![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 221 to 245 of 696. Go back in thread:
Posted by SLS on May 26, 2006, at 10:24:09
In reply to Re: Cymbalta withdrawal - Publicity » Avalon, posted by secretme on May 26, 2006, at 9:27:08
Hi.
Do you think that publicity and more visible caution statements are enough, or would you like to see Cymbalta removed from the market?
- Scott
Posted by gapsgal on May 26, 2006, at 10:36:12
In reply to Re: Cymbalta withdrawal - Publicity, posted by SLS on May 26, 2006, at 10:24:09
I just fired this letter off to my local paper...
The anti-depressant age...
It seems that we now live in an anti-depressant world, me included. The problem is that not enough people including health-care providers are up-to-snuff on these various drugs. Two in particular (that seem to be given like candy around here) are Effexor and Cymbalta. The benefits of taking these drugs seems wonderful...that is until you have to quit taking them. Then your nightmare will begin or at least millions which can be heard on many online forums, articles and books. In fact I purchased a book written by a medical doctor telling about anti-depressants and withdrawal syndromes.
I have taken both of the above named drugs and in fact I am still taking Cymbalta, not because I want to mind you, but because the withdrawal is so devastating that I could not possibly function in daily life while enduring it. Even the smallest of tapers produces withdrawals and it could take months to withdraw without incident. For some reason unknown to me and so many others is that our physicians have no idea of this or why we are experiencing this, hello short half-life. Perhaps they believe the drug reps, after all would they lie just to sell their product and protect their company...never...yeah right. But they seem to take their word for this and dispense it like sweet-tarts.
In fact I have been to more than one doctor to inquire about this withdrawal night mare and they had no idea that this produced such bad withdrawals. I fully understand why drug addicts do the things that they do to get “their fix” now. The sad thing is that we are given no warning about how it may be when we can finally be rid of the poison (yes I consider it poison).
The drug companies should offer a taper program and the doctors should be more informed on this issue. This is just a partial list of complaints with these drugs, not to mention the damage that can be caused by them to for instance your liver and no one knows the long-term effects this could have.
The fact is no one could possibly know how this effects a person or their lives unless they themselves have been in the load baring shoes. I am sure there a few people who do not experience such harsh withdrawals, and who knows why and who cares...least of all those of us that do. The fact is that millions are experiencing this and it is going on and no one cares and doctors look at you as if you are over-reacting...listen doctors take this for about a year or two yourselves and then try discontinuing.
The point is it is not worth it, and doctors should strongly caution and warn patients of the possibility of these happenings. They should not dispense it so readily and should always monitor their patients withdrawal period more closely. The withdrawal schedules I was given by one of my doctors was laughable.
If this keeps just one person from going through the atrocity of withdrawal from these drugs then it has been worth it to put my name out there for scrutiny.
Donna
> Hi.
>
> Do you think that publicity and more visible caution statements are enough, or would you like to see Cymbalta removed from the market?
>
>
> - Scott
Posted by Jaspar on May 26, 2006, at 10:58:25
In reply to Re: Cymbalta withdrawal - Publicity, posted by SLS on May 26, 2006, at 10:24:09
> Do you think that publicity and more visible caution statements are enough,
> or would you like to see Cymbalta removed from the market?
> - ScottI would NOT like to see Cymbalta removed from the market. I LIKE there being various meds to choose from because for SOME people, THIS IS the "RIGHT" med for THEM. There are some people who are desperate and have tried everything else. In fact, I know somebody with a heart condition about to go on it, and she understands the risks. But if it works for her she might NEVER go off it during the remainder of her life, and I am praying that THIS drug will be what she needs. She has suffered a lot.
No - don't throw the baby out with the bath water.
What is needed is TESTING to give KNOWLEDGE - BEFORE starting the med. We need to know who should NOT take this drug.
-Jaspar
Posted by secretme on May 26, 2006, at 12:41:10
In reply to Re: Cymbalta withdrawal - Publicity, posted by SLS on May 26, 2006, at 10:24:09
Cymbalta needs to be taken off the market. The FDA waited to take Vioxx off the market until patients were being hit with heart conditions. There may even have been some deaths. For some reason, people do not consider anti-depressants as "dangerous" because science knows so much less about how the brain works than the heart or kidneys or lungs. So really, they have no firm data as to why they work or what the long-term effects will be. (Said to my son by the psychiatrist: "we don't know why Cymbalta helps people with OCD, but it does." -- over my dead body!)
I worked for the WSJ for 15 years. Before sending any letters or persuasive information for printing, it's a good idea to make lists of side effects and withdrawal symptoms and why we believe this medication should be taken off the market. The information has to be sucsinct and addressed to a reporter who will follow it through. This will take a few telephone calls to The Times or any local newspaper. Once you have a name, call the reporter to find out if he/she is interested in the information. Then don't let up on them. There are a bunch of us here who will be good sources of information and corroboration for the demonic Cymbalta problems. When I took this medication, I was sick while on it. My psychiatrist did everything to convince me I needed a gastroenterologist or cardiologist or endocrinologist, etc., to help me with my complaints; they were not, he said, related to Cymbalta. He never even took my blood pressure during those 15 minute office visits, and my BP continued to go up despite taking three BP medications. Cymbalta did nothing for me but make me sick while I was on it and worse when I tried to get off it. My psychiatrist's explanation just encouraged me to allow him to INCREASE the dose of this terrible stuff. Was I less depressed while taking Cymbalta? I had too many other physical problems to even think about depression. It reminds me of the old gag line, "other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?" Time to get rid of this drug and hold the pharmaceutical company AND THE FDA accountable for their actions. Anyone read Mother Jones or even Newsweek? Find out how the pharmaceutical companies only show the positive clinical trials to the FDA -- believe it or not, there is legislation that recently passed FORCING these bums to show the results of ALL CLINICAL TRIALS, not just the ones that make their medication look good for marketing.
secretme
Posted by gapsgal on May 26, 2006, at 13:32:30
In reply to Re: Cymbalta withdrawal - Publicity » SLS, posted by secretme on May 26, 2006, at 12:41:10
I am with you all the way! I have sent in to several different papers in my state and plan to go further...I have also reported this to the FDA. They should not be allowed to do this to people and then pretend they didnt.
> Cymbalta needs to be taken off the market. The FDA waited to take Vioxx off the market until patients were being hit with heart conditions. There may even have been some deaths. For some reason, people do not consider anti-depressants as "dangerous" because science knows so much less about how the brain works than the heart or kidneys or lungs. So really, they have no firm data as to why they work or what the long-term effects will be. (Said to my son by the psychiatrist: "we don't know why Cymbalta helps people with OCD, but it does." -- over my dead body!)
>
> I worked for the WSJ for 15 years. Before sending any letters or persuasive information for printing, it's a good idea to make lists of side effects and withdrawal symptoms and why we believe this medication should be taken off the market. The information has to be sucsinct and addressed to a reporter who will follow it through. This will take a few telephone calls to The Times or any local newspaper. Once you have a name, call the reporter to find out if he/she is interested in the information. Then don't let up on them. There are a bunch of us here who will be good sources of information and corroboration for the demonic Cymbalta problems. When I took this medication, I was sick while on it. My psychiatrist did everything to convince me I needed a gastroenterologist or cardiologist or endocrinologist, etc., to help me with my complaints; they were not, he said, related to Cymbalta. He never even took my blood pressure during those 15 minute office visits, and my BP continued to go up despite taking three BP medications. Cymbalta did nothing for me but make me sick while I was on it and worse when I tried to get off it. My psychiatrist's explanation just encouraged me to allow him to INCREASE the dose of this terrible stuff. Was I less depressed while taking Cymbalta? I had too many other physical problems to even think about depression. It reminds me of the old gag line, "other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?" Time to get rid of this drug and hold the pharmaceutical company AND THE FDA accountable for their actions. Anyone read Mother Jones or even Newsweek? Find out how the pharmaceutical companies only show the positive clinical trials to the FDA -- believe it or not, there is legislation that recently passed FORCING these bums to show the results of ALL CLINICAL TRIALS, not just the ones that make their medication look good for marketing.
>
> secretme
Posted by gapsgal on May 26, 2006, at 14:40:14
In reply to Re: Cymbalta withdrawal - Publicity » SLS, posted by secretme on May 26, 2006, at 12:41:10
FDA's Consumer Complaint Coordinators
To report adverse reactions or other problems with FDA-regulated products, contact the FDA district office consumer complaint coordinator for your geographic area. If you require the use of a Relay Service, please call the Federal Relay Services (1-800-877-8339). This is a toll free relay service to call Federal agencies from TTY devices.
Alabama--(615) 781-5385, ext. 123
Alaska--(425) 483-4949
Arizona--(949) 608-3530
Arkansas--(214) 253-5200, ext. 5233
California (Northern)--(510) 337-6741
California (Southern)--(949) 608-3530
Colorado--(303) 236-3044
Connecticut--(781) 596-7700
Delaware--(215) 597-9064
District of Columbia--(410) 779-5713
Florida -- (866) 337-6272
Georgia--(404) 253-1169
Hawaii--(510) 337-6741
Idaho--(425) 483-4949
Illinois--(312) 353-7840
Indiana--(313) 393-8100
Iowa--(913) 752-2440
Kansas--(913) 752-2440
Kentucky--(513) 679-2700, ext. 124
Louisiana--504-253-4511
Maine--(781) 596-7700
Maryland--(410) 779-5713
Massachusetts--(781) 596-7700
Michigan--(313) 393-8100
Minnesota--(612) 758-7221
Mississippi--504-253-4511
Missouri--(913) 752-2440
Montana--(425) 483-4949
Nebraska--(913) 752-2440
Nevada--(510) 337-6741
New Hampshire--(781) 596-7700
New Jersey--(973) 526-6017
New Mexico--(303) 236-3044
New York (Northern)--(716) 551-4461, ext. 3171
New York (Southern)--(718) 340-7000, ext. 5588
North Carolina--(404) 253-1169
North Dakota--(612) 758-7221
Ohio--(513) 679-2700, ext. 124
Oklahoma--(214) 253-5200, ext. 5233
Oregon--(425) 483-4949
Pennsylvania--(215) 597-9064
Rhode Island--(781) 596-7700
South Carolina--(404) 253-1169
South Dakota--(612) 758-7221
Tennessee--(615) 781-5380, ext. 123
Texas--(214) 253-5200 ext. 5233
Utah--(303) 236-3044
Vermont--(781) 596-7700
Virginia--(410) 779-5713
Washington--(425) 483-4949
West Virginia--(410) 779-5713
Wisconsin--(612) 758-7221
Wyoming--(303) 236-3044
Puerto Rico, U.S. Virgin Islands--(787) 474-9502
Posted by Nick K. on May 26, 2006, at 17:43:02
In reply to Re: Cymbalta withdrawal - Publicity some phone #'s, posted by gapsgal on May 26, 2006, at 14:40:14
This is great. I'm glad people are motivated to take action to make their experience and opinion known regarding this issue. I am one of these people and I am working on my own contribution to this effort as well. Thanks to gapsgal and secretme especially, for standing out.
I'd like to deliver my 2 cents:
I have been relatively naive/ignorant in terms of business and marketing, until recently. I am in the process of forming an e-commerce supplement/herbal retail endeavor, and consequently, I have been learning about pharmaceutical marketing and, unfortunately, about the desperate greed, dishonesty, and deception involved in most of these companies trying to push their products for sale to the public as quickly as possible. Practices involving manipulated test results and "financially influenced" research scientists are all too common.
To my dismay, and from a profit perspective, it has become painfully obvious that the anti-depressant industry, especially as of recently (effexor/cymbalta), is essentially an extremely advanced and intelligent scheme designed to "hook" as many people as possible into paying (or having insurance companies pay) in many cases $200 or more per month for medication that costs, at the most, a dollar or two to manufacture. The difficulties of withdrawal are of benefit to these companies (and perhaps an intentional side-effect), because it means the customer cannot comfortably abstain from intake, therefore they continue to pay (directly or indirectly) for the product and billion dollar profits continue to rise. In theory, the invariable side-effect of significantly decreased libido and sex drive could also be an intentional side-effect, with the hopes that those suffering from depression won't be compelled to reproduce, thus promoting "natural selection".Many of us are being taken advantage of in horrible ways, and what's more is that we don't even realize it.
Posted by SLS on May 26, 2006, at 18:38:40
In reply to Re: Cymbalta withdrawal - Publicity, posted by Jaspar on May 26, 2006, at 10:58:25
> > Do you think that publicity and more visible caution statements are enough,
> > or would you like to see Cymbalta removed from the market?> I would NOT like to see Cymbalta removed from the market. I LIKE there being various meds to choose from because for SOME people, THIS IS the "RIGHT" med for THEM.
I agree with you.
It is unfortunate that we don't yet have drugs that will successfully treat everyone. Until there are better drugs, we need all the help we can get.
The problem here seems to be one of informed consent. People are very angry that they were not told there were withdrawal effects from discontinuing antidepressant medication. People want someone to blame. Blame the drug? The drug is what it is.
We accept that drugs for other illnesses have significant health risks involved with their administration. Why should depression be treated differently?
- Scott
Posted by secretme on May 26, 2006, at 19:08:24
In reply to Re: Cymbalta withdrawal - Publicity, posted by SLS on May 26, 2006, at 18:38:40
I don't get it: how many SSRIs are necessary in the marketplace? From what I have learned about the medications I have taken in the past 12 years, most of them do the same thing (whatever that is). None of them worked for me, so basically, they were all the same: ineffective. Cymbalta is a different story. IT IS EXTREMELY DANGEROUS!
If you had any idea of what the pharmaceutical lobby in this country does to legislation, our healthcare system, Medicare benefits and the ability to put medications on the market that are not safe, you would not agree that all these formulations are necessary. After all, who is paying for this stuff? We (and our loathesome insurance companies) are forking over billions for these medications which, in many cases, did not do anything more than a placebo. These stastics are available in the Journal of American Medicine and other scholarly publications. My psychiatrist did not deny this statistic, but he also did not say why, then, depression alone required a medication that was only 10% more effective than a water pill.
As I take medicine for cancer, high BP and cholesterol, I am grateful for those that have helped me. That doesn't mean we should give the industry a blank check to kill us!
secretme
Posted by SLS on May 26, 2006, at 20:21:02
In reply to Re: Cymbalta withdrawal - Publicity » SLS, posted by secretme on May 26, 2006, at 19:08:24
> I don't get it: how many SSRIs are necessary in the marketplace?
As many as it takes, I guess.
> From what I have learned about the medications I have taken in the past 12 years, most of them do the same thing (whatever that is).
What I have learned is that two people can respond quite disparately to the same drug.
> None of them worked for me, so basically, they were all the same: ineffective.
This might be true for you, but I don't think you can generalize your personal experiences to the rest of the population. These drugs are not all the same. I respond differently to different SRIs. I have different side effects from different SRIs. I have seen that my reactions to these drugs can be different from those of others. These are common scenarios. I believe these drugs are different enough to justify their continued availability.
What makes Cymbalta extremely dangerous?
- Scott
Posted by secretme on May 26, 2006, at 20:54:06
In reply to Re: Cymbalta withdrawal - Publicity » secretme, posted by SLS on May 26, 2006, at 20:21:02
I don't think I'm the only one who believes Cymbalta is extremely dangerous. When my own family thought I was close to a serious medical emergency due to the withdrawal from this medication, then it is extremely dangerous. When my oncologist said to stop taking Cymbalta as soon as possible, she believed it was dangerous. There are also a host of people who have shared their stories on this website, and if you don't see any danger in what they have said about their illnesses, then there is no reason for you to stop taking Cymbalta. There are plenty of people who thought they could not live without Vioxx; they would still take it if it were available. Then why shouldn't the FDA allow them to take it? Sorry to disagree with you, but we have all been privvy to many horrific accounts from people who are desperate for help to get off Cymbalta without losing their jobs or harming themselves. If this doesn't signal danger, then this website doesn't need to exist. SSRIs serve a purpose; my son takes one for OCD. If Cymbalta were never developed, I doubt there would be a panic among people who need SSRIs for depression and other biochemical disorders.
secretme
Posted by SLS on May 26, 2006, at 21:31:02
In reply to Re: Cymbalta withdrawal - Publicity » SLS, posted by secretme on May 26, 2006, at 20:54:06
> I don't think I'm the only one who believes Cymbalta is extremely dangerous.
I still don't know in what way you think Cymbalta is extremely dangerous.
I am concerned that Cymbalta might not remain available for those whom it helps. For some people, it is the only drug that does.
- Scott
Posted by musky on May 26, 2006, at 23:59:29
In reply to Re: Cymbalta withdrawal - Publicity » secretme, posted by SLS on May 26, 2006, at 20:21:02
> > Hey secretme:
dont really read these posts but this one got my attention... I totally agree with what you are saying about cymbalta and other drugs period.. There are sooo many drugs out there that all do the same thing... NOTHING .... if they were soooo helpful how come so many people are trying desperately to come off?? and also sooo many people that keep taking drug after drug and mixing and matching, therefore this obviously PROVES that the drug is NOT working!
I have just come off Remeron (an a/d) and I tell u I am DETERMINED to stay off!!! all these meds have done nothing for me but screwed with my brain.
The real key is your own mind and belief of yourself... I dont by what other posts are saying about every person is different ,, i mean yes they are but we all have the SAME receptors in the brain that these drugs screw up!! The very fact that there are posts such as these prove again that more people are NOT happy with their meds than people that are!!! And even if you run across someone who is on an a/d or whatever and they 'claim" they feel good,,,its just them telling themselves they are.... ask them to honestly tell lyou how they really feel physically or sexually ,,, i bet you will get a different answer...musky
I don't get it: how many SSRIs are necessary in the marketplace?
>
> As many as it takes, I guess.
>
> > From what I have learned about the medications I have taken in the past 12 years, most of them do the same thing (whatever that is).
>
> What I have learned is that two people can respond quite disparately to the same drug.
>
> > None of them worked for me, so basically, they were all the same: ineffective.
>
> This might be true for you, but I don't think you can generalize your personal experiences to the rest of the population. These drugs are not all the same. I respond differently to different SRIs. I have different side effects from different SRIs. I have seen that my reactions to these drugs can be different from those of others. These are common scenarios. I believe these drugs are different enough to justify their continued availability.
>
> What makes Cymbalta extremely dangerous?
>
>
> - Scott
Posted by gapsgal on May 27, 2006, at 9:43:36
In reply to Re: Cymbalta withdrawal - Publicity » secretme, posted by SLS on May 26, 2006, at 21:31:02
Actually the effects it could produce on the liver are even noted in the eli lilly literature on the fda site.
Everyone should read this book "The Anti-Depressant Solution" I took it to my doctor with me actually.
Consider these things that are happening to us when we withdraw, the auditory and sensory things not to mention the physcial things. That tells us that it is doing something to our brain, and no one knows if there are any long-term side effects from these things occuring. The doctors themselves say they dont know just how this helps it just does...well if that is the case then there should be lots more research on this.
When addicts withdraw they have similiar symptoms and these are known to cause long-term damage to the brain...anything that alters the brains way of working can permanently change things in the brain.
Consider someone who is addicted to pain medicine, why? Because it has changed the way their brain works and chances are the change is permanent.
Donna
> > I don't think I'm the only one who believes Cymbalta is extremely dangerous.
>
> I still don't know in what way you think Cymbalta is extremely dangerous.
>
> I am concerned that Cymbalta might not remain available for those whom it helps. For some people, it is the only drug that does.
>
>
> - Scott
Posted by gapsgal on May 27, 2006, at 9:50:04
In reply to Re: Cymbalta withdrawal - Publicity, posted by SLS on May 26, 2006, at 18:38:40
It may be true that the drug is ultimately to blame, however as a physcian it is their duty to do no harm...staying informed and abreast of these things should be of most importance to helping their patients. Yet many of them have no clue, they believe what the drug reps say and as we all know drug reps would never lie...lol
The point is that not enough research was done by the FDA prior to allowing this drug on the market. If this drug is known (and we all know it is) to cause these horrible withdrawal effects then we should have been told bottom line! Further these symptoms need to be researched for possible long-term damage to the brain.
Are you a drug rep, or happen to be a doctor yourself?
> > > Do you think that publicity and more visible caution statements are enough,
> > > or would you like to see Cymbalta removed from the market?
>
> > I would NOT like to see Cymbalta removed from the market. I LIKE there being various meds to choose from because for SOME people, THIS IS the "RIGHT" med for THEM.
>
> I agree with you.
>
> It is unfortunate that we don't yet have drugs that will successfully treat everyone. Until there are better drugs, we need all the help we can get.
>
> The problem here seems to be one of informed consent. People are very angry that they were not told there were withdrawal effects from discontinuing antidepressant medication. People want someone to blame. Blame the drug? The drug is what it is.
>
> We accept that drugs for other illnesses have significant health risks involved with their administration. Why should depression be treated differently?
>
>
> - Scott
Posted by gapsgal on May 27, 2006, at 9:55:29
In reply to Re: Cymbalta withdrawal - Publicity some phone #'s, posted by Nick K. on May 26, 2006, at 17:43:02
Nick,
I plan to push this until someone that can change things listens. They should at the very least investigate this issue and everyone should also contact their state rep to cause some bustle there. I am in total agreement with you about the conspiracy of these drug giants. People can believe what they want, but in big business it is cut-throat and they will do whatever can be done to earn that dollar.
Until someone listens or a whistle-blower steps forward it will always be this way. Every part of our society is set up this way and no matter what anyone wants to believe that is the truth, from education, government and private business.
I have seen this in action behind the scenes.
> This is great. I'm glad people are motivated to take action to make their experience and opinion known regarding this issue. I am one of these people and I am working on my own contribution to this effort as well. Thanks to gapsgal and secretme especially, for standing out.
>
> I'd like to deliver my 2 cents:
> I have been relatively naive/ignorant in terms of business and marketing, until recently. I am in the process of forming an e-commerce supplement/herbal retail endeavor, and consequently, I have been learning about pharmaceutical marketing and, unfortunately, about the desperate greed, dishonesty, and deception involved in most of these companies trying to push their products for sale to the public as quickly as possible. Practices involving manipulated test results and "financially influenced" research scientists are all too common.
> To my dismay, and from a profit perspective, it has become painfully obvious that the anti-depressant industry, especially as of recently (effexor/cymbalta), is essentially an extremely advanced and intelligent scheme designed to "hook" as many people as possible into paying (or having insurance companies pay) in many cases $200 or more per month for medication that costs, at the most, a dollar or two to manufacture. The difficulties of withdrawal are of benefit to these companies (and perhaps an intentional side-effect), because it means the customer cannot comfortably abstain from intake, therefore they continue to pay (directly or indirectly) for the product and billion dollar profits continue to rise. In theory, the invariable side-effect of significantly decreased libido and sex drive could also be an intentional side-effect, with the hopes that those suffering from depression won't be compelled to reproduce, thus promoting "natural selection".
>
> Many of us are being taken advantage of in horrible ways, and what's more is that we don't even realize it.
>
>
Posted by secretme on May 27, 2006, at 9:55:38
In reply to Re: Cymbalta withdrawal - Publicity » secretme, posted by SLS on May 26, 2006, at 21:31:02
May I ask why you are on this website? Obviously you know why all the people posting here are looking for help to get off Cymbalta. I answered why I believe Cymbalta is an extremely dangerous medication, yet you still ask the same question.
Prior to my breast cancer treatments, I was an employee benefits consultant. I fought like hell for my clients, especially against insurance and pharmaceutical companies. May I ask, without knowing who you are, what you do for a living?
If you haven't gleaned from all the postings that Cymbalta is a dangerous drug (I have been on this website since Christmas of 2005), then you are not reading what people have to say.
Again, if you feel that this drug is good for you, go ahead and take it. The people on this website are trying to get off it!!!!! I feel you are defending these medications a bit more strenuously than anyone else who has come to this website for help.
Do we need as many SSRIs "as it takes" to be well? Sounds like Eli Lilly talking.
I won't be around for a few weeks to get your answer, but maybe some of the other victims can question you. Not sure of your motives or agenda. I have been Cymbalta free and symptom free since the end of March 2006. If I can help anyone who wants to get off this medication, then I'll try. Of course, it's all based on my personal experiences. And my experiences seem to be shared by a lot of people here.
secretme
Posted by SLS on May 27, 2006, at 11:13:26
In reply to Re: Cymbalta withdrawal - Publicity » SLS, posted by secretme on May 27, 2006, at 9:55:38
> May I ask why you are on this website?
Because I can.
> Obviously you know why all the people posting here are looking for help to get off Cymbalta.
Along with many other drugs.
> I answered why I believe Cymbalta is an extremely dangerous medication,
I disagree. I do not think you have answered the question at all. It is a simple one. Perhaps you feel Cymbalta is dangerous because of the withdrawal effects it is known to sometimes precipitate upon its discontinuation. I can't tell from your posts what your reason is.
Many different drugs fall into this category, not just psychotropics.
> Prior to my breast cancer treatments, I was an employee benefits consultant. I fought like hell for my clients, especially against insurance and pharmaceutical companies. May I ask, without knowing who you are, what you do for a living?
You can ask. However, I choose not to answer at this time as it is not at all relevant to this thread. Things are the way they are whether I am a psychopharmacologist or a car salesman.
> If you haven't gleaned from all the postings that Cymbalta is a dangerous drug (I have been on this website since Christmas of 2005), then you are not reading what people have to say.
I am reading that people are having a difficult time discontinuing Cymbalta because of the precipitation of a withdrawal syndrome. What else is there? Side effects? I still don't understand what makes Cymbalta dangerous.
> Again, if you feel that this drug is good for you, go ahead and take it.
That's just the point. I want Cymbalta to remain available to me. I do not think it is a dangerous drug just because it produces a withdrawal syndrome upon its discontinuation. Tapering a medication in order to discontinue it is as important as titrating it in order to start it. I'm sorry that you had such a tough time with it. There are other strategies available to mitigate the withdrawal symptoms that occur in some people. Some people suffer no withdrawal symptoms at all. Those that do are attracted to this site, particularly this board. It is difficult to evaluate the occurrence of this phenomenon based on the posts here because the population here is so skewed towards people who have had difficulties with it.
> The people on this website are trying to get off it!!!!! I feel you are defending these medications a bit more strenuously than anyone else who has come to this website for help.
Someone has to.
> Do we need as many SSRIs "as it takes" to be well?
One is satisfactory as long as it gets everyone well. However, this is not yet the case.
> Sounds like Eli Lilly talking.
No. Just me.
> I won't be around for a few weeks to get your answer,
Take your time. I've been around here for over 6 years. I don't plan on going anywhere. Of course, I might not be motivated to respond to further posts along this thread.
> Not sure of your motives or agenda.
Again, I don't think this sort of thing is relevant to the pursuit of understanding.
> I have been Cymbalta free and symptom free since the end of March 2006.
You are fortunate indeed.
> If I can help anyone who wants to get off this medication, then I'll try.
Me too. I have in the past.
> Of course, it's all based on my personal experiences. And my experiences seem to be shared by a lot of people here.
Also shared here are the difficulties in treating some cases of mental illness. An individual might need to try many different drugs before they find a treatment that works. For some people, Cymbalta is the drug that works best. If it is not a dangerous drug, why should it not be available? Even if it is a dangerous drug, why should it not be available. Chemotherapy for cancer is dangerous if it is not administered properly. Many are cytotoxic, right?
- Scott
Posted by SLS on May 27, 2006, at 11:38:05
In reply to Re: Cymbalta withdrawal - Publicity, posted by gapsgal on May 27, 2006, at 9:43:36
Hi Donna.
> Actually the effects it could produce on the liver are even noted in the eli lilly literature on the fda site.
Most drugs have potential side effects. Their rate of occurence is certainly relevant. What is the rate of occurrence of adverse events involving the liver? As part of the approval process, all treatment-emergent adverse events must be reported, even if they are not the result of the treatment being evaluated.
> Consider these things that are happening to us when we withdraw, the auditory and sensory things not to mention the physcial things. That tells us that it is doing something to our brain,
Definitely.
> and no one knows if there are any long-term side effects from these things occuring.
This can be said of any drug.
I guess it depends on how long the drug has been around for. Some antidepressants have been around for fifty years. The drugs that are being approved today were discovered, on the average, 20 years ago. We have some idea. However, there is always a chance that a significant adverse effect will emerge in the general population that did not present during the clinical trials. Yes, there is a degree of uncertainty.
> The doctors themselves say they dont know just how this helps it just does...well if that is the case then there should be lots more research on this.
There is an incredible amount of research being conducted in this area. Neuroscience is a field exploding with investigation. Internet search engines should provide you with evidence as to how large in scope and depth this research is.
> When addicts withdraw they have similiar symptoms and these are known to cause long-term damage to the brain...
Which things are known to cause damage, the drugs themselves or the withdrawal process? I think both can produce changes that persist. Unfortuately, these treatments are not what we would like them to be.
> anything that alters the brains way of working can permanently change things in the brain.
How do you know this? That is a rather sweeping statement that I have not yet seen stated in medical literature.
> Consider someone who is addicted to pain medicine, why? Because it has changed the way their brain works and chances are the change is permanent.
I am not sure that the permanence of these changes has yet been ascertained in research.
One thing that has not yet entered into this discussion is the impact mental illness has on one's ability to function and their quality of life. I feel that the degree to which these illnesses debilitate and cause pain is severe enough to be treated aggressively with drugs that are not yet perfect.
- Scott
Posted by Jaspar on May 27, 2006, at 12:32:07
In reply to Re: Cymbalta withdrawal - Publicity » SLS, posted by secretme on May 26, 2006, at 19:08:24
> I don't get it: how many SSRIs are necessary in the marketplace?
> From what I have learned about the medications I have taken in the past 12 years,
> most of them do the same thing (NOT true. Not only does Cymbalta work on Norepinephrine (SSRIs do not), each one works a bit differently. My daughter has tried 3 migraine meds which superficially work "the same", but they tweak or not, one different minor receptor each. That makes all the difference. One did nothing for her, one made her worse, and the 3rd has worked.
Cymbalta helped my nerve pain AND alleviated my depression. If not for the hives, I would still be on it.
There has been no indication that this medication has significant permanently life-threatening adverse effects like Vioxx did for the heart.
I do NOT want it pulled from the market, I just want TRUTH. I want EVERYONE TO KNOW, before getting on it what MIGHT happen coming off of it. That's all. Then it is up to the individual to decide. For some, such as myself, I would have said, "NO" - I would not start on it, and it makes me angry that I feel like I was tricked into getting on it.
For other people, they will decide that even if they have to go through hell to get off, because they have already tried everything else and failed, the possibility that this will work, is worth that risk.
-Jaspar
Posted by secretme on May 27, 2006, at 16:06:41
In reply to Re: Cymbalta withdrawal - Publicity » secretme, posted by SLS on May 27, 2006, at 11:13:26
I haven't left yet; wouldn't want to disappoint you. You definitely are not a used car salesman......
In reading the other postings, I think many have answered your questions, whether or not you wish to acknowledge or agree with them.
Please review some of the other threads posted in the past few days and respond to these people as well. You should be an equal opportunity responder to all problems posted by Cymbalta victims on this site.
Yes, you can come on this website to discuss the issues, but it is apparent you do not wish to join with many of us who want Lilly and/or the FDA to get Cymbalta off the market.
secretme
Posted by Jaspar on May 27, 2006, at 16:22:29
In reply to Re: Cymbalta withdrawal - Publicity » SLS, posted by secretme on May 27, 2006, at 16:06:41
> it is apparent you do not wish to join with many of us who want Lilly and/or the
> FDA to get Cymbalta off the market.
> secretmeNo - Scott is just, like me, waiting to pass jufgement until all the facts are in. I also have not seen in any post a secret life-threatening danger emerging from the use of Cymbalta. Yes it has potential adverse side-effects listed, but so do Tylenol and Ibuprofen, and all my child's medications. In fact, Risk of DEATH IS listed as a possible side-effect of one of her medications, yet for HER, that risk is worth it since she would have died anyway.
Depression is life-threatening, and even pain can cause a person to end his/her life.
What Scott and I are BOTH suggesting is that unless an unexpected, clear life-threatening hazard emerges from the use of Cymbalta, asking the FDA to "ban it" is premature.
What Scott and I are demanding is that the company CLEARLY WARN of the potential for SEVERE withdrawal that even tapering off with their manufactured capsule dosages will neither prevent nor alleviate. They should clearly state that it can take SIX MONTHS or more to withdraw from 60mg of Cymbalta, and that the paient may be having to decrease by 2 GRANULES every two days in order to not end up in the hospital suffering from severe vomiting and dehydration.
I am, in addition, suggesting that the company come up with tests to determine in advance who should NOT start on Cymbalta because of severe withdrawal... and doctors and patients should be notified that this test must be done porior to taking the drug.
Vioxx, on the other hand caused sudden, unexpected, irreversible DEATH. And now it is looking that the unexpected cardiovasular damage may be permanent to users of Vioxx who didn't even know that they may have suffered heart damage.
We are allowed our opinions. I'd like it if we stopped this bickering.
-Jaspar
Posted by secretme on May 27, 2006, at 16:32:33
In reply to Re: Cymbalta withdrawal - Publicity, posted by Jaspar on May 27, 2006, at 12:32:07
Some illnesses, such as OCD, require more than one medication to help. Even with two or more medications, this condition is not curable. As you probably know, OCD is a biochemical disorder that doesn't always respond to one medication alone. With other conditions, such as high blood pressure, it may take one medication or sometimes four in combination to get the desired effect. If relief can't be attained in one medication, it might be wiser to take two or three that together will do the job instead of taking one that may hurt as much as it helps.
Scott probably has the scoop on this idea, although I'm sure he'll still plug Cymbalta.
secretme
Posted by doccybear on May 27, 2006, at 16:42:10
In reply to Re: Cymbalta withdrawal GOOD NEWS / Trying to HELP, posted by gapsgal on May 25, 2006, at 17:24:43
The doctor will know the corresponding dosage; I believe its 20mg. I wouldn't just take one dose I would stay on Prozac for a while and if you like it keep it if not ween off of that.
Posted by secretme on May 27, 2006, at 17:24:36
In reply to Re: Cymbalta withdrawal - Publicity, posted by Jaspar on May 27, 2006, at 16:22:29
Death? You're kidding, right?
Prem-Pro, after being on the market for MORE THAN 30 YEARS, is now shown to cause a high incidence of breast cancer. So startling were the study's findings that they didn't even complete it before issuing the warning and recommending that women stop taking it. It's still on the market, but lets look at how many women take it now.
I don't need death -- actually breast cancer was enough -- to tell me that Prem-Pro is something I would no longer take.
We can all take the action we think necessary, and it is most likely impossible that Cymbalta will ever be taken off the market because of what any of us says. So, like Scott, you can rest easy.
Free at last, free at last, thank God Almighty, I'M FREE AT LAST!!!!
secretme
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