Spansules are weak! » utopizen, posted by blondegirl47 on July 24, 2003, at 8:16:47
> Dextrostat seems to be the best, I didn't like the generic dexedrine.
> BlondegirlActually, Dextrostat generic is available from Barr. Barr also started making the generic dex spansules in Feb 2002, which I'm on now. So don't think you need "no substitute" just to get dextrostat, because the pharmacist should know Dextrostat generic and dexedrine generic are different things. How they differ, I have no idea, but Shire gives the impression that it's a higher tech immediate release formulation of dex by calling it "dextrostat". I only tried regular dexedrine generic before 6 months ago. Fun stuff, therapeutically speaking. I tried MEDLINE, and whenever I tried to learn about the differences between Dex-IR, Dextrostat and Dex Spansules, it just lumped all of them together as "d-amphetamine." I've yet to meet a doc who even feels comfortable with dosing spansules, much less dextrostat. Mine just trusts me at this point to tell her how much I need next time I see her. I'm thinking going for 30 Dextrostat or Dexedrine-IR and 30 15mg Dexedrine Spansules. Right now I take 2 10mg Dexedrine spansules.
I'd love to try Provigil, because it's $30 co-pay on my insurance, which to feel awake all day long is worth it, and the first month I can easily get samples. I just am so sick of using a stim to get me through times when I'm tired. Provigil might not work or give me some weird side effect, but typically I am rather resillent from side effects, and have only heard rare 'net reports of people being anxious. Nothing compared to amphetamines for that, so I have nothing to lose in that dept.
My doc asked me if I had any Desoxyn leftover, and I told her I had 10 5mg tabs. She said I could use those as needed if I needed to augument it with the Dex spansules. So far, so good- apparently the spansules create enough continously increasing dose of it so it smooths out potential for mood swings from Desoxyn at around 6-8 at night when I feel terribly down.
With spansules, I can take them at noon and still notice my heart beating faster than normal when I awaken the next morning (without any desoxyn the day before). It's suppose to last 12 hours, and I'm sure to some extent it does, but it does it in a very low-tech way.
It dumps half of it immediately, then the second half later on.
That's over-simplifying it, but basically Concerta's complexity puts it to shame. Spansules are liek a 40 or 50 year old technology Smith Kline made for dexedrine. Concerta has like 12 different mechanisms of releasing its contents, from increasing plasma concentrations at lunch time to multiple layers that sort of peel off at certain intervals.
I just wish they spent that technology on Dexedrine or Desoxyn, because when I tried generic ritalin it was soo boring. Shire sells Dextrostat, Barr sells Dextrostat Generic. Smith Kline sells IR Dex and Spanules, Barr sells generic spansules and generic IR Dex. I wish Shire took their technology they used to make Adderall XR into a Dexedrine long-acting. Why not?
I felt like a nerd, really. Anyone else feel this way? I switched to Adderall after trying Ritalin for a few months, and even though it made me anxious I was just happy it didn't make me feel nerdy. (Ritalin made me anxious too). Then I found Dex and Desoxyn to not be very anxiety-provoking at all.
Posted by MaTurtle on January 30, 2004, at 15:38:35
In reply to Dextrostat is sold as a generic, posted by utopizen on July 24, 2003, at 14:16:13
I switched from brand name dexedrine-ir tablets to generic dexedrine spansules (bottle says Dextroamphet sr). This geneic is made by BARR, I have to say I really like the generic dexedrine spansules (dextroamphet sr) alot more than the name brand immediate release, it lasts all day long for me, and is really smooth. In fact I can't even tell when they are kicking in or wearing off, I can just concentrate throughout the whole day by just taking 3 10mg spansules when I wake up and 3 more 10mg spansules between 12 and 2 in the afternoon. This is far more effective for me than the name brand dexedrine-ir 5mg tablets. So here is my case, I find that the generic dexedrine spansules (dextroamphet sr) are not inferior to the name brand for me. I hope this helps anyone who is thinking about just not using the generic, becasue the generic is much much cheaper and works wonderful for me. I payed $15 for name brand dexedrine-ir 5mg qty. 90 and I payed $5.35 for generic dexedrine spansules 10mg qty. 90(dextroamphet sr), which is a huge difference. Keep in mind though I have Blue-Cross Blue-Sheild Anthem insurance. My suggestion is to try the generic, it saved me $10 every time I get it filled.
Posted by blondegirl47 on January 30, 2004, at 16:00:40
In reply to Re: Dextrostat is sold as a generic, posted by MaTurtle on January 30, 2004, at 15:38:35
I agree generic dexedrine sr works just fine. My insurance won't pay for the name brand, but I like it better than name brand adderall xr.
Blondegirl
Posted by FrankieX on May 3, 2004, at 10:35:03
In reply to Dexedrine spansules probably weaker effect, posted by 3 Beer Effect on January 29, 2002, at 23:04:58
hello, i was on ritalin SR for 4 years up to 80mgs a day then the side effects were worse than the help they gave, my doctor tapered me off them and put me on 50mgs of short acting dexedrine 5mgs 6 months ago, 4 in the morning 3 at 2pm and 3 at 6pm. they worked great but i found myself wanting more sometimes, and some days when they didnt work so great and i was still tired. (im on them for severe ADD and narcolepsy). it is 11:30am today and i just took my first dose of dexadrine spansules ever, i was prescribed them and dosed them at 10am. i took as prescribed,3 15mg capsules in the morning, then i have 2-3 5mgs for the late evening if required...... so far all i can say is WOW the spansiules feel so much cleaner and smoother than the regulars, less gritty, and my shoulders arent tense and no headache.... nice and mild. ill post again in the evening to tell you what the comedown is like.
Posted by blondegirl47 on May 3, 2004, at 10:46:24
In reply to Re: Dexedrine spansules probably weaker effect, posted by FrankieX on May 3, 2004, at 10:32:40
Yes the spansules are smoother. Almost too smooth for me. I take 2 15mg and 12.5 adderall in the morning. I have found that by only taking adderall on Sundays that it helps with me not build up a tolerance to the dexedrine spansules. Although on Monday, I am a little speedy at first.
taking on an empty stomach works the best.
Blondegirl
Posted by FrankieX on May 3, 2004, at 20:24:22
In reply to Re: Dexedrine spansules probably weaker effect » FrankieX, posted by blondegirl47 on May 3, 2004, at 10:46:24
> Dexedrine feels a whole lot better to me too. I always found the Ritalin family more jagged and less motivating. I also found on the all-day dex I developed tolerance in jig time, so you might want to watch out for that. And I get real depressed when I stop it, though I have that problem to some degree with any pstim.
yes i found ritalin to be very "fuzzy and gritty feeling.....made me get interested in stupid routine things rather than spontanious outgoing activitys, ritalin is like the kids version of dexadrine.... well after my first day with the dexedrine spansules, i took 3 15mgs at 10 thismorning and went right to work, i honestly didnt even think about medications the whole day.. didnt need my asprin for my headaches, or one of my 20mg valium doses for my muscle spasms..... these things really do last 10 hrs
and seem to have less side effects. i just took an evening dose of 3 5mg short acting ones as prescribed, cause i feel myself gradually getting foggy now that its 11 hrs after my dose of the spansules.... i love these things they are a god send! but for you speed addicts who just like the dexedrine *rush* i dont think you will like the spansules, save ur money for the 5mg's :)
Posted by frankieX on May 16, 2005, at 14:58:56
In reply to Re: Dexedrine spansules probably weaker effect, posted by FrankieX on May 3, 2004, at 10:35:03
Hello, I posted on this thread about 1 year ago when my doctor switched me from ritalin sr 80mgs a day to dexadrine spansules 45mgs a day plus 3 5mgs in the afternoon. I have done alot in this last year, gone back to college with success, had my art displayed in several gallerys ect..... but now i have a new doctor, a psychiatrist, and he cannot believe the chemical cocktail i am on, dexadrine, valium, and nozinan as a tranq to put me out.... all i can say is dexedrine didnt let me see the forest for the trees, i made alot of mistakes along the way... got tied up doing small tasks while not seeing the big ones. My new doctor says there is no way i will be alive in 10 years if i keep taking Dexedrine, that scares me, but im already showing signs of near schizophrenia at times, i guess all i have to say is Dex is a wonderful crutch, but i cant be on it forever. check your health people, and look at where u are right now.
thx frankieX
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