![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 31 to 55 of 262. Go back in thread:
Posted by androog on January 22, 2003, at 13:54:59
In reply to Re: opiates and major depression » djmmm, posted by BrittPark on January 22, 2003, at 11:11:49
Exercise really does help. I've been a regular exerciser for about 17 years. I fitness-walk for at least 30 mins. a day 5 or more days of the week. 10 minutes or so after I excercise my mood goes up another notch.
Like Blah, when I was suicidal it was next to impossible to get myself to exercise. The few times I tried it, it didn't help.
Laying an exercise guilt trip on an already depressed individual only adds fuel to the fire and indicates a lack of understanding of the depths of depression on the part of whomever is laying on the guilt trip.
I recommend exercise, but don't find fault in a person who is unable to do it. After all, even the majority of Americans who are NOT depressed can't seem to bring themselves to exercise.
androog
Posted by jrbecker on January 22, 2003, at 23:01:37
In reply to ps, posted by androog on January 22, 2003, at 13:54:59
I've never responded well to most traditional ADs either. If you ever do find an opitate-friendly doc in the Chicagoland area, I would like to know about him/her as well.
Would appreciate it if you could drop me a line if that ever happens:
good luck with everything.
Posted by Blah on January 23, 2003, at 7:33:49
In reply to opiates and major depression » androog, posted by jrbecker on January 22, 2003, at 23:01:37
> I've never responded well to most traditional ADs either. If you ever do find an opitate-friendly doc in the Chicagoland area, I would like to know about him/her as well.
>
> Would appreciate it if you could drop me a line if that ever happens:
>
> jrbecker76@hotmail.com
>
If you could send me some names too that would be good. I am also in the chicago area. On the phone these new Pdocs seem opioid friendly, but my distrust of doctors has grown so strong I'm not counting on it. We'll find out today.You can send any info to:
Thanks
Blah
Posted by androog on January 23, 2003, at 11:11:34
In reply to Re: opiates and major depression, posted by Blah on January 23, 2003, at 7:33:49
Wow!
Thank you to those who have responded to my previous posts so positively. I kind of expected to be skinned alive for my views on opiates. Instead, people have been very supportive.
I thought I should mention that I have stopped looking for a sympathetic pdoc. I found one that'll write a prescription for tramadol (Ultram) and I'm just going to stick with him. Oddly enough, I decided to stay with him because he basically stays out of my way and doesn't try to anything new. At this point, his only function as far as I'm concerned is as a prescription-writer. After many years of trying different antidepressants and ECT, I realized I was pouring a lot of money into a pretty inaffective sries of treatments and getting nowhere but broke. That's why I have taken my treatment into my own hands.
For better or worse, I'm going to do what it takes to keep myself off the road to suicide.
And now the fine print:
Please remember that I'm not qualified to dispense medical advice. I'm only saying what has worked for me and am not trying to convince anyone to take tramadol or opiates. We all respond differently to medications. Ultram mixed with standard antidepressants can have serious consequences, from what I've read. I took a chance and it worked for me. But what works for me could possibly kill someone else.androog
Posted by BrittPark on January 23, 2003, at 11:28:55
In reply to Re: opiates and major depression, posted by androog on January 23, 2003, at 11:11:34
The most dangerous outcome from tramadol use is seizures. In general tramadol seems to increase the likelihood of seizures 2-6 fold. That may sound like a lot but remember that original likelihood of seizures is quite low. Those who are taking certain antidepressants (TCAs eg) that lower the seizure threshold are somewhat more at risk but I haven't been able to find a number. I would advise caution.
Here are some Medline Abstracts
Tramadol and seizures: a surveillance study in a managed care population.
Gardner JS, Blough D, Drinkard CR, Shatin D, Anderson G, Graham D, Alderfer R.
Department of Pharmacy, University of Washington, Seattle 98195, USA.
STUDY OBJECTIVE: To investigate the occurrence of tramadol-associated seizures. DESIGN: Retrospective cohort and case-control studies. SETTING: UnitedHealth Group-affiliated independent practice model health plans, from different regions of the United States, contracting with large networks of physicians. INTERVENTION: Analysis of administrative data from a large U.S. managed care population. PATIENTS: A cohort of 9218 adult tramadol users and 37,232 concurrent nonusers. MEASUREMENTS AND MAIN RESULTS: Fewer than 1% of users (80) had a presumed incident seizure claim after the first tramadol prescription. Risk of seizure claim was increased 2- to 6-fold among users adjusted for selected comorbidities and concomitant drugs. Risk was highest among those aged 25-54 years, those with more than four tramadol prescriptions, and those with history of alcohol abuse, stroke, or head injury. A case-control study among users was conducted to validate incident seizure outcomes from medical records. Only eight cases were confirmed, and all had cofactors associated with increased seizure risk. CONCLUSION: In a general population, risk of seizure may be associated with long-term therapy with tramadol or the presence of cofactors, or confined to a small sensitive population subset.
Incidence of first-time idiopathic seizures in users of tramadol.Gasse C, Derby L, Vasilakis-Scaramozza C, Jick H.
Department of Clinical Pharmacology and Pharmacoepidemiology, University Hospital Heidelberg, Germany.
STUDY OBJECTIVE: To assess the risk of idiopathic incident seizures among patients who ever took tramadol. DESIGN: Nested case-control design. SETTING: General Practice Research Database from November 1996-August 1998. PATIENTS: Eleven thousand three hundred eighty-three patients. INTERVENTION: Comparison of risks of idiopathic incident seizures during exposed and unexposed times among patients who had ever taken tramadol and other analgesics with 90-day follow-up. MEASUREMENTS AND MAIN RESULTS: Among the 11,383 subjects we identified 21 cases of idiopathic seizures, 10 of which were categorized as definite cases and 11 categorized as possible cases. Three patients were exposed to tramadol alone in the previous 90 days, 10 to opiates, three to both tramadol and opiates, one to other analgesics, and four to no analgesics. CONCLUSION: The risk of idiopathic seizures was similarly elevated in each analgesic exposure category compared with nonusers, suggesting that the risk for patients taking tramadol was not increased compared with other analgesics.
Whatever it takes,
Britt
Posted by androog on January 23, 2003, at 14:43:25
In reply to Re: opiates and major depression » androog, posted by BrittPark on January 23, 2003, at 11:28:55
Hi Britt,
Thank you so much for the unbiased scientific info on tramadol. I've been trying to find out more about it, but I have no science background and haven't met with much success.
I'd read that there was an increased risk of seizures in people who take the stuff, but that was about it.
This info enables me, and other people in the same boat, to make a more informed decision regarding its use.
I've had 17 ETC-induced seizures, but I still know next to nothing about seizures.What exactly occurs when one has a grand mal seizure? Is there brain damage? Does it always interefere with memory?
Thanks
androog
Posted by Blah on January 23, 2003, at 22:40:06
In reply to Re: opiates and major depression, posted by androog on January 23, 2003, at 14:43:25
Hi Androog and all:
I saw the mood disorder specialist today, and even though the first visit is $345 not much happened. He said he wouldn't give me an opioid analgesic untill I tried some mood stabalizers and antipsycotics. I'm willing to do that, but he was not willing to say how many I had to try before we could rule them out and move on to opiates. It would be great if one of them worked, but after all the "wonder drugs" I tried just to have them make me worse I don't have a lot of trust left.
What's worse is he wants me to go into the hospital for a month or more so I can try more more quickly, but if I do that he still won't commit to a time when I could switch to an opioid if they didn't work. I can't try every mood stabalizer and antipsycotic. Once you try 2 or 3 drugs from a certain school you cancel that school out; to try them all is a waste of time and abuse of the body. I'm not sure what to do I'd go in the hospital if I knew that he'd rx opioids if nothing worked but he's making it clear he'll wait as long as he can to do that, and my mental and ecconomic situation requires me to get better now. In a few years I won't get supplemental money from my mother, and Bush could easily kill SSI (social security disability) even sooner. Emotionaly I have no hope left, and today I thought about suicide maybe more serious than I ever have. I have no hope or passion left, for anything. Yet this doctor still won't give me some kind of assurance that opioids could be used soon if nothing works. I'm not sure what to do.ANDROOG, I may need to do the internet ordering. xxx Is it better to buy a cheap membership to one of those low price ones, or buy from the ones with regular prices but with no membership. xxx Also, can you get arrested for doing this , should I not use my credit card, and is it safe to have it shipped to my home.
Thanks
Blah
Posted by BrittPark on January 24, 2003, at 11:31:42
In reply to Re: opiates and major depression, posted by androog on January 23, 2003, at 14:43:25
Seizures are sudden firings of a large number of neurons in the brain. They manifest themselve in many ways: from a short blackout, to a grand mal seizure in which all the muscles in the body tense and untense. Most seizures are not dangerous but some can cause breathing to stop and lead to death. The other danger of course is that seizures can occur at dangerous moments, such as driving a car.
Perhaps someone with more expertise could comment further.
Cheers,
Britt
Posted by juanantoniod on January 24, 2003, at 12:19:15
In reply to Re: opiates and major depression, posted by Blah on January 23, 2003, at 22:40:06
Hi, Blah
I completely relate to your posting about losing hope and going for suicide as an option. I'm on my last trial of medications before probably moving on to ECT, then if that does not work, strongly considering voluntary euthanasia.
I'm not trying to be all cliche and say that things could get better overnight with new treatments, medications and such. However, the release of Strattera is a hope in that direction and then the eventual release of Lilly's new AD, Cymbalta (duloxetine) could be helpful as well.
And, as you said, you haven't tried opiates.
So, please understand that I'm not saying hang on at all costs, but please at least exhaust all options before you go to the final one. Believe me, I know how difficult that sounds, but I know how you feel.
Take care,
Antonio
> Hi Androog and all:
>
> I saw the mood disorder specialist today, and even though the first visit is $345 not much happened. He said he wouldn't give me an opioid analgesic untill I tried some mood stabalizers and antipsycotics. I'm willing to do that, but he was not willing to say how many I had to try before we could rule them out and move on to opiates. It would be great if one of them worked, but after all the "wonder drugs" I tried just to have them make me worse I don't have a lot of trust left.
>
> What's worse is he wants me to go into the hospital for a month or more so I can try more more quickly, but if I do that he still won't commit to a time when I could switch to an opioid if they didn't work. I can't try every mood stabalizer and antipsycotic. Once you try 2 or 3 drugs from a certain school you cancel that school out; to try them all is a waste of time and abuse of the body. I'm not sure what to do I'd go in the hospital if I knew that he'd rx opioids if nothing worked but he's making it clear he'll wait as long as he can to do that, and my mental and ecconomic situation requires me to get better now. In a few years I won't get supplemental money from my mother, and Bush could easily kill SSI (social security disability) even sooner. Emotionaly I have no hope left, and today I thought about suicide maybe more serious than I ever have. I have no hope or passion left, for anything. Yet this doctor still won't give me some kind of assurance that opioids could be used soon if nothing works. I'm not sure what to do.
>
> ANDROOG, I may need to do the internet ordering. What are the best companies to use. Is it better to buy a cheap membership to one of those low price ones, or buy from the ones with regular prices but with no membership. Do you know of any sites still in operation that are good. Please either email this info to me at the address in my last post, or put it on the board. Also, can you get arrested for doing this , should I not use my credit card, and is it safe to have it shipped to my home.
>
> Thanks
> Blah
Posted by androog on January 24, 2003, at 13:33:00
In reply to Re: opiates and major depression, posted by Blah on January 23, 2003, at 22:40:06
Hi Blah,
I'm sorry to hear about your experience with the pdoc. It sounds to me like the old carrot-on- a -stick routine. There seems to be an endless loop of drug combinations that can be tried on a person with refractory depression.
I don't know if you're being strung along or if your new pdoc really intends to try opiates or tramadol. I was lucky enough to find a legit doc to write my scripts, but it took some pushing on my part -- something that doesn't come easily when you're seriously depressed.
There are sites on the internet where it appears you can get tramadol legally with the benefit of an online consultation. I say "appears to be legal" because I'm not a lawyer and can't state for a fact that it is legal. A simple search on the internet took me to one such site:
xxx
Once again, I have to say that I'm not a doctor and can't make any recommendations to you regarding your decision to try to find or use tramadol. I say this because I don't in any way want to be construed as offering medical advice or trying to prescribe medicine. I think you can understand my dilemma.
The suggestion that you go into the hospital is a little scary to me. Having been in the cuckoo's nest myself, I think the whole thing was simply aimed at protecting me from myself. It was my experience that they couldn't do much more for me in the hospital than they could do on an outpatient basis. Even the ECT, which was started in the hospital, was completed on an outpatient basis. The big difference to me is that the hospital stay was VERY expensive. Also, from what little I can remember and what I'm told by my wife, I was treated like an inmate. Cigarettes (I've since quit smoking. Yea!) were used as rewards and my wife was not allowed to visit me unless she attended certain classes. Try pulling that on someone who is hospitalized for, say, diabetes.
I truly wish I could be of more help to you. I would love to be able to write a prescription for you, if only to give you temporary relief -- a "breather". What you are experiencing is more awful than most people could ever understand, and is something nobody should be forced to endure. It's just plain cruel to allow anyone to exist in your state without trying something that might possibly bring immediate relief.
Please don't do anything rash. Pursue all your options. I'm convinced that each one of us will respond to something, it's just a matter of finding what that something is.
androog
Posted by ShelliR on January 24, 2003, at 19:46:03
In reply to Re: opiates and major depression, posted by Blah on January 23, 2003, at 22:40:06
It's an amazing thing to me how seldom it is that doctors can really relate to true suicidal urges, and how horribly painful depression can be, both physically as well as psychologically. Suicide is obviously not just a threat, and a week of hospitalization (usually the commitment for suicidal ideation) is not going to do very much to change such painful, long-term miswiring.
I recently seen several articles talking about the interaction between pain and depression. If there is any physical aspects to your depression/pain, I would go to a pain specialist before ordering opiates off the internet.
I was able to be honest with my pain doctor, saying that I was very depressed but also I had unrelenting pain in my chest. And I didn't know where one started and the other ended. My honesty with psychiatrists mostly got me labeled a drug addict, although one psychiatrist put me on oxycontin which was not a good idea either. If I was trying now to save my life, I'd lobby for buprenorphine; it just came out in sublingual form. It's purpose is to treat addiction, much like methadone, only buprenorphine is allowed to be prescribed in a doctor's office and is a partial opiate. I know the liquid form (for IM use) is also legally prescribed for pain; I'm not sure if the new sublingual release can be prescribed for pain yet. Buprenorphine can also be habituating, but less likely, since it has both agonist and antagonist properties.
It's hard for me to believe that after trying over 20 combinations of drugs to try to relieve my depression, doctors were way more worried about me becoming an addict than me being dead. The last time I was put in the hospital, taken off of opiates and pumped with too much effexor for my body, I got out and tried to kill myself. (Seriously tried). That was the last time I allowed byself to believe it was better to be dead than to be addicted (habituated) to opiates.
I think it is a very serious decision to take opiates for depression, but it's hard for me to believe that it was so hard for me to choose opiates over death because of the total lack of help and total lack of support I received in the psychiatric community for treatment resistent depression. I am also still looking for other options so I won't have to be dependent on opiates for the rest of my life, if there is another equally effective and less controversial alternative. I have become habituated to a pretty large dose of methadone and don't know when or if this dose will lose it's effectiveness. Presently, I am also being treated by a homeopathic MD.
"Be careful out there"
Shelli
Posted by androog on January 25, 2003, at 0:08:59
In reply to Re: opiates and major depression » Blah, posted by ShelliR on January 24, 2003, at 19:46:03
The buprenorphine that Shelli suggests is a great idea. It has a "ceiling" that only allows it to take you so high, unlike the heavier stuff like morphine. Personally, I don't really understand what the problem is with feeling good, but I think docs are more likely to prescribe if they don't think you're having too much fun.
When I was at the lowest point of my depression I kept having this fantasy of what I called "The Hat". You stick it on your shrink and he/she feels exactly what you feel. You stick it on their head with epoxy and tell em you'll be back in three weeks to chip it off. Then you sit back and see what comes off their prescription pad. I'll bet it wouldn't be Prozac.
Blah and Antonio, I'm really getting scared with this talk of suicide. Please get on the phone, or have somebody else get on the phone, and call every shrink, pain specialist or witch doctor in the book until you find someone who will at least try you on some sort of painkiller. It doesn't have to be a shrink; dentist's have the authority to write these prescriptions, too -- all it takes is a bad toothache on the weekend. I hate to suggest that, but I think you need relief soon.
When I first discovered painkillers worked on my depression it gave me a lot of hope and helped to keep me going. Even though I had nobody at that time to write a prescription for the stuff, it helped just finally knowing there was something that worked. I think that same kind of hope would help you a lot.
Get creative in your quest for help and don't feel all alone -- there are plenty of us out here who share your experience and who really mean it when we say "I know how you feel".
androog
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 25, 2003, at 10:00:23
In reply to Re: opiates and major depression, posted by androog on January 24, 2003, at 13:33:00
> There are sites on the internet where it appears you can get tramadol legally with the benefit of an online consultation. I say "appears to be legal" because I'm not a lawyer and can't state for a fact that it is legal. A simple search on the internet took me to one such site:
>
> xxxI know you're trying to help, but I think it's best if the physician is licensed in the state of the patient.
Bob
PS: Follow-ups regarding posting policies should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration, thanks.
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 25, 2003, at 11:17:59
In reply to Re: opiates and major depression, posted by Blah on January 23, 2003, at 22:40:06
> I may need to do the internet ordering. xxx Is it better to buy a cheap membership to one of those low price ones, or buy from the ones with regular prices but with no membership. xxx Also, can you get arrested for doing this , should I not use my credit card, and is it safe to have it shipped to my home.
I know you may think you don't have any other options, and the above general questions are fine, but I'd rather specific information that could be used to import prescription medication without a prescription not be exchanged on this site:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#illegal
Thanks,
Bob
PS: Follow-ups regarding posting policies should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. Here's a link:
Posted by androog on January 25, 2003, at 11:53:22
In reply to Re: licensed physicians » androog, posted by Dr. Bob on January 25, 2003, at 10:00:23
Sorry. This site is a great outlet for people like us and I don't mean to abuse it.
androog
Posted by Mattkit on January 25, 2003, at 13:42:43
In reply to Re: opiates and major depression, posted by androog on January 25, 2003, at 0:08:59
Hi,
I just wanted to relay my thought on the opiate subject too. I also tried many many different antidepressents, many that have some serious side effects on liver like effexor, etc. Nothing ever worked for me also. I finally quit the search and
ended just living miserably for quite some time now. In the past when I ever hurt something like my back once in an accident, my ankle, just basic
strains, and when I was prescribed codeine, or
other opiate drugs for pain, I noticed something,
I would with one pill, have an interest for life
again. This past week on thurs 1/23/03 I had my wisdom teeth removed. They prescribed 15 pills of
Vicoprofin for pain (another opiate), I have taken about 2 per day now and bingo I have a real interest in living again. Since thursday I have
cleaned my house for the first time in months,
I am going out to excercise and my mind has totally changed from depression. I can see I need to find a psychiatrist that is willing to prescribe opiates for depression (non abusing).
We are in such a bullshit world as far as all these docs only prescribing all this anti depresent drugs like prozac, zoloft, etc cause the
pharmacuetical companies pay them to prescribe them. Not to say they havent helped some but really we are all kind of Guinea Pigs as far as the long term goes with these drugs. Oh and they say but "their non addictive" (even though you may hav to tke them forever???). I want something
that works and am just sick of all the bull in
the psyco world. Also wanted to say that I have
taken Ultra tremedol and have had the same interest in life as opiates. Ultram is not an opiate but works the same way as them so its worth giving a try. I also saw the sites where you can get the tremedol so if anyone has success
with this please let me know. Thanks alot Matt
Posted by Mattkit on January 25, 2003, at 13:59:28
In reply to Re: medication without a prescription » Blah, posted by Dr. Bob on January 25, 2003, at 11:17:59
Dr Bob,
What are your thoughts on using opiates for depresion?
I have had some really bad experiences with
psychiatrists and psychotherapists (never discussing the use of opiates with them) but
with being prescribed other drugs where if I wasnt on top of my own medical history and we all know when your depressed its easy to just go along
with the docs, I could have had some serious
liver problems, some docs prescribe stuff and dont even know your medical history. They look at
opiates as "taboo", almost like they just want you
to come back and back for that weekly money they
get from you while putting you on stuff that takes months to see if it works. I think this country needs to do a complete change on psychiatry and get away from the pharmacuetical companies and what their coming out with next.
I agree with some to take it into their own hands
to find their own solution. Especially after the experience I have had in the psychiatric world.
Wasting thousands of dollars and, mostly, time of
MY life.
Posted by androog on January 25, 2003, at 15:07:34
In reply to Re: medication without a prescription, posted by Mattkit on January 25, 2003, at 13:59:28
Hi all,
Does anyone know what the statistics are regarding the success rate of ALL the antidepressants as a group? By this I mean, if you had 100 people who suffered from major depression and treated them all with ALL the drugs marketed as antidepressants, what percentage of the group would show significant improvement?
I'd also like to know, roughly, how many people who suffer from refractory major depression respond signigicantly to opiates.
I keep reading all of this good stuff about opiates, but surely there are people who have had no luck with, or even deteriorated from, opiates in the treatment of their depression.
androog
Posted by BrittPark on January 25, 2003, at 15:57:49
In reply to Re: medication without a prescription, posted by androog on January 25, 2003, at 15:07:34
> Does anyone know what the statistics are regarding the success rate of ALL the antidepressants as a group? By this I mean, if you had 100 people who suffered from major depression and treated them all with ALL the drugs marketed as antidepressants, what percentage of the group would show significant improvement?
This is a great question. I don't know of any study that speaks to it. My guess is that given enough time and drug trials, the response rate is 80-90%. I base this on what my psychiatrist, a superb psychopharmacologist, has told me. In his practice he's never, given enough time, not successfully treated a patient. That leaves out the people who leave his care. Now he may have been saying that to make me feel more hopeful at the time, but given his character I don't think so.
>
> I'd also like to know, roughly, how many people who suffer from refractory major depression respond signigicantly to opiates.Another great question. I've never found a study even remotely likely to answer it. My guess is that a majority of people would respond well to opioids, based on the number of people I know who have found opioids pleasurable. This begs another question: what percentage of people get a continued AD effect from opioids? I would guess that the number is small because most people develop tolerance. I wish that the whole realm of opioids and psychiatry would get federal funding for research, but don't think I'll see it in my lifetime. The principle in psychiatric research seems to be that anything that makes "normal" people feel better cannot be considered.
>
> I keep reading all of this good stuff about opiates, but surely there are people who have had no luck with, or even deteriorated from, opiates in the treatment of their depression.I'm sure there are many who've not been helped and even hurt by opioids. I'm not, of course, including the large number of people damaged by illicit opioids.
>
> androog
Britt
Posted by Blah on January 25, 2003, at 17:32:02
In reply to Re: opiates and major depression » Blah, posted by ShelliR on January 24, 2003, at 19:46:03
When you say pain doctor what kind of doctor do you mean, an orthopiedist? I probably spelled that wrong. What I'm asking is what would I look under in the yellow pages?
Thanks
> It's an amazing thing to me how seldom it is that doctors can really relate to true suicidal urges, and how horribly painful depression can be, both physically as well as psychologically. Suicide is obviously not just a threat, and a week of hospitalization (usually the commitment for suicidal ideation) is not going to do very much to change such painful, long-term miswiring.
>
> I recently seen several articles talking about the interaction between pain and depression. If there is any physical aspects to your depression/pain, I would go to a pain specialist before ordering opiates off the internet.
>
> I was able to be honest with my pain doctor, saying that I was very depressed but also I had unrelenting pain in my chest. And I didn't know where one started and the other ended. My honesty with psychiatrists mostly got me labeled a drug addict, although one psychiatrist put me on oxycontin which was not a good idea either. If I was trying now to save my life, I'd lobby for buprenorphine; it just came out in sublingual form. It's purpose is to treat addiction, much like methadone, only buprenorphine is allowed to be prescribed in a doctor's office and is a partial opiate. I know the liquid form (for IM use) is also legally prescribed for pain; I'm not sure if the new sublingual release can be prescribed for pain yet. Buprenorphine can also be habituating, but less likely, since it has both agonist and antagonist properties.
>
> It's hard for me to believe that after trying over 20 combinations of drugs to try to relieve my depression, doctors were way more worried about me becoming an addict than me being dead. The last time I was put in the hospital, taken off of opiates and pumped with too much effexor for my body, I got out and tried to kill myself. (Seriously tried). That was the last time I allowed byself to believe it was better to be dead than to be addicted (habituated) to opiates.
>
> I think it is a very serious decision to take opiates for depression, but it's hard for me to believe that it was so hard for me to choose opiates over death because of the total lack of help and total lack of support I received in the psychiatric community for treatment resistent depression. I am also still looking for other options so I won't have to be dependent on opiates for the rest of my life, if there is another equally effective and less controversial alternative. I have become habituated to a pretty large dose of methadone and don't know when or if this dose will lose it's effectiveness. Presently, I am also being treated by a homeopathic MD.
>
> "Be careful out there"
>
> Shelli
Posted by Mattkit on January 25, 2003, at 19:15:02
In reply to Re: opiates and major depression, posted by Blah on January 25, 2003, at 17:32:02
I sure would like to know if it is possible to take opiates in a controlled manner. As with any drugs or alcohol when one is out of control its a
problem. I know alot of people who have a couple
of drinks of wine thru the day and it is not a problem. I wish I could try doing this but with opiates because it seems to me that when they are in my system I have come "up" to the level of how
"normal" people feel. I actually feel normal for once.
Posted by ShelliR on January 25, 2003, at 19:25:40
In reply to Re: opiates and major depression, posted by Blah on January 25, 2003, at 17:32:02
>When you say pain doctor what kind of doctor do you mean, an orthopiedist? I probably spelled that wrong. What I'm asking is what would
I look under in the yellow pages?<My doctor is listed under physical medicine. I was referred to him years ago for a misdiagnosed stomach spasm years ago and more recently for the chest pain. Many of the doctors in the pain field also have a background in anesthesiology.
I just did a yahoo yellow pages search, put in physicians and pain and most specialists were listed either under pain and rehabilitation or pain management. I think I'd go for pain management out of the two, or else get a referral from your internist or primary physician.
Posted by ShelliR on January 25, 2003, at 20:36:39
In reply to Re: opiates and major depression, posted by Blah on January 25, 2003, at 17:32:02
One more thing:
My pain doc wouldn't treat me unless I also was being treated by a psychiatrist. Since my pdoc wouldn't treat me if I was on opiates, I changed pdocs to one that the pain guy recommended. I like the new pdoc; he won't prescribe opiates, but he accepts that I am taking them as part of my treatment. I am exploring other options with him and with my homeopathic doctor.
Posted by bee happy on January 26, 2003, at 21:44:50
In reply to Re: opiates and major depression » Blah, posted by ShelliR on January 25, 2003, at 20:36:39
I have been treated for depression with Buprenorphine for the last 6 months and I knew the first day that it worked for me. If you have a compassionate family doctor who knows you well you might want to ask him or her to try it just for a day or two...to see if it works for you. It is not a triplicate. This drug was studied at Harvard.Find the study on the internet and show your doctor.
Posted by Peter S. on January 26, 2003, at 22:24:18
In reply to Re: opiates and major depression, posted by bee happy on January 26, 2003, at 21:44:50
Hi bee,
Can you say a little more about your buprenorphine experience. How much do you take? HOw often? How do you take it- sublingually? Any side effects?
Thanks!
Petrer
> I have been treated for depression with Buprenorphine for the last 6 months and I knew the first day that it worked for me. If you have a compassionate family doctor who knows you well you might want to ask him or her to try it just for a day or two...to see if it works for you. It is not a triplicate. This drug was studied at Harvard.Find the study on the internet and show your doctor.
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