![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by ed_uk on March 5, 2006, at 17:22:56
In reply to Re: Yes » ed_uk, posted by zeugma on March 3, 2006, at 18:07:08
Hi Z :)
>When people wothdraw from an SSRI the serotonin system is depleted, and they enter REM prematurely, experiencing those 'zap' sensations from cholinergic hypersensitivity, which results from the sudden aminergic weakness.
Some people take diphenhydramine (Benadryl), an antihistamine and anticholinergic, to reduce the symptoms of SSRI withdrawal. I imagine the anticholinergic effect reduces the withdrawal symptoms and the antihistamine effect reduces any insomnia which may be present.
Warm regards
Ed
Posted by zeugma on March 5, 2006, at 17:22:57
In reply to Re: Yes » zeugma, posted by ed_uk on March 4, 2006, at 13:06:52
> Hi Z :)
>
> >When people withdraw [fixed my own spelling- I took an afternoon dose of Provigil today] from an SSRI the serotonin system is depleted, and they enter REM prematurely, experiencing those 'zap' sensations from cholinergic hypersensitivity, which results from the sudden aminergic weakness.
>
> Some people take diphenhydramine (Benadryl), an antihistamine and anticholinergic, to reduce the symptoms of SSRI withdrawal. I imagine the anticholinergic effect reduces the withdrawal symptoms and the antihistamine effect reduces any insomnia which may be present.
>at one time there was an interest in 'cholinergic probes' to determine if depressives would experience reduced REM latency in response to a cholinergic drug.
although the depressives examined in studies dating back to the 80's exhibited a reduced REM latency generally,even without a cholinergic probe, those with something called 'psychotic depression' would show REM latencies something like mine, ie. latency of less than a minute.
Who knows what these studies and constructs were worth. (Progress has not been made in the study of depression, were those researchers examining blind alleys? I have no idea.)
In any case some still maintain a cholinergic dysregulation exists in depression and/or ADHD. Anticholinergic agents were found to be efficacious in the treatment of REM-associated phenomena in narcolepsy, but as you might imagine, the side effects were not tolerable considering the doses required.
yes, I've heard that Benadryl is a good OTC treatment for SSRI withdrawal. (american Benadryl=diphenhydramine.)
-z
> Warm regards
>
> Ed
>
>
Posted by ed_uk on March 5, 2006, at 17:22:57
In reply to Re: Yes » ed_uk, posted by zeugma on March 4, 2006, at 14:45:33
Hi Z :)
Have you taken diphenhydramine yourself?
Ed
Posted by tizza on March 5, 2006, at 17:22:57
In reply to Re: Yes » zeugma, posted by ed_uk on March 4, 2006, at 13:06:52
> Hi Z :)
>
> >When people wothdraw from an SSRI the serotonin system is depleted, and they enter REM prematurely, experiencing those 'zap' sensations from cholinergic hypersensitivity, which results from the sudden aminergic weakness.
>
> Some people take diphenhydramine (Benadryl), an antihistamine and anticholinergic, to reduce the symptoms of SSRI withdrawal. I imagine the anticholinergic effect reduces the withdrawal symptoms and the antihistamine effect reduces any insomnia which may be present.
>
> Warm regards
>
> Ed
>
> that's what I used Ed, diphenhydramine (Benadryl) it does help a little to smooth out the vertigo and brain zaps from effexor, but only slightly.
Posted by zeugma on March 5, 2006, at 17:22:57
In reply to Re: Yes » zeugma, posted by ed_uk on March 4, 2006, at 18:01:40
> Hi Z :)
>
> Have you taken diphenhydramine yourself?
>
> Edhi Ed,
yes, I have. But not recently (I mean since I restarted psychotropic meds a couple of years ago, and for which reason I am able to pay my phone bill). I have always suffered from allergies, and the few times I took diphenhydramine I appreciated the drying effect. But in those days it was hard enough for me to get food down my GI tract, much less swallow a pill-even OTC. But diphenhydramine did make me feel better, the few times I took it.
-z
Posted by ed_uk on March 5, 2006, at 17:22:57
In reply to Re: Yes » ed_uk, posted by zeugma on March 5, 2006, at 7:13:51
Hi Z :)
Have you ever taken diphenhydramine as a single dose at night? It might block REM-related events and improve sleep too.
Ed
Posted by zeugma on March 5, 2006, at 17:22:58
In reply to Re: Yes » zeugma, posted by ed_uk on March 5, 2006, at 13:53:16
> Hi Z :)
>
> Have you ever taken diphenhydramine as a single dose at night? It might block REM-related events and improve sleep too.
>
> EdHi Ed.
I don't know- wouldn't the sedation of two antihistaminics be too much? I barely wake up as it is. My apt. is strewn with alarm clocks, and I don't turn them off on weekends, because I can easily sleep through them if I chose to (which I did this morning). To make sure that I actually wake up, as opposed to get out of bed, take a shower, then collapse on the bed again, i take a Vivarin half an hour before I plan to 'wake.' It's my contingency plan since I stopped taking Ritalin, and implemented because it's the only way i get out of the apt. at an acceptable hour.
What is diphenhydramine's half-life?
-z
Posted by ed_uk on March 5, 2006, at 17:22:58
In reply to Re: Yes » ed_uk, posted by zeugma on March 5, 2006, at 14:53:40
Hi Z
>What is diphenhydramine's half-life?
I've read that it's 2.4 to 9.3 hours. I find it short acting myself, I can't feel it the next day if I've taken it the evening before.
Regards
Ed
Posted by yxibow on March 5, 2006, at 17:22:58
In reply to Re: Yes » zeugma, posted by ed_uk on March 5, 2006, at 16:29:59
> Hi Z
>
> >What is diphenhydramine's half-life?
>
> I've read that it's 2.4 to 9.3 hours. I find it short acting myself, I can't feel it the next day if I've taken it the evening before.
>
> Regards
>
> Ed
Off topic, but last time I used benadryl at night, it caused depression into the next day. Its kind of a shotgun approach, but may work for some. Not really what I would say is best for a long term thing in depressed patients, at least for me.
Posted by ed_uk on March 5, 2006, at 21:17:13
In reply to Re: Yes. diphenhydramine » ed_uk, posted by yxibow on March 5, 2006, at 17:08:01
Hi Yxi
>Off topic, but last time I used benadryl at night, it caused depression into the next day.
It made you feel depressed? I've never experienced that with diphenhydramine.
>Its kind of a shotgun approach
Why do you say that?
Regards
Ed
Posted by musky on March 6, 2006, at 23:07:26
In reply to Re: Yes » zeugma, posted by ed_uk on March 4, 2006, at 13:06:52
>hello:
thanks for more info on the mechanism of withdrawl. what has very effectively helped me with withdrawl is Acupuncture.. totally , safe and a non drug approach which i like.
The odd Advil if flu symptoms are a problem , otherwise acupuncuture for the insomnia and the anxiety..Musky
Hi Z :)
>
> >When people wothdraw from an SSRI the serotonin system is depleted, and they enter REM prematurely, experiencing those 'zap' sensations from cholinergic hypersensitivity, which results from the sudden aminergic weakness.
>
> Some people take diphenhydramine (Benadryl), an antihistamine and anticholinergic, to reduce the symptoms of SSRI withdrawal. I imagine the anticholinergic effect reduces the withdrawal symptoms and the antihistamine effect reduces any insomnia which may be present.
>
> Warm regards
>
> Ed
>
>
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Withdrawal | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.