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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by octopusprime on May 12, 2004, at 21:15:29
In reply to Re: Meds and Marijuana- Am I OK?, posted by Dauphine on May 12, 2004, at 15:19:38
ladies:
before and during my worst depressive episode, i was a chronic stoner. on the advice of my doctor, i did stop smoking weed (and gave it up cold turkey for almost two years before taking another toke)
in my opinion i needed the time away from the drugs, and it was extremely beneficial to me. the first three months were the hardest.
like dauphine, i think, i thought i was highly functional as a stoner. during that time i graduated from university with an 80% average in my classes.
since that time though i realize my mental acuity was sub-par - my short term and long term memory has really improved. better concentration too - i can read novels again.
two other major improvements happened: i no longer have to associate with somewhat less than desirable people to get drugs (had some scary buying experiences with weird people) and i had to come up with constructive ways to spend the time i used stoned before.
it took the full two years to rebuild my life to the point where smoking every day wouldn't fit. and some of the activities i took up to fill the time (playing music, riding my bike, hiking on the weekends, etc) are more likely to ward off the depression than the previous activities.
somebody asked about anti-psychotics - i couldn't sleep without smoking up before, and my doc wouldn't provide benzos because of my history of substance use. so i took 25 mg seroquel nightly, which helped to calm down the jittery swirly thoughts that prevented me from sleeping. i did feel a little lethargic (and required 9-10 hours of sleep a night), but it did help a lot.
i don't want to go all polyanna on you people, but i did think quitting helped to straighten my head out a lot. i have been smoking a few joints here and there now, and i think i need to stop because i'm sort of on the verge of breaking again.
just something to consider.
Posted by catmint on May 13, 2004, at 3:47:51
In reply to Re: Meds and Marijuana- Am I OK?, posted by ghost on May 4, 2004, at 21:38:43
Thanks for your great post. Good advice.
I'm going to start going to AA and NA meetings because I'm starting to drink more now.I did start smoking cigarettes again, and have decreased smoking pot somewhat, but today I didn't have that control, and I ended up smoking and drinking even though I know it is harmful to me.
Posted by starlight on May 13, 2004, at 11:10:11
In reply to Re: Meds and Marijuana- Am I OK?, posted by octopusprime on May 12, 2004, at 21:15:29
It's something I would like to do - but the spouse smokes as well and that makes it hard. I think my mind would be sharper without, but it's pretty habituated at this point. I don't drink much, and it doesn't seem to lower my activity level. I do yoga, work full time, have a band, record on my own, go on walks, read and all sorts of other stuff.
Still, it is something I would like to curtail, but as long as the spouse is doing it, that would make it harder.
star
Posted by catmint on May 14, 2004, at 5:15:57
In reply to Re: Meds and Marijuana- Am I OK?, posted by starlight on May 13, 2004, at 11:10:11
I totally hear ya. My spouse is an everyday user and it's always around.
I keep smoking and sometimes lately regret it. That's where AA helps. Even though they are alcoholics and I'm not, going to meetings is like free therapy. All the stories and faces help me realize I'm not alone and things could be way worse,.
Posted by Nucking Futz on May 16, 2004, at 8:21:55
In reply to Re: Meds and Marijuana- Am I OK?, posted by starlight on May 13, 2004, at 11:10:11
Hi Everyone…In regards to smoking pot I feel that I must put my 2 cents in. I have had bi-polar and GAD for a long time (diagnosed BP first in 1986 after my first severe manic episode). I have taken a pharmacy full of different med cocktails over the years (that did not work as well as my current combo), and I added marijuana last year (apx 3 grams per week) after some intense discussion with a P-doc whom I had met socially at a conference. I had not smoked for over 17 years, but for me it has proven to be very beneficial in helping stabilize my moods. I also take 3 mg (or less) per day of Klonipin to control anxiety. The anxiety is a large factor in creating a great platform for me to either fall into a pit of despair or making a good starting point for a manic flight.
One thing I have noticed in this and other forums is an expectation that meds alone will help you get to a point that you have a “life” beyond your illness. I have found this to be untrue. You must also pay attention to other environmental factors that have an effect on your mental health. Are you eating as correctly as you can? Do you exercise? (real important for depression) Do you tolerate Toxic people in your life? (this was my main downfall) There are others, but for my first post I will try not to pontificate for too long J. Don’t take this a blanket endorsement for smoking, but it has worked better for me than almost any other substance for making me stable for over 2 years. As with any med, you have to pay close attention to what effect it has on your moods as well as SE’s, which for pot includes lethargy issues and short term memory problems. If the med does not alleviate symptoms (or in some cases creates them, consult your doc and change them) I wish you all well on your search for wellness.
Posted by ghost on May 16, 2004, at 11:41:39
In reply to Re: Meds and Marijuana- Am I OK? » ghost, posted by catmint on May 13, 2004, at 3:47:51
> Thanks for your great post. Good advice.
> I'm going to start going to AA and NA meetings because I'm starting to drink more now.good for you for seeking help!
> I did start smoking cigarettes again, and have decreased smoking pot somewhat, but today I didn't have that control, and I ended up smoking and drinking even though I know it is harmful to me.
best of luck with NA/AA... and we're always here for support!
Posted by catmint on May 16, 2004, at 17:23:04
In reply to Re: Meds and Marijuana- Am I OK? » catmint, posted by ghost on May 16, 2004, at 11:41:39
hello,
I do need the support and I appreciate all of you very much.
I am a little wary to mention my drug use to my pdoc. I just got transfered to my first psychiatrist b/c my usual one is out on leave.
She is a bit conservative. i.e. won't prescribe benzos if she knew I was using.
My usual pdoc one asked me if I smoked pot. I said no, barely at all, which was not true. Someone once told me that some docs will not allow you to stay on disability(which I am on) if they know you are using.
Believe me, I don't believe smoking weed is "using" but nonetheless, I don't want to tell them. I need you guys to help me if possible.
I also have been using some cocaine. I've done it twice in the past 2 weeks. Before that, I hadn't done it for over 15 years. Problem is I loved it am looking forward to next time.
I can't blame it on my friends, but that's how it got here.
NA on Wednesday, this is the first time in my life (37 yrs.) that I might think I am starting a substance abuse problem.
Like one of the previous posters said, You don't want to end up like some of the others in NA who have taken it way to far.
I do like myself enough and believe I have the willpower to maintain my use. But I'm not sure it that is denial.
I'm not depressed at all right now. Lamictal is the best med for me.I'm not sure what I'm doing. Last advice I want is motherly.
I just really need support.
Posted by ghost on May 16, 2004, at 18:40:49
In reply to Re: Meds and Marijuana- Am I OK? » ghost, posted by catmint on May 16, 2004, at 17:23:04
stay strong, okay? i don't want to say some drugs are right and some drugs are wrong, but i was recently just screwed over bigtime by a cocaine user, so i'm biased. (i'll try to be positive, though.)
i hear cocaine is fun. i really do. i don't doubt that you look forward to doing it again-- but do you have to? what happens if you don't? what happens if you sit this next time out? maybe you could do it the time after that... but try not to turn this into a regular habit. at the risk of sounding motherly, the only way to go with those kinds of drugs is down.
a bad dose of cocaine could kill you.
personally, i wouldn't tell a pdoc or T that i use any drugs, but i'm not sure why-- i have no real tangible reason. my first pdoc used to ask me all the time if i was smoking marijuana, like he didn't believe me. it used to make me angry-- i never went to appts stoned, and i don't think i "look like" a stoner. for that, i don't often trust mental health practitioners. i'd be interested to know what the "right" answer is-- to admit to using or not. i'm not sure about the truth of losing benefits if drug use is involved, but i would not be surprised, since possessing drugs and paraphernalia is a crime.
stay strong. and keep writing.
much love,
ghost
Posted by Dauphine on May 18, 2004, at 12:46:09
In reply to Re: Meds and Marijuana- Am I OK? » catmint, posted by ghost on May 16, 2004, at 18:40:49
I was thinking this morning on the way to work about this topic/thread. It occured to me that the AD I'm taking (Effexor) is probably far stronger and more potent than smoking pot. The only difference is that Effexor is extended release and pot isn't. But there could easily be THC in a pill in XR form that would probably work like xanax or some other anti-anxiety drug. The stigma comes from inhaling it. I don't know, just a thought.
Dauphine
Posted by kazoo on May 22, 2004, at 2:18:35
In reply to Meds and Marijuana- Am I OK?, posted by catmint on May 1, 2004, at 21:47:29
Posted by Magdalena on May 25, 2004, at 23:12:05
In reply to Re: Meds and Marijuana- Am I OK? Ans: 'Yes' (nm), posted by kazoo on May 22, 2004, at 2:18:35
if pot is anxiety releaving then how come it throws me in to total paranioa/panic and it keeps me there for like 3 hours!
it wasnt fun, i think i got a fever too cause i was shivering and freezing cold..my boyfriend thought i was dying.i thought the paxil i am on would block those negative feelings...damn
Posted by kazoo on May 27, 2004, at 2:01:31
In reply to Re: Meds and Marijuana- Am I OK? Ans: 'Yes', posted by Magdalena on May 25, 2004, at 23:12:05
> if pot is anxiety releaving then how come it throws me in to total paranioa/panic and it keeps me there for like 3 hours!
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Who ever said pot relieved anxiety? Also, maybe anxiety wasn't what you were feeling to begin with.> it wasnt fun, i think i got a fever too cause i was shivering and freezing cold.
^^^^^^^^^^^^
I, too, get cold and shiver (at times) when I smoked the stuff, but this didn't happen all the time. The feelings I would get would be those of depersonalization; i.e., "not myself." I was beside myself and didn't enjoy this kind of out-of-body experience. Those times I did feel that way was triggered by either an event or person, and I deduced that I harbored certain resentment and ill-will toward someone or some thing at that time and the pot not only enhanced these feelings (and I couldn't accept them) but brought them to the surface. I stopped doing pot a long time ago. I grew up.> i thought the paxil i am on would block those negative feelings...damn
^^^^^^^^^^^
This is a kicker, my dear! You have some deep rooted fears bubbling under the surface of your unconscious, then use pot which acts as a sort of key to open the door for these feelings to invade your conscious "operating" mind, and then expect an SSRI to counter such feelings! It doesn't work that way, I'm afraid.Forget the pot, stick with the meds and enjoy life.
kazoo
Posted by Magdalena on May 27, 2004, at 9:53:13
In reply to Re: Meds and Marijuana- Am I OK? Ans: 'Yes' » Magdalena, posted by kazoo on May 27, 2004, at 2:01:31
thank you kazoo you are right, i just wanted to feel like everyone else for once, blah..i know its stupid i will not be doing that again anytime soon. i need to focus on becoming better and more myself then anything.
thanks for the reply!:)magdalena
Posted by Simcha on June 3, 2004, at 23:51:27
In reply to Re: Meds and Marijuana- Am I OK? Ans: 'Yes' » Magdalena, posted by kazoo on May 27, 2004, at 2:01:31
Boy, this is a good thread...
I've tried pot only about ten times in my life. I hate the stuff. It makes me paranoid and I feel like someone is pulling spider webs slowly off of my arms. My testicles feel like they weigh about as much as bowling balls. Then I get the munchies something fiercs. (I've always had a difficult time with my weight.) I don't sleep at all at night when I've smoked. I spend the entire next day in a dumb stupor.
I have Major Depressive Disorder with Recurrant features. There are many schitzophrenics in my family. I believe that my brain chemistry is such that I can't enjoy pot. It's too bad because it would be easy enough to get a medical marijuana license here in the SFO Bay Area. Many friends seem to enjoy this substance. I can't...
Oh well... Simcha
Posted by starlight on June 6, 2004, at 10:41:49
In reply to Re: Meds and Marijuana- Am I OK? » bride2be, posted by catmint on May 3, 2004, at 9:20:47
I told mine and he agreed to keep it confidential and then about a year and a half later I found out that he had written it in my medical chart and it was coded and thus sent to my insurance company. He also said that I was 'hopelessly addicted to pot' needless to say I think he has no buisness doctoring. If he thinks he can't help heal people then he should get out of the business. In contrast I did tell my previous Pdoc and she was great about it.
Be careful. It's better if you pay for your own therapy - at least they don't have to answer to anyone.
starlight
Posted by starlight on June 6, 2004, at 10:52:57
In reply to Re: Meds and Marijuana- Am I OK? » catmint, posted by ghost on May 16, 2004, at 18:40:49
One thing I believe is if you're having hesitation about telling him and hearing your inner voice say don't, don't! My intuition was telling me and I kept asking him if I could trust him and that should have been a signal for me to tell him that I had stopped completely - but I didn't trust my mind enough to listen to it.
star
Posted by guttersnipe on June 15, 2004, at 1:19:30
In reply to Re: Meds and Marijuana- Am I OK?, posted by starlight on June 6, 2004, at 10:52:57
There is anecdotal evidence that marijuana use helps some bipolars as a mood-stabilizer and mood lifter -- if curious, google a Harvard doc named Grinspoon for his article about anecdotal reports of successful marijuana use by bipolars. There is no methodologically rigorous study on the issue, though, for the obvious reasons that the big pharma corporations that pay for the meds studies can't make any money selling the herb ... and that it's very difficult, if not impossible, to design a double-blind placebo study about smoking weed ;-)
I am bipolar (or multi-polar, or whatever is the term in vogue now) and I use medical marijuana, with my physician's written approval, in moderation as part of a regimen of alternatives to pharma meds. When I used to smoke like a dragon, I had some dysphoric/anxious reactions to it -- but I find that in moderation (I now use only about an eighth of an ounce per month, if that much, of California kind bud), medical marijuana is useful to me. I usually smoke just one small toke or two, usually alone, to reduce the possibility of anxious or paranoid reactions. Instead of getting completely stoned silly several times a day like I used to when I abused the herb, now I use just a little bit (just enough to get me a little bit high) in the evening or at night, maybe every other or every third day ... I find that it is helpful: in addition to the other alternative treatments I'm using, the medical marijuana keeps me sailing with an even keel.
Like any drug, though, it certainly is not for everyone. From what I've read and from what I've observed, it can exacerbate schizophrenia; it can cause anxiety/paranoia in some people, at certain dosages and/or in certain settings; and in many states it is either wholly illegal because the state lacks a medical marijuana law, or is not available for bipolars under the state's medical marijuana law (I believe that Oregon's law, for example, does not legalize the use of the herb by bipolars, even though Oregonians with certain other conditions can use it).
Posted by ghost on June 15, 2004, at 9:09:26
In reply to Re: Meds and Marijuana- Am I OK?, posted by guttersnipe on June 15, 2004, at 1:19:30
Wow. That's *really* interesting!! Thanks for sharing all that stuff. I had no idea any doctor would prescribe marijuana medicinally for bipolarity. I think that's a really progressive thing to do, too.
And I'm really happy it works for you.
Posted by chemist on June 16, 2004, at 2:51:42
In reply to Re: Meds and Marijuana- Am I OK? Ans: 'Yes', posted by Simcha on June 3, 2004, at 23:51:27
hello there, chemist here....i know the spot on church in s.f. but i advise you of this: if there is family history of shizophrenia, the best thing you can do - believe it - is start smoking cigarettes. nicotine (the (S)-entaniomer) is a proven anti-schizophrenic. stay away from pot. all the best, chemist
> Boy, this is a good thread...
>
> I've tried pot only about ten times in my life. I hate the stuff. It makes me paranoid and I feel like someone is pulling spider webs slowly off of my arms. My testicles feel like they weigh about as much as bowling balls. Then I get the munchies something fiercs. (I've always had a difficult time with my weight.) I don't sleep at all at night when I've smoked. I spend the entire next day in a dumb stupor.
>
> I have Major Depressive Disorder with Recurrant features. There are many schitzophrenics in my family. I believe that my brain chemistry is such that I can't enjoy pot. It's too bad because it would be easy enough to get a medical marijuana license here in the SFO Bay Area. Many friends seem to enjoy this substance. I can't...
>
> Oh well... Simcha
Posted by ghost on June 16, 2004, at 10:50:48
In reply to Re: Meds and Marijuana- Am I OK? Ans: 'Yes' » Simcha, posted by chemist on June 16, 2004, at 2:51:42
are you serious? i'm going to have to research this... is there a way to get nicotine without smoking? (i'm asthmatic.) i wonder if the gum/etc works.
i'm not sure if i'd have the guts to try it, though. i've grown up fearing nicotine as a chemical, i guess.
Posted by chemist on June 16, 2004, at 11:21:23
In reply to Re: Meds and Marijuana- Am I OK? Ans: 'Yes' » chemist, posted by ghost on June 16, 2004, at 10:50:48
> are you serious? i'm going to have to research this... is there a way to get nicotine without smoking? (i'm asthmatic.) i wonder if the gum/etc works.
>
> i'm not sure if i'd have the guts to try it, though. i've grown up fearing nicotine as a chemical, i guess.hello there, chemist here. yes, this is serious. obviously, smoking cigarettes will help with schizophrenia but damage other pats of your body. you can get nicotine gum and patches. or, you can look into substances that chemically ``look'' like nicotine and thus might well bind to the receptor subtypes in question, the alpha_{7} and alpha_{4}beta_{2} neuronal nicotine receptors. let me know if you need more inof, hope this helps, and all the best.......chemist
Posted by ghost on June 16, 2004, at 16:40:19
In reply to Re: Meds and Marijuana- Am I OK? Ans: 'Yes' » ghost, posted by chemist on June 16, 2004, at 11:21:23
it's really fascinating. i'd love to read papers on the subject. thanks for letting me know!
Posted by chemist on June 16, 2004, at 18:47:49
In reply to Re: Meds and Marijuana- Am I OK? Ans: 'Yes' » chemist, posted by ghost on June 16, 2004, at 16:40:19
> it's really fascinating. i'd love to read papers on the subject. thanks for letting me know!
hi there.....hit pibmed and look for these authours: joel sussman; janis corey-naeve; the 17 may 2001 pub in Nature by Brejc et al.; nicolas le novere; jean-pierre changeux; schmitt et al. in j. med. chem. 42:3066-3074 (1999); steve sine; dickerson and janda, PNAS. that should give you a good start.....also look for a review by J.D. Schmitt, cannot recall reference, think it's in Chemical Reviews, late 1990s....all the best, chemist
Posted by ghost on June 16, 2004, at 19:06:57
In reply to Re: Meds and Marijuana- Am I OK? Ans: 'Yes' » ghost, posted by chemist on June 16, 2004, at 18:47:49
Posted by Nataliee on June 29, 2004, at 10:54:20
In reply to Re: Meds and Marijuana- Am I OK? Ans: 'Yes' » ghost, posted by chemist on June 16, 2004, at 18:47:49
Hello!
I'm from Canada, so Pot is VERY available to me, and practically decriminalized where i live. I have severe OCD and clinical depression. I smoke it once a day, usually after work. It's a god-send for my panic attacks (immediate relaxedness) and its great for my OCD. BUT from experience, having another habit/addiction is not great for anyone who finds it easy to be hard on themselves, depressed or not.
I regret it sometimes, i don't have a cough yet, but i know it effects my health. I costs money, and stressing whether i "got a good cut" is often enough to trigger major anxiety.
So, in my experience, its helped AND its hurt, like any relationship someone has with a drug. If it just makes you anxious or upset, don't do it! If your friends have a problem with that, they are not your friends. If it does calm you, i recomend having some around to chill out and re-focus your life, it can be a fantastic tool in exploring your own thoughts, quietly, and alone. Don't turn it into a social thing, or you'll more likely get into a habit where you may only feel comfortable around your friends when stoned out ofyour tree. And thats no good!! just some advice from a avid pot smoker/manic depressive.
PS: It is SO important to let your Docs know if you are smoking pot! All the extra B.S it adds to your life is significant, and worth talking about. A good doc/therapist etc. will be understanding and non-judgemental. Any doctor who gives you an overly hard time about it is not worth two cents. You come to them for support, guidance and help, not a sermon or slap on the wrist.
PPS: If you do smoke the Gange, please use a bong or a vaporiser, that way, you get all the "good" with 60% less the tar and crap that will ruin your lungs.Hang in there, pot is in a grey zone, not addictive, but deffinitely habit forming, calming but not always....its an herb, so its best to be very aware of all the negatives and positives of the remedy.
keep hopefull and future bound,
Natalieeeeeeee(:
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