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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by laima on October 12, 2006, at 14:07:35
I have typically been a responsable drinker, within the reasonable guidelines that we've all heard about, and often took "breaks" pretty easily, anyway. The last 5 weeeks or so have been full of massive stressors, such as getting attacked, discovering someone I was doing business with was cheating me, etc- every week it seemed like something of that magnitude occured, one blow after another. Lo and behold, drinking 1-2 glasses wine several nights per week has rapidly become most of the bottle, just about daily. I'm getting a bit freaked out that this time, it's awfully hard to stay away. I'm sure this extra alcohol is contributing to worsening mood. Is 4-5 weeks of excessive drinking actually enough to become addicted??? Or could this be psychological at this stage? And does anyone have any ideas, from experience, about how I can nip this now, and Just Stop before it gets way out of hand? Thank you.
Posted by Declan on October 12, 2006, at 19:47:36
In reply to getting concerned about drinking too much lately, posted by laima on October 12, 2006, at 14:07:35
No, there's no risk of physical addiction at that level, IMO.
It's not good for you (as you know).
I find it hard to have breaks myself.
5pm and I've changed my mind about no drink tonight.
Posted by laima on October 12, 2006, at 19:57:02
In reply to Re: getting concerned about drinking too much late » laima, posted by Declan on October 12, 2006, at 19:47:36
Thank you, Declan. So you would suspect it's a psychological crutch or habit at this point then? That would be easier to deal with, manage. (Though obviouisly not at all easy.)> No, there's no risk of physical addiction at that level, IMO.
> It's not good for you (as you know).
> I find it hard to have breaks myself.
> 5pm and I've changed my mind about no drink tonight.
Posted by Declan on October 12, 2006, at 23:53:49
In reply to Re: getting concerned about drinking too much late » Declan, posted by laima on October 12, 2006, at 19:57:02
Yes. With wine half a bottle isn't a bad place to draw a line. (Half a bottle of spirits is another.)
Currently I try (with some success) to draw the line at 2 standard drinks a day.
I've never been physically addicted to alcohol....you'd need to work at it.
Posted by laima on October 13, 2006, at 10:44:56
In reply to Re: getting concerned about drinking too much late » laima, posted by Declan on October 12, 2006, at 23:53:49
Thank you. But what if several times now, I've crossed that line?
Like a couple times a week. Sure- like anyone, I had a bout or two of binge drinking in college or whatever- but this feels creepier. Maybe I should just plain pour the second half of the bottle away, I wonder, even though that's so wasteful. Thanks.> Yes. With wine half a bottle isn't a bad place to draw a line. (Half a bottle of spirits is another.)
> Currently I try (with some success) to draw the line at 2 standard drinks a day.
> I've never been physically addicted to alcohol....you'd need to work at it.
Posted by Declan on October 13, 2006, at 13:40:22
In reply to Re: getting concerned about drinking too much late » Declan, posted by laima on October 13, 2006, at 10:44:56
(even now!) who had this problem. Hep C, bad liver results, depression, anxiety, and she needed a drink at the end of the day. The line was drawn at the half bottle of wine a night, and the bottle carefully halved and that part not consumed poured into a decanter (and left there!). I was just asking myself why the remainder was not left in the bottle. The reason is that the hand in such cases can be quicker than the eye, and takes orders from the subconcious. A scrupulously fair division between the 2 halves *tended* to prevent the kinds of internal arguments that permitted a quick extra wine grab. (Once it's down the hatch, or in the glass, who can take it back?).
So you can do that instead of pouring it out. Or you can buy half bottles, but the value is bad.
Posted by laima on October 13, 2006, at 14:54:15
In reply to I have a friend » laima, posted by Declan on October 13, 2006, at 13:40:22
Hi Declan,Thanks again for more info, and for your responses and concern. I really appreciate. Yes, I noticed those "4 packs" of wine- bad value, but easier portion conrol, so possibly worth the extra cost temporarily, at least. Usually. The good news is, I just had full blood workup just about 2 weeks ago, and despite the abuse I put myself through, liver and kidneys and pancreas still inexplicably in excellent shape. (Only concern was borderline anemia- but I don't think that is related-though I read recently extreme stress can contribute to iron depletion.)
Geez, I feel almost cursed stresswise, or under some kind of spell. Last night my 7 floor building caught on fire, and I'm on 6. I heard noise in the hall, and opened my door, just to find tons of smoke and the fire dept with a loudspeaker saying, "Everybody stay in your apartment with door tightly shut!. Later, "All clear- fire put out on 4". But the hall was still smokey..and guess what.."Alchohol Reduction Plan" faltered badly, again.
It's really peculiar to me that I have klonopin, so why do I want the alcohol?? Looking for an "escape" from reality in a way. A desire for some kind of "reality adjustment". It's gotten WAY too cold for my premium stress reducer- outdoor bikerides in the sun, so I need to come up with something else. The gym is great- but not exactly nearly as effective, satisfying, or fun. And no sunlight. Like I said, a truely strange rash of really stressful events, most totally out of my control. I don't get it. And no, that chocolate-with-advil nonsense we read about last summer didn't work. :)
Anyway, I like that idea of actually drawing lines on the wine bottle- that's a really good one. No "looks a little kind of like half, in a way" that way! I'm so happy you shared that story.
Be well,
Laima
Posted by Phillipa on October 13, 2006, at 22:18:02
In reply to Re: I have a friend » Declan, posted by laima on October 13, 2006, at 14:54:15
Yeah I'm missing being out late too riding my bike so what now? You can only stay on the computer for so long. And I can't shop each day no money. What now????Love Phillipa gee I loved my 6 beers a night
Posted by Lindenblüte on October 24, 2006, at 11:08:33
In reply to Re: I have a friend » laima, posted by Phillipa on October 13, 2006, at 22:18:02
hi Laima,
My cravings for alcohol tend to be very closely correlated with my mental instability.When I'm getting better, the cravings are gone.
When I'm getting worse, often the first symptom is a craving for alcohol. Even if I don't indulge, I may find myself sinking into a phase with more depression.
Given the upheaval and stress in your life, you may consider how you can calm down a bit without putting alcohol in your body.
Meditation- even starting with only 5 minutes, or a guided relaxation exercise (there are tons of free ones available as yoga or meditation podcasts) can help you regain a sense of being grounded in the here and now.
I told my pdoc that I was self medicating with alcohol in the evenings, for anxiety. He looked at me very closely and asked me what I drank. (wine or beer) how much? 1 or 2 glasses (meaning 2 glasses). I told him beer is better because the bottles have portion control built in. I told him that wine was bad because once I open a bottle I finish it in 2 or 3 days (2 days). He prescribed me klonopin and said it was much safer than alcohol.
Think of the alcohol consumption as a symptom, rather than as a disorder. What is it a symptom for? How can you treat the underlying problem? What's causing your depression/anxiety/instability? Is it time that you reevaluate your treatment regimen, if you cannot modify your lifestyle at this point?
Well, at anyrate, I know this post is from 10 days ago, how are you doing these days?
I haven't had a drink in 3 weeks. It's been so hard, but I've been good- popping my klonopins when I feel like things are starting to spin out of control.
-Li
Posted by AuntieMel on October 24, 2006, at 16:21:53
In reply to getting concerned about drinking too much lately, posted by laima on October 12, 2006, at 14:07:35
If you can quit, you are not addicted.
If you can't (or can't without help) you are.
It takes different amounts for different people - so be careful.
Posted by laima on October 24, 2006, at 16:30:43
In reply to Re: getting concerned about drinking too much late, posted by AuntieMel on October 24, 2006, at 16:21:53
Well thank god, with effort and distractions, I haven't had a drink all week. So hopefully at this stage it is "just" a psychological addiction- like too many cookies. The plan is to go for a "dry month", at least, to stabilize matters. Thank you, Mel, and everyone, for your input.> If you can quit, you are not addicted.
>
> If you can't (or can't without help) you are.
>
> It takes different amounts for different people - so be careful.
Posted by laima on October 24, 2006, at 16:39:12
In reply to Re: I have a friend, posted by Lindenblüte on October 24, 2006, at 11:08:33
Thank you,I am getting socked with really bad news and weird things every few days right now, so that's not helping. Definately, I noticed that emotional instability leads to more drinking-despite the fact that overdrinking, or drinking while feeling awful, only makes things worse.
Classic Meditation is hard right now because I'm too rattled. Let's see- this week- I got fired from a volunteer job for calling in sick too often due to lingering nausea from iron pills (talk about lame). They say I am just about anemic, last week my 7 floor building caught on fire big time- and I'm on 6th floor, and I lost another business associate because they collapsed financially. Ah. It's been like that since late August.
Biking outdoors by the peaceful lake has been my premium non-meditation meditation all summer- very effective- but it's 30 degrees F out now. And I do go to yoga- but it's just not enough. Only once a week. The nausea still makes it hard- and nothing seems to be aleviating it, though I've been to my gp- who is just like, oh- try some more prevacid. So I'm trying...but that stuff isn't working, and I read it's not good to take long term because it impairs vitamin absorption; you need stomache acid to get nutrients out of food and vitamins.
Thank you for your long message and suggestions and encouragement. I'm trying to hang in there.
Laima
Posted by Lindenblüte on October 24, 2006, at 17:11:09
In reply to Re: I have a friend » Lindenblüte, posted by laima on October 24, 2006, at 16:39:12
>And I do go to yoga- but it's just not enough. Only once a week.
That's awesome! good for you :) Can you practice a few poses every evening when you get home from work? or in the morning? whenever you feel you need a bit of "centering"? Maybe something simple where your tummy stays in it's "full and upright position"?>The nausea still makes it hard- and nothing seems to be aleviating it, though I've been to my gp- who is just like, oh- try some more prevacid. So I'm trying...but that stuff isn't working, and I read it's not good to take long term because it impairs vitamin absorption; you need stomache acid to get nutrients out of food and vitamins.
>
> Thank you for your long message and suggestions and encouragement. I'm trying to hang in there.
>You're doing really well regarding the alcohol consumption, by the way. Keep doing what you're doing. Despite the upheaval in your life right now, you are able to make good choices, and that's what will keep you afloat until a life raft spots you!
Nausea? oh you have my sympathies. Forgive me if I say anything that people have already suggested to you. Supposedly Feosol (Elemental Iron) is supposed to be easier to tolerate than the Ferrous Sulfate which is cheaper and more common.
I get barfy from Iron supplements too. I try to take mine at night, right before I pass out on seroquel.
I've given up on trying to be a high-iron person. I'm always going to be a little bit low, but I avoid anemia by eating red meat when I get a chance, or turkey. Chicken is good too.
Bean and legume iron is not easily absorbed.
Black tea will block absorption of iron from food or supplements. Vitamin C will enhance it. Spinach contains something that blocks it, ironic, as spinach is often touted as a vegetable source of iron. Maybe it's oxalate? I can't remember.
If you can eat liver, consider whether liver would make you less nauseous than supplements.
and do take care of yourself. Instead of having a glass of wine every night, how about a cup of soothing peppermint tea, with some candied ginger on the side? Both of these are nice because they will keep your tummy (and your mind!) relaxed. Just holding on to a cup of hot tea forces one to slow down and wait a bit. Sounds like you could use a little dose of that, maybe?
-Li
Posted by WhyandHow on November 17, 2006, at 22:36:12
In reply to getting concerned about drinking too much lately, posted by laima on October 12, 2006, at 14:07:35
Everyone is different but if you continue that way you will eventually progress into the world of aloholism. for some it could happen real soon (like me). For others, it may take a lot longer. regular use will eventually create a problem - "problem" being defined differently by different people. The worst part about alcoholism and addiction is that the chemicle clouds your judegment as to weather it is a problem or not AS it becomes one. I would not get to worked up over it at this point since you are recognising where you are at etc. If you have any biological parents or grandparents that had a problem with any chemical then be EXTRA careful.
Posted by nolegirl23 on January 29, 2007, at 18:22:23
In reply to getting concerned about drinking too much lately, posted by laima on October 12, 2006, at 14:07:35
>
> I have typically been a responsable drinker, within the reasonable guidelines that we've all heard about, and often took "breaks" pretty easily, anyway. The last 5 weeeks or so have been full of massive stressors, such as getting attacked, discovering someone I was doing business with was cheating me, etc- every week it seemed like something of that magnitude occured, one blow after another. Lo and behold, drinking 1-2 glasses wine several nights per week has rapidly become most of the bottle, just about daily. I'm getting a bit freaked out that this time, it's awfully hard to stay away. I'm sure this extra alcohol is contributing to worsening mood. Is 4-5 weeks of excessive drinking actually enough to become addicted??? Or could this be psychological at this stage? And does anyone have any ideas, from experience, about how I can nip this now, and Just Stop before it gets way out of hand? Thank you.
>
>Hi laima -
You just described me to a T.
I went wild in college, but since then, I have pretty much kept my drinking in check.
After an inpatient hospital stay, I picked up a second job at a restaurant to help pay off my co-pay.
There I was introduced to wine.
And damn, do I love the stuff.Like you, i went from a glass or two a night, onto a full bottle a night, and sometimes, I dare say,
I go and get a second bottle - yikes!I'm freaked out. I am so scared that I may have replaced my eating disorder rituals with alcohol.
But then I tell myself, "it's just wine.." It's not like I'm downing a fifth of vodka a night...
But I don't know, do I have a problem?
I really do LOVE wine, the flavor, the feeling, the relaxing effect it has on my ever racing thoughts..But.... you know the rest :)
Thanks for posting. You posted my mind :)
This is the end of the thread.
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