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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 6 of 6. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Romana Marie on April 28, 2005, at 21:33:00
Hi, I have been taking Seroquel for 3 years now at a level of 600 mg/day (I am 5'3" approx. 120 lbs) I take it for bipolar w/ Psychotic episodes.
The side effects have finally overcome the benefits of what was an effective med. I went down from 600 to 0 in a matter of ten days and I feel like hell. Sweats, shakes, sh*ts, nausea, INTENSE muscle cramping, debilitating headaches. I'm being switched to Geodon and was unsure of what was Seroquel withdrawl vs. Geodon side effect. Have stopped taking everything as of 48 hrs in an attempt to detoxify. Am wait listed for seeing a doc @ public clinic so the switch feels like it is happening basically unsupervised - the doc knows I'm suffering these effects and have chosen to let the symptoms die down before re-introducing Geodon, so will be unmedicated for a while. I'm a little scared. Doc can't see me again for another 3 weeks or so. Has anybody out there come off a big and prolonged dosage of Seroquel? How was it? HOw long did it take to stop feeling so intensely crappy? Is it just me?
Posted by Lizzyb on May 3, 2005, at 10:14:11
In reply to Seroquel Withdrawl Symptoms?!, posted by Romana Marie on April 28, 2005, at 21:33:00
I took 25 mg Seroquel for only two days and not only was it a rough medication, I felt horrible when I took it, hangover, headache, tired. It was just plain nasty. The third night I didn't take it and I couldn't sleep. You are at a much higher dose for a longer time. I can't even imagine what you must be going through....! I am no longer taking it.
Posted by hadleigh71 on May 3, 2005, at 12:28:44
In reply to Seroquel Withdrawl Symptoms?!, posted by Romana Marie on April 28, 2005, at 21:33:00
Hi Romana Marie,
I have experience with Seroquel withdrawl and I wonder if you or a loved one combed this site or the internet over before doing this? I'm not kicking a horse while it's down, I just feel so bad for you..AP's are the worst medications to stop taking and they present an even stronger case for a slow tapering. 10 % a week until you are finished if you dont plan to take a AP ever again. This would mean 60, 50, 50, etc. Also there doesnt need to be a washout period if you are switching to another AP unlike AD's, most pick up with a new AP the same day they stop taking the old one. This prevents any serious withdrawl but doesnt prevent uneasiness but it isn't as severe as complete washout (Mania). Please go to the doctor's office and get samples of Geodon or continue to to take the Seroquel if you can't get them. You left out the major possibility of complete withdrawl..Mania with a trip to the happy house, we both know this isnt preferred.
Posted by tsoygal on May 6, 2005, at 17:20:05
In reply to Re: Seroquel Withdrawl Symptoms?!, posted by hadleigh71 on May 3, 2005, at 12:28:44
Wow, from 600 mg to zero of Seroquel. I pray you are doing okay. I agree what was mentioned earlier about the importance of SLOWLY tapering off. (Typically it seems that many doctors do NOT do this; our experience has been the psychiatrists believe 3 days is plenty time for 'tapering' off). My adult son has been taking Seroquel only since January 2005, and before that he was taking Risperdal . Both are awful drugs.
He took Risperdal, 2 mg,, and then started experiencing seizures nearly 6 months to the day later. ( We have since learned that seizures are one of the side-effects of Risperdal and it takes about 3-6 months for them to show up; sometimes they appear sooner or later.) The Physicians Desk Reference (PDR) tells you a lot about meds which one will never read in the enclosures, of tiny print, which are packed with a med--if you're lucky you'll get one of these inserts. My son did NOT receive any printed info the whole time he was taking Risperdal through the free services at the local Mental Health/Mental Retardation agency--MHMR.)
So, in a space of 3 days the MHMR psychiatrist yanked my son off Risperdal, 2 mg, (and Mirtazapine, 15 mg.) and put him on Seroquel. Plus this psychiatrist wanted him to go from zero Seroquel to 600mg daily in the space of a weekend.
When I heard the doctor say this, I thought to myself: "whoa. If he needs to take 600 mg, okay, but to zoom him up to that level when he is also dealing with seizures; this doesn't feel okay," But I said nothing.
Once we were in the car my son said: "Mom, I don't think it's smart to start Seroquel so quickly, what do you think?"
We've since learned Seroquel is also a neuroleptic that is being freely prescribed though its safety was based on limited trials, on a small population.
But, until we became better informed, he tried to comply by going on Seroquel, but intuitively he knew to do it slower than what the psychiatrist was wanting. Still it was faster than what he would do today.
He never reached the 600 mg. mark set by the doctor because his seizures became worse. The psychiatrist's reaction to increased seizure activity ? Take MORE Seroquel.
Our son asked for my help. He wanted to learn more & yet he felt so drugged, or was recovering from daily seizures, that he was unable to do the research.
By combing the web & bookstores, he and I learned that, like Risperdal, Seroquel can cause seizures, especially if the patient is inclined to experience them. ...and at this point in time, my son was/is 'inclined' to experience them.
As the seizures required an EEG test and an MRI, my son requested to see a neurologist through the medical assistance program in our city. He was given an appointment 2 months in the future, while he continued to have convulsions. So, my husband & I paid for a neurology appt. Hundreds of $$ for that visit . But we wanted to make certain there was no tumor or that a stroke weren't the causes of his convulsions. The neurologist assured us that he felt it was okay to wait until the 2 month appt. happened, especially since a family physician, not part of the charity system, had seen to it that our son went on Trileptal.
Now, after being part of the local, charity system, my son has had 3 different appointments with 3 different docs at the public/charity neurology unit at the biggest hospital in this city. Each of the neurologists has a different approach for treating the daily seizures, which are now reduced to simple partial seizures. All of them agree that Trileptal is a good Rx for his seizures, but each of them has his/her idea of what extra seizure med should be added. Only one feels that the Trileptal by itself is enough.
Also, all of the neurologists, except one, believe my son should stay on Seroquel. Are they confering with the psychiatrist(s) about anything? No.
I find it frightening that both the psychiatrists and the neurologists treat the same brain/my son but they do NOT talk to one another.
I asked the one neurologist who raised a red flag regarding Seroquel to write a note to the local MHMR/charity psychiatrists with his recommendation that Seroquel be lowered until my son has a symptom warranting the use of Seroquel-- but this neurologist refused. Boldly he spoke about Seroquel, but he won't put anything in writing. Everyone is afraid of law suits, I presume. He told me/my son to tell the psychiatrists what we want to happen. Why would we hesitate to speak up?
What is at risk is that my son can be removed from the rolls of MHMR, if it is determined he is 'NOT compliant' regarding his medication. And this would have a negative ripple effect on my son's application for Social Security Disability. So we're trying to decide what to do.
Perhaps you will find it helpful to read the book : YOUR DRUG MAY BE YOUR PROBLEM. It has been an eye-opener for us.
We also found a 2003 copy of Physician Desk Reference (PDR) for $9. at Goodwill. In the PDR it is interesting to read what my son's doctors are supposed to be reading and sharing with him/us BEFORE they send him out into the parking lot with free samples and/or a month supply of heavy duty neuroleptics (Risperdal and then Seroquel). Within the PDR, you will learn about the relatively small populations that a drug's trials are performed on & you'll see for what a short period of time, 4-6 weeks, a drug trial consists of.
Why are millions of people taking anti-depressants, & especially anti-psychotic meds, and other meds that tinker with their brain for years & years when there is nothing in the trials that support this approach?
Just because it seems to 'work' doesn't mean there will not be serious reprecussions 3, 5, 10 years down the road. In my son's case, it only took 6 months before we started seeing a side effect...but what other damage was done? what other damage is being done as he slowly lowers the Seroquel ?
Yet, definitely, paranoia, hallucinations that accompany Bi-polar (and of course Schizophrenia) are very serious symptoms. What else can you do if you, a loved one, or a friend is mentally unstable? Reaching for help through drugs seems to be the best answer most of the time.
It's my experience with my son that one should NEVER reduce brain meds without talking it over with your support system. When someone is mentally not okay, that person MUST have outside feedback.
Ideally the feedback/support system would consist of a psychiatrist who doesn't respond to all mental concerns by throwing drugs at the patient. It is our experience, unfortunately, that at the local Mental Health, Mental Retardation center in our town that drugs are tossed like candy because the doctors are overworked, the patients have no money, and everyone wants to solve the problem(s) as quick as possible.
Also, a feedback system ideally would consist of a therapist who is NOT tied to the drug business/culture in America. My son has such a therapist. Actually, she is nationally famous and consents to see my son for a 75 % reduced fee. And, if you have a spiritual path, then talk with your pastor, priest, rabbi, lama about everything.
Out of work, no insurance, and in desperate need, is why my son went to the public clinic-- MHMR. And still he must depend on them until Social Security Disability comes through or...what? ..what else is there for medical treatment in this country if you have no insurance and limited funds??
In my son's case, his father and I are also part of his support system, along with a sympathic General Practitioner MD who used to be head of MHMR until he got fed up with the drug culture within that bureaucracy. Plus, part of his support system includes alternative health practitioners who provide acupuncture, chiropractic care, homeopathy, etc. at greatly discounted rates--still, our finances are definitely being strained to the max these days.
With the help of his 'support' system, my son is reducing his Seroquel, approx. 10%-20 every 3-4 weeks.
He continues taking the 1200 mg. daily of Trileptal because this addresses the seizure problem and because he/we feel one should not monkey around with several different meds all at once.
So, how does the slow tapering work ? After the horrible attempt to go up to 600 mg in a week or two, my son ended up taking only 150 mg of Seroquel. He stayed at this level for two months..and he felt drugged the whole time, every day. Plus his memory, concentration were non-existent. He felt very dependent, etc. And of course there were always the nagging seizures, albeit reduced from what they started out to be.
The first reduction in Seroquel went from 150 to 125 mg. daily. and he stayed at 125 mg. for nearly a month. Then he reduced it to 100 mg. for 3 weeks.
Two days ago he lowered it to 75 mg. He intends to stay at this level for a month, maybe longer, since he is getting very low in the dosage.
Definitely he has had side effects from this withdrawal process. Many of them are the SAME as when he began taking the meds: He is Dizzy, nauseated, trembling in the mornings. And he stays that way for 3-4 hours. This last for about 2 weeks and then his brain adjusts to the dose, and he is okay. What is returning is his memory, his concentration and his sense of well-being.
Some mornings he looks how we imagine a heroine addict must appear. (he takes Seroquel at night before going to bed) The book, YOUR DRUG MAY BE YOUR PROBLEM, talks about these side effects, explains why they happen and it discusses the risks involved whether you stay on the meds or you go off them. There are definite risks either way. So be careful. Please be very careful.
The authors of the book, YOUR DRUG -- I can't locate my copy in the house & cannot remember the name of the authors--have their detractors. We've read what other professionals say about these men and their work; and still we've decided to try to lower the Seroquel as much as possible. AND at this point only the General Practitioner/MD knows what we are doing...not the MHMR psychiatrist.My son's paranoia, hallucinations--which I've since been told were never ' that severe'-- have not returned since the one time in July of last year. At the time he experienced them, he had just cold-turkey-quit a heavy 15-year tobacco addiction, had just been fired from his job, and was having some flashbacks to childhood trauma.
If you are contemplating reducing your meds, please get a support system in place, do research on the web, etc. Remember there are risks either way. And if you choose to go ahead then Go slow ! Also, please watch your diet, exercise, and learn how to meditate. We canNOT complain about how we feel if we are UNwilling to make some sacrifices.
A LOW dose of anything is better than the highest dose; yet please be wise.: If you need a powerful med or several meds at X level, then okay, make your peace with them and with yourself...and consider volunteering: helping someone (or a group of people) less fortunate than you is great medicine.
Posted by Boogymama on October 29, 2005, at 22:05:37
In reply to Seroquel Withdrawl Symptoms?!, posted by Romana Marie on April 28, 2005, at 21:33:00
I have done very well on 600mgs of Seroquel. I have a "normal" life now because I am no longer seeing or hearing or believing strange things. I've been on Seroquel for 5? years.
I took Seroquel while I was pregnante. The entire time. I tried maybe 1 or 2 days not to take it in the first couple of weeks of pregnanacy because of neural-tube defects. I took Folic Acid for about 3 months before becoming pregnante. My baby is perfectly healthy. Mentally he is "all there". I'm not sure that the OBGYN gave me a reason, but he was a little sluggish at birth. I don't know if that was from the difficult time before his birth, or if it was a side effect of Seroquel.
Now SEROQUEL WITHDRAWL. I searched the internet and found this site. I need a plan. I have had two episodes where I was unable to get my medicine because of a holiday weekend and one time because of a laps in my Medicaide coverage. It was HECK on Earth. I didn't sleep the entire time. My husband thought we could just hold on until we could do something. Looking back, I wished I would have gone to the hospital. Any hospital, anywhere!! I couldn't sleep and by the third day I thought the lawn chair was going to kill me and the dishes. It seems silly now, but at the time it was terrifying.
Now, I need a plan. There is so many bad things in the news. I think that if I stock up on food and water and medicine, that maybe I could make it on my own for about a month if the we have a natural or man made disaster. I KNOW that I can't make it through without something to knock me out.
I know that there are things that can help like a bedtime routine and no caffiene and exercise. But in the worst case, I need to know that there is something I could do without Seroquel.
What about OTC medicine?
Posted by JonJon on April 29, 2006, at 6:51:13
In reply to Re: Seroquel Withdrawl, posted by Boogymama on October 29, 2005, at 22:05:37
>I know that there are things that can help like >a bedtime routine and no caffiene and exercise. >But in the worst case, I need to know that there >is something I could do without Seroquel.
>
>What about OTC medicine?I started taking seroquel due to the mental withdrawls I received from quitting pot. (I went from 1oz a week of extremely high grade(san diego) cannabis, to nothing).
I don't know what got me there, but I slowly went manic. I would have a rolling 5 hour (my poor mother) conversation with my mother, where I repeated myself five times. That sounds mild because I didn't describe it right - I had a conversation with her for the first hour, then I repeated it the second hour, then third, then fourth, then sometime during the fifth we were on our way to the emergency room and I had no f'ing clue WTF "my parents" problem was. I WAS FSCKING FINE!!! =P
(I'm one of those people who has been told by everyone else my whole life how smart I am, and have always been able to outsmart my parents, so I'm just glad I wanted to go to the ER to "prove them wrong", else who knows what would be of me now. I'd probably be roaming the beaches aimlessly, carrying on a very deep and complex conversation, WITH MYSELF =)I've been on seroquel ever since (100mg/day)
I resumed smoking once on seroquel, however I no longer smoke(2 months now).During my period of smoking while on seroquel, I found out a few things.
One of them was, and I hate to say this because I think some idiot may take it as a way to quit seroquel,
--**READ THIS**--(BELIEVE ME IT IS NOT A WAY TO QUIT, YOU WILL JUST BE DEPENDANT ON SOMETHING WORSE)--*READ THIS*--
however I could (and probably still can) switch from pot to seroquel, and back, easily.I think the way that works is, pot exhausts you enough if you smoke it all day, that you can actually sleep all night.
Anyways, smoked (I've not eaten it, so I cannot advise on that), you'd have to do it all of the time in order to replace the seroquel. And by that I mean I was smoking hourly.
So, ONLY IF IT COMES HELL AND HIGH WATER -- AND I'M TALKING MAJOR, if you use seroquel to escape mania/sleeplessness you MAY be able to switch it off with a VERY hardcore marijuana diet.
I'm, again, basing all of this on the experience of ONE.
I know it's something I'm glad to know, because being dependant on a drug really freaks me out (I didn't think I was dependant on pot until I quit -- I smoked for about a year STRAIGHT, and then one day decided I shouldn't anymore) especially when it's something I wouldn't be able to produce.
I'm reading all of this because I'm about to go off my seroquel.
It looks (to me, at least) that the gradual reduction method is the way to go. The only people that need to quit anything cold turkey are the people who still WANT(conciously) to be on whatever it is they're quitting.Welp, have fun.
Erg I had to register, (I missed #1 only =/ lol) I just stumbled on this thread on google by the way, so I probably wont be back here.
So some parting words that will definately NOT make me famous on this thread:
If a car salesman sells you a lemon, that's your fault.
A doctor may prescribe you something, however you're the one who chooses to swallow it.
If you're putting a potentially harmful substance into your body based solely on a doctors advice, and it kills you, well, in my eyes, the doctor didn't swallow the pill for you.Oh, and a one-liner for my generation right here, totally not related to this post at all:
If you KNOW you can do it, you can.
This is the end of the thread.
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