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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Aileen Wernos on March 3, 2005, at 18:38:15
First a big thank you to every one leaving messages I’d thought I was going mad till I read them.
After 2years of taking anti depressants (cipramil and cipralex) I was at my happiest ever whilst taking 150mg of effexor a day. Having been depressed for most of my adult life I cannot begin to describe here how normal/happy/contented I felt. My GP suggested I reduce to 75 mg a day, so happy, I agree.I was shocked, within hours I was experiencing electric shocks /numbness, increased sweating and light headedness. After days I still experienced all the aforementioned plus racing heart beat, increased irritability and total exhaustion I would sleep all night and during the day. Because no one had explained the effect of withdrawal to me I started to think I was really losing it. A month after I returned to my GP who recommended alternating doses 75mg one day 150mg the next.
Felt better than I did the shocks have gone went but then I had incredible vivid nightmares. After a month I cut down to 75mg a day I felt down and I started to drink as well during the day I was really nasty to my husband and it nearly cracked our relationship We still hold down our own business but I am really irritable and paranoid about the people around me. It got worse I started to feel suicidal and question it all. I have other issues in my life right now particularly being a witness I Court in April I have upped my own dose back to 150mg a day at least I know what to expect ( a f*cking rough ride when I do come off ) But with your help I’ll do it I’ll look at the site for inspiration when I need to. Thank you.
Posted by SLS on March 5, 2005, at 7:10:09
In reply to Thank You in the case of Effexor withdrawal info, posted by Aileen Wernos on March 3, 2005, at 18:38:15
Hi.
I don't understand why you and your doctor lowered the dosage of Effexor. If it works, you can take it for the rest of your life at 150mg. If you become depressed after lowering the dosage to 75mg, this should indicate something to you.
You must take the same amount of Effexor every day, even when you are discontinuing it. This might necessitate getting 37.5 tablets and taking a total of 112.5mg per day in divided doses (75mg morning + 37.5mg night).
- Scott
Posted by bruin on March 5, 2005, at 10:59:47
In reply to Re: Thank You in the case of Effexor withdrawal info, posted by SLS on March 5, 2005, at 7:10:09
"If you become depressed after lowering the dosage to 75mg, this should indicate something to you." Yes, that you are in withdrawal. Return of symptoms is so consistently mistaken as a reason to go back to the med or up the dose. My guess is that cutting a dose in half is the only culprit. ONce again, here are a list of withdrawal reactions to keep an eye out for. Next time you'll know better than to make such a cut because most doctors don't know what the hell they are talking about when it comes to tapering off these meds.
Personally, you'd be better off if you didn't view the drug as your savior, but rather as a stop measure which is now a major source of your problems. WHen cutting again, only cut 5-10% and wait for the body to stabilize before going again. Next time a mantra that is helpful is reminding yourself that it is the drug and not you that is causing this. However, the first thing you gotta realize, in my opinion, is that the drug is not the source of your salvation, but is causing you most of your problems.Here are common withdrawal symptoms:
Mind racing and unable to control thoughts and processes of the mind.
Panic attacks worsening.
Hot surges running through body.
Horrible nightmares.
Obsessive thoughts. (Going to lose it and kill somebody)
Just can't seem to feel any more.
Feeling like a zombie. Absolutely emotionless.
Physically numb. Could not even feel the water hit my body in the shower.
Lost all taste of food.
Severe dizziness. Felt like going to pass out or lose control.
Sleeping with light on because of the fear.
Feel disconnected. Really drugged out most of the time.
Heart palpitations and tightness in the head.
Flashes of memories and images from the past. (Uncontrollable)
Drugs have taken personal identity away, made feel unable to function like a normal human being.
Completely lost grip and hate to go out and be around people. Don't even feel comfortable with family.
Feeling like it will never end.
Feeling foggy and drugged out.
Urge to jump out of a fast moving car.
Feeling like I need to take life to end all of this.
Extreme head pain.
More depressed than before starting SSRI's.
Not sure will ever be your old self again.
A feeling of unreality.
Convinced of having some rare and fatal disease.
Hormones go completely wild during menstruation. (Never happened before SSRI usage)
fatigue and problem in hands (predominantly left)
which has become less tremors, more pain and slight stiffness and is
spreading up (left) arm and into shoulder.
Head and body seem to feel detached from each other.
Feeling like "in Hell." Can't go to see doctor or to the hospital because I am afraid they will prescribe more medication or put me in the mental ward.
Bleeding from the nose, heavily.
Nausea
Feeling like electrical current is running up and down spine
Memory loss with apathy
In a fog, can't concentrate
Nipple discharge
Loss of sex drive
Manic/depressive episodes
Weight gain of over 40 pounds
(List of side effects from one individual since starting SSRI's) Mind racing, nightmares, obsessive thoughts, can't "feel" anymore, zombie, disconnected, memory flashes, hate to be around people, feeling like it will never end, foggy, urge to jump out of fast moving car, more depressed, not sure will ever be old self again, feeling of unreality, numbness in pinky and ring finger on left hand and sever chills.
Head jerking and muscle spasms
Numbness in genitals
Memory loss
Loss of sexual drive
Swelled penis
Sudden and excessive weight gain
Hating people, do not want to be around people anymore
Tremors, sudden jerky movements of muscles, extreme sensitivity to sound
Out of control, divorced husband that was loved and now can't even explain why. Hopeless
Suicidal
Inner restlessness
Can't focus, hard to read words
Worsening of acne
Falling asleep at random times and not even remembering it (people telling the person this is happening)
Can hardly stand to look at anything anymore
Severe hot flashes while asleep
Difficult having an orgasm
Very aggressive dreams, dream of having battles with people from past
Severe mood changes, tremors in hands more hyperactive
Heavy sweating and electrical shocks that seem to come from within the side of the head
Milky discharge from nipples and very hot flashes and sweating while asleep
Can't seeeee comptur skrenn clearrlyyyy
Breast are getting larger, nipples harder and sticking out about 1" and swelling
Awake several nights of the week all night and have gained 30 pounds in less than one year
Urge to drink excessively, never had this problem before. Feel like in pure hell, manic one moment, deeply depressed the next, severe headaches, sweating, nightmares, panic and fear
Feet stay cold and can't seem to get them warm
Have not had sex for over one year since starting Prozac
Need for increased dose for same symptom, depression and severe cleaning compulsion are back and already at 100 mg daily of Prozac
I quit, doing crazy things. On the way to work stopped and got a tattoo. Hate tattoos!
Sleepy all of the time
Dramatic weight loss
Manic depression, numbness of body, tremors, racing thoughts, hot flashes, hallucinations, voices and echoes
Excessive or "fake" happiness-not able to feel "normal" sadness or cry at all
Feeling like an incomplete person without sexual feelings
Feel like going to stop breathing
Cold for hours after jogging
Extremely paranoid, feeling like someone is standing outside of the shower with a knife-ready to kill me, constantly looking over my shoulder all of the time and jumping at every noise
Muscle and joint pains
Strange and vivid dreams with erratic sleep patterns
Nightmares, flashbacks, severe night sweats and feel sense of unrest
No emotion and brain twitches
Felt like on a come down from acid for the whole time taking SSRI, saw tracers (shadows when things were moving) could not sleep, felt suicidal and more depressed than before
Itchy, rashes on inside of legs, knees, under arms and back, hot sweats and flushes, very depressed, being very rude and short tempered
Severe mood swings, angry most of the time and violent
Lost everything
Lost job
dizziness and low blood sugar
Just don't care anymore
Flash anger, verbal aggression and uncontrolled bouts of swearing
Pain in the lower left hand side of the stomach
Sleeping A LOT (13 hours a night)
Self mutilation
Cutting self
Tongue pain at night
Ears ring all the time since (tinnitus)
Total inability to have an orgasm (female)
Breathing Difficulty
Uncontrollable bouts of anger during which I can't even talk to anyone- totally overreacting to different situations.
Delayed sleep pattern, 1 hour later each day, turning the clock around during one year
Craving for sugar or protein or vitamin c
Changing my mind every minute, completely paranoid
Completely paralyzed by not knowing what to do or where I was going or what I can do when I feel like this
Delayed ejaculation and subtle loss of genital sensitivity--still persists 3 years after finishing medication
Annoying dizzy spells that have intensified the longer I have been off of Paxil
Alzheimer's Condition dramatically accelerated
Hot flashes and profuse sweating
Lethargic
After two days, woke up with left hand and arm numb, feel disconnected, headachy and anxious
Heard noises that weren't real: electronic humming/buzzing, doorbells, and voices. Would look for source, but find nothing. Sometimes, just moving my head would make the noises change or go away.
TONGUE FEELS LIKE IT HAS BEEN STUCK IN AN ELECTRICAL OUTLET
Severe constipation even Metamucil is not working feeling real bloated and starting to get depressed
> Hi.
>
> I don't understand why you and your doctor lowered the dosage of Effexor. If it works, you can take it for the rest of your life at 150mg. If you become depressed after lowering the dosage to 75mg, this should indicate something to you.
>
> You must take the same amount of Effexor every day, even when you are discontinuing it. This might necessitate getting 37.5 tablets and taking a total of 112.5mg per day in divided doses (75mg morning + 37.5mg night).
>
>
> - Scott
Posted by SLS on March 5, 2005, at 13:10:10
In reply to Re: Thank You in the case of Effexor withdrawal info, posted by bruin on March 5, 2005, at 10:59:47
"If you become depressed after lowering the dosage to 75mg, this should indicate something to you."
> Yes, that you are in withdrawal.
How would you go about differentiating depression as a withdrawal symtom from relapse?
> Return of symptoms is so consistently mistaken as a reason to go back to the med or up the dose.
This is true of anxiety and several somatic symptoms.
Where can you find evidence that depression can appear exclusively as a symptom of withdrawal such that it resolves spontaneously without further treatment?
> Personally, you'd be better off if you didn't view the drug as your savior, but rather as a stop measure which is now a major source of your problems.
How would you know exactly what her problems are at this juncture such that you are willing to prescribe for her treatment or non-treatment?
- Scott
Posted by bruin on March 5, 2005, at 21:52:56
In reply to Re: Thank You in the case of Effexor withdrawal info » bruin, posted by SLS on March 5, 2005, at 13:10:10
"How would you go about differentiating depression as a withdrawal symtom from relapse?"
Seeing that it is so common that would be my first inclination and I would allow it to run its course simply because reupping the dose of meds isn't going to solve a thing and often causes more problems. It would be my first inclination because I have seen it hundreds of times. The only way to find out properly is to taper properly while religously following a comprehensive approach to total foundational health. Nonetheless, there is no test, but rather thousands of people who have suffered coming off these neurotoxins.
"How would you know exactly what her problems are at this juncture such that you are willing to prescribe for her treatment or non-treatment"
How could I? It takes a professional who can take a history and make a comprehensive plan. I just make general suggestions based on experience. However, I certainly wouldn't make a veiled suggestion that making a 50% cut in Effexor producing depression should "indicate something to you". That is too much, too fast and anyone would be depressed from the chaos that could unleash on the CNS, let alone the very specific withdrawal symptom of depression. I suppose we come from different schools of thought and that is fine, but I am fairly adamant in how I view these drugs and I am very confident I am right. I hope that doesn't sound arrogant, because it wasn't meant to. Take care
> "If you become depressed after lowering the dosage to 75mg, this should indicate something to you."
>
> > Yes, that you are in withdrawal.
>
> How would you go about differentiating depression as a withdrawal symtom from relapse?
>
> > Return of symptoms is so consistently mistaken as a reason to go back to the med or up the dose.
>
> This is true of anxiety and several somatic symptoms.
>
> Where can you find evidence that depression can appear exclusively as a symptom of withdrawal such that it resolves spontaneously without further treatment?
>
> > Personally, you'd be better off if you didn't view the drug as your savior, but rather as a stop measure which is now a major source of your problems.
>
> How would you know exactly what her problems are at this juncture such that you are willing to prescribe for her treatment or non-treatment?
>
>
> - Scott
Posted by SLS on March 6, 2005, at 6:00:18
In reply to Re: Thank You in the case of Effexor withdrawal info, posted by bruin on March 5, 2005, at 21:52:56
Hi.
> "How would you go about differentiating depression as a withdrawal symtom from relapse?"
> Seeing that it is so commonI don't agree at all.
Actually, if you were to take inventory here on Psycho-Babble, you would find that it seems never to occur as a withdrawal symptom, but rather as a depressive rebound that continues as the original depression beyond withdrawal for which treatment remains indicated.
> that would be my first inclination and I would allow it to run its course
I think it would be a judgment call that is very difficult to make. I don't know what I would do in a situation like that. I might want to allow time to pass to be able to evaluate the persistence of the depression first before moving on.
> simply because reupping the dose of meds isn't going to solve a thing and often causes more problems.
I disagree. If the medication had been effective and the side effects acceptable, restarting treatment at the previously effective dosage would solve everything and cause fewer problems.
> It would be my first inclination because I have seen it hundreds of times.
I'm curious as to how you come to observe hundreds of people undergo discontinuation syndromes.
> The only way to find out properly is to taper properly while religously following a comprehensive approach to total foundational health.
The ONLY way? That sounds quite idyllic. You're right, though. If during the course of a conservative taper, depression reappears, you will have most likely found relapse.
> Nonetheless, there is no test,
Test for what?
> but rather thousands of people who have suffered coming off these
Is "thousands" your approximation or someone else's. Sounds good to me, but I am still very curious as to from where you draw your statistics.
> neurotoxins.
Precisely what is a neurotoxin in your estimation?
> "How would you know exactly what her problems are at this juncture such that you are willing to prescribe for her treatment or non-treatment"> How could I? It takes a professional who can take a history and make a comprehensive plan.
So, then, you are a professional?
> I just make general suggestions based on experience.
I don't think it is sound medical procedure to offer generalized suggestions for treatment based on individual experience.
> However, I certainly wouldn't make a veiled suggestion that making a 50% cut in Effexor producing depression should "indicate something to you".
To you, it seemed "veiled", but I chose my words to provoke thought and not to make a determination that I couldn't possibly be sure of.
> That is too much, too fast and anyone would be depressed
How have you determined this? Can you submit some medical precedent for this statement?
I disagree. It seems rather common according to my own experience, observations of people whom I am acquainted, and a bunch of people here on Psycho-Babble.
> from the chaos that could unleash on the CNS,
I think the application of most drugs results in a rather orderly change in receptors and neurohumors. If anything, allowing a severe withdrawal reaction allows for chaotic brain activity, but that is only my guess.
> I suppose we come from different schools of thought and that is fine, but I am fairly adamant in how I view these drugs and I am very confident I am right. I hope that doesn't sound arrogant, because it wasn't meant to.
If anyone can claim arrogance, it would be me.
:-)
I appreciate your passion and compassion.
- Scott
Posted by ed_uk on March 6, 2005, at 10:25:11
In reply to Thank You in the case of Effexor withdrawal info, posted by Aileen Wernos on March 3, 2005, at 18:38:15
Hi,
I think it's important to remember that Aileen said:
'I was at my happiest ever whilst taking 150mg of effexor a day. Having been depressed for most of my adult life I cannot begin to describe here how normal/happy/contented I felt.'
Unless there was a clear medical reason why her dose needed to be reduced, I think she would probably be better off if she continued to take 150mg a day.
Ed.
Posted by jodigirl on March 6, 2005, at 12:13:52
In reply to Thank You in the case of Effexor withdrawal info, posted by Aileen Wernos on March 3, 2005, at 18:38:15
I know the feeling. You start to be in remission and your doc and you discuss tapering off and then a stressor or two hit (like being a witness in court or an issue with a person) and *bang* the tapering did not seem like such a great idea in retrospect. But we cannot be Monday morning quarterbacks. Hang in there. Hopefully you were combining therapy with the pills. Try to rely on the skills you learned in therapy. (that's what I try to do and it helps me keep the mg levels of the pills down). Hang in there lady and remember that you *are* in control of your life!!! Be gentle and patient with yourself. And remember to find something really fun to do for yourself today. ;-)
Posted by aileen wernos on March 20, 2005, at 18:22:34
In reply to Re: Thank You in the case of Effexor withdrawal info, posted by SLS on March 5, 2005, at 7:10:09
Thank you all for your kind words and support U found it fscinating to read your comments and I do not feel as alone with it all.Except for a few side effects,I would be happy to stay on my current dose for ever so why don't the doctors agree? Any thoughts?
Posted by ed_uk on March 20, 2005, at 18:56:02
In reply to Thank You@SLS,Bruin,ed_UK,Jodigirl, posted by aileen wernos on March 20, 2005, at 18:22:34
Hello,
What side effects do you have?
Ed.
Posted by jodigirl on March 20, 2005, at 19:02:58
In reply to Thank You@SLS,Bruin,ed_UK,Jodigirl, posted by aileen wernos on March 20, 2005, at 18:22:34
My doc would have let me continue with Effexor XR forever so long as the med was effective. With respect to side effects, my suggestion is that you keep a journal of *all* side effects. You should communicate with your doc. Remember that you are a team with your doc. You are not going this alone. Depending on how long you have had the side effects and what the side effects are, the doc may be able to tweak with the dosage. But you need to be an active participant in the medication management. You need to be able to communicate *specifics* with the doctor. Write notes, document, be your own best advocate!!
Posted by aileen wernos on March 23, 2005, at 15:22:06
In reply to Re: Thank You@SLS,Bruin,ed_UK,Jodigirl » aileen wernos, posted by ed_uk on March 20, 2005, at 18:56:02
> Hello,
>
> What side effects do you have?
>
> Ed.low sex drive ,apathy I drink more alcohol.
Posted by aileen wernos on March 23, 2005, at 15:30:55
In reply to Re: Thank You@SLS,Bruin,ed_UK,Jodigirl, posted by jodigirl on March 20, 2005, at 19:02:58
> My doc would have let me continue with Effexor XR forever so long as the med was effective. With respect to side effects, my suggestion is that you keep a journal of *all* side effects. You should communicate with your doc. Remember that you are a team with your doc. You are not going this alone. Depending on how long you have had the side effects and what the side effects are, the doc may be able to tweak with the dosage. But you need to be an active participant in the medication management. You need to be able to communicate *specifics* with the doctor. Write notes, document, be your own best advocate!!
Thanks for that my GP is very good but I haven't got to know him properly yet. I think because i was so happy he thought it ideal to come of. I had just got married,now we are barely holding it together.I am feeling better since doubling the dose back myself.What dose are you on and have you tried coming off or reducing?
Posted by jodigirl on March 23, 2005, at 15:33:05
In reply to Re: Thank You@SLS,Bruin,ed_UK,Jodigirl, posted by aileen wernos on March 23, 2005, at 15:22:06
> > Hello,
> >
> > What side effects do you have?
> >
> > Ed.
>
> low sex drive ,apathy I drink more alcohol.
It is my understanding that low sex drive is a side effect. But, apathy and alcohol abuse are symptoms of depression. You really should contact your doctor ASAP. Mixing medications and alcohol is counterproductive. Moreover, feeling apathetic and feeling like you need to self medicate with alcohol suggest to even me (a humble non-professional) that you should talk to a mental health professional. Please remember -- you need to be *active* in your recovery. Self medication is not being active. Being active is communicating with your psychiatrist and therapist. They cannot help you if you do not talk with them.
Posted by jodigirl on March 23, 2005, at 15:38:43
In reply to Re: Thank You@SLS,Bruin,ed_UK,Jodigirl, posted by aileen wernos on March 23, 2005, at 15:30:55
> > My doc would have let me continue with Effexor XR forever so long as the med was effective. With respect to side effects, my suggestion is that you keep a journal of *all* side effects. You should communicate with your doc. Remember that you are a team with your doc. You are not going this alone. Depending on how long you have had the side effects and what the side effects are, the doc may be able to tweak with the dosage. But you need to be an active participant in the medication management. You need to be able to communicate *specifics* with the doctor. Write notes, document, be your own best advocate!!
>
> Thanks for that my GP is very good but I haven't got to know him properly yet. I think because i was so happy he thought it ideal to come of. I had just got married,now we are barely holding it together.I am feeling better since doubling the dose back myself.What dose are you on and have you tried coming off or reducing?I was up to 350 mg. I combined it with Topamax. That stabilized me enough that I could talk with a therapist. Then I hit remission!!! ;-D So I started tapering off. I went to about 150 mg and then the Effexor stopped working for me and I went off it and switched last month to Cymbalta. I am back in remission (with medications) at 60 mg Cymbalta. By remission I mean, symptom free for the clinical length of time. You can do it too!!!!
Posted by aileen wernos on March 24, 2005, at 15:00:31
In reply to Re: Thank You@SLS,Bruin,ed_UK,Jodigirl, posted by jodigirl on March 23, 2005, at 15:33:05
I'll try thanks for the support
Posted by aileen wernos on March 24, 2005, at 15:02:55
In reply to Re: Thank You@SLS,Bruin,ed_UK,Jodigirl, posted by jodigirl on March 23, 2005, at 15:38:43
I hope so I am going to try again from 23/4/05. I hope things work out for you too.
This is the end of the thread.
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