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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 5 of 5. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by ramsea on December 1, 2003, at 5:11:23
Painkillers were in the news this week. Apparently as little as two doses of a painkiller a day can cause permanent kidney damage. I have been taking two tramadol, sometimes twice a day for a few months to help with very disabling social anxiety. The lithium is great for mood stablizing effects but doesn't help with the social anxiety except in a kind of secondary way. Because I feel better in myself I am more likely to feel okay about a few chores in town.
Generally I am doing more now than before lithium but it is still not anything close to my previous levels of functioning. I used to be highly socially skilled and even over-confident. To exist without any medicine now would be foolhardy but I do have strong fears about organ damage via medicine.
Anyone know anything about how long it would take to damage the kidneys (how many years or whatever)? Or any other info. Thanks in advance. ramsea
Posted by femlite on December 1, 2003, at 23:03:03
In reply to Re: Tramadol/lithium and Kidney Damage, posted by ramsea on December 1, 2003, at 5:11:23
The first question I have is what news source?
Secondly, I have been on moderate amounts of pain killers for almost 2 years now and have no evidence of damage.
I dont mean to be simplistic, but wouldnt large amounts of water be an important factor in good kidney function and flushing impurities. Worth a try any way. I hope you (we) get a good answer.
Tramadol is a pretty mild pain med. I personally wouldnt be that concerned. My guess is their (the news sources) emphasis was on the hard stuff.
let us know if you find out more.
best
> Painkillers were in the news this week. Apparently as little as two doses of a painkiller a day can cause permanent kidney damage. I have been taking two tramadol, sometimes twice a day for a few months to help with very disabling social anxiety. The lithium is great for mood stablizing effects but doesn't help with the social anxiety except in a kind of secondary way. Because I feel better in myself I am more likely to feel okay about a few chores in town.
>
> Generally I am doing more now than before lithium but it is still not anything close to my previous levels of functioning. I used to be highly socially skilled and even over-confident. To exist without any medicine now would be foolhardy but I do have strong fears about organ damage via medicine.
>
> Anyone know anything about how long it would take to damage the kidneys (how many years or whatever)? Or any other info. Thanks in advance. ramsea
Posted by ramsea on December 3, 2003, at 3:01:30
In reply to Re: Tramadol/lithium and Kidney Damage » ramsea, posted by femlite on December 1, 2003, at 23:03:03
The news source was a reputable UK newsagency on-line. Sorry but I don't have the info on the specific medical journal. I will do a search when I have the time. Due to my computer access to dr. bob is also limited so I don't get to reply as quickly as I would like.
The painkillers mentioned were ordinary, OTC medicines. I have been taking OTC pain relief for various ailments for many years. Migraines, tension headaches, social phobia, carpal tunnel...I have often not taken anything at all, but have periods of time when one ailment follows another. I have not been addicted however. I never have taken more than recommended and don't "have" to take anything and as I said frequently don't.
It's just that I have used the medicines for a long, long time. As I didn't receive psychiatric care for a long time, I was left to my own devices in getting on in the world. With my extremes of mood and anxiety off the charts, it's amazing that small amounts of codeine and tylenol products enabled me to live fairly normaly.
Sorry to go on. I really don't like taking medicines regularly. It scares me. Thanks for writing.
Posted by femlite on December 3, 2003, at 22:31:50
In reply to Re: Tramadol/lithium and Kidney Damage » femlite, posted by ramsea on December 3, 2003, at 3:01:30
Im gald you described OTC.
Here, (US) codine is not OTC. Wish that it were.
From what Ive read the tylenol is as likely if not more so to do damage to the kidneys.
Please dont feel you have to rationalize.
Im one of the many people on this website who decries the lack of acceptance of opiods as potential Anti depressants. I, like you, discovered that when I took them for a serious back problem. Coming off them, was a rude awakening, I realized my mood swings, within a week, returned. As I realized that getting a doctor to prescribe opiods for depression was impossible and there of course other issues to be concerned about, such as tolerance (building up a tolerance, and needing higher doses to achieve the same results) I threw in the towel and went the conventional route.
I understand your concerns and believe me, you are not the first person to say you feel normal on opiod medication.
Doing research is a good plan. But if truth be told (openly, that is) most the psychiatric drugs prescribed carry warnings about liver and kidney damage. The fact is, any medication is going to affect the liver and kidneys.
I really believe in water. Taking good supplements is also a way to balance the equation. EPA (fish oil) is a great way to protect the liver. Im not so up on supplements that speicificly help kidneys. A, B, C, and E are good for everything.
When my daughter was little an herbalist gave me a tincture (herbs suspended in alcohol) of dandelion for her kidneys.
Try posting a request for kidney supplements on the alternative board. There are some very well informed people there.
Just avoid the issue of codine unless you want to get into a debate about the value of taking it long term.
Your lucky you have acess.
But If you are concerened and feel it isnt the right aproach for you now, this is a good place to discuss that too. I still suffer from back pain and it is getting worse again, so Im glad I have my stash of hydrocodone. I prefer to not have the pain and not have to take the stuff. But given a choice between debilitating pain and freedom from pain, I cant worry about my kidneys at the moment.
I hope Ive helped
let me know how your doing
best
> The news source was a reputable UK newsagency on-line. Sorry but I don't have the info on the specific medical journal. I will do a search when I have the time. Due to my computer access to dr. bob is also limited so I don't get to reply as quickly as I would like.
>
> The painkillers mentioned were ordinary, OTC medicines. I have been taking OTC pain relief for various ailments for many years. Migraines, tension headaches, social phobia, carpal tunnel...I have often not taken anything at all, but have periods of time when one ailment follows another. I have not been addicted however. I never have taken more than recommended and don't "have" to take anything and as I said frequently don't.
>
> It's just that I have used the medicines for a long, long time. As I didn't receive psychiatric care for a long time, I was left to my own devices in getting on in the world. With my extremes of mood and anxiety off the charts, it's amazing that small amounts of codeine and tylenol products enabled me to live fairly normaly.
>
> Sorry to go on. I really don't like taking medicines regularly. It scares me. Thanks for writing.
Posted by ramsea on December 4, 2003, at 6:11:33
In reply to Re: Tramadol/lithium and Kidney Damage » ramsea, posted by femlite on December 3, 2003, at 22:31:50
This is the end of the thread.
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