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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Angel Girl on February 27, 2002, at 21:03:27
Hi! I just discovered this forum a few days ago while doing a net search on Effexor. This forum is a Godsend.
I started taking Celexa in October 2001. In the beginning I experienced nausea and was taking Gravol every day. That lasted a couple of weeks. I also was unable to get to sleep at night even though I'd be exhausted and yawning constantly so I was put on Triazolam .25mg. The Celexa never did anything at all to relieve my severe depression so my GP switched me to 37.5mg of Effexor. It has been very slowly increased and last week it was substantially increased to the level I'm on now, which is Effexor SR 225mg. Even though I have tried to get off the Triazolam several times it has not been successful. I feel like I'm going to be taking it FOREVER!!!! FINALLY at the 225mg level of Effexor SR I am feeling some optimism that I don't have to live in the dark pit of despair.
I have some side effects, extremely dry mouth to the point that I can't even swallow, constipation, fatigue, memory loss, lack of concentration, loss of apetite and weight loss, twitches and jerks/jolts when relaxing. Now I find that the jerks at night are keeping me from getting to sleep. So far, once I'm asleep they don't wake me up. Each day the twitches and jerks are getting more pronounced. I am somewhat willing to live with the side effects since the Effexor SR is having a positive effect on my moods.
I have been depressed most of my life to varying degrees but last July I was experiencing extreme highs followed by crashes. I didn't mind the highs at all but the crashes were unbearable. Is this manic depression???? I was not on any medication at that time and had no idea what was wrong with me. But all of a sudden in October, the highs disappeared and left me with severe depression. That is when I sought medical help. I was also getting migraines, rashes and extreme itchiness in my legs even though there was no rash on them. It was at this point that my GP put me on medication.
I am not in any therapy as I can't find anybody who will take me as a patient. I've so far been told that I'm 'untreatable' and that the only thing I can do is to take anti-depressants for the rest of my life. The reasoning I was given was because there is way too much stuff to deal with, I can't remember the details of the traumas and I have a hard time talking about what I do remember. The first time I heard that from a psychatrist I was totally shocked and devastated. I left there in tears. Somehow, in subsequent assessments when told the same thing it didn't bother me, I was almost numb.
I have numerous major traumas in my life that lead me to this point. I also have 'blocked out' details of most of the traumas and an entire 4 1/2 year consecutive time-span. I'm also VERY suicidal and have a plan worked out. I am VERY self-destructive in all aspects of my life. Throughout my depression I managed to get myself into MAJOR financial debt and almost lost my home. I was on medical leave from work for November 2001 thru Dec 2001. I am still only working minimal hours per week since then. I can't seem to get into work more than twice a week. I'm exhausted. I also have an EXTREMELY hard time maintaining friendships and having a hard time with family. I'm alienating everybody with my way of thinking and moods. I can't seem to get anybody to understand me and what I'm going through and I find that VERY VERY frustrating. Everybody thinks I should just snap out of this. Ooooooh, if it was that easy. :(
Can somebody please tell me if these side effects will go away and how long they take, especially the twitches and jerks????
Do you work while you're dealing with your depression???
Do you think with multiple MAJOR traumas, blocking out traumas, difficulty in talking about them and constant suicidal thoughts that I am a candidate for therapy???
If so, what kind of therapist: psychatrist, psychologist, therapist, social worker, other???
Thank you for your help!!! I'm enjoying reading all the posts here. :)
Posted by LiLi80 on February 27, 2002, at 21:38:07
In reply to Psychotherapy ~ need advice please!, posted by Angel Girl on February 27, 2002, at 21:03:27
whatever idiot told you you weren't treatable needs to have their head examined. I was kicked off my school for my depression and they didnt tell me they just changed the locks on me. Ok people need to have a lesson in what will make things worse for someone who is suicidal. don't worry you will find a therapist. I have a therapist and a psychiatrist/pill pusher. I recommend having both. My pusher handles my drugs, while my therapist listens to me when other people won't. Remember, you dont have to keep the first one you find, think of it as an interviewing process. You are interviewing them! you dont have to ask questions or anything, but at the end of the appointment you will know if you feel comfortable enough to continue seeing them. Good luck, and welcome.
Posted by Angel Girl on February 27, 2002, at 21:48:15
In reply to Re: Psychotherapy ~ need advice please! » Angel Girl, posted by LiLi80 on February 27, 2002, at 21:38:07
Hi LiLi80
I was told I'm untreatable by two people already. They are the only professionals I've seen so far other than my GP who is giving me my medication. It's very discouraging when every time I go for an assessment I'm told that I can't be treated with therapy. :(
Thanks for your encouragement.
Posted by SoS on February 27, 2002, at 23:23:44
In reply to Re: Psychotherapy ~ need advice please!, posted by Angel Girl on February 27, 2002, at 21:48:15
Have you seen a psychiatrist? You might try one because he/she will be able to narrow down what medications will work for your symptoms more effectively than a GP. Also, keep trying w/ the therapist thing. 2 opinions does not make it a fact that you are untreatable. Welcome to PB.
MM
Posted by Angel Girl on February 27, 2002, at 23:35:03
In reply to Re: Psychotherapy ~ need advice please! » Angel Girl, posted by SoS on February 27, 2002, at 23:23:44
> Have you seen a psychiatrist? You might try one because he/she will be able to narrow down what medications will work for your symptoms more effectively than a GP. Also, keep trying w/ the therapist thing. 2 opinions does not make it a fact that you are untreatable. Welcome to PB.
> MMYes I have seen a psychatrist. He was the first 'professional' to tell me I'm untreatable. :( He also sent a letter to my GP to advice him on what medication would be appropriate. Although I wasn't happy with his feelings about therapy, he seems to be right about the meds. The Effexor XR 225 mg is working for me. His advice was to increase me up to 300mg. I do have to say though, that I'm more than a little concerned with everything I have read here about Effexor even though it is working. But even with these reservations I KNOW that if not for it, I would have killed myself by now.
Posted by ST on February 28, 2002, at 3:00:05
In reply to Psychotherapy ~ need advice please!, posted by Angel Girl on February 27, 2002, at 21:03:27
>>Hi! I just discovered this forum a few days >>ago while doing a net search on Effexor.
That's how I found this place. You'll notice there is a lot of Effexor talk! I've been on 225 mg of Effexor XR for about two months now.
>> I have some side effects,My side effects have been dry mouth, fatigue and constipation. They are going away slowly. As far as the jerks and twitches, I think there is a med for that which has been discussed on this board. Try doing a search for it in the archives.
>>I have been depressed most of my life to >>varying degrees but last July I was >>experiencing extreme highs followed by >>crashes.... I didn't mind the highs at all but >>the crashes were unbearable...But all of a >>sudden in October, the highs disappeared and >>left me with severe depression. That is when I >>sought medical help.That's pretty much my story. Depressed since I was 15 when I tried to commit suicide, and then when I was about 20 I started experiencing minor high periods followed by crashes. Then after a particularly "high" period, I crashed severely. That's when I finally went to a doctor. I was diagnosed as a bi polar II and put on Depakote, a mood stabilizer. There were no more high periods, but there were still the debilitating depressons. After about a year or two, my pdoc added Wellbutrin to the mix. Still no real
long-term "lift" in the depression. Finally, I added an SSRI (Serzone, then Celexa and now Effexor) with the Wellbutrin and Depakote and have been feeling great every since.>> I am not in any therapy
You HAVE to find a psychiatrist as soon as possible. Hopefully, he/she will help you find a therapist. I think you can benefit from both.
>>...as I can't find anybody who will take me as >>a patient.I've so far been told that >>I'm 'untreatable'
That is the most ridiculous thing I think I've heard. I'm sure you're a challenge to a doctor, but to REFUSE you? Believe me, there are plenty of doctors and therapists who will take you on.
>> I have numerous major traumas in my life that >>lead me to this point. I also have 'blocked >>out' details of most of the traumas and an >>entire 4 1/2 year consecutive time-span.I really believe that a combination of talk therapy along with visits to a psychiatrist for medication will do wonders for you and give you hope once again. You'll be surprised how much progress you can make. These doctors who are saying "no" to you are appalling!
>>I'm also VERY suicidal and have a plan worked >>out. I am VERY self-destructive in all aspects >>of my life.All the more reason to find a good doctor as soon as possible. Have you tried to commit suicide in the past?
>>Throughout my depression I managed to get >>myself into MAJOR financial debt and almost >>lost my home.
Oh boy...me too. I now have the most hideous credit.
>>Everybody thinks I should just snap out of >>this. Ooooooh, if it was that easy. :(
It would be good for you to find understanding people with knowledge about mental illness and surround yourself with them. (Coming here is a good start!) I used to truly believe I was a bad person for not being able to "snap out of it".
>>Do you work while you're dealing with your >>depression???
During my up and down - mostly down - times, I rarely worked. It was a major achievment to get to work and make it through the entire shift (I was waitressing at the time). I would constantly cry on the way to work because I hated going. I could only muster the energy for two, maybe three shifts per week. I would call in sick or continually try to find other people to "cover" my shifts.
>>Do you think with multiple MAJOR traumas, >>blocking out traumas, difficulty in talking >>about them and constant suicidal thoughts that >>I am a candidate for therapy???
Of course. Once your Effexor (or something else perhaps) really kicks in, you'll be able to really start focusing on getting your life in order. You seem willing to look at your past and willing to go in to therapy. You sound like a great candidate!
>>If so, what kind of therapist: psychatrist, psychologist, therapist, social worker, other???
Start with a really good psychiatrist (for meds and diagnosis) and from there you should be able to get some recommendations for a good therapist.
Also, arm yourself with as much knowledge as you can. Read the posts here. Do searches on the web. Read about the different classifications of medications. Read about unipolar depression, bi polar I and II and anything else you can get your hands on. As soon as I was diagnosed as bi polar, I went ape trying to find out as much as I could. I found that the knowledge I gained eventually narrowed the gap between myself and my "illness". Now, my "illness" isn't so huge and unmanageable and scary to me. I also ask alot of questions of my psychiatrist and even discuss different medications and dosages with him.
If you are diagnosed (after a few opinions)
as bi polar, you will most likely be prescribed a mood stabilizer like Lithium, Depakote or Topamax in addition to your AD. Because of your highs and lows followed by crashes, it sounds as if you are bi polar.Do you have insurance? And do you mind revealing what part of the country you are in?
Good luck!
Sarah
Posted by mdertinger on February 28, 2002, at 8:37:40
In reply to Psychotherapy ~ need advice please!, posted by Angel Girl on February 27, 2002, at 21:03:27
A psychiatrist usually only deals with the med side. If you think your psychiatrist is not aggressive enough in your medication, or doesn't acknowledge your bipolar symptoms, FIND another!
Both Celexa and Effexor are good meds, but they may not work for you. There are lot's of choices, including Prozac, Zoloft. You may need a mood stabilizer as well.A psychologist, therapist, or social worker, they all do talk/behavior therapy. Make sure they have a license to do clinical/therapy work. None of them should turn you away unless you don't show for appointments or won't talk at all during sessions.
A good therapist is very hard to find, but keep looking. I've seen at least 10 different therapist during my 10 years with depression, and I found only 3 of them provided any help. If you don't connect with the therapist, find a new one!Mental health is possible, but you must be willing to find good doctors, take medications if needed, and commit to working on your issues.
Posted by mdertinger on February 28, 2002, at 8:51:38
In reply to Re: Psychotherapy ~ need advice please!, posted by ST on February 28, 2002, at 3:00:05
The post from ST says it all. You must make the doctors listen to you! And definitely stop getting meds from your GP. You need a Psychiatrist!
I've taken antidepressants for over 8 years now (I'm 36). I tried Paxil, Zoloft, Effexor before finding Prozac worked. Over time, I've increase my dose from 20 to 40 mg. During the 8 years, I went off meds when I was pregnant (twice). Post partum was severe, but once I got back on Prozac, I was fine.
I now take 60 mg Prozac and 150 Wellbutrin (to help with energy).
I also think about my long term use of AD's, but I look at it like having diabeties or high blood pressure. I have an illness that will need to be treated probably all my life. And that's OK.
Good Luck
Posted by Angel Girl on February 28, 2002, at 11:07:31
In reply to Re: Psychotherapy ~ need advice please!, posted by ST on February 28, 2002, at 3:00:05
> >>Hi! I just discovered this forum a few days >>ago while doing a net search on Effexor.
>
> That's how I found this place. You'll notice there is a lot of Effexor talk! I've been on 225 mg of Effexor XR for about two months now.
>
>
> >> I have some side effects,
>
> My side effects have been dry mouth, fatigue and constipation. They are going away slowly. As far as the jerks and twitches, I think there is a med for that which has been discussed on this board. Try doing a search for it in the archives.
>
> >>I have been depressed most of my life to >>varying degrees but last July I was >>experiencing extreme highs followed by >>crashes.... I didn't mind the highs at all but >>the crashes were unbearable...But all of a >>sudden in October, the highs disappeared and >>left me with severe depression. That is when I >>sought medical help.
>
> That's pretty much my story. Depressed since I was 15 when I tried to commit suicide, and then when I was about 20 I started experiencing minor high periods followed by crashes. Then after a particularly "high" period, I crashed severely. That's when I finally went to a doctor. I was diagnosed as a bi polar II and put on Depakote, a mood stabilizer. There were no more high periods, but there were still the debilitating depressons. After about a year or two, my pdoc added Wellbutrin to the mix. Still no real
> long-term "lift" in the depression. Finally, I added an SSRI (Serzone, then Celexa and now Effexor) with the Wellbutrin and Depakote and have been feeling great every since.
>
> >> I am not in any therapy
>
> You HAVE to find a psychiatrist as soon as possible. Hopefully, he/she will help you find a therapist. I think you can benefit from both.
>
> >>...as I can't find anybody who will take me as >>a patient.I've so far been told that >>I'm 'untreatable'
>
> That is the most ridiculous thing I think I've heard. I'm sure you're a challenge to a doctor, but to REFUSE you? Believe me, there are plenty of doctors and therapists who will take you on.
>
> >> I have numerous major traumas in my life that >>lead me to this point. I also have 'blocked >>out' details of most of the traumas and an >>entire 4 1/2 year consecutive time-span.
>
> I really believe that a combination of talk therapy along with visits to a psychiatrist for medication will do wonders for you and give you hope once again. You'll be surprised how much progress you can make. These doctors who are saying "no" to you are appalling!
>
>
> >>I'm also VERY suicidal and have a plan worked >>out. I am VERY self-destructive in all aspects >>of my life.
>
> All the more reason to find a good doctor as soon as possible. Have you tried to commit suicide in the past?
>
> >>Throughout my depression I managed to get >>myself into MAJOR financial debt and almost >>lost my home.
>
> Oh boy...me too. I now have the most hideous credit.
>
> >>Everybody thinks I should just snap out of >>this. Ooooooh, if it was that easy. :(
>
> It would be good for you to find understanding people with knowledge about mental illness and surround yourself with them. (Coming here is a good start!) I used to truly believe I was a bad person for not being able to "snap out of it".
>
> >>Do you work while you're dealing with your >>depression???
>
> During my up and down - mostly down - times, I rarely worked. It was a major achievment to get to work and make it through the entire shift (I was waitressing at the time). I would constantly cry on the way to work because I hated going. I could only muster the energy for two, maybe three shifts per week. I would call in sick or continually try to find other people to "cover" my shifts.
>
> >>Do you think with multiple MAJOR traumas, >>blocking out traumas, difficulty in talking >>about them and constant suicidal thoughts that >>I am a candidate for therapy???
>
> Of course. Once your Effexor (or something else perhaps) really kicks in, you'll be able to really start focusing on getting your life in order. You seem willing to look at your past and willing to go in to therapy. You sound like a great candidate!
>
> >>If so, what kind of therapist: psychatrist, psychologist, therapist, social worker, other???
>
> Start with a really good psychiatrist (for meds and diagnosis) and from there you should be able to get some recommendations for a good therapist.
>
> Also, arm yourself with as much knowledge as you can. Read the posts here. Do searches on the web. Read about the different classifications of medications. Read about unipolar depression, bi polar I and II and anything else you can get your hands on. As soon as I was diagnosed as bi polar, I went ape trying to find out as much as I could. I found that the knowledge I gained eventually narrowed the gap between myself and my "illness". Now, my "illness" isn't so huge and unmanageable and scary to me. I also ask alot of questions of my psychiatrist and even discuss different medications and dosages with him.
>
> If you are diagnosed (after a few opinions)
> as bi polar, you will most likely be prescribed a mood stabilizer like Lithium, Depakote or Topamax in addition to your AD. Because of your highs and lows followed by crashes, it sounds as if you are bi polar.
>
> Do you have insurance? And do you mind revealing what part of the country you are in?
>
> Good luck!
>
> Sarah
SarahYou sound EXACTLY like me. I can't believe I have found somebody that appears to be going through exactly the same thing as me. I live in Canada. I do have insurance. Although I have been to 2 different pyschatrists neither one of them gave me a diagnosis to what kind of depression I have. I didn't think to ask. My only concern was to get help before I was successful with suicide. I don't have the highs anymore. They only lasted 2 months ending last August. Now I only have severe depression. A week and a half ago I was changed from Effexor 150mg to Effexor XR 225mg. Immediately after one dose my life improved. I have not cried once and have no more suicidal thoughts. BTW, yes I have tried to commit suicide a couple of times and came very close to doing it several times before increasing the Effexor to 225mg. The 225mg seems to be a Godsend for me. Thank you for replying my post. I feel so much better to know that what I am experiencing isn't unique and that I'm not going crazy. :)
Posted by ST on March 1, 2002, at 2:58:56
In reply to Re: Psychotherapy ~ need advice please!, posted by Angel Girl on February 28, 2002, at 11:07:31
> Sarah
>
> You sound EXACTLY like me. I can't believe I have found somebody that appears to be going through exactly the same thing as me. I live in Canada. I do have insurance. Although I have been to 2 different pyschatrists neither one of them gave me a diagnosis to what kind of depression I have. I didn't think to ask. My only concern was to get help before I was successful with suicide. I don't have the highs anymore. They only lasted 2 months ending last August. Now I only have severe depression. A week and a half ago I was changed from Effexor 150mg to Effexor XR 225mg. Immediately after one dose my life improved. I have not cried once and have no more suicidal thoughts. BTW, yes I have tried to commit suicide a couple of times and came very close to doing it several times before increasing the Effexor to 225mg. The 225mg seems to be a Godsend for me. Thank you for replying my post. I feel so much better to know that what I am experiencing isn't unique and that I'm not going crazy. :)Hi,
That's so weird that neither doctor gave you a diagnosis. Doctors love to label!
Even though your "highs" were over in August, you could still be bi polar. See, I'm technically a bi polar, but I'm mostly depressed than manic or hypomanic. But simply because I've had one episode that qualifies as true hypomania, I'm diagnosed as a bi polar II. And I do believe that's a correct diagnosis. The other "highs" were very normal looking to the outside world. Just as if I was a hyper person who gets a lot done.
It's great you have insurance. Find a good psychiatrist first and take it from there. When you started Effexor, did you get a bit hyper or energized?
Sarah
Posted by Angel Girl on March 1, 2002, at 4:57:51
In reply to Re: Psychotherapy ~ need advice please!, posted by ST on March 1, 2002, at 2:58:56
Sarah
No when I first started Effexor I felt nothing. It didn't seem to make any difference. I did start getting side effects at the 75mg dosage but it wasn't until I was increased to Effexor XR 225mg that I had relief from my depression. I also got more side effects with that dosage as well. :( I'm still trying to find a psychatrist but I'm having a hard time finding anybody who will take me on. :(
Posted by ST on March 2, 2002, at 4:18:16
In reply to Re: Psychotherapy ~ need advice please!, posted by Angel Girl on March 1, 2002, at 4:57:51
AG,I just find it so weird that no doctor will take you on....I don't know where you live in Canada, but I did find this web site. They have branches across Canada I think. You need a referral and hopefully your GP will give you that. Here's the web site address and an excerpt from their pages:
www.camh.net/index.html
Mental Health
Joint General Psychiatry Program
Jointly administered by the Centre and Mount Sinai Hospital
The Joint General Psychiatry Program is a fully integrated program of the Centre for Addiction and Mental Health and Mount Sinai Hospital. The program provides mental health services to adults with emotional, psychological or psychiatric problems. The range of services offered by the program includes emergency and crisis services, short-term inpatient care, assessments and follow-up treatment. Multidisciplinary treatment teams provide care which is tailored to each individual client's needs and goals. Clients can move freely across the full range of services as required by individual circumstances.
Assessment Service
Outpatient, general psychiatric consultation services for adults age 18 and over.Referral required: Yes. Family doctor or psychiatrist.
A PDF version (86KB download) of the Assessment Service referral form is available here.Contact: (416) 979-6878
Location: Clarke site, ground floor. Mount Sinai Hospital, 9th floor.
Good luck!
Sarah
Posted by Angel Girl on March 2, 2002, at 13:45:51
In reply to Re: Psychotherapy ~ need advice please!, posted by ST on March 2, 2002, at 4:18:16
Sarah
Thanks for the info. That place is in Toronto and that is the city where I live. I'm seeing my GP on Tuesday and I will ask for a referral. I should have thought of that place before. I used to have panic attacks and I once went there for a lecture to understand what I was going through. I will certainly be looking into this. Thanks for taking the time to help me and finding that info. I really appreciate it.
BTW, how are you doing??? I'd like to hear more about you if you don't mind. If you would prefer to talk privately then I can give you my email addy. Please let me know. :)
Thx again,
Angel Girl
Posted by ST on March 3, 2002, at 3:37:19
In reply to Re: Psychotherapy ~ need advice please!, posted by Angel Girl on March 2, 2002, at 13:45:51
Angel Girl,
I'm glad that you know where that place is! You have to let me know how it goes.
You can e mail me at [xxx]
Sarah
This is the end of the thread.
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