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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 7 to 31 of 52. Go back in thread:
Posted by Alara2 on March 12, 2004, at 9:17:46
In reply to Re: URGENT: Alcohol Withdrawal. Please help! » Alara2, posted by Tony P on March 12, 2004, at 0:47:39
> > >
> I sure can empathize. I must say, of all the (many) things I have been addicted to, I found alcohol the hardest to stick to "tapering" off - I always had to go cold turkey - but if you can do it, more power to you. From the quantites you describe (depending somewhat on your body weight and how long you've been drinking at that level), you're probably not in too much danger of seizures, but it can get pretty darn uncomfortable.
>
> If you can't get into a detox quickly/easily, have you consulted your family doctor? Many detoxes now use Valium or clonazepam to ease withdrawal and prevent seizures; if your MD is open to it, those can also be used outside a detox with frequent followup from your MD. The trick there (and I've been through it) it is to get OFF the booze right away, then taper off the benzodiazepines as quickly as possible.
>
> Robaxin (available OTC if you ask the pharmacist most places) also helps with the "shakes". If asked, say you need it for neck muscle spasms -- you probably do! There is a risk you might get hooked on that too if you take more than the package directions -- I did. DON'T mix it with booze - you can get dangerously screwed up by the combo.
>
> The worst withdrawal symptoms from alcohol go away pretty quickly, i.e in a few days to a couple of weeks for most people, but it can take up to six months to feel completely "normal" (whatever that means). A few people also experience an unexpected return of apparent withdrawal symptoms about 6 weeks after quitting - it happened to me once, I thought I was going completely crazy. Luckily I had read a book which described the exact phenomenon, so I was fairly sure it wouldn't last - and the next day I was fine!
>
> Yes, I experienced flu-like symtoms - the flip side is that I recently figured out that one of the reasons why I feel guilty when I get sick is it makes me feel like I'm detoxing again!
>
> Get as much support from other people as you can - it's hard to do it on your own. Good luck - it can be done, and it's worth it - you're worth it too! {{{{}}}} Take care, and let us know how you're doing. I care, too.
>
> Tony P
>Tony, thanks for all the good advice. After a couple of days of drinking back at my previous levels, I finally bit the bullet tonight and stuck to one glass of wine. (Probably would have slipped up and had more but fortunately that was all that I had in the house.:) ) I realise that it is still early days, but I feel physically fine, with the only problem so far being that I am wide awake at 2am! The insomnia is something that I know will plague me for a long, long time. I occasionally use Phenergan (antihistamine) as a sleeping aid - although I recently read some horrifying information about its potential side effects (similar to antipsychotics!) so I don't want to take this drug more often than I can help.
I will stick to the light beer schedule I described for the rest of the weekend and will ask my doctor on Monday for short course of benzos to help me for the rest of this detox phase. (I seem to fare much, much better with quitting via the light beer because I don't notice its effects, which makes it less tempting to get drunk.)
Tony, you really experienced a return of detox symptoms 6 weeks after withdrawing from alcohol? Whew. Thanks for the warning. This is not something that I would have anticipated and it's important to be ready for that kind of thing as I'd be likely to relapse if a return of symptoms were to take me by surprise.
I know that I need a plan too. Grief is the main reason that my drinking has spiralled so badly out of control lately - so I need a way of facing up to my feelings in a way which feels safe. AA does not really suit. Am thinking about taking a cognitive behavioural approach using the Smartec online program but still need to do some raw emotional work. Fortunately I have been through a lot of therapy and think that I have the self-insight and inner resources that I need in order to get through this.
Tony, I take it that you have been sober for a while? Would be interested in hearing about your journey - triumphs, hurdles, good times and bad.
Thanks again for the input.
Alara
Posted by Tony P on March 12, 2004, at 16:10:23
In reply to Re: URGENT: Alcohol Withdrawal. Please help!, posted by Alara2 on March 12, 2004, at 9:17:46
> Tony, thanks for all the good advice.... [...some parts snipped...]
> The insomnia is something that I know will plague me for a long, long time.
---------------------------
The famous "Jellinek curve", a big U showing stages of increasing problems followed by stages of recovery shows sleep improvement at least a third of the way up the recovery side of the curve, so, yes, don't be surprised if it takes a while.> I occasionally use Phenergan (antihistamine) as a sleeping aid - although I recently read some horrifying information about its potential side effects (similar to antipsychotics!) so I don't want to take this drug more often than I can help.
------------------
Phenergan is very closely chemically related to the earliest amd worst antipsychotics (e.g. chlorpromazine), so I'd avoid long term use. Diphenhydramine (the constituent of most OTC sleep aids these days) is a lot safer. Consult your MD about anything stronger.
>
> I will stick to the light beer schedule [...] I seem to fare much, much better with quitting via the light beer because I don't notice its effects, which makes it less tempting to get drunk.
>
------------------------
If by light beer you mean 0.5%, by all means use it for a while - there's more alcohol in some fruit juices! I have mostly stopped drinking it, not because the tiny amount of alcohol has any noticeable negative effect, but because it reminds me of drinking and could act as a trigger for relapsing.
>
> I know that I need a plan too. Grief is the main reason that my drinking has spiralled so badly out of control lately - so I need a way of facing up to my feelings in a way which feels safe.
---------------
I was sober for ten years, then had a one-month relapse immediately after separating from my wife, so I know how big a part grief (and anger) can have. I have been seeing a counsellor regularly since the relapse, and attended a treatment centre that specializes in "dual-diagnosis" - typically alcohol or other addictions plus depression/grieving.>AA does not really suit. Am thinking about taking a cognitive behavioural approach using the Smartec online program [...]
>
----------------
Find what works for you, but don't give up on AA too early. It was somewhat of a last resort for me, and it took me quite a while to get past some of the heavy-duty "God-and-AA-is-the-only-way" line from some members. Today my philosophy is "take what you need, and leave the rest at the door". But AA is not for everybody, and the official literature itself says so. Use whatever works for you, but do get as much human contact as you can, whether (sober!) friends, other recovery programs, or your local government-run counselling or group therapy.> Tony, I take it that you have been sober for a while? Would be interested in hearing about your journey - triumphs, hurdles, good times and bad.
>
> Thanks again for the input.
>
> Alara
>
---------------------
My heaviest drinking was about 25-35 years ago. After getting well into recovery, I had several relapses at increasing intervals of years, until I finally worked the AA twelve steps thoroughly with a "committed step group" (the group waits until everyone has completed a step before moving on to the next). It was after that when I got my 10 years sober in, but I'll repeat that that's only my experience - there are many routes to recovery.I now have 18 months since my last relapse at the time of my separation, and it does keep getting better. Except for one or two white-knuckle days, when I called a lot of people to keep from going off the deep end, most days (and weeks) the thought of drinking just doesn't cross my mind at all. Long-term abstinence may seem beyond thinking about for you right now, but the most helpful thing I found early on was that I could stay sober for one day at a time - that much I could imagine without freaking out!
Best of luck in your journey,
Tony P
Posted by puravida on March 21, 2004, at 23:51:39
In reply to Re: URGENT: Alcohol Withdrawal. Please help! » Alara2, posted by Tony P on March 12, 2004, at 16:10:23
Just lurking - Tony, what was the book you read that described the 6 week phenomenon?
Alara - I am active with Moderation Management - they are a harm reduction group and have a fabulous online community (actually, many communities -) I have been a two-bottle a nighter too, and did a 30 day abs, and felt the panic like you are describing. I had some serax that helped me through those days - toward the end of he first week was rough - and it was a physical feeling. Check out MM, too - I really like the philosophy -
PV
Posted by Sophie33 on March 31, 2004, at 4:13:58
In reply to Re: URGENT: Alcohol Withdrawal. Please help! » Alara2, posted by Tony P on March 12, 2004, at 16:10:23
Hi Alara!
Seems that we have something in common-I too had a 1 and a half bottle of wine per night habit and have been "sober" for 3 days now. I only drank at night-basically so I could sleep-I was suffering insomnia for a few weeks and went out one night-had one too many glasses of wine and fell asleep no problem! THought I was onto something-but for the past few weeks I have been waking up at 3/4/5 am and not being able to fall asleep again-so I've decided to give up the wine "cold turkey".
Withdrawl symtoms: headache, tiredness, flu-like, some trouble sleeping, chills. But, overall, I feel better in the sense that I don't have that "hangover" feeling every day.
I've had several "one/two" month drinking "binges" and then am able to just have the occasional drink-but somehow-within a few months I start to over indulge once again. I guess I have a somewhat addictive personality.
The funny thing is, my husband had NO IDEA I have been drinking this quantity every night-so he has NO IDEA what I'm going through-he thinks I'm just under the wheather. We would usually have a glass or two of wine with dinner.
I really hope my withdrawl symtoms don't get any worse and I hope I can get through this alone. How are you doing??? Please let me know.
Also, if anyone can give me any support I'd appreciate it. Thanks in advance.
Sophie33
Posted by Tony P on April 5, 2004, at 1:15:39
In reply to Tony - name of book? » Tony P, posted by puravida on March 21, 2004, at 23:51:39
> Just lurking - Tony, what was the book you read that described the 6 week phenomenon?
>
Sorry about the tardy reply.I believe it was Games Alcoholics Play, by Claude Steiner.
Read Steiner with a grain of salt, though: - much as I love his analytical perspective, in his focus on the psychodynamics of victim/rescuer/persecutor and other interactions, he seriously underplays the equally important (IMHO) physiological basis of alochol and other M.A.D. addictions. Of course, his book was written before research changed the current paradigm to a more medical model. A treatment center was set up based on his model, which assumed that if the vicious circle of destructive "games" were ended, an alcoholic could drink moderately or "socially" - true perhaps for a very few - but the assumption didn't last much longer than the first six-month or one-year followup. We're talking early 80's here.
Tony P
Posted by Alara2 on April 5, 2004, at 2:20:07
In reply to Re: URGENT: Alcohol Withdrawal. Please help!, posted by Sophie33 on March 31, 2004, at 4:13:58
Hi Sophie,
It's been a couple of days since you posted and I was wondering how you were doing. Unfortunately I drank during almost every night last week, leading up to my birthday on Sunday. However, I'm having a sober night tonight and am trying to gear myself back up for another attempt at giving up wine.
If you want some extra support, please feel free to send me an email at musical_genie2000@yahoo.com.au
I would be happy to email you directly and can also recommend a fantastic yahoo group which helps people like us. It's only a small group, so the support that we offer one another is quite intensive.I hope that you're feeling a little better by now and that the physical withdrawal symptoms have passed. Let us know how you are getting along!
Alara
Posted by Dr. Bob on April 5, 2004, at 19:19:42
In reply to Re: Tony - name of book? » puravida, posted by Tony P on April 5, 2004, at 1:15:39
> I believe it was Games Alcoholics Play, by Claude Steiner.
I'd just like to plug the double double quotes feature at this site:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#amazon
The first time anyone refers to a book without using this option, I post this to try to make sure he or she at least knows about it. It's just an option, though, and doesn't *have* to be used. If people *choose* not to use it, I'd be interested why not, but I'd like that redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20020918/msgs/7717.html
Thanks!
Bob
Posted by Sophie33 on April 7, 2004, at 10:34:20
In reply to Re: URGENT: Alcohol Withdrawal. Please help! » Sophie33, posted by Alara2 on April 5, 2004, at 2:20:07
Hi Alara!
Thanks for your message! I'm doing great-it's been about a week and a half since my last drink and each day is easier-but I have to admit the "withdrawal" symptoms were pretty bad on day 4/5-very shaky, paranoid, anxiety etc. But once I got through that first week-it seems ok.
I've been in a few social situations with alcohol-but I've seriously felt NO DESIRE to drink. You see, I've realized that I become a totally different person when I drink sometimes and I don't like that person.
I've also been sleeping so much better-and I actually feel rested in the morning-instead of that groggy-tongue coated hungover feeling....
How are you doing???
Sophie
Posted by Caper on May 5, 2004, at 19:47:16
In reply to Re: double double quotes » Tony P, posted by Dr. Bob on April 5, 2004, at 19:19:42
Hello everyone,
This is my first post here, so I hope I don't break any rules or inadvertently offend...if so, please instruct me on how to do better!
I'm 31 years old and very much addicted to alcohol. I started to drink about 16 months ago and was hooked (mildly) in about 5 months, and severely in about 9 months.
I've been through detox places before, the longest being about 9 days, but it's never seemed to last. My longest sober period since I started drinking was 4 weeks. I feel I cannot go back again to detox because my family would (finally) turn their backs on me if they find out I'm drinking again. (And they NEVER know, no one does unless I tell.)
So far I have no criminal charges or anything, but I know it's only a matter of time until I do if I don't get over this. Maybe I should mention that my alcoholism is complicated by depression and PTSD- both of which preceeded the drinking.
Anyway, my point (sorry for the tangents!)is how does one go about detoxing herself from alcohol? I managed to sort of con my way into some 5mg valium tabs (80) and I want to use them to detox without anyone being aware I've been drinking again. (Yes, I know it's horrid to lie to docs, but Valium gives me no pleasure, it really was just for my detox plan!)
Is this a stupid idea? Is it possible? If so, what dosages should I take, and how often should I take them, and how should I taper it off?
Any and all advice would be SO much appreciated.
Thanks in advance. Best to all.
Caper
Posted by Fred23 on May 5, 2004, at 21:58:17
In reply to want to use valium for alcohol detox on my own, posted by Caper on May 5, 2004, at 19:47:16
Some genetic issues about GABA processing in alcoholics brains can be seen at:
http://www.nattc.org/asme/details.asp?ID=0402d
http://mednews.wustl.edu/medadmin/PAnews.nsf/0/C3F47FE4B380C92986256E19006CE5F1
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2004-01/ace-rfa010704.php
Posted by Caper on May 5, 2004, at 23:05:12
In reply to Re: want to use valium for alcohol detox on my own, posted by Fred23 on May 5, 2004, at 21:58:17
Thank you for the info, I'll check out the links. I actually have an undergrad degree in psychology with a concentration in bio-psych, so your post is much appreciated.
> Some genetic issues about GABA processing in alcoholics brains can be seen at:
>
> http://www.nattc.org/asme/details.asp?ID=0402d
>
> http://mednews.wustl.edu/medadmin/PAnews.nsf/0/C3F47FE4B380C92986256E19006CE5F1
>
> http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2004-01/ace-rfa010704.php
>
Posted by Sophie33 on May 6, 2004, at 4:21:49
In reply to Re: want to use valium for alcohol detox on my own, posted by Caper on May 5, 2004, at 23:05:12
Hi, Caper:
I did the same as you-the valium to get through the home detox. And like you-I did it on my own-even my own husband wasn't aware that I had been secretly drinking (a bottle of wine a night!)
I'm also 31-female-and had absolutely enough of the secret drinking. I was becoming hostile, aggressive etc. Finally decided that enough was enough and went to see my GP and told him that I wanted valium so I could detox myself. He was VERY supportive-and gave me the meds no problem. Although I did have a check up first.
The dosage: Well, this depends on how severe your withdrawl symptoms are-I had a bottle of wine a night habit and I took a 5mg three times a day. Morning-afternoon and night. This worked well for me. I also didn't need the valium until day 3 of being alcohol free-I think that's when the syptoms got the worst of me-very edgey, anxious etc. Only needed the valium for 2 weeks.
Hope this helps-please let me know how you're doing.
Sophie
Posted by Puravida on May 6, 2004, at 12:37:36
In reply to want to use valium for alcohol detox on my own, posted by Caper on May 5, 2004, at 19:47:16
Caper,
I have used meds successfully to help with the physical anxiety caused by drinking withdrawal. I would suggest that you try taking the Valium, or whatever (I was taking Serax - milder and not as addictive), just when you feel you need it, or think you might need it. Its easy to say you have been drinking becasue of the depression and PSTD and leave it at that, but it is important that you figure out what specific events and feelings trigger you to drink - then you can begin to learn healthier ways to deal with those things w/o drugs or alcohol. If you take the Valium consistently you risk covering up those things, and possibly becoming addicted to Valium, as well. It is uncomfortable, to be sure, but it can be done -
On the very bright side, they say that the younger you are, the less time it has been a problem for you before you do something about it, the better your chances are of kicking the habit. Good luck!
PV
> Hello everyone,
>
> This is my first post here, so I hope I don't break any rules or inadvertently offend...if so, please instruct me on how to do better!
>
> I'm 31 years old and very much addicted to alcohol. I started to drink about 16 months ago and was hooked (mildly) in about 5 months, and severely in about 9 months.
>
> I've been through detox places before, the longest being about 9 days, but it's never seemed to last. My longest sober period since I started drinking was 4 weeks. I feel I cannot go back again to detox because my family would (finally) turn their backs on me if they find out I'm drinking again. (And they NEVER know, no one does unless I tell.)
>
> So far I have no criminal charges or anything, but I know it's only a matter of time until I do if I don't get over this. Maybe I should mention that my alcoholism is complicated by depression and PTSD- both of which preceeded the drinking.
>
> Anyway, my point (sorry for the tangents!)is how does one go about detoxing herself from alcohol? I managed to sort of con my way into some 5mg valium tabs (80) and I want to use them to detox without anyone being aware I've been drinking again. (Yes, I know it's horrid to lie to docs, but Valium gives me no pleasure, it really was just for my detox plan!)
>
> Is this a stupid idea? Is it possible? If so, what dosages should I take, and how often should I take them, and how should I taper it off?
>
> Any and all advice would be SO much appreciated.
>
> Thanks in advance. Best to all.
>
> Caper
>
>
Posted by Caper on May 6, 2004, at 18:42:48
In reply to Re: want to use valium for alcohol detox on my own, posted by Sophie33 on May 6, 2004, at 4:21:49
Hi Sophie
Thank you so much for taking the time to respond. I'm glad to hear your "home detox" was a success, but I'm afraid my little "habit" is maybe a bit more severe and that scares me. At my worst I was consuming about 4 to 6 bottles of wine a day, then I had the bright idea (sarcasm intended) of switching to vodka (at least a liter a day-- more bang for the buck and easier to conceal from my family and didn't make me gain weight.) Now I'm back on wine (because vodka was tearing up my throat and stomach-- once i went two weeks with nothing but vodka- had to drink in the bathroom because I threw up about half of it each time, but i still NEEDED it-- it's so sick! I truly think alcohol is the devil's invention!) Wine now is about 4 bottles a day- I literally cannot go without it for more than a few hours and have not had a normal night's sleep in ages!
Anyway, I think I shall take your advice (but maybe with slightly increased valium dosages!)
From previous detoxes (sadly, yes, i've had them) I agree with you about the mental symptoms being worst 3 or 4 days into it. Paranoia, hostility etc.
Thanks so much for responding: it means a lot to know I'm not the only one! Hope you're doing well, and if you ever need to talk, I'm here and also at Caper@playful.com
take care.
Caper
> Hi, Caper:
>
> I did the same as you-the valium to get through the home detox. And like you-I did it on my own-even my own husband wasn't aware that I had been secretly drinking (a bottle of wine a night!)
>
> I'm also 31-female-and had absolutely enough of the secret drinking. I was becoming hostile, aggressive etc. Finally decided that enough was enough and went to see my GP and told him that I wanted valium so I could detox myself. He was VERY supportive-and gave me the meds no problem. Although I did have a check up first.
>
> The dosage: Well, this depends on how severe your withdrawl symptoms are-I had a bottle of wine a night habit and I took a 5mg three times a day. Morning-afternoon and night. This worked well for me. I also didn't need the valium until day 3 of being alcohol free-I think that's when the syptoms got the worst of me-very edgey, anxious etc. Only needed the valium for 2 weeks.
>
> Hope this helps-please let me know how you're doing.
>
> Sophie
Posted by Sophie33 on May 7, 2004, at 2:26:53
In reply to Re: want to use valium for alcohol detox on my own, posted by Caper on May 6, 2004, at 18:42:48
Hi, Caper:
Yes, you will definitely need to "up" the dosage-I was lucky because I never drank in the daytime-it was a purely late afternoon and early night habit. But I can assure you that the wine came later in the evening, but before that I'd have 3/4/5/ beers to relax.
And no one noticed! I mean, it could feel my personality change-but no one caught on! You also mentioned that you hid your habit from your family-how did you do that? It seems that you were drinking all the time-
Please write back or send me an email to lolitauk@hotmail.com
GOOD LUCK
SOPHIE
Posted by Caper on May 7, 2004, at 9:25:09
In reply to Re: want to use valium for alcohol detox on my own, posted by Sophie33 on May 7, 2004, at 2:26:53
Sophie I e-mailed you. Thanks so much for the support and if you need some too I'll do my best! Bye for now.
Caper
Posted by Alara2 on May 8, 2004, at 1:25:50
In reply to Re: want to use valium for alcohol detox on my own, posted by Sophie33 on May 6, 2004, at 4:21:49
> Hi, Caper:
>
> I did the same as you-the valium to get through the home detox. And like you-I did it on my own-even my own husband wasn't aware that I had been secretly drinking (a bottle of wine a night!)
>
> I'm also 31-female-and had absolutely enough of the secret drinking. I was becoming hostile, aggressive etc. Finally decided that enough was enough and went to see my GP and told him that I wanted valium so I could detox myself. He was VERY supportive-and gave me the meds no problem. Although I did have a check up first.
>
> The dosage: Well, this depends on how severe your withdrawl symptoms are-I had a bottle of wine a night habit and I took a 5mg three times a day. Morning-afternoon and night. This worked well for me. I also didn't need the valium until day 3 of being alcohol free-I think that's when the syptoms got the worst of me-very edgey, anxious etc. Only needed the valium for 2 weeks.
>
> Hope this helps-please let me know how you're doing.
>
> Sophie
Hi Sophie,I have been wondering about how you got on since your last post. It sounds as though you've done wonderfully! Great stuff. :)
Sophie, did you develop any tolerance and/or dependence towards Valium over the two-week period. I'm ashamed to say that I've stayed a bit lost in my drinking after writing my original post and really think that a short-term benzo script may be the answer. (Can't leave my gorgeous cat in order to detox as an in-patient!)
I'm just a little weary about getting hooked on benzos during a two-week period as I have had minor issues with Xanax and Valium in the past.
Glad you are doing so well. Maybe some of your motivation and resolve will rub off on me. :)
Thanks for the update!
Alara
Posted by Fred23 on May 8, 2004, at 22:54:50
In reply to Re: want to use valium for alcohol detox on my own » Sophie33, posted by Alara2 on May 8, 2004, at 1:25:50
> really think that a short-term benzo script may be the answer.
> I'm just a little weary about getting hooked on benzos during a two-week period as I have had minor issues with Xanax and Valium in the past.
What about the view expressed by "Elizabeth" in http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20010605/msgs/65815.html:
"Alcohol is a lame and toxic substitute for benzos -- if you have adequate doses of benzos, you don't *need* to drink."
The idea I've suggested here in different threads if that one has the alcoholic by genetic over-excited brain due to GABA mis-regulation, then wouldn't an ongoing benzo prescription be just the thing to offset the activity back to "normal"?
Posted by Sophie33 on May 9, 2004, at 6:13:55
In reply to Re: want to use valium for alcohol detox on my own » Sophie33, posted by Alara2 on May 8, 2004, at 1:25:50
Hi, Alara!
So great to hear from you! Regarding the valium. Well, I am sad to say that I started drinking after 2 weeks of non-and what a mistake! I thought that I was doing so welk-one glass of wine wouldn't hurt... I should have known better-I've been down that road before. Anyway, after lots of self-loathing about how pathetic I was to start up again, I went to my GP and told him that I wanted something to help reduce the stress and anxiety that alcohol withdrawl so often provides us.
He was really supportive and prescribed the lowest dosage of the valium-2mg. and suggested I take them 3 times a day. (morn, noon and night) And it REALLY helped calm those symptoms of anxiety down! Day 4/5 seemed to be the hardest for me and this is where the valium helped the most.
So, it's been a coupla' weeks for me and I'm back to feeling good about myself again-and I'm going to try to make it work this time.
I was happy to see your post-I was wondering as to how you were doing. HOW ARE YOU DOING BY THE WAY? Please let me know.
All the best
Sophie
Posted by Caper on May 14, 2004, at 7:06:13
In reply to Re: want to use valium for alcohol detox on my own » Sophie33, posted by Alara2 on May 8, 2004, at 1:25:50
Hi Alara,
I just wanted to say that in-patient detoxes can be fairly short, as little as three days, although I think about 5 or 6 days is better because the detox symptoms can come back _hard_ and suddenly at about day 3 or 4.
I think if you've never tried in-patient detox before, it might be really helpful. Your cat will forgive you for your being gone as long as it's fed, trust me, mine did and I've had her 15 years and she is VERY spoiled!
Anyway, my main points are: #1 if you need in-patient detox, give it a try. It can be worked out somehow, don't you think?. The group atmospheres are very supportive too, which is helpful; #2 you may be more likely to develop a problem with valium, xanax, ativan etc. if you detox on your own. In the in-patient detoxes I went to there was a "withdrawal protocol"- which basically means they take your vital signs and ask you about nausea, agitation, etc. and you get a score based on all of your answers. If you score "high" enough, you get 2mgs of Ativan. After the first 24 hours, if you score "high" again it's cut down to only 1mg of Ativan. So they use those type drugs yes, but they taper the dosage fairly gently over 3 or 4 days. By the time you leave you will probably not have had any valium-type drugs for at least a day. The doctors and nurses know that if they discharge you with you still wanting Valium and you have none, alcohol will be your back-up so they are pretty insistent about patients being done with the worst of detox symptoms before they recommend discharge.
Just wanted to share my experience for you or anyone else considering in-patient detox. I ended up doing it again since my last post and today is one week sober and no cravings (so far anyway!) I'm just not strong enough for the self-detox thing I guess.
Good luck to you.
Caper
> > Hi, Caper:
> >
> > I did the same as you-the valium to get through the home detox. And like you-I did it on my own-even my own husband wasn't aware that I had been secretly drinking (a bottle of wine a night!)
> >
> > I'm also 31-female-and had absolutely enough of the secret drinking. I was becoming hostile, aggressive etc. Finally decided that enough was enough and went to see my GP and told him that I wanted valium so I could detox myself. He was VERY supportive-and gave me the meds no problem. Although I did have a check up first.
> >
> > The dosage: Well, this depends on how severe your withdrawl symptoms are-I had a bottle of wine a night habit and I took a 5mg three times a day. Morning-afternoon and night. This worked well for me. I also didn't need the valium until day 3 of being alcohol free-I think that's when the syptoms got the worst of me-very edgey, anxious etc. Only needed the valium for 2 weeks.
> >
> > Hope this helps-please let me know how you're doing.
> >
> > Sophie
>
>
> Hi Sophie,
>
> I have been wondering about how you got on since your last post. It sounds as though you've done wonderfully! Great stuff. :)
>
> Sophie, did you develop any tolerance and/or dependence towards Valium over the two-week period. I'm ashamed to say that I've stayed a bit lost in my drinking after writing my original post and really think that a short-term benzo script may be the answer. (Can't leave my gorgeous cat in order to detox as an in-patient!)
>
> I'm just a little weary about getting hooked on benzos during a two-week period as I have had minor issues with Xanax and Valium in the past.
>
> Glad you are doing so well. Maybe some of your motivation and resolve will rub off on me. :)
>
> Thanks for the update!
>
> Alara
>
>
>
>
Posted by sophie33 on May 28, 2004, at 7:25:14
In reply to Re: want to use valium for alcohol detox on my own, posted by Caper on May 14, 2004, at 7:06:13
Hello everyone!
Just wanted to check in and let y'all know that I've been sober for over 3 weeks now and am gradually lesening my dosage of valium each day. i started at 2mg every 2 hours or so and now i'm finding I only need about 6mg for the day-and occasioanlly 2mg for night before bed. I'm feeling so much better and I'm proof that you can do it! It certainly wasn't easy-but since i've been thorugh this before I knoew I couldn't do it alone and the valium worked WonDERS for me. No withdrawl symptoms at all.
Would love feedback from all of you-how are you all doing?
All the best,
Soph
Posted by zoomdeal on May 30, 2004, at 4:31:05
In reply to Re: want to use valium for alcohol detox on my own, posted by sophie33 on May 28, 2004, at 7:25:14
Hello:
I am currently in the middle of an at home de-tox on valium. I have done it several times in the past. The last time I went 14 months without a drink, the longest period in 20 years. In March, I took a drink and althouth tings did not get as horrible as the folks at AA would have made me believe, I was becoming a prisoner to the bottle again and my family, husband and son, did not like me very much. Just in case anyone asks about it again, you take about 40MG the first day, then 30MG, then 20MG, then 10MG, then 5MG and then none. At the end of 5 days, you are done with the valium. This gets you thru the physical withdrawal. The mental part can last a very long time. As to other physical, I had pain in my arms and legs and headaches for months. But I was a heavy drinker for many years. I have never found a scientic explanation for the the pain that follows but have heard may others at AA describe them as well.. If anyone has seen informatin about this I would love to read it.
For me the AA helped this last time because it gave me a place to go and unwind after work..
I had a hard time with the steps and eventually, I think it drove me crazy and back to drinking..
I got stuck on taking my inventory. In other words, I was constantly thinking how I could have done things better. Over analzing my every action. There were some great people there that truly cared about me.
I think that this time I am going to try going to some other none drinking activities after work instead like jazzercise and Tia Chi.
I am on my second day of the de-tox.
I am 47, a corp exec and mom of a 9 year old boy.
Love to hear from you. Wish me luck. Hopefully, this is the last time. I did not want to go to the doctor and ask again so I did order the valiums online. Expensive but saved the embarrassment of explaining again...
Have a good day.
Posted by Alara2 on June 1, 2004, at 3:27:06
In reply to Re: want to use valium for alcohol detox on my own, posted by sophie33 on May 28, 2004, at 7:25:14
> Hello everyone!
>
> Just wanted to check in and let y'all know that I've been sober for over 3 weeks now and am gradually lesening my dosage of valium each day. i started at 2mg every 2 hours or so and now i'm finding I only need about 6mg for the day-and occasioanlly 2mg for night before bed. I'm feeling so much better and I'm proof that you can do it! It certainly wasn't easy-but since i've been thorugh this before I knoew I couldn't do it alone and the valium worked WonDERS for me. No withdrawl symptoms at all.
>
> Would love feedback from all of you-how are you all doing?
> All the best,
> Soph
Sophie,3 weeks is fantastic! You say that the Valium has spared you of physical withdrawal symptoms. Does that mean that you have stopped craving the taste too? I'd also love to know how long it took for the psychological cravings/obsession to go away. (If not, how much less frequent have they become during the last couple of weeks?)
I have been doing well `for me' in that I've cut down my drinking dramatically during the last few weeks and am now back to one long-neck bottle of beer (2.7 std drinks) a night and have been averaging about one alcohol-free night a week. I've only been drunk about three times in the last fortnight, which is still far too much, but this is such an improvement that I'm fairly happy with myself.I'm going to have another alcohol free night again tomorrow and am gearing myself up for the event.(Have stocked up with herb teas and essential oils to burn in my candle holder. lol)
I'm still finding it hard to `let go' of alcohol because it's been my crutch for so many years, but the prospect of becoming a non-drinker seems so much less depressing now that I'm already feeling the benefits of having cut down.I'm so glad to hear that you're doing well, Sophie. Please keep us updated. It seems that there are a lot of us here who could use a little inspiration. :)
Thanks again for your update and congratulations!
Alara
Posted by Alara2 on June 1, 2004, at 4:21:02
In reply to Re: want to use valium for alcohol detox on my own, posted by zoomdeal on May 30, 2004, at 4:31:05
> Hello:
>
> I am currently in the middle of an at home de-tox on valium. I have done it several times in the past. The last time I went 14 months without a drink, the longest period in 20 years. In March, I took a drink and althouth tings did not get as horrible as the folks at AA would have made me believe, I was becoming a prisoner to the bottle again and my family, husband and son, did not like me very much. Just in case anyone asks about it again, you take about 40MG the first day, then 30MG, then 20MG, then 10MG, then 5MG and then none. At the end of 5 days, you are done with the valium. This gets you thru the physical withdrawal. The mental part can last a very long time. As to other physical, I had pain in my arms and legs and headaches for months. But I was a heavy drinker for many years. I have never found a scientic explanation for the the pain that follows but have heard may others at AA describe them as well.. If anyone has seen informatin about this I would love to read it.
>
> For me the AA helped this last time because it gave me a place to go and unwind after work..
>
> I had a hard time with the steps and eventually, I think it drove me crazy and back to drinking..
>
> I got stuck on taking my inventory. In other words, I was constantly thinking how I could have done things better. Over analzing my every action. There were some great people there that truly cared about me.
>
> I think that this time I am going to try going to some other none drinking activities after work instead like jazzercise and Tia Chi.
>
> I am on my second day of the de-tox.
>
> I am 47, a corp exec and mom of a 9 year old boy.
>
> Love to hear from you. Wish me luck. Hopefully, this is the last time. I did not want to go to the doctor and ask again so I did order the valiums online. Expensive but saved the embarrassment of explaining again...
>
> Have a good day.
>Hi Zoomdeal,
By now you must be on day 3 or 4 of your detox schedule. How are you feeling? What you are doing takes a lot of courage and you sound as though you were in a really positive frame of mind on day 2. Having said that, I know about the psychological ups and downs of trying to get off that awful liquid..Just want you to know that I'm thinking of you and am sure that everyone who reads this is behind you one hundred percent!
It sounds as though you're really working out a long-term plan too. Jazzercise and Thai Chi are great ideas. The planning is something that I've always had a problem with...Have always tended to think: "AA doesn't work", expecting some substitute miracle solution to fall into my lap. As I mentioned to Sophie in my previous post, I am now in the process of cutting down with the intention of abstaining completely, so I guess this is the time to plan!
Hang in there, Zoomdeal, and keep us up to date.
All the best,
Alara
Posted by zoomdeal on June 2, 2004, at 4:35:24
In reply to Re: want to use valium for alcohol detox on my own » zoomdeal, posted by Alara2 on June 1, 2004, at 4:21:02
Hi Everyone:
I used the three day weekend for the detox -- normally it should take 5 days. Yesterday was a bit tough to go to work. I had to take one of those diet pills with some energy stuff in it--- I was still very tired/sleepy from the valium but I made it. I went to the Thai Chi after work. I think I will keep going-- it teaches relaxation. My first attempt to quit was when I went in rehab in 1993. Family pressure. But I did not really want to quit, I just want the pain to stop. I stayed quit 100 days. Those folks that say that no one fails who makes 90 meetings in 90 days just haven't been around AA enough to know.
Over the next 10 years, I quit 6 or 7 more times but never for more than about 100 days. I saw therapists, psychiatrists, took antidepressants, naltraxeone, you name it. But I always really wanted to be able to drink like normal people.
Finally in January 2003, I decided that I wanted to quit. I took off a week for the valium detox and things were very easy from there in terms of the pschological. I had no desire for a drink, except one day in the first 30 days. The body pain is a different story and may be unrelated (but I doubt it).
In March this year for reasons that I may be able to explain, on one fine day the cravings hit me hard. I took that drink of scotch. I started off sort of slow, ie not everyday. Soon it was everyday again. Nothing really bad has happened but I am a black out drinker. Not everyday but when I least expect it. When I black out, I say mean things that I don't remember. So the negative consequences are there. A couple of weeks ago I tried to quit with out the valium. I made it through Sat and Sun and went to work on Monday. By the end of the day on Monday, it was like I was having a panic attack. I went right for the scotch and had a bad black out day on very little scotch.
The valium detox or any other benzo is the way to go if you are a heavy drinker. Cold turkey is dangerous-- there is no medically known way to stop DT's if they start.
This is the morning of day 4 and I feel good, no shakes or craving. I am ready to do this.
I am talking my self out of the jazzercise, but am going to check into belly dancing today.
Once you get a little sober time, I do think that reading the Big Book can be good. AA can be good also when you are in those early days. And for alot of people it is good for a long time. Who knows I may wind up back there.
Also for those of you with trouble sleeping, Trazadone is the best and the doctor will let you use it for a long time.
Thanks for your support and your free to tell me how crazy I am sound.
Regards,
Ann
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