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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 25. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by recoverybound on December 16, 2006, at 16:08:30
I was in detox for 5 days for benzos (I had used about 60 mg of valium per day for about a year). They sent me home with nothing but Cymbalta. Much to my dismay, ALL WD symptoms came back within 5 days! I think they withdrew me too quickly. I don't know what to do now; the hospital wants to pass the buck to my regular doc, but he's clueless. Help! Has anyone else experenced this??????? I desperately need direction.
Posted by Phillipa on December 16, 2006, at 16:08:31
In reply to Withdrawal Symtom Relapse from Benzos?, posted by recoverybound on December 14, 2006, at 20:11:33
Gee that's horrible and yes that is too quick. Which med did they use to detox you? Can you go to a special detox place? Love Phillipa
Posted by zmg on December 16, 2006, at 16:08:32
In reply to Withdrawal Symtom Relapse from Benzos?, posted by recoverybound on December 14, 2006, at 20:11:33
Wow. I just detoxed from 30/40 mgs a day (for about 2 years). I titrated over the course of *at least a month* down to about 2.5 mgs (really about the smallest I could get with a pill cutter).
I had a few rough days (unreasonable irritability mostly) but it wasn't so bad.
Are you having trouble sleeping? I did use Phenibut (Tension RX from my local Whole Foods) to help sleep., 2-3 capsules before bed. They *may* have helped in other ways but I wasn't aware and hadn't taken that into consideration.
If they don't interfere with any of your medications you might consider (maybe talk to your doctor, let him do a little bookwork!).
Hope you feel better!
Posted by Simcha on December 16, 2006, at 16:08:32
In reply to Withdrawal Symtom Relapse from Benzos?, posted by recoverybound on December 14, 2006, at 20:11:33
Eesh! That's way too fast, in my humble non- medical doctor opinion. I withdrew from only 1mg of Klonopin very slowly for 2 months. I felt no symptoms from it.
I suspect that there was a money decision made here. Treatment for addiction, or dependence, is very expensive. Most insurance companies aren't willing to pay for treatment for addiction, or dependence, for very long because of the expense and government isn't much better if you rely on a governmental plan here in the US.
I wish you well, hang in there and get support from as many folks as you can. Perhaps you can seek other psychiatric advice elsewhere from another doc?
Simcha
Posted by valene on December 16, 2006, at 16:08:32
In reply to Withdrawal Symtom Relapse from Benzos?, posted by recoverybound on December 14, 2006, at 20:11:33
You were treated criminally - 60mg per day taken down to zero in 5 days! That is a travesty. No wonder you have every symptom in the book. This makes me see red!
NEVER EVER Go to a detox facility to get off benzos! Read the Heather Ashton literature on the web. She recommends (and most doctors with an ounce of knowledge and compassion) to decrease the benzo by no more than *10%* very very slowly. It should have taken you about a year to get off this amount. Makes me furious.
Find a good doctor who KNOWS about decreasing benzos the 10% rule, and maybe reinstate the valium and begin a very slow decrease. Otherwise you may be in for *protracted* withdrawal symptoms. Best of luck,
Val
Posted by tensor on December 16, 2006, at 16:08:32
In reply to Withdrawal Symtom Relapse from Benzos?, posted by recoverybound on December 14, 2006, at 20:11:33
That's way too quickly. Be alert of any withdrawal symptoms, and make sure you have any benzo within reach. I wouldn't hesitate continue with the benzos if the withdrawal symptoms are getting ugly. And make sure you get a couple of months for next detox/discontinuation.
Good luck,
Mattias
Posted by valene on December 16, 2006, at 16:08:32
In reply to Re: Withdrawal Symtom Relapse from Benzos? » recoverybound, posted by tensor on December 15, 2006, at 11:25:18
Sorry, but with that amount of valium (60mg) he needs more than a couple months of withdrawal. Seriously, read the literature that Heather Ashton provides or better still check out this website:
Posted by Zena on December 16, 2006, at 16:08:32
In reply to Re: Withdrawal Symtom Relapse from Benzos? » recoverybound, posted by Simcha on December 15, 2006, at 1:19:25
Simach,
I am also on 1mg. klonopin & am wanting to go off of it. How did you taper for 2 months? I plan to do this the first of the yr. To much to deal with right now.
Zena
Posted by tensor on December 16, 2006, at 16:08:32
In reply to Re: Withdrawal Symtom Relapse from Benzos?, posted by valene on December 15, 2006, at 17:16:34
Heather Ashton... I wonder why she took benzos in the first place.
Posted by valene on December 16, 2006, at 16:08:32
In reply to Re: Withdrawal Symtom Relapse from Benzos? » valene, posted by tensor on December 15, 2006, at 20:49:34
> Heather Ashton... I wonder why she took benzos in the first place.
She didn't "take" benzos. She started a clinic to help people learn how to withdraw from them, with a high percentage of success rates.
Posted by Phillipa on December 16, 2006, at 18:43:33
In reply to Re: Withdrawal Symtom Relapse from Benzos?, posted by valene on December 16, 2006, at 9:21:23
Valene didn't you post a link to her withdrawal? Maybe post it again if it's handy. Love Phillipa
Posted by Declan on December 17, 2006, at 13:04:23
In reply to Withdrawal Symtom Relapse from Benzos?, posted by recoverybound on December 14, 2006, at 20:11:33
I'm not surprised you withdrawal symptoms came back, it's a surprise they ever went away.
5 days is just the start.
60mg Valium?
You must feel terrible.
Posted by Simcha on December 18, 2006, at 20:17:35
In reply to Re: Withdrawal Symtom Relapse from Benzos?, posted by Zena on December 15, 2006, at 19:40:48
Zena,
I'm not a medical doctor, so I won't presume to know exactly what will work for you. Also I remember that I was put on Neurontin at the same time I was tapering on Klonopin so that might have made the withdrawal easier. This is what I was told to do:
day 0 = 1mg Klonopin
days 1-14 = .75mg Klonopin
days 15-28 = .50mg Klonopin
days 29-42 = .25mg Klonopin
days 42-60 = .25mg Klonopin every other day
day 61+ = No KlonopinLike I said, I was put on Neurontin, which I still take while tapering down off of Klonopin. From what I've read this is a slow tapering schedule for Klonopin. However, I know other people who have done it more slowly with .125mg decreases for each tapering step.
The best thing to do is to ask your doctor before even attempting to come off of Klonopin. Discuss the merits and the drawbacks of continuing and discontinuing Klonopin. Then ask the doctor for a tapering schedule. Follow it to the letter, reporting back into the doctor every time you decrease your dose, or whenever you find that you are having withdrawal symptoms. The doctor may want to adjust your tapering schedule according to how you react while tapering.
It's always best to talk to a doctor before discontinuing any prescription medicine, let alone a psychotropic med.
Simcha
Posted by khfreibe on December 19, 2006, at 7:08:16
In reply to Re: Withdrawal Symtom Relapse from Benzos? » Zena, posted by Simcha on December 18, 2006, at 20:17:35
My doctor said yesterday that when I go back to her she is going to switch me from Xanax to Klonopin. I have relied on Xanax for 4 years to get me through my irritation and am scared to death of not having it. Does anyone have anyw words of wisdom?
Posted by Simcha on December 20, 2006, at 0:14:06
In reply to Re: Withdrawal Symtom Relapse from Benzos?, posted by khfreibe on December 19, 2006, at 7:08:16
The only thing I know about the differences between the two is that Klonopin stays in your system longer than Xanax. That means that you come down of off Xanax much more quickly than you come down off of Klonopin.
That being said, I've read that others on here say that Klonopin does not work fast enough for an anxiety attack and yet it's good for the general anxiety. Xanax works best for an anxiety attack and yet goes away too quickly to work consistently on general anxiety.
Can anyone else help out? I've only been on Klonopin an I can say that I had to wait to feel an effect.
Simcah
Posted by yxibow on December 21, 2006, at 1:35:43
In reply to Re: Withdrawal Symtom Relapse from Benzos? » khfreibe, posted by Simcha on December 20, 2006, at 0:14:06
The Ashton site, is not managed by her, whoever she may be. Its a controversial topic so if people want to believe in her methods that's fine, I personally believe that she really wants to get everybody off of benzodiazepines period, as in non-use of them. Which I think is a disservice to those who benefit, but anyhow and just encourages the disuse of them, especially in the UK.
Withdrawing from them for whatever reason, though, is no more than 5 or 10% per week, depending on how long one is on a certain medication in part though not completely true, and for what indication, etc.Withdrawing in 5 days from a benzo in any significant dose is not terribly smart -- there are a lot of rebound effects depending on what disorder one is taking it for, not to mention the fact that withdrawing from any AED (the entire class of such drugs) has to be taken seriously because they, after all, had a primary purpose at one point not just for anxiety but for epilepsy.
You do not have to have epilepsy to have a grand mal seizure and withdrawing quickly from any AED potentiates the risk of having one. Whatever method one chooses to do so, it should be medically sound, rational, and slow. The benzodiazepine will still be there tomorrow, yes, but absent any serious problems with ones liver or kidney, it will still be there tomorrow and it can be tapered slowly. In other words, there is no serious rush, and they cannot be withdrawn in days with vomiting and nasty psychotic symptoms like heroin withdrawal and live to tell the tale comfortably. [pardon the graphicness].
I know personally, I withdrew cold turkey from Tranxene before I knew much about benzodiazepines and to this day I still have some odd back tightness and scalp tightness from spasms that occurred at the time. Were the doctors on top of it, they would have restored the full dose, not some paltry amount. Anyhow, word to the wise about them.
Otherwise, they are perfectly good medications when used as directed and have been around for nearly 50 years.-- tidings
Posted by Jeroen on December 23, 2006, at 11:09:11
In reply to Withdrawal Symtom Relapse from Benzos?, posted by recoverybound on December 14, 2006, at 20:11:33
6 weeks it takes to withdrawl from benzo no matter wich one you take, it takes aprox 6 weeks, 2 weeks to get out of your body and you will feel 4 weeks like sh*t... ups and downs, i just withdrawed from tranxene wich i took a year, it's very nasty, but once its out of your system, you will feel better i can assure that..... it's been 5 days since i started to feel better again, i wish you good luck, i got a little help from ED_UK
thanks ED!!!! btw i took seroquel now, and i am going to have rapid heartbeat and heavy sedation, xwich is not funny... really
Posted by yxibow on December 23, 2006, at 11:09:11
In reply to 6 weeks it takes to withdrawl from benzo no matter, posted by Jeroen on December 17, 2006, at 15:34:49
> 6 weeks it takes to withdrawl from benzo no matter wich one you take, it takes aprox 6 weeks, 2 weeks to get out of your body and you will feel 4 weeks like sh*t... ups and downs, i just withdrawed from tranxene wich i took a year, it's very nasty, but once its out of your system, you will feel better i can assure that..... it's been 5 days since i started to feel better again, i wish you good luck, i got a little help from ED_UK
>
>
> thanks ED!!!! btw i took seroquel now, and i am going to have rapid heartbeat and heavy sedation, xwich is not funny... really
Oh, it can take more than 6 weeks, but per the posting on the redirect, no matter what method you use, I personally have distaste for the whole Ashton thing but others can believe as they wish, its around 5-10% per week, give or take, if you don't want serious side effects.-- tidings
Posted by laima on December 23, 2006, at 11:09:12
In reply to Re: 6 weeks it takes to withdrawl from benzo no ma » Jeroen, posted by yxibow on December 21, 2006, at 1:37:28
It can also take less than 6 weeks.> > 6 weeks it takes to withdrawl from benzo no matter wich one you take, it takes aprox 6 weeks, 2 weeks to get out of your body and you will feel 4 weeks like sh*t... ups and downs, i just withdrawed from tranxene wich i took a year, it's very nasty, but once its out of your system, you will feel better i can assure that..... it's been 5 days since i started to feel better again, i wish you good luck, i got a little help from ED_UK
> >
> >
> > thanks ED!!!! btw i took seroquel now, and i am going to have rapid heartbeat and heavy sedation, xwich is not funny... really
>
>
> Oh, it can take more than 6 weeks, but per the posting on the redirect, no matter what method you use, I personally have distaste for the whole Ashton thing but others can believe as they wish, its around 5-10% per week, give or take, if you don't want serious side effects.
>
> -- tidings
Posted by zmg on December 23, 2006, at 11:09:12
In reply to Re: 6 weeks it takes to withdrawl from benzo no ma, posted by laima on December 21, 2006, at 11:11:47
It took me about 4. I'm a big proponent of go at a pace that seems reasonable to you, if you can find a doctor that is less sadist and more helpful.
Posted by laima on December 23, 2006, at 11:09:12
In reply to Re: 6 weeks it takes to withdrawl from benzo no ma, posted by zmg on December 21, 2006, at 11:17:26
Yes, took me just about 4 also to come off of 2 mg klonopin for over 4 years.> It took me about 4. I'm a big proponent of go at a pace that seems reasonable to you, if you can find a doctor that is less sadist and more helpful.
Posted by Oppycat on December 23, 2006, at 11:09:12
In reply to Withdrawal Symtom Relapse from Benzos?, posted by recoverybound on December 14, 2006, at 20:11:33
> I was in detox for 5 days for benzos (I had used about 60 mg of valium per day for about a year). They sent me home with nothing but Cymbalta. Much to my dismay, ALL WD symptoms came back within 5 days! I think they withdrew me too quickly. I don't know what to do now; the hospital wants to pass the buck to my regular doc, but he's clueless. Help! Has anyone else experenced this??????? I desperately need direction.
I really feel for you. Back in 1993, my doctor at the time took me off of Valium cold turkey and put me in the hospital for 2 weeks of ECT. I'll never forget being spaced out from the ECT and nervous and uncomfortable as hell from the withdrawal. It took me 5-6 weeks until the extreme anxiety went away. I had been on Valium for 12 years, but only 10mg daily.Michael
Posted by tensor on December 23, 2006, at 11:09:13
In reply to Re: Withdrawal Symtom Relapse from Benzos? » recoverybound, posted by Oppycat on December 22, 2006, at 11:56:07
>Back in 1993, my doctor at the time took me off of Valium cold turkey and put me in the hospital for 2 weeks of ECT
Did he really call himself a doctor?
Posted by jimmygold70 on December 23, 2006, at 16:29:35
In reply to Withdrawal Symtom Relapse from Benzos?, posted by recoverybound on December 14, 2006, at 20:11:33
It can take MONTHS to get off benzos. Maybe a year - depends on you. Certainly not five days. Sue that hospital!
Posted by resident9997 on February 9, 2007, at 9:55:21
In reply to Re: Withdrawal Symtom Relapse from Benzos? » recoverybound, posted by jimmygold70 on December 23, 2006, at 16:29:35
It is taking me ages to get these benzodiazepines out of my system. I was on ativan 8mg and valium 40mg for eight years and I was detoxed, going back up twice, in four-an-a-halve weeks. It was absolute hell. I was "lucky" enough to be in this detox where they kept on pushing and moaning the entire day, so I didn't have any time to sit still and worry about me going crazy. The lack of understanding still gets me raging, there is so little information amongst health practioners about coming off benzo's. You might need to provide them yourselves with the Ashton Manual.
This is the end of the thread.
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