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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by cashy72 on May 9, 2006, at 4:47:31
In reply to Re: Finally, posted by musky on May 9, 2006, at 0:08:35
Thanks Musky, im into the 4th day now remeron free, and feeling abit sh*tty! Like ive got a mild fever or something? maybe it is an actual flu bug, or maybe withdrawal? Still, i will just push through and keep drinkin plenty of water and stuff.!
How you doing anyway?
Cashy72.
Posted by johnnyj on May 9, 2006, at 9:25:47
In reply to Re: Cut dose to 3.75 last night?, posted by musky on May 9, 2006, at 0:22:37
Hi Musky,
I would love to know more about the drug. When I started remeron I had terrible anxiety. I have depression with anxiety and it was horrible when I first took the med. I am down to about 3.75 and the cut was two weeks ago. Well, I had a decent 5 days followed by 3 not so good with one panicky night. I then had 4 nights and 5 days of feeling much better. Then last Sunday I had the startle effect and yesterday was not good, today is better though but my chest is kind of full. Could this be withdrawal? My doc said probably not. However, when I went on the remeron I was not this panicky. I have some head stuff and nausea too. I wish I know more what to expect. Has anybody else had these symptoms when cutting a dose?
johnnyj
Posted by johnnyj on May 9, 2006, at 9:28:39
In reply to Re: Finally, posted by cashy72 on May 9, 2006, at 4:47:31
Hi,
How long where you on the 7.5 dose? Any head, chest fullness, or anxiety? How has your sleep been. I think it takes some time to get back on track. I hope I can stick it out.
johnnyj
Posted by cashy72 on May 9, 2006, at 10:47:18
In reply to Re: Finally » cashy72, posted by johnnyj on May 9, 2006, at 9:28:39
Hi Johnny, i was only on the 7.5mg for 7 days mate. I just decided rather than prolong the drawn out process of withdrawal i'd just kick it, and see it out. I've been feeling the full chest thing, anxiety at night time, and a difficulty in sleeping through the night without waking. It's tough, but i'm not going too waver and go back on the drugs. I've been 4 1/2 days off the remeron now, and am ok at work when im busy, it seems worse at nighttime, and in the morning, what about you?? Hope your feeling abit better. Hang in there mate.
Cashy72.
Posted by johnnyj on May 9, 2006, at 11:29:49
In reply to Re: Finally, posted by cashy72 on May 9, 2006, at 10:47:18
Same for me, worse at night and in the morning. Sleep is tough and anxiety has been pretty bad. I just don't buy my docs "it is just anixety" because I have the heavy chest and nausea too. I am considering the drop to zero, as I feel less depressed on nothing. It is just the anxiety and lack of sleep that is tough. I will wait a bit and see if this mellows then go to zero. The only thing I am concerned about is the withdrawal getting worse if I go to zero.
I know someone who took a med for 4 days and felt like hell for two weeks after stopping so this coiuld easily be withdrawal. Just so hard to remember that when a guy is feeling crappy. I don't feel too bad today just will keep busy and try to put it out of my mind. Some days are easier than others.
What was your original diagnosis? Mine, anxiety and depression. good luck
cheers
johnnyj
Posted by cashy72 on May 9, 2006, at 11:46:58
In reply to Re: Finally, posted by johnnyj on May 9, 2006, at 11:29:49
Hey Johnny, my original diagnosis was general depression and anxiety. It's difficult to try and think back 2 years, too remember how bad i was, but over the last 18 months i'm sure the anxiety, and panic attacks, have been worse, possibly due too the a/d's? Right now i just feel,and 100%, that i want too be drug free,so i have a clear mind on whats happening, and how im feeling. On the remeron it's just clouding and suppressing your thoughts, and the way your mind would normally operate.. it's weird isn't it?
I just want too be not takin anything, have a clear focused mind, and sort myself out naturaly, you know what i mean?
Hey, good luck with kicking your meds, keep us posted on how it's goin'... take it easy..
Cashy72.
Posted by johnnyj on May 9, 2006, at 14:16:44
In reply to Re: Finally, posted by cashy72 on May 9, 2006, at 11:46:58
I know what you mean because I feel the exact same way. I realized today that I feel more anixety and some depression today but at least my head is clearer and I'm not being a jerk. I felt irritable on remeron at highter doses and got angry eaiser. I have some stomach troubles but it seems that it is par for the course for remeron. If I can keep the anxiety reasonable I don't want to rely on meds too. Keep us posted too.
cheers
johnnyj
Posted by musky on May 10, 2006, at 1:20:24
In reply to Re: Finally, posted by cashy72 on May 9, 2006, at 4:47:31
Not too bad .... just countin the days til I quit altogether... 16days... Ive got a "survival pac" ready with all sorts of goodies (healthy ones.. NO MEDS , except for advil , tylenol in case I get flu like when stopping..) also im exercising and have all sorts of back up plans for anxiety /depression issues should they arrise.
I still have the restlessness (worse in the am) that I hope will go away once im drug free.
It doesnt surprise me that you are now getting some w/d symptoms... Remeron has a very long half life... the drug isnt completely out the body until 10 days.. then the body has to readjust its own neurotransmitters again... takes timeGood luck
MuskyThanks Musky, im into the 4th day now remeron free, and feeling abit sh*tty! Like ive got a mild fever or something? maybe it is an actual flu bug, or maybe withdrawal? Still, i will just push through and keep drinkin plenty of water and stuff.!
> How you doing anyway?
> Cashy72.
Posted by musky on May 10, 2006, at 1:29:28
In reply to Re: Cut dose to 3.75 last night? » musky, posted by johnnyj on May 9, 2006, at 9:25:47
>Hey johnny:
Yes that is EXACTLY been my experience on this drug.. more panicky and restless, I cant even stand still in the grocery line without have to tap a foot or march in place.. sounds ridiculous eh?? but yet this is so true... and totally embarrassing... I get tension in the head alot, but like i said in previous posts .. acupuncture has been curbing this.. I can just imagine what I would be like without my herbal relax and the acupuncture!! Anyways yes you sure can get w/d at the 3.75mg dose.. Those doctors all deny it.. but they dont TAKE IT so how the heck would they know???!!! Also my doc told me the same sh*t. that I shouldnt even notice the drug by now.. Thats totally false... according to what ive learnt that its inverse(homeopathic) effect. Even my acupuncturist has told me that the lower you go the more the body starts to notice that less andless of the drug is there and trys to create a "false " crisis to keep the drug in the system(ie,, yu keep taking the a/d)..
In any case hang in there.. it takes a LONG time to adjust.. For me I got the heavy head, nausea, etc EVERY time i would reduce.. also dizzy , irritabilty , etc.. then I would tell my acupuncturist and he would "smooth" things out.. I would get atreatment and noticed right away how i calmed down..
Gingerale is my Godsend for nausea...Good luck
Musky
Hi Musky,
>
> I would love to know more about the drug. When I started remeron I had terrible anxiety. I have depression with anxiety and it was horrible when I first took the med. I am down to about 3.75 and the cut was two weeks ago. Well, I had a decent 5 days followed by 3 not so good with one panicky night. I then had 4 nights and 5 days of feeling much better. Then last Sunday I had the startle effect and yesterday was not good, today is better though but my chest is kind of full. Could this be withdrawal? My doc said probably not. However, when I went on the remeron I was not this panicky. I have some head stuff and nausea too. I wish I know more what to expect. Has anybody else had these symptoms when cutting a dose?
>
> johnnyj
>
>
Posted by musky on May 10, 2006, at 1:36:56
In reply to Re: Finally, posted by cashy72 on May 9, 2006, at 11:46:58
> hey cashy.. me too,,, i want my normal thoughts pattern back again.. I want off the meds too. I was told i had depression/anxiety.. but guess what I had neck problems and coulndnt work for 2yrs !! of course i was depressed,,, that was normal.. As far as anxiety.. i was always a little high strung,, but thats my nature... and I managed my whole life without meds before..
I found all this anxiety got alot worse once i was on meds!! and also all other thoughts and feelings being supressed since taking remeron..
I dont believe it when docs say you get rebound anxiety... its WITHDRAWL!!! I guess we just all have to stick it out together on our battle through this!!Good luck
Musky
Hey Johnny, my original diagnosis was general depression and anxiety. It's difficult to try and think back 2 years, too remember how bad i was, but over the last 18 months i'm sure the anxiety, and panic attacks, have been worse, possibly due too the a/d's? Right now i just feel,and 100%, that i want too be drug free,so i have a clear mind on whats happening, and how im feeling. On the remeron it's just clouding and suppressing your thoughts, and the way your mind would normally operate.. it's weird isn't it?
> I just want too be not takin anything, have a clear focused mind, and sort myself out naturaly, you know what i mean?
> Hey, good luck with kicking your meds, keep us posted on how it's goin'... take it easy..
> Cashy72.
Posted by johnnyj on May 10, 2006, at 9:24:48
In reply to Re: Cut dose to 3.75 last night?, posted by jules354 on May 3, 2006, at 19:22:02
HI Jules,
How long after cutting/quitting did things start to smooth out?
My wife said I snored last night but I woke up many times. Anxiety is better today but I feel "weird" today. Some depression, nausea, kind of shakey, sponge brain and kind of numb around the eyes. I also have this sensitivity with my ears and smell. More acute than normal. I had this on my benzo reduction too. It is hard to stay still. If I sit still and then move it feels kind like I'm dizzy or something. So hard to explain. On day 14 of my reduction and hope this abates some time soon. I just want to curl up and sleep for two weeks until my body adjusts but that can't happen unless I can have a coma induced! I am tired and fatigued. I just wonder how long until this smooths out? I hate to think this stuff has made me worse and permanently changed my body. I am hanging on but how long can I stand this withdrawal? Pray for me everyone.
johnnyj
Posted by jules354 on May 10, 2006, at 13:55:15
In reply to Re: Cut dose to 3.75 last night? » jules354, posted by johnnyj on May 10, 2006, at 9:24:48
hi johnnyj,
i think it was at least six weeks before i felt like the w/d symptoms were infrequent. i took my last does in mid-feb and since the end of april i've felt generally symptom-free. i've had some mood swings since then but i think they're stress related. i was originally on 90mg for 5 or 6 years and over the course of 2.5 years slowly tapered down to 15mg and then 7.5 mg for the last two weeks.
my philosophy is that remeron does profoundly affect your mind and body but that they're a little like a chemically treated river (i won't say polluted bcs i like what the remeron did for me, but maybe in your case you felt like your river was polluted): they'll gradually self-correct. my main methods to take care of myself have been lots of water, little caffeine and sugar, exercise and yoga, managing stress and diet, and leaning on my support network. the flu symptoms and insomnia and mood swings were the hardest to weather. and loss of appetite - which is nice b/c i've lost the remeron weight but also hard at times for obvious reasons.
so funny, i think like you i also had some sensitivity to sound and some dizziness, but i wasn't sure if it was w/d or stress (it's been a stressful spring!).
i hope things even out again for you - when are you planning your next reduction? is it going to be zero next time?
sorry for rambling!
take care,
jules
Posted by johnnyj on May 10, 2006, at 14:44:28
In reply to Re: Cut dose to 3.75 last night? » johnnyj, posted by jules354 on May 10, 2006, at 13:55:15
thanks for the reply
I am not sure about a reduction quite yet. I am not sure if I should stablize or just go to zero. It could help or make the w/d worse. Hard to tell because 7.5 just made me more depressed. But I don't want to prolong the w/d....doctor doesn't have a good idea either. They don't seem to know much about withdrawal. Almost act like it isn't that bad and are quick to say it is just your original condition. If so, why all of the other symptoms?
I guess I am not suprised by the 6 weeks for you. I had a month of depression after my last benzo dose and then boom, I felt better. This is a more potent med and hits so many receptors. Waiting it out is rough though. I have to watch the excercise since it kind of revs up my body and makes sleeping more difficult. I don't want to "overcharge" my system right now, just want to limit all types of stress. I am limiting excercise to yard work and walking. It is funny but today I was naseated but around lunch was so hungary.
Did you have ups and downs in anxiety and depression? That is what is confusing. Today, less anxiety but more depression. Go figure. Thanks again for the reply. I will do some progressive muscle relaxation tonight.
johnnyj
Posted by Marian29 on May 10, 2006, at 18:58:14
In reply to Re: Cut dose to 3.75 last night?, posted by johnnyj on May 10, 2006, at 14:44:28
I know what you mean--the increased sensitivity to noise is astounding! I can't stand being out of the house these days--every bit of stimulus feels like stress. I had to go to the pharmacy, and they were playing soft rock on the radio, which I could FEEL through every pore. I hope this phase passes soon!
About not sleeping, johnny--are you trying to go completely med free? I finally caved and asked for and got some Lunesta, which I'll take only for a month. The lack of sleep was driving me insane. Maybe a short term of something like that would help you, too?
I've been Remeron free for 3 weeks, I think. The mood is ok, but the sleeplessness is impossible. Also very little appetite, which is fine with me at this point.
Hope everyone continues to heal!
Posted by jules354 on May 10, 2006, at 20:24:32
In reply to Re: Cut dose to 3.75 last night?, posted by johnnyj on May 10, 2006, at 14:44:28
i'd definitely recommend keeping up with the walking. it's so good for you and will really help.
i definitely had ups and downs w/ anxiety and depression - and it was confusing bcs i never had problems w/ anxiety before, just depression. so i'm convinced it was the w/d symptoms.
take care,
jules
Posted by johnnyj on May 10, 2006, at 22:00:43
In reply to Re: Cut dose to 3.75 last night?, posted by Marian29 on May 10, 2006, at 18:58:14
Hello Marian,
I have not tried a sleep med yet. I have samples of rozerem but I hesitate due to some contradictions concerning depression on the accompanying info.
About Lunesta, well, I thought of it but most benzo drugs made me more depressed and since they work on the same receptors my doc was not too thrilled about it. What is your feeling with it? I thought if I did take something I would only take it every 3rd or 4th night and may switch up different meds as not to let my body get too adjusted.
Tonight I have hardly any anxiety, but do feel a bit down. Today was rather blah. I do pray for a good nights sleep. That feels so good to have a sound comfortable sleep.
Keep fighting everyone
johnnyj
Posted by musky on May 10, 2006, at 23:46:16
In reply to Re: Cut dose to 3.75 last night? » jules354, posted by johnnyj on May 10, 2006, at 9:24:48
>
Hey johnny... sorry tohear you are having a bit of a rough time , cause the last post you sounded not too bad.. Hang in there and I will say a special little prayer for you tonite.It takes time,,, I too am kinda worried that this drug permenantly damaged me.. but I try to not focus on that and think logically... It is probably temporary what this drug does ...
Try to keep busy as you can so that time passes by fast and you take the focus off yourself..
I know what you mean by wierd.. everytime I cut back i would get this out of body sensation , foggy brain stuff.. I would just walk around in a daze it seemed..
Had an acupuncture treatment today... evened out my mood again... pretty stable tonight..Good luck
Keep going... Im told the brain will heal its neural pathways.. read that in a medical book somewhere.. so it gives me hope....
muskyHI Jules,
>
> How long after cutting/quitting did things start to smooth out?
>
> My wife said I snored last night but I woke up many times. Anxiety is better today but I feel "weird" today. Some depression, nausea, kind of shakey, sponge brain and kind of numb around the eyes. I also have this sensitivity with my ears and smell. More acute than normal. I had this on my benzo reduction too. It is hard to stay still. If I sit still and then move it feels kind like I'm dizzy or something. So hard to explain. On day 14 of my reduction and hope this abates some time soon. I just want to curl up and sleep for two weeks until my body adjusts but that can't happen unless I can have a coma induced! I am tired and fatigued. I just wonder how long until this smooths out? I hate to think this stuff has made me worse and permanently changed my body. I am hanging on but how long can I stand this withdrawal? Pray for me everyone.
>
> johnnyj
Posted by musky on May 10, 2006, at 23:55:17
In reply to Re: Cut dose to 3.75 last night?, posted by johnnyj on May 10, 2006, at 14:44:28
>Hey johnny... what u said about exercise... I can see how yo dont want to rev up your system but i think otherwise.. from all reports exercise is the best thing for w/d and stress.. seriously ,,,i'm going on the tredmill 2x week right now and it has helped with all this w/d as well. you want to break a sweat as that is how the body detoxifies too.
Oh ya... wait until you are STABLE mood before reducing... at least that has what my acupuncturist told me and what i have researched about w/d... this has worked for me.. they say no matter how long it takes just keep going.. dont get to anxious to cut back too soon.
For me it was about every 3months.. I have been like jules .. taking forever to wean... its been 2yrs (Icant believe this!) but I am almost done..
and im glad i have taken my time so far.. it has taught me more about myself I think and has taught me mental disciplinemusky
Hang inmusky
thanks for the reply
>
> I am not sure about a reduction quite yet. I am not sure if I should stablize or just go to zero. It could help or make the w/d worse. Hard to tell because 7.5 just made me more depressed. But I don't want to prolong the w/d....doctor doesn't have a good idea either. They don't seem to know much about withdrawal. Almost act like it isn't that bad and are quick to say it is just your original condition. If so, why all of the other symptoms?
>
> I guess I am not suprised by the 6 weeks for you. I had a month of depression after my last benzo dose and then boom, I felt better. This is a more potent med and hits so many receptors. Waiting it out is rough though. I have to watch the excercise since it kind of revs up my body and makes sleeping more difficult. I don't want to "overcharge" my system right now, just want to limit all types of stress. I am limiting excercise to yard work and walking. It is funny but today I was naseated but around lunch was so hungary.
>
> Did you have ups and downs in anxiety and depression? That is what is confusing. Today, less anxiety but more depression. Go figure. Thanks again for the reply. I will do some progressive muscle relaxation tonight.
>
> johnnyj
Posted by musky on May 11, 2006, at 0:04:44
In reply to Re: Cut dose to 3.75 last night? » Marian29, posted by johnnyj on May 10, 2006, at 22:00:43
>
Hello johnny:about sleep... try some natural remedies such as chamomile tea.. , hot milk... a hot bath just before going to bed..
try some relaxtion tapes/cds listen to them in bed.. there are even tapes out there that play certain sound waves to increase the brains alpha waves(the ones responsible for the deep sleep we get)..
Acupunture has helped me soooo much with balancing out my sleep... iwas getting broken sleep alot through this and have since stabilized.wierd but at this lower dose of 2mg I am sooo tired in the am.. hard to wake up for work!! I hope that my insomnia dosent return after stopping completely.. but I will cross that bridge later...
I would hesitate to take a sleep med as once ;you take it.. how then will you wean off that? to me its just another med to have to come off.. and then you may feel anxious if you dont have it and your insomnia will come back??
I had sleeping pills when first on remeron ,, they didnt help me one bit.. still woke up in the night,, restless sleep and then i had this horrible metal taste in my mouth the next day.
I weaned myself off those meds a while back,,, and havent looked back..
like i said.. acupuncture was the best thing for helping with insomnia...Good luck
the body will balance.. thats what it was made to do
Musky
Hello Marian,
>
> I have not tried a sleep med yet. I have samples of rozerem but I hesitate due to some contradictions concerning depression on the accompanying info.
>
> About Lunesta, well, I thought of it but most benzo drugs made me more depressed and since they work on the same receptors my doc was not too thrilled about it. What is your feeling with it? I thought if I did take something I would only take it every 3rd or 4th night and may switch up different meds as not to let my body get too adjusted.
>
> Tonight I have hardly any anxiety, but do feel a bit down. Today was rather blah. I do pray for a good nights sleep. That feels so good to have a sound comfortable sleep.
>
> Keep fighting everyone
>
> johnnyj
Posted by cashy72 on May 12, 2006, at 5:14:27
In reply to Re: Cut dose to 3.75 last night? » johnnyj, posted by jules354 on May 10, 2006, at 13:55:15
Hi Jules, just picked up your message too johhnyj, hope you don't mind me replying for some reassurance... I'm 7 days into being free of remeron, which i'd been on for 18 mths or so, 45mg, then 30mg for 12mths, i cut down 15mg to 7.5mg over a week or so. In the last day or so my sleep pattern has been terrible, maybe 1 hour at best, and anxiety levels are very high, especially in the morning... Is this what you experienced, i'm just going too grit my teeth, and see it through, but just wanted some confirmation of the w/d symptoms..
Cheers. Cashy72
Posted by johnnyj on May 12, 2006, at 8:17:22
In reply to Re: Cut dose to 3.75 last night?, posted by cashy72 on May 12, 2006, at 5:14:27
It is withdrawal in my opinion. When I first tried remeron years ago I stayed on it for about 3 months and when I quit I was fine for a week and then wham, the worst anxiety I had in years. Well, they just upped my benzo, tripled it, and this helped but the benzo just made me depressed after some time. So, in my opinion, it is withdrawal. So many times the people here talk of insomnia and anxiety as being very severe. The good news is my anxiety has gone down but there is a low grade depression in conjunction with my heavy head. That is why I think I may need to go to zero from the 3.75 and try and gut it out. Remeron is viscious that is for sure.
Posted by jules354 on May 12, 2006, at 22:36:41
In reply to Re: Cut dose to 3.75 last night?, posted by cashy72 on May 12, 2006, at 5:14:27
hi Cashy72,
that was my experience exactly, and plus i've never had probs w/ anxiety before so i feel sure it was the withdrawal. yes, my anxiety was esp. pronounced in the morning too.
i think for a lot of us, these symptoms were worst when cutting back to the lowest doses...makes me think that they're like the side effects themselves of the remeron, which are also worst in lower doses.
i hope things even out for you soon.
take care,
jules
Posted by Marian29 on May 13, 2006, at 12:22:33
In reply to Re: Cut dose to 3.75 last night? » cashy72, posted by jules354 on May 12, 2006, at 22:36:41
I almost went back on Remeron last night! Not sleeping is killing me. I'm now on my third sleep aid, and while I can fall asleep without panic attacks, I'm up at 3am. And I'm exhausted and kinda without motivation all day long.
So I caught myself thinking, maybe I should just take a small dose. I recall feeling pretty good on Remeron, had a lot of energy. It was soooo tempting....
The only thing that stopped me was the realization that I've lost 5 pounds since quitting. I don't want to go back to my clothes being too tight.
Anyone else dealing with the temptation of just chucking this withdrawal and heading on back?
Marian
Posted by johnnyj on May 13, 2006, at 21:43:30
In reply to Re: Cut dose to 3.75 last night?, posted by Marian29 on May 13, 2006, at 12:22:33
Marian:
You reading my mind? I thought about going back up a few nights ago. I didn't. I had five not so good days and sleeping was so tough. It will be 3 weeks this Monday that I cut to 3.75. Well, last night I slept about 8 hours. I got some giner ale for the nausea and today was not too bad. I still have a low grade anxiety though and my chest feels very full, some depression but managable.
I worked outside today and got developed a thumping feeling in the back of my head. I know it is withdrawal since the remeron caused heaviness and headaches. It is gone now but I am still feeling "strange" but at least I didn't feel like dying today. I hope you are able to stick it out because if I go up in my dose I may sleep better but the other side effects are too much. I haven't used a sleep med either. I just try to let it pass. Are you totally off now? I do believe this takes weeks to adjust and I am still not there but I am hopeful. Hang in there.
cheers
johnnyj
Posted by musky on May 13, 2006, at 21:44:45
In reply to Re: Cut dose to 3.75 last night?, posted by cashy72 on May 12, 2006, at 5:14:27
>Hey Cashy... good to hear you are sticking it out.. you sound like a FIGHTER and will win this battle... IVe done some more research on Remeron and its pharacodynamics... Did you know that females metabolize remeron at a slower rate than males.. therefore the half life is much longer. The average half life of remeron is 20-40hrs.. so its no wonder withdrawl takes a long time..
Docs dont tell the patient this though.. at least mine didnt.. and they all prescribe the same dose for males and females... how dumb is that!!
Anyways... hang in and it will get better... look at jules and johnny...
I guess im next to go off completely ....12 days and counting...
I take my last remeron then.Musky
Hi Jules, just picked up your message too johhnyj, hope you don't mind me replying for some reassurance... I'm 7 days into being free of remeron, which i'd been on for 18 mths or so, 45mg, then 30mg for 12mths, i cut down 15mg to 7.5mg over a week or so. In the last day or so my sleep pattern has been terrible, maybe 1 hour at best, and anxiety levels are very high, especially in the morning... Is this what you experienced, i'm just going too grit my teeth, and see it through, but just wanted some confirmation of the w/d symptoms..
> Cheers. Cashy72
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