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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 5 of 5. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by cpallen79 on July 15, 2004, at 19:21:15
Hello,
I suffer from anxiety/depression/OCD/ADD. My PDOC actualyl volunarily described Ativan to me without my askign for it! (she knows I'm not crazy about Benzos but actually wants me to have them for anxiety on hand). I would prefer to have Valium as it is a lower potency benzo. How do I ask her to perscribe that instead after I already picked up the Ativan pills? I don't want her to think I'm trying to get benzos off her, because I'm not. What do you guys think?
Posted by cpallen79 on July 15, 2004, at 19:24:33
In reply to Valium- how to ask, posted by cpallen79 on July 15, 2004, at 19:21:15
Which Benzo is least liekly to lead to addiction, Ativan or Valium?
> Hello,
> I suffer from anxiety/depression/OCD/ADD. My PDOC actualyl volunarily described Ativan to me without my askign for it! (she knows I'm not crazy about Benzos but actually wants me to have them for anxiety on hand). I would prefer to have Valium as it is a lower potency benzo. How do I ask her to perscribe that instead after I already picked up the Ativan pills? I don't want her to think I'm trying to get benzos off her, because I'm not. What do you guys think?
Posted by guttersnipe on July 16, 2004, at 5:09:49
In reply to Re: Valium- ( I need rephrase this question), posted by cpallen79 on July 15, 2004, at 19:24:33
> Which Benzo is least liekly to lead to addiction, Ativan or Valium?
Just my $0.02, but I think there is a meaningful distinction between "addiction" on the one hand, and "discontinuation symptoms" on the other. I think that if one were to use the terms in their most precise senses, then addiction would refer only to substances being used to get high on and/or being abused, whereas discontinuation symptoms would include the nasty experiences which folks go through when they stop taking substances they weren't using to get high on nor abusing, such as the infamous Effexor (then there's yet a third phenomenon -- viz., rebound -- which simply means that the anxiety, insomnia, hypomania, and/or whatever other symptoms being treated symptomatically by the medicating substances are still present when you're unmedicated, such that you experience them in full again when you stop taking those medicating substances).
Why does this distinction matter? Well, I'm not sure that it does matter a lot for practical purposes -- either way, it sucks when you stop taking the stuff. But, it's the distinction relied upon by Big Pharma when they tell you that Effexor is a Good Medicine (even though discontinuation is often utter hell) but marijuana is a Bad Drug (even though withdrawal from very heavy herb smoking is usually just a few days of being a bit irritable and maybe having some trouble getting to sleep at night).
But just in case it does matter, then for what it's worth, in my experience Valium provides more of a high than Ativan, and is therefore probably more likely to be used for getting high and/or abused (Valium and Xanax have always commanded a certain share of the black market, but I've never heard of Ativan being sold in substantial quantities on the black market). On the other hand, from what I've heard, Ativan might be slightly more difficult for a non-abusive user to quit cold turkey after a long period of use than Valium, so you might want to be careful about making sure that you can taper off the stuff slowly, just to be safe.
Frankly, I think that people make *way* too big a fuss about the addictive potential of benzos. I took both Ativan (daily) and Xanax (sometimes daily, but often not, as it was more sedating than Ativan and I was doing intellectually demanding work at the time so I needed to stay sharp) for a few years, then when I got laid off and my insurance coverage ran out I tapered down over about 2 weeks and then quit the benzos altogether and had no real problem other than a rebound effect, which I treated with taurine and niacinamide supplements and maybe a pint of Guiness or some valerian root before bedtime. And I used to be a devoted drug addict (shooting junk & smoking rock), so according to 12-stepper theory if anyone was prone to have a problem with benzos it would have been me -- no problem, though. Similarly, I don't have a problem with any other psychoactive drugs (except when I'm in a manic or mixed state episode, but that's a whole 'nother story, which has less to do with addiction than it has to do with bad judgment ... ah, bipolarity ...).
As the traffic on this board seems to be mostly about struggling with addiction, rather than about "substance use" per se, I expect to get the usual disrespectful and self-righteous flames from the born-again 12-steppers for honestly stating my heterodox views about psychoactive substances, but I'm just calling it like I see it. I think that most (if not all) psychoactive substances can be used healthily and that they can have beneficial effects -- even including drugs which I presently opt not to use, such as heroin and cocaine. Nobody is being forced to agree with me about that, of course, but nevertheless I suspect that my remarks will not be welcomed by most of the folks who post to this board.
Anyway, as I said, them's just my $0.02. It should go without saying that different people have different experiences with psychoactive substances, and what works just fine for me might well be a recipe for disaster for someone else.
Best wishes, and I hope that you find what works for you.
Posted by Fred23 on July 16, 2004, at 19:02:12
In reply to Valium- how to ask, posted by cpallen79 on July 15, 2004, at 19:21:15
> I suffer from anxiety/depression/OCD/ADD. My PDOC actualyl volunarily described Ativan to me without my askign for it! (she knows I'm not crazy about Benzos but actually wants me to have them for anxiety on hand). I would prefer to have Valium as it is a lower potency benzo. How do I ask her to perscribe that instead after I already picked up the Ativan pills? I don't want her to think I'm trying to get benzos off her, because I'm not. What do you guys think?
Ativan takes from 1 to 4 hours to reach its peak, so wouldn't seem good for "PRN" usage in reacting to something.
Does your doctor want you to take it on a continual basis so that there simply is no anxiety?
Posted by cpallen79 on July 19, 2004, at 12:16:38
In reply to Re: Valium- how to ask » cpallen79, posted by Fred23 on July 16, 2004, at 19:02:12
Hi fred, my doc wants me to use it as needed, for sleep and whatnot. I told her I will not use a benzo on a daily basis (there is addiciton and chemical abuse issues in my famiy.) She is defientely ok with this and has not pushed me for daily use of a benzo.
> > I suffer from anxiety/depression/OCD/ADD. My PDOC actualyl volunarily described Ativan to me without my askign for it! (she knows I'm not crazy about Benzos but actually wants me to have them for anxiety on hand). I would prefer to have Valium as it is a lower potency benzo. How do I ask her to perscribe that instead after I already picked up the Ativan pills? I don't want her to think I'm trying to get benzos off her, because I'm not. What do you guys think?
>
> Ativan takes from 1 to 4 hours to reach its peak, so wouldn't seem good for "PRN" usage in reacting to something.
>
> Does your doctor want you to take it on a continual basis so that there simply is no anxiety?
>
This is the end of the thread.
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