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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 47. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by gabbi on August 6, 2002, at 20:13:49
And unfortunately my desperation is overwhelming what is left of my good sense.
I saw an add for a 'natural' anti-depressant cure-all that doesn't include any of the typical natural alternatives
ie' St. Johns Wort, tryptophan. Its called serenity and its advertised on www.abrakadabrabotanicals.com. Could somebody tell me if they've tried it, or tell me its useless please before I hand over money for what is undoubtedly a nasty trick. Thanks
Posted by Squiggles on August 6, 2002, at 20:41:26
In reply to I'm getting really desperate, posted by gabbi on August 6, 2002, at 20:13:49
I don't trust any "health/natural" remedies
sold over the counter - basically because they
have not been tested, passed, and the dosage
is fast and loose; however, chacun a son gout:Here is one article i thought noteworthy:
http://www.cc.nih.gov/ccc/aboutcc/media_resources/news_features/wortfinal.html
Squiggles
Posted by IsoM on August 7, 2002, at 0:51:37
In reply to I'm getting really desperate, posted by gabbi on August 6, 2002, at 20:13:49
Can't you feel the prickling up & down your spine when you read the blurb that's given over its many benefits? There's nothing factual there, nothing that would nail them down for false advertising. The wording is cleverly crafted to sound good - very good, but without once coming out & making outright claims that it'll work for you. That's an obvious sign that it's hype. I recognise some of the botanical names of the plants used & others are the Oriental names. Again, trying to lend more credibility to something that's hype. Save your money.
Posted by jay on August 7, 2002, at 4:57:59
In reply to I'm getting really desperate, posted by gabbi on August 6, 2002, at 20:13:49
Gabbi:You are in Canada like me, right? We likely have similar med experiences. Do you have a doctor who is *willing* to go that extra mile for you..to get into some tricky med combinations? My little theory is that many individual psych meds developed over the years do very little by themselves. With the complexities of our chemistry, we need complex chemicals! LOL!
So, we can get that by mixing and matching...and finding something that tends to some of our worst syptoms.If your current doc won't do it for you, it may be time to get another. I hear of so many people who wtruggle on just one medication, doc adds nothing else, and it mind as well not be worth taking the med alone. As a writer just put it...it seems the more chemicals we muck around with, sometimes the better. (There are exceptions..of course.)
Anyhow...what med(s) are you on now? Please let us know..
Best wishes,
Jay
Posted by Gabbi on August 7, 2002, at 8:00:42
In reply to Re: I'm getting really desperate » gabbi, posted by IsoM on August 7, 2002, at 0:51:37
Yeah, I did Know better,thats why I was pleading for someone to tell me I was being an idiot (in a nice way) it was such a hokey add to say the least, but I needed that extra reality check, thanks,
Posted by Gabbi on August 7, 2002, at 8:12:00
In reply to Re: I'm getting really desperate » IsoM, posted by Gabbi on August 7, 2002, at 8:00:42
thanks Jay,
For such a nice response, I'm on a cocktail of medication, prozac,cytomel,dexedrine, occasional benzo's. I'm lucky to have a Dr. who does go the extra mile. Fortunately I'm seeing him today, its just been really hard to keep going to him because I've moved, and 'being of complex chemistry" as you said, my medication needs to be "tweaked" about ever 6 months, and of course the more depressed I am the harder it is for me to take the initiative to see him.
I saw another post of yours on P.S.B we've had similar long, life sucking depressions.
I'm hoping for a miracle today, but you I'm sure I don't need to tell you know when your down, it just seems impossible to imagine feeling any other way.Thanks again
Jay, very much appreciated.
Posted by susan C on August 7, 2002, at 10:20:12
In reply to I'm getting really desperate, posted by gabbi on August 6, 2002, at 20:13:49
Imso wrote a great, straight forward, contribution here about suppliments. I will see if I can find it again for you.
mouse in search
Posted by velaguff on August 7, 2002, at 12:47:29
In reply to I'm getting really desperate, posted by gabbi on August 6, 2002, at 20:13:49
I've tried Serenity. It's quite sedating, I'm quite sure it is psychoactive. That's not what I need, but I don't regret having tried it. I didn't waste all THAT much money. As far as natural supplements go, I think that the law as it now stands allows firms to sell anything that's found in nature, plant, animal, human, whatever, unless specifically prohibited. When this legislation was passed a few years (6-7?) ago, those against predicted that millions of people would be harmed. Mostly, that hasn't happened. Consider, you can't get steriods OTC, or by prescription either (at least in my state) unless you suffer from some kind of wasting disease. Jocks are no longer allowed to pay a visit to "Dr. Muscle". They now sell, OTC, what are essentially "designer steroids" that are naturally occuring compounds (as opposed to synthetic testosterone) and thus are legal. The best of these work practically as well as real steroids. I haven't heard a thing about them harming anybody. There are so many natural compounds, and potential combinations of natural compounds, that I think it's possible that something worthwhile may eventually be produced for sale. The sanctioned, FDA-approved, pharmacutical approach has as its "greatest accomplishment" SSRI's, which I feel are highly over-rated and over-marketed, though they may work for some. I say we keep our options open.
Posted by oracle on August 7, 2002, at 13:50:35
In reply to Re: I'm getting really desperate, posted by velaguff on August 7, 2002, at 12:47:29
They now sell, OTC, what are essentially "designer steroids" that are naturally occuring compounds (as opposed to synthetic testosterone) and thus are legal. The best of these work practically as well as real steroids. I haven't heard a thing about them harming anybody. There are so many natural compounds, and potential combinations of natural compounds, that I think it's possible that something worthwhile may eventually be produced for sale. The sanctioned, FDA-approved, pharmacutical approach has as its "greatest accomplishment" SSRI's, which I feel are highly over-rated and over-marketed, though they may work for some. I say we keep our options open.
Natural or not steroids cause damage if taken long term.
Posted by fairnymph on August 7, 2002, at 14:46:55
In reply to Re: I'm getting really desperate, posted by Squiggles on August 6, 2002, at 20:41:26
IMO, 5-htp and SJW are not very effective in the treatment of depression or anxiety. I wouldn't waste my money if I were you.
~fairnymph
Posted by velaguff on August 7, 2002, at 15:33:54
In reply to I'm getting really desperate, posted by gabbi on August 6, 2002, at 20:13:49
....they don't go on working forvever. When you reach your natural genetic limit, there's no point in taking them any longer (Lyle Alzado didn't have the sense to recognize this). I think most people notice this and back off after they no longer work, so they're pretty safe in the real world. To bust through that genetic limit, you need growth hormone. That's pretty tricky stuff.
Posted by oracle on August 7, 2002, at 16:21:58
In reply to True, Oracle, About Steroids; However...., posted by velaguff on August 7, 2002, at 15:33:54
> ....they don't go on working forvever. When you reach your natural genetic limit,
I am not aware of a "genetic limit" I was on steroids for many years for a medical condition so I do know about the long term effects.
Posted by hildi on August 7, 2002, at 16:31:27
In reply to I'm getting really desperate, posted by gabbi on August 6, 2002, at 20:13:49
Posted by katekite on August 7, 2002, at 19:55:43
In reply to Yes, I tried it- and I just sent it back! (nm), posted by hildi on August 7, 2002, at 16:31:27
Posted by hildi on August 8, 2002, at 14:31:56
In reply to do tell hildi, what was it and why returned? (nm), posted by katekite on August 7, 2002, at 19:55:43
I, too, was desperate and bought a bottle of that serenity online, that stuff Gabi was talking about. I didn't like it at all. I thought it made me more irritable and sick feeling. Who knows- that just may have been a placebo effect, because I have been extremely irritible and uptight, anxiety ridden for weeks now.
I was hoping this would actually work, but of course it didn't.
Back to the drawing board. it sure would have been great to find something that works that I could buy myself without having to jump through hoops for my dr.
Hildi
PS: I hate my dr.!!!!
Posted by Gabbi on August 8, 2002, at 16:20:46
In reply to it was that Serenity KateKite!, posted by hildi on August 8, 2002, at 14:31:56
Thanks for your thoughts, I'm still surprised at how supportive everyone is.
I guess I'll forgo the serenity, and I've got a new cocktail from my Pdoc, I'm so fortunate I haven't been able to see him regularly, and my medication got so messed up, so now I can talk to him via e-mail I wish I could clone him. He doesn't get paid for this either.
I won't be able to tell if they work until I can wake up though...he told me they would be sedating the first few days, quite the understatement!Grateful Gabbi
Posted by jay on August 9, 2002, at 1:37:23
In reply to Thank-you , posted by Gabbi on August 8, 2002, at 16:20:46
Hey Gabbi:Just want to know the new cocktail, and if there is any reason he put you on what he did. Being a fellow Canuck...maybe we can trade experiences.:-)
Best wishes,
Jay
> Thanks for your thoughts, I'm still surprised at how supportive everyone is.
> I guess I'll forgo the serenity, and I've got a new cocktail from my Pdoc, I'm so fortunate I haven't been able to see him regularly, and my medication got so messed up, so now I can talk to him via e-mail I wish I could clone him. He doesn't get paid for this either.
> I won't be able to tell if they work until I can wake up though...he told me they would be sedating the first few days, quite the understatement!
>
> Grateful Gabbi
Posted by Gabbi on August 9, 2002, at 18:39:15
In reply to Gabbi...what is your new cocktail? » Gabbi, posted by jay on August 9, 2002, at 1:37:23
Wow Jay
I really needed that post of yours, just that feeling of connection eh? Seriously, I'm attempting to battle the Gov who wants me to repay my welfare benefits because somehow they decided I made 43000 dollars last year. My huge earnings were actually 7200, and now they are threatening to not give me my cheque this month ARRRGGHH That and a medication change too much.
Oh that was really social babble stuff, but your post really helped scrape me from the ceiling.Lets see, Doc says my Prozac probably stopped being effective, so I'm lowering my dose gradually while adding Effexor slowly, I got myself off Benzos with the aid of vit C. 3wks ago never been able to stop them before, so now I've got trazedone 50mgs for the anxiety, which might be stopped if the effexor works for that also I'm still prescribed cytomel and dexedrine I think thats everything.
My official title is Miss Major progressive unipolor refractory depression w/comorbid anxiety, its been eight years with a few blessed remissions. Whats your Title?Many Thanks from a grateful Gabbi.
Posted by hildi on August 9, 2002, at 22:30:37
In reply to Re: Gabbi...what is your new cocktail?, posted by Gabbi on August 9, 2002, at 18:39:15
Hey Gabbi- the Vit C really helped you get off benzos? How much vit C were you taking and how were you tapering the benzo? What were you taking, anyhow? Was it Klonopin? I forgot.
Hildi
Posted by Gabbi on August 9, 2002, at 23:19:14
In reply to Re: Gabbi...what is your new cocktail? » Gabbi, posted by hildi on August 9, 2002, at 22:30:37
I was addicted to ativan 8mgs per day,appx 7years I'd never been able to even taper down too under 4mgs. The physical side effects of withdrawl were okay, but I simply couldn't stand The Exruciating anxiety and fear it caused, I could tell myself it was withdrawl but that wasn't enough my brain convinced me It was reality. I'd even been hospitalized and given phenobarbitol to ease the withdrawl and couldn't do it.
This time my living situation was worse than ever, had no job...everything was technically worse. I was given Klonopin 4x50mgs per day instead of Ativan and told it would ease the withdrawl. The klonopin made me so depressed I ended up Overdosing and in the psych ward.
While I was there I was told by a former heroin addict that he had no withdrawl symptoms when he quit "using" because he was told to take 7000mgs of Vit C in divided doses perday. The Dr. who told him this, said it works for almost anything.
It made little sense to me because I know that much C cleans out (delicately put) your system, so I was actually expecting worse withdrawl from having the drug leave my body so fast. I did it anyway, using the buffered kind oF C otherwise you can get a nasty stomach ache.
I did have 6 klonopin at home so I took 2 tablets the first day, and felt fine, so the next day I took 1/2 a tablet. By the third day, I didn't need any. And I was LOOKING for symptoms, practically trying to talk myself into being anxious.
The only side effect I had was insomnia for quite a long time that was nothing compared to the withdrawl hell I'd been through before. And now thats being easily treated with a non-benzo temporary prescription.I'm still in disbelief, but It had to have been the C everything else in my life was so much worse than any time I'd tried, I didn't even think it would work, but I was sure the Phenobarbitol would, so I'm sure that it has some actual physical effect, not a placebo,
So there you have it
7000mgs per day of buffered C powder.
I wouldn't recommend not gradually tapering off the benzos, but I was able to quit them almost over night.Sorry that was such a long answer but I wanted to be sure I got across just how unlikely it was that this time would be a success.
hope it helps
Gabbi
Posted by Squiggles on August 10, 2002, at 7:40:22
In reply to Re: Gabbi...what is your new cocktail? » Gabbi, posted by hildi on August 9, 2002, at 22:30:37
After I had my "stroke/seizure/whatever"
from Klonopin, one of the many weird things
that happened was a tremendous craving for
citrus fruits and i hate citrus fruits normally.Not sure why that was so, but i seemed to need
Vitamin C.Squiggles
Posted by Gabbi on August 10, 2002, at 14:14:41
In reply to Re: Gabbi...what is your new cocktail? » hildi, posted by Squiggles on August 10, 2002, at 7:40:22
Its pretty incredible isn't it? I had a mentally challenged client once who had almost daily seizures, and she had a huge craving for anything fatty, yet she was really slim. We were worried about her heart. She would sneak spoonfuls of butter or mayonnaise out of the fridge, and would
go for days refusing to eat anything but greasy sausages sometimes 12 at one time. Coincidentally I saw a news program about seizures and it said that a high fat diet can be successful in lessening them when all else has failed because the cholesterol helps to form a protective sheath on the "nerves" (I can't remember the proper term) which cause the brain to seizure. Needless to say we stopped trying to discourage her fat eating and her seizures lessened substantially.... Too bad that body intuition has been trained out of most of us.Gabbi-
Posted by Squiggles on August 10, 2002, at 14:28:45
In reply to Re: Gabbi...what is your new cocktail? » Squiggles, posted by Gabbi on August 10, 2002, at 14:14:41
It's called the *myelin sheath* and it covers
the nerve and protects it; its destruction
(and there are many causes, to my trepidation
i found nephrogenic diabetes insipidus, for
example) leads to many serious disorders such
as MS, and ther neurological diseases, besides
stroke and seizure.Squiggles
Posted by hildi on August 10, 2002, at 14:29:51
In reply to Re: Benzo Withdrawl » hildi, posted by Gabbi on August 9, 2002, at 23:19:14
No Gabbi-that wasn't too long at all, it was very informative. Thanks for the reply.
I still don't understand though- how much Klonopin were you on? It looks like you wrote 50mg four times a day??I am just thinking of starting benzos myself and am afraid. What is the non-benzo med you are using now for anxiety? Is it working?
Is the trazedone for anxiety? How about the phenobarbital- how does that fit into all this- were you given that while in the hospital or ?? (Sorry, I cannot remember what you may have said in previous posts about pheno).I am definately keeping this info on the vitamin
C (buffered!)for in case I ever do go through something bad with the benzos- if I do go on them.
That, to me , is pretty amazing info that a vitamin so common could be of so much help.
Good luck to you Gabbi and I am really glad you are feeling better.
Hildi
Posted by hildi on August 10, 2002, at 14:41:22
In reply to Re: Gabbi...what is your new cocktail? » hildi, posted by Squiggles on August 10, 2002, at 7:40:22
> After I had my "stroke/seizure/whatever"
> from Klonopin, one of the many weird things
> that happened was a tremendous craving for
> citrus fruits and i hate citrus fruits normally.
>
> Not sure why that was so, but i seemed to need
> Vitamin C.
>
> SquigglesVery interesting! Thanks for the reply Squiggles-
Hey, I have to ask you something. I have read some of your posts, and it sounds like you have been through hell and back. Would it appropriate to say a lot of what you went through was mainly because of the klonopin?
It sounds as though you are back on it again, but I thought I read a post of yours that mentioned your dr. weaning you off- you are maybe on something different?
A lot of what I'm asking is this: knowing what you know now, would you have still have gone on klonopin? Or would you have taken something different?
I don't know what it was prescribed for you for. For me, I'm debating klonopin use for major anxiety d/o, and the SSRI's I have been taking don't address the anxiety completely- my life is very limited because of this. Also, the SSRI's make me more nervious/tense in other ways and have, as you probably already know, a slew of other side effects.
Hildi
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