![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 24 of 24. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Twainesworld on January 26, 2004, at 0:26:54
Does anyone know if there is a drug interaction between Methadone and Ephedrine HCL? I have been on Methadone for pain for 6 years and it has GREATLY increased my cravings for sweets and thus made me FAT!! I want to use Ephedrine HCL (not Ephedra, which is being banned) to try to lose some weight (and my appetite), but I haven't been able to find any info on interactions between Methadone and Ephedrine HCL!
Thanks, in advance, for any info/insight.... :o)
Posted by Fallen4myT on January 27, 2004, at 23:45:05
In reply to Drug Interaction??, posted by Twainesworld on January 26, 2004, at 0:26:54
I saw this and I googled it looking for an interaction I didn't see one but I got a zillion hits so maybe it is there. My fear is what you wanna take IS a stimulant and maybe that in and of itself would decrease the pain meds and also these meds can be risky and cause high blood pressure and bad health results. Maybe an exercise program followed 5 days a week ..maybe see a PT if youre in pain you must have somethings that may need special care when you DO exercise..some exercise can be done in a chair and follow a VERY low carb diet only GOOD carbs with a lot of fiber would be good. I looked up the drug you wanna take to lose weight on Google and this is what i found please be careful
>>Ephedrine HCL
Ephedrine was discovered in 1887 by the Oriental biochemist Nagi. Given the fact that your body's hormones and protein utilization is high, many athletes find it important to insure themselves peak workouts. Ephedrine s one of the few proven metabolic optimizes that help that occur. It first received attention in America in 1924 when medical scientists Carl Schmidt and K.K. Chen found it to have very powerful stimulating effects on patients. With respect to it's origin, the best source of L-Ephedrine is the Ephedra Equisetina (better known as Ma Huang) plant that grows in China and India. The less effective forms of ephedrine generally comes from less expensive plant sources such as Ephedra Nevadensis which grows in the western states.Ephedrine is the strongest safe stimulant known today. It will allow athletes to train longer and harder, thereby assisting them in making greater gains.>>
Posted by Twainesworld on January 28, 2004, at 9:01:25
In reply to Re: Drug Interaction?? » Twainesworld, posted by Fallen4myT on January 27, 2004, at 23:45:05
Hi again Fallen, ;o)
Thanks so much for checking into this for me - I really appreciate it!!! I too was worried about the fact that Ephedrine, being a stimulant, would somehow counteract my pain meds! I did a search on Dr. Koop's site for drug interactions, but all that came up was something about how I shouldn't drink grapefruit juice (?) - which was weird because since I had never heard that before, I had never shied away from grapefruit juice, and have never noticed any problem with it!!! Of course NOW that I've read that, I will probably notice all KINDS of wierd things happen if I drink it (there's that old 'fear' thing again)!! ;o) LOL! Anyway, Thank YOU for caring!!! It means a lot...
Have a GREAT day..... :o)
Posted by Fallen4myT on January 28, 2004, at 10:27:28
In reply to Re: Drug Interaction??, posted by Twainesworld on January 28, 2004, at 9:01:25
LOL It's not funny but it is funny PLEASE do not take the med...well at least do not take grapefruit juice with it...:) I do know with a lotta meds I think MAOS are one you cannot drink it cause it will make tooooooo much med build up in your body and you don't need the CV issues with that.....Ummm :) I still like my idea of low carb and um ANY form of exercise better than that med..I shall keep looking ..I use to have a herb and suppliement site must be at a different AOL addy so I will look. In the meantime nooooo Ephedrine..just wait till we find a direct link..and or a nurse posts to you..HUGS AND GOD BLESS
Posted by krazybirdlady on January 28, 2004, at 14:47:02
In reply to Drug Interaction??, posted by Twainesworld on January 26, 2004, at 0:26:54
as far as i can see there is no known interaction between methadone and ephedrine. however, i wouldn't mess with ephedrine, as it has not been established as safe. ephedra (it's cousin), has been banned in the US and Canada because of several deaths due to its use. please check out alternate means to lose weight. there is no magic pill for this, tried and true methods are the best way to go...
Posted by Twainesworld on January 28, 2004, at 19:51:24
In reply to Re: Drug Interaction?? » Twainesworld, posted by krazybirdlady on January 28, 2004, at 14:47:02
Hi KBL,
Thanks much for the info - I appreciate it!! I hear what you're saying about Ephedrine, and I know it hasn't received very good press lately (Ephedra, anyway) -- but I remember taking it when I was in my early 20's to lose weight (I had a jerk of a boyfriend who wanted me to be 'just so'...), and it really worked for me -- so, you know how you like to go back to the ol'"tried & true"!! ;o) I will take heed to what you & Fallen are saying, though, and will find something else!!!
Thanks for caring............ :o)
Posted by Twainesworld on January 28, 2004, at 19:59:55
In reply to Re: Drug Interaction?? » Twainesworld, posted by Fallen4myT on January 28, 2004, at 10:27:28
Thanks again, Fallen, for your caring & kindness (and good ideas)!!
I promise to stay away from the Ephedrine (mom)! ;o) LOL
I know that diet & exercise are the best....but, UGHHHH, DIET AND EXERCISE??? :o( Just doesn't sound good to me!!!! I'm still waiting for that 'magic pill' that I can take while I'm watching t.v. and eating ice cream!!!! :oD
Seriously, though, I know there are other (safer) things out there & I will keep looking!!!
Thanks again, as always, my friend!!!
God Bless you too............ :o) XXXX
Posted by Fallen4myT on January 28, 2004, at 20:31:43
In reply to Re: Drug Interaction?? » Fallen4myT, posted by Twainesworld on January 28, 2004, at 19:59:55
Whew good cause here us what I found today I hope it copies and pastes ....youve been a great friend to me too and I dont want anything to happen to you...also I will post a site for all of you to check on suppliments and so on. Ummm, no such pill the anti ice cream carb pills doesnt exist lol SO DIG WHAT YA ALMOST TOOK
>>- Supplements
Ephedrine
Supplement Ephedrine
Description Ma Huang is a Chinese herb that is also referred to as Chinese Ephedra and herbal ephedrine. The active compounds, ephedra or ephedrine alkaloids are also found in other herbals such as Mormon Tea and Sida Cordifolia (there are about 40 species of plants that contain versions of ephedra). Ma Huang, and its various herbal cousins, functions as a sympathomimetic, meaning that it mimics some of the effects of the body’s own sympathetic (stimulant) hormones such as epinephrine (adrenaline) and norepinephrine (either by increasing the levels of these hormones or by reducing their breakdown). Ephedrine is a “non-selective” sympathomimetic, which means that it acts as a general stimulant on many parts of the body simultaneously (lungs, heart, blood vessels, adrenal glands, etc.). It is most often used as a central nervous system stimulant (for alertness or energy), as a decongestant (for asthma/breathing aid) and as an appetite suppressant in a wide variety of weight loss and “thermogenic” type products.
Claims
Increased alertness
Speeds up metabolism
Aids weight loss
Enhanced athletic performance
Mental sharpness
Theory Because ephedrine acts as a general sympathetic nervous system stimulant, it can give users a “boost” or “pick up” similar to what you might feel after a cup or two of strong coffee. By mimicking the effects of epinephrine, ephedra can increase the output of blood from the heart, enhance muscle contractility, raise blood sugar levels and open bronchial pathways for easier breathing. In many cases, ephedra can result in a temporary suppression of appetite, which may help efforts aimed at dietary restriction and weight loss.
Scientific Support The research findings concerning the effects of Ma Huang and other ephedra-containing products is equivocal – some studies show absolutely no beneficial effect, while a handful of others show a modest increase in metabolic rate, suppression of appetite and enhanced weight loss when compared to a placebo. A possible reason for the inconsistent findings is the variable levels of the active alkaloids responsible for the stimulatory effects associated with Ma Huang and other ephedra-containing products. As with many naturally derived compounds, levels of the active chemicals can vary significantly from product to product and from batch to batch – a MAJOR problem when considered in light of the potential adverse side effects associated with ephedra-containing products (see below)Because ephedrine is a stimulant, it is logical that either a single dose or chronic repeated use would elevate metabolic rate somewhat (meaning that you would burn more calories at rest and during exercise). One study showed that overweight men and women who were dieting were better able to maintain their resting metabolic rate (which typically falls during a weight loss program) when they consumed 150mg of ephedrine per day (although no additional weight loss was noted). The combination of ephedrine (20-40mg) and caffeine (200-400mg), sometimes combined with theophylline from tea (50mg) or salicylates from white willow (100mg), has been found to work better then either agent alone in producing a slight increase in resting metabolism and appears to be about as effective as prescription weight loss medications such as dexfenfluramine. In another study, ephedrine (30mg) combined with caffeine (100mg) and aspirin (300mg) increased energy expenditure following a meal in obese women. This combination, known to many consumers as the “ECA stack” (for Ephedrine/Caffeine/Aspirin), has become one of the most popular weight loss supplements on the market.
Safety Ephedrine can be converted into the street drug methamphetamine (“meth” or “speed”). The active ingredient in Ma Huang is ephedrine, sale of which has been restricted in 16 states. Ephedrine is considered a banned substance by the International Olympic Committee (IOC) the United States Olympic Committee (USOC), and the National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA). The FDA has received nearly 1000 reports of “adverse events” from consumers using one of over 100 supplements containing ephedrine alkaloids. Complaints have ranged from nervous system and cardiovascular system effects such as elevated blood pressure, heart palpitations, insomnia, irritability, headaches, and serious adverse effects such as seizures, stroke, heart attack, and even death (about 15-20 thus far). Most of these adverse events occurred in otherwise healthy young to middle-aged adults using the products for weight control or increased energy. In response to the relatively large number of adverse reports (compared to other dietary supplements), the FDA proposed to limit the amount of ephedra alkaloids that could be consumed per dose (8mg) and per day (24mg). Quite recently, however, the General Accounting Office (GAO) has determined that the majority of these reports cannot be substantiated or linked directly to any ephedra-containing product, nor did the FDA have adequate scientific evidence that any restrictions on ephedra dosing or daily intake was needed. To put the overall safety question into proper perspective, ephedrine-alkaloids are NOT for everyone – but 1000 adverse reports against the backdrop of several hundred million doses over the last couple of years hardly qualified as the “public health menace” that many media stories have suggestedVirtually all dietary supplements that contain ephedra-alkaloids also carry a strong warning on their labels which reads:
Women who are pregnant or nursing should avoid using ephedra-containing products. Keep out of reach of children. Avoid using ephedrine-containing products if you have high blood pressure, heart or thyroid disease, diabetes, difficulty in urination due to prostate enlargement, or if taking monoamine oxidase (MAO) inhibitors or any other prescription drug. Reduce or discontinue use if nervousness, tremor, irritability, rapid heartbeat, sleeplessness, loss of appetite, or nausea occur.If you have a complaint of your own to lodge, you can report any “adverse effects” at the FDA's MEDWATCH website: http://www.fda.gov/medwatch
Value Ephedra-containing dietary supplements and herbal stimulant/weight loss teas are likely to appeal to individuals seeking an energy boost. Extreme caution should be used, however, in those people with high blood pressure or existing heart disease. Because ephedrine is commonly found in many weight loss and thermogenic products, overweight individuals, who may be at higher risk for hypertension and heart disease, should be especially aware of possible adverse side effects.
Dosage Because ephedrine is similar in structure to amphetamines and can increase heart rate and blood pressure in susceptible individuals, the FDA has recommended that ephedrine consumption should be limited to less than 24 mg per day and that dietary supplements contain no more than 8mg of ephedrine or related alkaloids per serving (recently, the FDA has indicated that they may be backing away from this recommendation, but it still stands in the public record for now). It is very important, should you decide to use ephedra-containing products, to understand that there are a variety of ephedrine-like compounds (alkaloids) present in Ma Huang and related herbs, including ephedrine, norephedrine, pseudoephedrine, methylephedrine, and norpseudoephedrine – and products should be standardized to a TOTAL ALKALOID content. For example, a product that states 356mg of Ma Huang or related herb per serving and is standardized to 6% ephedra alkaloids, would have 21.36mg of ephedra alkaloids per serving (356 X 0.06 = 21.36) – make sure that the “standardization” is to TOTAL alkaloids rather than simply to ephedrineIn the few studies which have been conducted on ephedra-containing products for weight loss, the total amount of ephedrine ingested per day has ranged between 60-75mg (usually in 3 divided doses of 20-25mg/dose).
The above dosage recommendations should be considered in light of a recent study from the University of Arkansas which analyzed the content of ephedra alkaloids in 20 dietary supplements. The study showed that the alkaloid content varied considerably among products – from ZERO to 18.5mg per dose and significant lot-to-lot variations in alkaloid content were observed for at least 4 products (meaning that even if you selected the same brand each time, you would be getting a different level of ephedra). For 1 product, the alkaloid content varied by as much as 1000% between lots. Perhaps the most disturbing finding of the study was that fully half of the products showed discrepancies of more than 20% between the label claim for ephedra alkaloids and the actual alkaloids measured in the study.
References 1. Astrup, A., et al., The effect and safety of an ephedrine/caffeine compound compared to ephedrine, caffeine and placebo in obese subjects on an energy restricted diet. A double blind trial. Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord, 19992. 16(4): p. 269-77. 2. Astrup, A., L. Breum, and S. Toubro, Pharmacological and clinical studies of ephedrine and other thermogenic agonists. Obes Res, 1995. 3 Suppl 4: p. 537S-540S. 3. Breum, L., et al., Comparison of an ephedrine/caffeine combination and dexfenfluramine in the treatment of obesity. A double-blind multi-centre trial in general practice. Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord, 199994. 18(2): p. 99-103. 4. Bruno, A., K.B. Nolte, and J. Chapin, Stroke associated with ephedrine use. Neurology, 1993. 43(7): p. 1313-6. 5. Capwell, R.R., Ephedrine-induced mania from an herbal diet supplement [letter]. Am J Psychiatry, 1995. 152(4): p. 647. 6. Daly, P.A., et al., Ephedrine, caffeine and aspirin: safety and efficacy for treatment of human obesity. Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord, 1993. 17 Suppl 1: p. S73-8. 7. Flurer CL, Lin LA, Satzger RD, Wolnik KA. Determination of ephedrine compounds in nutritional supplements by cyclodextrin-modified capillary electrophoresis. J Chromatogr B Biomed Appl. 1995 Jul 7;669(1):133-9. 8. Gurley BJ, Gardner SF, Hubbard MA. Content versus label claims in ephedra-containing dietary supplements. Am J Health Syst Pharm 2000 May 15;57(10):963-3-9. 9. Gurley BJ, Gardner SF, White LM, Wang PL. Ephedrine pharmacokinetics after the ingestion of nutritional supplements containing Ephedra sinica (ma huang). Ther Drug Monit. 1998 Aug;20(4):439-45. 10. Gurley BJ, Wang P, Gardner SF. Ephedrine-type alkaloid content of nutritional supplements containing Ephedra sinica (Ma-huang) as determined by high performance liquid chromatography. J Pharm Sci 1998 Dec;87(12):1547-53. 11. Gurley BJ, Wang P, Gardner SF. Ephedrine-type alkaloid content of nutritional supplements containing Ephedra sinica (Ma-huang) as determined by high performance liquid chromatography. J Pharm Sci. 1998 Dec;87(12):1547-53. 12. Josefson, D., Herbal stimulant causes US deaths [news]. Bmj, 1996. 312(7043): p. 1378-9. 13. Ros JJ, Pelders MG, De Smet PA. A case of positive doping associated with a botanical food supplement. Pharm World Sci. 1999 Feb;21(1):44-6. 14. Roxanas, M.G. and J. Spalding, Ephedrine abuse psychosis. Med J Aust, 1977. 2(19): p. 639-40. 15. Toubro, S., et al., Safety and efficacy of long-term treatment with ephedrine, caffeine and an ephedrine/caffeine mixture. Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord, 1993. 17 Suppl 1: p. S69-72. 16. Toubro, S., et al., The acute and chronic effects of ephedrine/caffeine mixtures on energy expenditure and glucose metabolism in humans. Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord, 1993. 17 Suppl 3: p. S73-7; discussion S82. 17. Van Mieghem, W., E. Stevens, and J. Cosemans, Ephedrine-induced cardiopathy. Br Med J, 1978. 1(6116): p. 816. 18. White LM, Gardner SF, Gurley BJ, Marx MA, Wang PL, Estes M. Pharmacokinetics and cardiovascular effects of ma-huang (Ephedra sinica) in normotensive adults. J Clin Pharmacol. 1997 Feb;37(2):116-22. 19. White LM, Gardner SF, Gurley BJ, Marx MA, Wang PL, Estes M. Pharmacokinetics and cardiovascular effects of ma-huang (Ephedra sinica) in normotensive adults. J Clin Pharmacol. 1997 Feb;37(2):116-22.
Related Supplements
>>
Posted by Fallen4myT on January 28, 2004, at 20:49:06
In reply to Re: Drug Interaction?? LONG, posted by Fallen4myT on January 28, 2004, at 20:31:43
Oh and here is the link or address it;s cool cause you can look up any suppliment and stuff
http://www.supplementwatch.com/supatoz/supplement.asp?supplementId=126
Posted by Twainesworld on January 29, 2004, at 4:03:13
In reply to Re: Drug Interaction?? LONG, posted by Fallen4myT on January 28, 2004, at 20:49:06
THANK YOU, Fallen, for looking up all that info for me!!!! :o) You just may have saved my life!!!
Thank YOU for being a sweet, new friend!!!! ;o)
XXX
Posted by Lindsay Rae on February 1, 2004, at 12:15:41
In reply to Re: Drug Interaction?? » Twainesworld, posted by Fallen4myT on January 27, 2004, at 23:45:05
This information you got from the net is ancient! It also contributed to the death of the baseball player last year...anyone remember that? Ephedra has since been taken off the shelves as per FDA regulations. It's not safe. A good friend of mine took half the reccommended dose and found out by almost dying that he was allergic to it. He went to the gym and woke up in the hospital. There is more current info on ephedra.
That said, I am not holier than thou. I take pain meds too, and the medication itself made me gain 40 pounds. I went to the doctor and got Phentermine, which is a synthetic amphetamine. Other people on Methadone have had success with it, so I thought I'd try it. But it made me feel so jittery and anxious, I just couldn't take it. A friend of mine is hooked on these pills. Everyone is different, but if you don't want to effect your pain meds, stay away from Xenidrine or any other "fat eliminator", as these deplete your system of your fat AND your medication. Taking a CNS stimulant and depressant at the same time is dangerous, not to mention counterproductive. But there is no contra- indication that the drugs don't mix.
> I saw this and I googled it looking for an interaction I didn't see one but I got a zillion hits so maybe it is there. My fear is what you wanna take IS a stimulant and maybe that in and of itself would decrease the pain meds and also these meds can be risky and cause high blood pressure and bad health results. Maybe an exercise program followed 5 days a week ..maybe see a PT if youre in pain you must have somethings that may need special care when you DO exercise..some exercise can be done in a chair and follow a VERY low carb diet only GOOD carbs with a lot of fiber would be good. I looked up the drug you wanna take to lose weight on Google and this is what i found please be careful
>
> >>Ephedrine HCL
> Ephedrine was discovered in 1887 by the Oriental biochemist Nagi. Given the fact that your body's hormones and protein utilization is high, many athletes find it important to insure themselves peak workouts. Ephedrine s one of the few proven metabolic optimizes that help that occur. It first received attention in America in 1924 when medical scientists Carl Schmidt and K.K. Chen found it to have very powerful stimulating effects on patients. With respect to it's origin, the best source of L-Ephedrine is the Ephedra Equisetina (better known as Ma Huang) plant that grows in China and India. The less effective forms of ephedrine generally comes from less expensive plant sources such as Ephedra Nevadensis which grows in the western states.
>
> Ephedrine is the strongest safe stimulant known today. It will allow athletes to train longer and harder, thereby assisting them in making greater gains.>>
>
Posted by Fallen4myT on February 1, 2004, at 12:24:17
In reply to Re: Drug Interaction??, posted by Lindsay Rae on February 1, 2004, at 12:15:41
Lindsay when you quote me long quote or not please QUOTE ALL I posted AS YOUR POST WAS OUT OF CONTEXT.. WHAT I TOLD HER AND POSTED SUPPORTED YOUR OWN COMMENTS (posted after the fact as I had 2 links up) ON THE DRUG...IT IS DANGEROUS ..THE ARTICLE INCLUDED ALL studies on the drug READ IT ALL...SO WE AGREE AND I WAS AS YOU SAW..LOOK AGAIN..TELLING HER NOT TO TAKE IT
Posted by Fallen4myT on February 1, 2004, at 12:34:59
In reply to Re: Drug Interaction?? LONG, posted by Fallen4myT on January 28, 2004, at 20:49:06
> Oh and here is the link or address it;s cool cause you can look up any suppliment and stuff
>
> http://www.supplementwatch.com/supatoz/supplement.asp?supplementId=126JUST WANTED TO REPOST THIS ITS VERY HELPFUL ON ALL MEDS
Posted by Twainesworld on February 1, 2004, at 13:57:39
In reply to Re: Drug Interaction??, posted by Lindsay Rae on February 1, 2004, at 12:15:41
Hi Lindsay,
I appreciate your thoughts, info & advice - thank you!! Actually, the drug I was asking about is Ephedrine HCL, which (according to the FDA) is not the same thing as Ephedra. Chemically synthesized Ephedrine is regulated as a drug, and has more extensive regulations by the FDA and DEA than Ephedra. It has not been associated with the same kind of adverse events reported to have occurred with dietary supplements containing Ephedra.
Even so, what you & Fallen both said was right -- in that it's hard to say HOW the use of a stimulant like Ephedrine might affect the Methadone (and Lord KNOWS I would much rather have 40 extra pounds on me than not have my Methadone work)!!! ;o)
I really appreciate your info on Xenadrine and the like, as I wouldn't have even THOUGHT about the fat-sucking properties in it also sucking out the Methadone!!!!!
I took Ephedrine 10 years ago when I was in my early 20's, and had no problems with it --- but, again, I wasn't on the Methadone then either!!!
Anyway, thank you SO much -- everyone who posted back -- for all your help & insights into why I should NOT take Ephedrine!!! :o)
Have a great day..........
Posted by Fallen4myT on February 1, 2004, at 18:54:59
In reply to Re: Drug Interaction?? » Lindsay Rae, posted by Twainesworld on February 1, 2004, at 13:57:39
Lol Twain, do you get the feeling we want you to stay away from that med :) We ALL care is all
Posted by Twainesworld on February 1, 2004, at 19:31:17
In reply to Re: Drug Interaction??, posted by Fallen4myT on February 1, 2004, at 18:54:59
Fallen,
I AM starting to get that feeling....
lol
....and I'm SURE glad to have you all lookin' out for me & carin'!! It means a whole LOT!!!!! ;o)
xoxoxox
Posted by Fallen4myT on February 1, 2004, at 20:00:06
In reply to Re: Drug Interaction?? » Fallen4myT, posted by Twainesworld on February 1, 2004, at 19:31:17
Yeah I know it's kewl to be loved eh :-)
> Fallen,
>
> I AM starting to get that feeling....
>
> lol
>
> ....and I'm SURE glad to have you all lookin' out for me & carin'!! It means a whole LOT!!!!! ;o)
>
> xoxoxox
>
>
Posted by Lindsay Rae on February 2, 2004, at 11:31:09
In reply to Re: Drug Interaction??, posted by Fallen4myT on February 1, 2004, at 12:24:17
Sorry about that! I only saw that part and it made me think of the baseball player...I wasn't trying to bash your post, only the website it came from, as it made me angry that these herbs are considered "safe" before they are evaluated by the FDA, and it takes someone dying to move it over to the "unsafe" category. Again, sorry if it sounded like I was blaming that on you...that wasn't my intention at all.
Peace,
Lindsay
Posted by Lindsay Rae on February 2, 2004, at 11:46:58
In reply to Re: Drug Interaction??, posted by Lindsay Rae on February 2, 2004, at 11:31:09
You know what, Twain, I am starting to feel like I want OFF Methadone. Every time I hear someone else say they've gained 40+ pounds, it makes me cringe. I keep telling myself it's the junk food I ate late at night, or all the cereal, but with my lack of eating during the day, the weight just doesn't add up. I could understand gaining fifteen pounds. But the first year I was on Methadone, at 80 mg, I didn't gain an ounce. Then I got pregnant, and by my eighth month, the clinic doctor insisted I go up to 115 because my blood volume doubled or something. I don't know if it was the increase, the amount of time on Methadone, or the change in types of liquid...or a combination of all three, but after I had my baby, I gained an additional 30 pounds! This happened while I was eating a box of special K every night, but nothing during the day. Then I got so depressed about being fat, I started eating ice cream at night to sooth the sugar cravings. Once I did Atkins and was losing 3 pounds a day, but my sweet tooth took over (I never had a sweet tooth before Methadone) and I gained it back plus ten. I went to try on clothes at Ross a couple days ago, and I was there for three hours. I left with two shirts and cried all the way home while my stomach growled. I desperately want to lose some of this weight--I never got fat on Vicodin or Darvon, and Propoxyphene is a derivative of Methadone, so why now? I'm no longer at a clinic; I see a pain mgmt doctor now, and I get the diskettes, so it's tough to taper that way since they are dispersable but only break into 10 mg each. I can't count each mg. But I skip family stuff and hide out in my house because I'm so embarrassed by the way I look now. I wonder how I'd feel if I jumped off Methadone at my current dose? It would literally take years to do it slowly like everyone suggests. Those last 20 mg are nearly impossible. If I could just go back to taking two or three Lortabs a day...hardly a deadly addiction, and not even close to the amount of medicine I take now.
I post a lot at We Speak Methadone:
http://members.boardhost.com/SPEAKMETHADONE/
It's a good place to get a lot of different opinions by others on Methadone. For off topic stuff, I like this board:
http://b4.boards2go.com/boards/board.cgi?&user=undun
Take Care,
Lindsay
Posted by twainesworld on February 2, 2004, at 12:28:59
In reply to Re: Drug Interaction??, posted by Lindsay Rae on February 2, 2004, at 11:46:58
Hi Lindsay,
BELIEEEEVE MEE, I hear what you are saying about the weight gain and the sweet tooth!!!!! I was never a sweets person myself either until Methadone, and now, like you, I can't seem to get ENOUGH ice cream!!!! :o| You aren't still on 80mgs. are you? If so, I would NOT advise jumping off at that high a dose!!!!! About 3 years ago I tried to taper off, going down what is considered pretty quickly for Methadone, at 5mgs. a week (starting at 50mgs.), and I was DEATHLY ILL by the time I hit 30mgs.!!! It was HELL!!!! If you REALLY want to get off, and aren't too worried about your pain situation, I have heard good things about Rapid Detox (they do it differently now, I guess, and it's pretty good some say), and you wouldn't have to suffer so much through that nasty withdrawal!! I had a friend a few years back who jumped off at 10mgs., and, although she wasn't MISERABLE from minute to minute, she didn't really sleep for about a year, and kept having these phantom pains and panic attacks off & on for about 2 years afterwards! I lost touch with her, so I don't know how she's doing now, unfortunately!! If you are only dissatisfied with the Methadone because of the weight situation (but it works great for you otherwise), I would SERIOUSLY give it some more time!!! I DO know that it IS possible to lose weight on it (just harder for us than it is for the average joe-ette), and for pain control it can't be beat (in my opinion)!!! Plus, I don't know if you experienced this on Vicodin, Darvocet, etc., but I got the WORST rebound headaches & icky feelings & moodiness every few hours when it was almost time to take more...and then when I DID take more, I felt way too drugged up (and not in a good way either) --- and I don't get any of that on Methadone!!! It does have SOME drawbacks (like the weight thing, for one), and I DO worry about getting pregnant (unlike you I haven't been able to get pg again since a miscarriage 4 years ago), but for the MOST part, I am MUCH happier on it than on any of the other pain meds the million docs I saw tried me on!!! By the way, if you have and/or are bothered by the sweating/overheating problem that a lot of people on Methadone have -- it DOES go away after awhile!!! ;o)
Thanks a LOT for the info about 'We Speak Methadone' -- I didn't know it existed, and I'm excited to go check it out!!! :o)
Don't feel like you have to hide out in your house!! I've done that myself, and, believe me, it just makes you eat MORE ice cream!!! Buy the cutest outfits you can, fix yourself up really pretty, and get out there when you feel like it!! If anything, it will make you feel more motivated to do what it takes to get that awful extra weight off (and, according to my friend Fallen, that means diet AND exercise -- uugggghhh)!!! ;o)
Thanks for your friendship....... :o)
Posted by Fallen4myT on February 2, 2004, at 15:29:56
In reply to Re: Drug Interaction??, posted by Lindsay Rae on February 2, 2004, at 11:31:09
Aww lindsay sorry too I was a little scared cause I am new that people reading that would think I give bad advise and won't talk or listen to me..thus I guess I was over reactiong a bit too..No problem :)
> Sorry about that! I only saw that part and it made me think of the baseball player...I wasn't trying to bash your post, only the website it came from, as it made me angry that these herbs are considered "safe" before they are evaluated by the FDA, and it takes someone dying to move it over to the "unsafe" category. Again, sorry if it sounded like I was blaming that on you...that wasn't my intention at all.
>
> Peace,
> Lindsay
Posted by Lindsay Rae on February 2, 2004, at 21:29:55
In reply to Re: Drug Interaction?? » Lindsay Rae, posted by twainesworld on February 2, 2004, at 12:28:59
>UROD, or Rapid Opioid Detoxification, is dangerous and mediocre at best. Even the so-called "new" procedures are horrific. I heard about Florida Detox (floridadetox.com) on the radio, and I was curious so I checked it out online. There are three online testimonies from happy customers--or actors--not really sure which. But out of the dozens of people I talked to personally about this, the $10,000 would be better spent on horse crap. You are admitted on, say Friday. You are put under anasthesia and administered something equivalent to Narcan, draining the Methadone from the opiate receptors, a job that takes up to year when done naturally. They also add anti-seizure drugs so you don't go into convulsions while you are going through nightmarish detox overnight, completely unconscious. That is if you are one of the lucky ones who doesn't wake up during the procedure (I know people who did and couldn't describe their pain and horror). The next day, they watch over you while you rest, since all you're supposedly going to feel is "groggy." They implant Naltrexone into your body so you can't decide for yourself whether you are going to go back on Methadone or take anything to ease your pain. The Naltrexone will effectively block any and all opioids from your system, and if you do take them, you become extremely ill. Dr. Spinogle takes you to church with him for a week or so after the procedure; that is your aftercare.
You asked if my dose is still 80 mg. Actually, no it's not--it's 160, double the amount I was taking then. My dose went up to 115 when I was in my third trimester of pregnancy, and then I switched from the clinic to a private pain clinic, and I get the diskettes. When Chris died in November (he was the father of my baby--we were going to marry when he cleaned up his act...he OD'd the night before he was supposed to start a treatment program for the first time--but that's a whole different topic for another post, I think), I slowly went up to another diskette per day for a total of 160. Yesterday I decided to stop taking the fourth one--I probably don't need it, and I can be sure I won't feel withdrawal discomfort since I haven't been on that dose for very long.
Do you go to a clinic or a pain doctor?
Peace,
Lindsay
Hi Lindsay,
>
> BELIEEEEVE MEE, I hear what you are saying about the weight gain and the sweet tooth!!!!! I was never a sweets person myself either until Methadone, and now, like you, I can't seem to get ENOUGH ice cream!!!! :o| You aren't still on 80mgs. are you? If so, I would NOT advise jumping off at that high a dose!!!!! About 3 years ago I tried to taper off, going down what is considered pretty quickly for Methadone, at 5mgs. a week (starting at 50mgs.), and I was DEATHLY ILL by the time I hit 30mgs.!!! It was HELL!!!! If you REALLY want to get off, and aren't too worried about your pain situation, I have heard good things about Rapid Detox (they do it differently now, I guess, and it's pretty good some say), and you wouldn't have to suffer so much through that nasty withdrawal!! I had a friend a few years back who jumped off at 10mgs., and, although she wasn't MISERABLE from minute to minute, she didn't really sleep for about a year, and kept having these phantom pains and panic attacks off & on for about 2 years afterwards! I lost touch with her, so I don't know how she's doing now, unfortunately!! If you are only dissatisfied with the Methadone because of the weight situation (but it works great for you otherwise), I would SERIOUSLY give it some more time!!! I DO know that it IS possible to lose weight on it (just harder for us than it is for the average joe-ette), and for pain control it can't be beat (in my opinion)!!! Plus, I don't know if you experienced this on Vicodin, Darvocet, etc., but I got the WORST rebound headaches & icky feelings & moodiness every few hours when it was almost time to take more...and then when I DID take more, I felt way too drugged up (and not in a good way either) --- and I don't get any of that on Methadone!!! It does have SOME drawbacks (like the weight thing, for one), and I DO worry about getting pregnant (unlike you I haven't been able to get pg again since a miscarriage 4 years ago), but for the MOST part, I am MUCH happier on it than on any of the other pain meds the million docs I saw tried me on!!! By the way, if you have and/or are bothered by the sweating/overheating problem that a lot of people on Methadone have -- it DOES go away after awhile!!! ;o)
>
> Thanks a LOT for the info about 'We Speak Methadone' -- I didn't know it existed, and I'm excited to go check it out!!! :o)
>
> Don't feel like you have to hide out in your house!! I've done that myself, and, believe me, it just makes you eat MORE ice cream!!! Buy the cutest outfits you can, fix yourself up really pretty, and get out there when you feel like it!! If anything, it will make you feel more motivated to do what it takes to get that awful extra weight off (and, according to my friend Fallen, that means diet AND exercise -- uugggghhh)!!! ;o)
>
> Thanks for your friendship....... :o)
>
Posted by twainesworld on February 3, 2004, at 1:14:54
In reply to Re: Drug Interaction??, posted by Lindsay Rae on February 2, 2004, at 21:29:55
Hey Lindsay,
Gosh, listen to ME trying to tell you about Methadone ---- when I could learn a lot about it (and everything that goes with it) from YOU!!! ;o) I didn't realize Rapid Detox was so horrible!!! I knew someone who underwent the procedure (back in the 'dark ages' for UROD), and he didn't mention all the horrors (then again, as I recall, he didn't stay clean either)!! I can't even IMAGINE waking up during the procedure, and didn't realize that was even a possibility!!! And this 'doctor' taking you to CHURCH with him for a week afterwards as AFTERCARE...? That's ludicrous!!!! :o( GAWWWD!!! I guess I shouldn't be suggesting the treatment to people when I OBVIOUSLY know nothing about it!! Thanks for teaching me!!!!
I am SO sorry about Chris -- that must have been (and must BE) SO painful & difficult for you!!!! How old is your baby? Is it tough parenting a baby by yourself while on Methadone (...aside from just the regular 'toughness' of parenting a baby by yourself period)?! I worry about SO many things about having a baby on Meth -- especially about things like 'will my baby have a terrible time detoxing after birth', 'what if I nod while holding my baby', etc.!!?
I am seeing a private doctor now (thank GOD), but I went to a clinic for 4 years when I lived in Seattle (where I'm from). It was a JOKE of a clinic, and the administrator didn't give a rat's a** about the clients -- just about depriving the clinic & clients of necessary programs so he, personally, could take in more money, & the imagined 'prestige' he thought being a clinic administrator gave him (which was ESPECIALLY comical, as he was practically illiterate)!! As you were saying on the WSM board, the cost for MY clinic was high also ($600 a month - and that was sliding scale)! It is MUCH better seeing a private doc!!! Not only does she actually CARE about me, my pain, my feelings, my life, etc., but being trusted to get my script once a month is a BIG plus, as compared to daily dosing (not to mention no surprise UA's & not being treated like a criminal)!! I've never taken the diskettes -- I'm on tablets now, but they used Methadose at the clinic in Seattle. What is the difference between the three, and why are the diskettes preferable (in that your clinic uses those instead)?? I'd sure like to talk to you in greater detail about your experiences, your pain, and everything else (if you wouldn't mind?)! Are we allowed to post email addy's?
Thanks again for setting the record straight on the UROD -- I was WAYYYY off!!!! :o|
Take Care...........
Posted by Lindsay Rae on February 3, 2004, at 23:06:09
In reply to Re: Lindsay, posted by twainesworld on February 3, 2004, at 1:14:54
>Hey Twain,
To answer your question, I used to go to a clinic, but being that I became dependent on these narcotic painkillers through a doctor, it stands to reason that I have documents supporting my permanent spinal and disk problems enabling me to see a pain clinic doctor, rather than going through the clinic system. However, I was only accepted by this doctor on the condition that I see a counselor (she used to work for the clinic but was fired when they found out she was also working for the doctor). I get the diskettes from the pharmacy monthly, although all the clinics in Florida that I've been to offer diskettes for a little extra money.
I lived with Chris until my ninth month pregnant, when nesting set in and I felt a need to protect the baby. Emotionless, I packed my car and headed to my mom's house, six hours away. The drug dealer coming to our bedroom window in the middle of the night was the last straw for me. I wasn't here three weeks before my new OB/GYN insisted, during a routine ultrasound, that we head to the hospital immediately for an emergency C-Section. The baby was "growth restricted" according to the doctor, and she would do better outside the womb than in my body for another three weeks. My old OB might not have picked up on the lack of activity in the unborn baby, so I feel like fate brought us here. On the other hand, I was taking a huge chance with the hospital down here. They assured me they had experience with Methadone-born babies, but in fact they hadn't. I mentally gathered all the info I'd gotten from other women on MMT who gave birth, and I insisted the neonatologist use small doses of Morphine over four to six weeks to assure that Amanda would have a smooth transition, since I'd heard from moms whose babies were sent right home that the babies struggled for weeks and were miserable. Here's where it got tricky: Amanda's urine was tested for Methadone, and there wasn't a trace of it. I was thrilled and called all my family members to tell them I'd be taking her right home. The pediatrician was quick to piss on my parade--she told me that urine testing was not an accurate way to check for it, but the first bowel movement (micconium) was. I asked that they check that, but they blew off my request, assuring me that my baby was indeed showing signs of withdrawal, including occasional sneezing, muscle tension, excessive sucking, and hiccups. I was naive, and I wanted her to be comfortable, so I trusted that Morphine was the way to go. They kept her for five weeks, and I literally had to insist she come home at that point because she didn't need to be there. The nurses had to score her at the end of each shift, and they kept giving her a low enough score so she wouldn't be released. The scores were backed up by the nurse's reasoning, including a sneeze here, a yawn there, it was absolutely ridiculous. Come to find out, the neonatologist had only dealt with one "similar" situation, and that was a baby born to a mother addicted to Oxycontin, which is a whole different set of circumstances. They sent that baby home, and he died. So they weren't taking any chances with mine. The faculty lumps all drugs together, so I might as well have had a crack baby for the way I was treated. But that's another story entirely. My counselor was shocked when I told her about Amanda's detox in her first few weeks of life, attesting to the fact that Methadone in fact DOES NOT cross the blood/brain barrier or the placenta. I will do more research on this topic because I'd hate for you to go through unnecessary worry about the baby if this is true. But she could have been wrog--it wouldn't be the first time! Amanda was an angel in the NICU; the nurse's got very attached, although I spent 18 hours a day there. Sure there were a couple who assumed I was using illegal street drugs while pregnant just because I was on Methadone, and my attending nurse who told my parents to get me to a hospital to detox off the Methadone so I can take care of my baby. That ignorant bit__ should be reprimanded for what she told my parents and for throwing out my prescription for Percoset that the doctor gave her to send me home with. That's about the sum of my history in the related topics. Sorry for the long post. EMAIL me at anytime at:
Lindsay_Rae_8@hotmail.comHey Lindsay,
>
> Gosh, listen to ME trying to tell you about Methadone ---- when I could learn a lot about it (and everything that goes with it) from YOU!!! ;o) I didn't realize Rapid Detox was so horrible!!! I knew someone who underwent the procedure (back in the 'dark ages' for UROD), and he didn't mention all the horrors (then again, as I recall, he didn't stay clean either)!! I can't even IMAGINE waking up during the procedure, and didn't realize that was even a possibility!!! And this 'doctor' taking you to CHURCH with him for a week afterwards as AFTERCARE...? That's ludicrous!!!! :o( GAWWWD!!! I guess I shouldn't be suggesting the treatment to people when I OBVIOUSLY know nothing about it!! Thanks for teaching me!!!!
>
> I am SO sorry about Chris -- that must have been (and must BE) SO painful & difficult for you!!!! How old is your baby? Is it tough parenting a baby by yourself while on Methadone (...aside from just the regular 'toughness' of parenting a baby by yourself period)?! I worry about SO many things about having a baby on Meth -- especially about things like 'will my baby have a terrible time detoxing after birth', 'what if I nod while holding my baby', etc.!!?
>
> I am seeing a private doctor now (thank GOD), but I went to a clinic for 4 years when I lived in Seattle (where I'm from). It was a JOKE of a clinic, and the administrator didn't give a rat's a** about the clients -- just about depriving the clinic & clients of necessary programs so he, personally, could take in more money, & the imagined 'prestige' he thought being a clinic administrator gave him (which was ESPECIALLY comical, as he was practically illiterate)!! As you were saying on the WSM board, the cost for MY clinic was high also ($600 a month - and that was sliding scale)! It is MUCH better seeing a private doc!!! Not only does she actually CARE about me, my pain, my feelings, my life, etc., but being trusted to get my script once a month is a BIG plus, as compared to daily dosing (not to mention no surprise UA's & not being treated like a criminal)!! I've never taken the diskettes -- I'm on tablets now, but they used Methadose at the clinic in Seattle. What is the difference between the three, and why are the diskettes preferable (in that your clinic uses those instead)?? I'd sure like to talk to you in greater detail about your experiences, your pain, and everything else (if you wouldn't mind?)! Are we allowed to post email addy's?
>
> Thanks again for setting the record straight on the UROD -- I was WAYYYY off!!!! :o|
>
> Take Care...........
>
This is the end of the thread.
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