![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 13 to 37 of 37. Go back in thread:
Posted by GuitarManSG on April 19, 2006, at 17:32:12
In reply to Re: remeron withdrawal, posted by GuitarManSG on April 19, 2006, at 17:15:36
I forgot to mention that I was originally diagnosed with PTSD and Panic Disorder with Agorophobia,that was 4 years ago, I find that I cannot hold a job at least for any length of time
I compose music and Ive found that over the passed 4 months I hardly pick up a guitar , I sold a Brand New Alesis Synth, and sold another guitar I owned...and Music used to be my life!!!!
There are certainly some things going on here...
Posted by musky on April 19, 2006, at 22:41:10
In reply to Re: remeron withdrawal, posted by GuitarManSG on April 19, 2006, at 17:15:36
Guitar Man;
I would suggest getting your Remeron Rx. refilled if not by your pdoc,, by just any doctor
Theres nothing written you have to go to your doctor.. ANY Dr. can write a RX... NOt that im for going back on remeron.. but the smarter way would be to taper VERY Slowly.... not cold turkey
I hate that when docs say to just quit... they DONT know... they just dont have time to follow up pts who want to taper, etc.. ITS like coming off heroin or any other street drugs ,, they dont make those people quit cold turkey... and a/d are just as potent.. It even says in the publications ive read that not to quit Remeron suddenly as it can lead to seizures.. I dont want to scare you but these are the facts out there.. EVEN my pharmacist told me the same info...
Im very surprised your doc..didnt know this common sense info!!Sorry, but try this way instead
and only taper 10% every 2months or so... this is how ive done my taper and so far so good...IM down to 2mg from original 45mg... i had terrible wt gain too... ridiculousGood Luck
MuskyIve been on remeron for going on 4 years 30 mg a day at 10 pm, Ive had this horrible "ringing" in my ears for the passed 3 years , the ringing goes 24hrs a day 7 days a week, Ive gained about 40 lbs, after about 3 years the remeron"Quit Working" meaning the Panic Attacks returned, Pdoc upped my dose to 30 mg a day, and gave me
> 1 mg klonopin , I ran out of the remeron 2 days ago, called in my prescription, and had a friend go pick it up for me, lo and behold he didnt show up at 10 pm with it, so I missed a dose
> I woke up this morning without the usual "groginess" and the ringing in my ears was gone!!!!!! I called My Pdoc and told him this and he said "Why dont you just stop taking the remeron then" and just come in for your regular appt on the 26th, he also said "You shouldnt expect to have any withdrawl symptoms, from remeron , just some insomnia" After reading the posts here , I must say Im scared out of my wits
> beings that he told me to go off the meds after
> years of use, (which means that Ill probably never get another prescription out of him for the remeron) which means I wont be able to slowly "Taper" grant you I have the klonopin
> to take the edge off but still Im very very scared.......any help would be appreciated
> Thanks in Advance,
>
> GuitarManSG
Posted by musky on April 19, 2006, at 22:50:22
In reply to Re: remeron withdrawal, posted by GuitarManSG on April 19, 2006, at 17:32:12
> ya, ya , i was told i had panic disorder too... anxiety maybe,, but a disorder,,ya right.. never had problems before with managing anxiety,, until all these pills originally prescribed to me for muscle tension /dizzyness.
anyways.. yes I think there is something going on.
I too love music and sing.. its my passion.
As I have tapered Off the remeron some of my emotions have been coming back.
Otherwise it just "holds one back" somehow..
Sounds to me that the Remeron has done this to you too... just numbing people out..
Believe me.. there are other ways to manage panic.. from cognitive therapy(changing the way yu think), to acupuncture , mediation, good diet, etc, etc.. As I have said in other posts.. I cant stress acupuncture enough for treating panic successfully,, it has helped me tremendouslyI no longer take any thing for anxiety.. Its been 2yrs since I had any ativan... and I feel so much better that way.. I get my times but I can manage on my own now without drugs!!!I havent had any real major panic attacks for months now, and have been working again for 2yrs after not wanting to leave my house either...
Musky
Good luck
Hang in
MuskyI forgot to mention that I was originally diagnosed with PTSD and Panic Disorder with Agorophobia,that was 4 years ago, I find that I cannot hold a job at least for any length of time
> I compose music and Ive found that over the passed 4 months I hardly pick up a guitar , I sold a Brand New Alesis Synth, and sold another guitar I owned...and Music used to be my life!!!!
> There are certainly some things going on here...
Posted by SLS on April 20, 2006, at 7:40:48
In reply to Re: remeron withdrawal, posted by musky on April 19, 2006, at 22:41:10
> Sorry, but try this way instead
and only taper 10% every 2months or so...I should think that one can taper much faster than that. I don't understand why one couldn't reduce the dosage every 2 weeks. That's about how long it takes for receptors to reregulate themselves.
I am not immune to withdrawal syndromes. However, I have been able discontinue Effexor 300mg within two weeks using a flexible-dosing strategy. I have also used this method to discontinue benzodiazepines. I haven't had to discontinue Remeron, so I can't speak with certainty regarding its withdrawal syndrome, but I can't imagine that it would be that much different. It wouldn't really hurt to at least try tapering it more quickly.
- Scott
Posted by Marian29 on April 21, 2006, at 16:47:59
In reply to remeron withdrawal, posted by aleiya on March 9, 2006, at 15:59:21
Hi, I've been on 30 mg Remeron daily for anxiety and depression since November, also take Cymbalta. It's time to try to get off the Remeron because of an intolerable weight gain, despite careful eating and lots of exercise. For those of you who gained weight and then quit Remeron, did you then lose the weight you'd gained? How long did it take?
Posted by jules354 on April 22, 2006, at 7:06:32
In reply to Re: remeron withdrawal, posted by Marian29 on April 21, 2006, at 16:47:59
i lost the weight pretty easily as i tapered off remeron (but my tapering off period was really long, like 2 1/2 years). i'm sure how much you lose and how quickly depends a lot on your diet and exercise routines, but my appetite stabilized almost as soon as i started tapering off and that made it a lot easier to eat right, and i also had more energy in the morning, which made it easier to exercise regularly.
take care,
jules
Posted by Marian29 on April 22, 2006, at 14:50:57
In reply to Re: remeron withdrawal, posted by jules354 on April 22, 2006, at 7:06:32
Thanks for your reply. I'm going to try a pretty quick taper, as I've only been on the med for four months. I'm at half dose right now and the anxiety is bearable, but I do feel as if I have the flu.
We'll see how it goes.
Posted by SandyWeb on April 22, 2006, at 18:15:24
In reply to Re: remeron withdrawal, posted by Marian29 on April 21, 2006, at 16:47:59
Hi Marian,
Just wanted you to know that I quit 45mg (took it for 2 years) 10 days ago. I have to admit that I was using Topamax for about a month and a half before quitting Remeron, and that med caused me to lose a lot of weight very quickly. I had gained over 50 pounds on the Remeron in those 2 years. I had to keep buying new wardrobes!!!!
After quitting the Remeron cold-turkey 10 days ago (at the same time as the Topamax), I still have not gotten my appetite back. I figure my body has enough fat on it still to munch away on that! Lol. I don't have scales, so I haven't a clue how much I weigh.....but I actually fit into my old pants 7/8 (although 9/10 is a bit more comfy at the moment), whereas just recently I was wearing pants in size 14 and almost ready to go to size 16. Yup.....a lot of weight.
So I think, even without the Topamax, the weight would have come off quickly simply because I don't have an appetite. I even forget to eat! I drink coffee, diet Pepsi, and sometimes I'll have a bowl of hot cereal or a roll. I don't feel weak from lack of food....I think there is still enough flab on me that the fat is what is being "eaten". At some point, I fully expect to get a NORMAL appetite back.....not that "Remeron Hunger".
So from my experience, the Topamax may have started the decrease in appetite.....but being off both it and Remeron now for 10 days, I still have that lack of appetite. WooHoo! Just in time for summer! Lol.
I wish you the best.
Sandy
Posted by Marian29 on April 22, 2006, at 19:18:05
In reply to Re: remeron withdrawal » Marian29, posted by SandyWeb on April 22, 2006, at 18:15:24
Thanks for your message, Sandy. And congrats on getting the weight off! I can't wait to get off this med now!
Posted by musky on April 24, 2006, at 0:54:58
In reply to Re: remeron withdrawal, posted by Marian29 on April 21, 2006, at 16:47:59
>Hi Marian
For me the wt gain was ridiculous too. I gained over 40lbs ...never a wt problem before . Funny how common this side effect is, yet the docs dont tell you this when the rx it to you.. it seems..
figures..
anyways so far since tapering I have lost 20 of these pounds... i just hope i can loose the rest after i am completely off. I think i should since i never was over wt before ... always around 107lbs..
Good luck
muskyHi, I've been on 30 mg Remeron daily for anxiety and depression since November, also take Cymbalta. It's time to try to get off the Remeron because of an intolerable weight gain, despite careful eating and lots of exercise. For those of you who gained weight and then quit Remeron, did you then lose the weight you'd gained? How long did it take?
Posted by Jimbobwe64 on July 24, 2006, at 2:18:34
In reply to Re: remeron withdrawal, posted by SLS on March 29, 2006, at 8:49:08
Hello. For a lot of you out there in the same boat as I am. I have several things to say about anti-depressants as I've learned over the past ten years. First of all, anti-depressants work differently for each person concerned. I know some friends that take Wellbutrin and it works fine for them, but for others it's quite useless. I was on Paxil for years and it actually worked. The problem was that as time continued on, the Paxil worked less and less, and the dosage needed to be raised, which happens in a lot of cases, with other types of anti-depressants, too. As far as I'm concerned, though, I personally think in a lot of people such as myself, that all anti-depressants do is mask other problems, such as vitamin deficiencies, and other problems. If the doctor who prescribed these medications, actually took the time to talk to the patient and help him/her to change his diet, then there would be one hell of a lot less people on anti-depressants and a lot more in much, much better health, nutrition-wise as well. Until I learned to change my diet, it was almost impossible for me to get off my anti-depressants, which until this point, I had been using for 11 years. Over the last year I had been taking Remeron in combination with effexor, and at the same time, learning what I could do dietary wise to lessen the anti-depressants, which at this point weren't working again, imagine that. With my changes in diet, and addition of healthy vitamins and nutrients, I've actually gotten to the point where a week ago, I had weaned off both medications, totally I(I had weaned off effexor about six months ago) and took about 2 months to go from full dosage of Remeron down to nothing which I've been doing for a week and a half. Until I got down to nothing, I couldn't believe this, but, I had no symptoms whatsoever, giving me the lowest amount of medications that I've had in 11 years. I never, ever thought that I would get this far, wow, how impressive. Now, since I've been down to no dosage, that's a different story, though. I am actually now having panic attacks and a bit of depression, etc, however, I firmly believe these symptoms are as a result of withdrawal from the Remeron. So, I just have to stick it out and tell myself that these symptoms will pass with time, and to not go back on the meds unless I know these symptoms are much more severe and persistent. So, if anyone would like to know what I've done, dietary wise, I'd be more than happy to chat with you. Keep one thing in mind, though, and that is that I'm definitely not a doctor, and also that different things work for different people. Anyhow, thanks for taking the time to read this, and I look forward to passing my knowledge to you.
PS, I'll also let you know how things are working for me a couple months down the road, too.
Cheers.
Jim
Posted by SLS on July 24, 2006, at 5:53:31
In reply to Re: remeron withdrawal, posted by Jimbobwe64 on July 24, 2006, at 2:18:34
Hi Jim.
Thanks for the opportunity to correspond with you.
What do you feel are the most important components to your nutritional plan?
- Scott
Posted by jules354 on July 24, 2006, at 14:10:34
In reply to Re: remeron withdrawal, posted by Jimbobwe64 on July 24, 2006, at 2:18:34
Following up on Scott's question, can you say what kind of professionals helped you work out a nutritional plan? I've been to see Chinese herbalist/nutritionists and energy healers who have all been very helpful with suggesting diet changes that helped me physically and emotionally, but I'm curious to hear who helped you.
take care,
jules
Posted by jimbobwe64 on July 25, 2006, at 17:16:40
In reply to Re: remeron withdrawal » Jimbobwe64, posted by jules354 on July 24, 2006, at 14:10:34
Hi, Jules and Scott. I recieved my advice from several sources. I spoke to a naturopath and was referred to 5-HTP. This actually worked for quite a while, but, it eventually interfered with the medications that I was taking at the time, including remeron. Now that I've gotten away from the Remeron, I've slowly been improving. In addition, since the Remeron is gone, I continued taking 5-HTP, and found that not only has it stopped interfering with my illness, but, it's actually helping to improve things. I know that you can find 5-HTP in most health stores, but, again, it's very important that you speak to an expert prior to going on something like that. Also, a doctor (believe it or not) recommended to me a product called "spirulina" which comes in a powder or capsule form, that gives you between 5 - 8 servings of vegetables and fruits a day. In addition to that, I try to eat as healthy as possible, which means avoiding refined sugars, packaged products (MSG) and a number of other things. The big one for me was getting rid of Caffeine, which increased my panic attacks and depression immensely. So, it was pretty much a combination of things that over the years has improved my health. If you'd like me to expand on anything that I've discussed here, I'd be more than happy to. Hopefully anything I've said helps you out.
Jim
Posted by jules354 on July 27, 2006, at 16:45:00
In reply to Re: remeron withdrawal, posted by jimbobwe64 on July 25, 2006, at 17:16:40
thanks for sharing your story. i think i'm going to give up caffeine entirely...just as soon as get through my current huge project! :)
i've also cut wheat and dairy out almost entirely (i eat them a few times a month, trying to be better at avoiding) and while that was mainly for physical allergies i think they affect my mood as well.
take care,
jules
Posted by jimbobwe64 on July 27, 2006, at 20:15:51
In reply to Re: remeron withdrawal, posted by jules354 on July 27, 2006, at 16:45:00
You're welcome, Jules.
Very glad to hear that you're going to give caffeine the boot. To help you out, you should know that caffeine is in a lot of things. This will include all forms of chocolate, hot chocolate, tea, some herbal tea, and even decaffeinated coffee and caffeine free cola drinks, too. Did you know that in order for something to be legally called caffeine free or decaffeinated, they only have to be below a certain percentage of caffeine. So, even though it says caffeine free, there's still a minute amount of caffeine in it in a lot of cases. So, what I would suggest is to talk with your doctor about getting some sort of list of items, and that will at least help you a little bit. Otherwise, from my experience, it's very hard to quit caffeine altogether. But, I can tell you it can be done, as I have been totally caffeine free for 10 years now. I went from having extremely severe depression and anxiety to medium/severe. As in a lot of cases, with me, caffeine wasn't my only issue causing my depression, but it was the first thing I quit. And if at first, you have problems quitting, keep trying. For me, before I quit, I actually was having black outs due to caffeine, so I had incentive and quit rather easily. You may or may not be that severe, so, without the incentive, it may be hard to quit. But, like I said, just keep trying. I hope everything works out for you. I'd love to hear how it works for you.
Jim
Posted by jeninco on July 28, 2006, at 7:18:33
In reply to Re: remeron withdrawal, posted by jimbobwe64 on July 27, 2006, at 20:15:51
Hello,
I tapered down remeron as low as 1/16 of a pill every 3 days. I've been completely off for 12 days and the headaches are starting. I can deal with it though-I stopped cold at 3.75 before and made it exactly this far before starting up again. But then I had racing eyes, no sleep, shakes, splitting headache, inability to eat, etc.
So in part, I'm thankful to have only headaches. I am sleeping and that's something. But this totally sucks.
Not sure what I can do to help this part out. Any suggestions?
Posted by jimbobwe64 on July 28, 2006, at 17:38:53
In reply to Re: remeron withdrawal HEAD ACHES, posted by jeninco on July 28, 2006, at 7:18:33
> Hello,
>
> I tapered down remeron as low as 1/16 of a pill every 3 days. I've been completely off for 12 days and the headaches are starting. I can deal with it though-I stopped cold at 3.75 before and made it exactly this far before starting up again. But then I had racing eyes, no sleep, shakes, splitting headache, inability to eat, etc.
>
> So in part, I'm thankful to have only headaches. I am sleeping and that's something. But this totally sucks.
>
> Not sure what I can do to help this part out. Any suggestions?
>To Jeninco:
So, you're on your 12th day, good for you. If all you're having right now is headaches, that's a very good thing.
I'm on my 14th day and I'm not much different, but, I just know that if I stick it out, that things will be good. In 11 years, I've never been as good as I am now, even with the withdrawal from the Remeron. I've felt lethargic since I stopped, but, that seems to be getting less and less. I went out today and had some minor panic attacks, but no depression was involved.
So, if all you're having is headaches, then you must be doing something right. All I can say is to keep plugging along, which is what I'm going to do, and things will eventually get better.
However, if at any point you start to have severe reactions, ie suicidal thoughts, severe depression, etc, don't hesitate to talk to your doctor or a health care giver that you trust. I don't mean necessarily go back on the Remeron or any other anti-depressant, but just give your doctor a shout (again one you trust, not a prescriber).
If you're not having any severe reactions, then just tell yourself that you'll give it one more day and see what happens. In the meantime, try to do whatever you can to relax and/or do things to try to take your mind off things. I have a good feeling that it will pass.
Now, as for suggestions nutrition-wise: I know this may sound crazy, but, go to a health food store (GNC is pretty much as good as any) and purchase some non-fluoridated vitamins. As well try changing your toothpaste to a naturally non-fluoridated one (Tea Tree toothpaste, I find to be a good one). It may or may not work for you, but, for me, it kept the headaches down quite a bit, believe it or not.
Another suggestion for you is: at the end of the day, take an accounting of all the symptoms that you've had each day. At the same time, write down all the good feelings that you've had, as well. Maybe, if you do this it will help, too.
Take care and good luck. I'd love to hear how things work for you, too.
Jim
Posted by jeninco on July 28, 2006, at 21:58:33
In reply to Re: remeron withdrawal HEAD ACHES, posted by jimbobwe64 on July 28, 2006, at 17:38:53
Jim,
What is the link to fluoride? I've never heard anything like that before.
And regarding my doctor-HA! She is an example of the lack of knowledge by doctors who prescribe antidepressants. When I went to her before, she claimed at nearly two weeks there couldn't possibly be any effects still felt. ha. So I'm doing this alone.
I don't anticipate any real problems, other than withdrawal. I was never suicidal/depressed before, just couldn't sleep. I've gotten over the insomnia thing a little at a time for two months. It's just getting this crap out of my system!
I've heard it can regularly linger for 6 weeks easily, and up to 6 months.
No way I'm going back BTW.
Thanks for the suggestions.
Posted by jimbobwe64 on July 28, 2006, at 22:49:45
In reply to Re: remeron withdrawal HEAD ACHES, posted by jeninco on July 28, 2006, at 21:58:33
Jen,
What was your original reason for going on the AD?
And I'm sorry to hear that your doctor was lacking in knowledge or likely in particular, the motivation to find knowledge on the subject. Yet, I'm not surprised as that appears to be very, very common. In fact, most of the success I've achieved against depression, I've done by researching on my own, using internet search engines, etc.
If you type in "Fluoride Poisoning" in a search engine like googol or MSN, you will find tons of different websites on the subject. All I will say is that many of the symptoms of fluoride poisoning are similar to that of depression, panic attacks and a few other maladies.
Now, seeing as you're only having bad headaches at the point where you're free for 12 days, that tells me that you've already done a ton of good things prior to going off. So, very likely the fluoride thing doesn't affect you.
I guess the first question that I should have asked is: What have you done so far, nutritionally to alleviate your depressive symptoms?
Posted by jimbobwe64 on July 30, 2006, at 2:03:33
In reply to Re: remeron withdrawal HEAD ACHES, posted by jeninco on July 28, 2006, at 21:58:33
Hello, everyone. After reading a ton of the E-Mails that you've all kindly shared on here, I'm realizing that I know absolutely nothing about Remeron and it's withdrawal, or at least nowhere near what a lot of you know.
The last day and a half, it seems that I've kind of hit a bit of a wall, as to my own withdrawal. I'm now in my 16th day and the depression and weepiness has kicked in for the whole time pretty much, now. I'm having doubts on whether the symptoms I'm having are a result of the remeron withdrawal or I'm reverting back to my original anxiety and depression. Deep down, I think that I'm on the right track, but because of the symptoms I'm having, I'm really having doubts. I haven't reverted to the paranoia that I suffered originally 11 years ago when I first started on anti-depressants (thank god) and the depression doesn't seem as bad either, but still very, very daunting. Also, I've been itching like crazy, too, very freaking annoying. I'm going off on a week long trip tomorrow to see some friends and I'm hoping that no serious symptoms occur where I might give up and go back on the Remeron.
If Remeron is the culprit of these nasty symptoms, then I'm totally beginning to change my mind about how productive it and a lot of other Anti-depressants really are. In fact, it's starting to make me very mad.
I've read that some doctors actually have the audacity to prescribe this medication for lack of sleep?????? What the hell is up with that?????? That, my friends is a total and utter crime. Totally disgusting that doctors aren't better educated and/or trained on this subject.
What I also find maddening is that physician's don't have a test to decide whether or not a patient should have a particular type of medication or not. A lot of money spent on development of new drugs but none spent on the proper usage thereof, wow.
Anyhow, I apologize for ranting, but, as a lot of you can relate (unfortunately), I'm pissed off, upset, very frustrated, and damned tired.
What I will say before I close is that it's comforting to know that you all are out there to offer support.
Thank you all and wish me well, please. I think I'm going to need it.
Jim
Posted by jules354 on July 31, 2006, at 18:43:38
In reply to Re: remeron withdrawal HEAD ACHES, posted by jimbobwe64 on July 30, 2006, at 2:03:33
Hi Jim,
A lot of us experienced those side effects from the w/d, as well as worrying how much of it was w/d and when it might be resurgence of depression and anxiety. My advice is to put the people in your support system on alert: if they notice you behaving the ways you did when you were depressed, check in with you about it. It helps to have reality checks in general, too, especially when some of the symptoms (itching, for example) make you feel like you're losing it! Keeping a symptoms journal/log can be helpful, too.
It's really shocking to me how little we and our doctors know about withdrawal.
take care,
jules
Posted by jimbobwe64 on August 1, 2006, at 18:34:52
In reply to Re: remeron withdrawal HEAD ACHES » jimbobwe64, posted by jules354 on July 31, 2006, at 18:43:38
Hey, Jules. Thanks much for the support. I don't know what I've done, honestly, but the last couple of days have been pretty good and the symptoms seem to be going down. But, I've got a feeling that I'm in for a bit more, so, I'll be on the look for it. What a miserable drug, though. I am definitely going to keep plugging along though. And it's very nice to know that people on here are very supportive and know what I'm going through. So, thanks again, take care and hopefully I'll have some more good news down the road.
Cheers.
Jim
> Hi Jim,
>
> A lot of us experienced those side effects from the w/d, as well as worrying how much of it was w/d and when it might be resurgence of depression and anxiety. My advice is to put the people in your support system on alert: if they notice you behaving the ways you did when you were depressed, check in with you about it. It helps to have reality checks in general, too, especially when some of the symptoms (itching, for example) make you feel like you're losing it! Keeping a symptoms journal/log can be helpful, too.
>
> It's really shocking to me how little we and our doctors know about withdrawal.
>
> take care,
> jules
Posted by jimbobwe64 on August 7, 2006, at 13:17:10
In reply to remeron withdrawal, posted by aleiya on March 9, 2006, at 15:59:21
Hello, everyone. Just thought I'd give a follow up on how I'm doing. I'm now on day 25 of no AD's whatsoever. As the days go by, I definitely think I'm on the right track, but, it most certainly hasn't been easy. For the last week, up until yesterday, I actually have started to feel like my old self, for the most part (just a few headaches, lots of itching, and the usual symptoms that mostly everyone has spoken about on here). Now the last day, I've felt depressed, but, it wasn't as severe and pronounced as the depression I went through a week ago, so, I'm obviously seeing improvement, but, like a lot of you say, It's going to take some time, before I'm scott free.
I have one question for any of you out there:
While on AD's, have any of you noticed that Alcohol interferes with the AD, to the point that you actually go through withdrawal from the AD for several days, perhaps even weeks. Now, I don't consider myself an alcoholic, as when I was drinking, I only drank once or twice a month, and in fact, I've actually abstained totally for the last year, because of it's interaction with AD's, in my case. And if this is so, do any of you know if this reaction goes away with the removal of the AD's from your system?
I'll quit drinking alcohol altogether if I have to, but, if I don't have to, I'd rather not, because it's the social thing that I could use once in a while for my sanity. I don't know if a lot of you are the same, but, I've found that the AD was worse than the actual depression for making a person more irritable, and withdrawn (the longer you use the AD that is)
So, I'm actually retiring from the military shortly after 22 years (due to my medical condition, imagine that :)) If you think doctors in general are bad, you should see the quacks we have in the military, lol.
All I'll say is that because my doctors prescribed AD's rather than talk to me about healthy alternatives, I've literally been through hell (off and on) over the past 11 years.
I started on AD's originally, because I developed extremely bad panic attacks and even blackouts from caffeine, and when I stopped all caffeine altogether, I went through extreme withdrawal. Because, at the time, I was in an extreme brain fog and wasn't able to think properly, I took the doctor's advice to go on the Anti-Depressant in order to counteract the withdrawal. The next thing I know, after trying to get off the AD several times unsuccessfully, the psychiatrist is telling me that I likely have to stay on that AD for life. That, I had resigned myself to for almost 8 years. Eventually, the AD (Paxil) stopped working (if you could call what I was going through at the time, because of the paxil, working). And subsequently, the dosage was raised, until the next thing the maximum dosage was achieved. Every time the dose was raised, I got even more irritable and upset when the previous dosage stopped working. I now know that this wasn't because of my illness, but due to the medications that I was on. About 3 years ago, I went from the maximum dosage of Paxil, almost directly to the maximum dosage of Effexor (why the doctor put me on another medication in the same class of SSRI's as Paxil, I have no idea)
The effects of Effexor deteriorated pretty fast, however, it was at this point that I started to do things on my own to get healthy. I started trying herbal AD's that were prescribed by a naturopath that I was seeing. These worked really great for awhile, but, unfortunately, almost exactly like alcohol, they eventually interfered with the effects of the AD and I had to stop them after a while. This happened with 5-HTP and St John's Wort. Over the years I've quit smoking (now 5 years free, woohoo), stopped eating anything with MSG, reduced my heavy protein intake, reduced my refined sugar intake as well. As a result, I've improved quite a bit, but, unfortunately, because of the AD's (now remeron for over a year), I wasn't able to get exactly where I should be.
I know this may sound totally crazy, because I haven't seen any of you write about this at all, but, the last clue of the puzzle for me was alleviating fluoride.
First of all I noticed that after literally every time I brushed my teeth, within an hour or two, my symptoms increased 10 fold. (I know, very weird). For the longest time, I couldn't explain it.
I happened to be on a naturopathic website trying to find the answer, and it mentioned about how fluoride poisoning could possibly bring on depressive and anxietal symptoms.
So, just on the off chance, I changed my toothpaste to a natural non-fluoridated one, and after about a week, I didn't have those symptoms at all, whatsoever.
In normal tap water (if your municipality uses fluoride), there are approximately 10 parts per million (PPM). In fluoridated toothpaste, there are 1000 PPM. Even in bottled water, there is still between 0.1 to 2.0 PPM. As well, believe it or not, in most pharmaceuticals, including Anti-Depressants and even vitamins, they add fluoride.
Now the theory is that if you have a poor diet, then you have a lack of healthy minerals in your system. These are the minerals that act favourably on things like Serotonin and Noripenephrine, etc. Add excess fluoride to the equation, and it leaches a lot of the remainder of these minerals out of your system, thereby adding greatly to a person's anxiety and/or depression.
Now, like I said I'm not a doctor and can't tell any of you that fluoride is the answer for you. For all I know this could be a placebo effect for me, but, I would be terribly remiss if I didn't mention it to you. I weaned from maximum dosage of Remeron to nothing in around 2 months with very, very minor symptoms (and they were very tolerable), so something is obviously working for me.
But, basically, what it comes down to (putting fluoride aside) is detoxifying your system from all excess toxins (mercury, iron, lead, etc). Having a diet high in vegetables and fruits (instead of high in refined sugars, etc) is definitely paramount to cleansing these toxins out of your system. Now, if you're not getting as many vegetables and fruits that you need, there are natural supplements that you can take that will help, and you can find these in any health or natural stores, just ask either your naturopathic or homeopathic doc. Also, these stores only have fluoride free supplements, so maybe that can tell you something.
So, as you can tell, I'm starting to feel a bit better, as I'm a little bit "chatty" today, lol.
Anyhow, if someone could kindly answer my "alcohol" question it would be greatly appreciated. In the mean time, I wish you all great success and hopefully minimal suffering in your quest for health. It most certainly is a long road, but, I think it can be achieved with anyone.
Thanks again for all your words on here.
Cheers.
Jim
Posted by tiredofpanic on August 11, 2006, at 9:55:03
In reply to Re: remeron withdrawal, posted by Jimbobwe64 on July 24, 2006, at 2:18:34
Hi again, I am havnig severe neck and upper back pain, has anyone else experienced this? It is getting to the point that I cannot turn my head very well.
This is the end of the thread.
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