![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 24 to 48 of 48. Go back in thread:
Posted by Beckett on February 18, 2012, at 19:55:23
In reply to Re: Hope is a dangerous thing, posted by Beckett on February 18, 2012, at 19:40:17
Oh. My apologies for being so terse. I am not endorsing the no hope thing. I'm just not feeling super and sleep deprived on top.
Posted by Beckett on February 18, 2012, at 20:01:02
In reply to Re: Hope is a dangerous thing » Beckett, posted by torrid2 on February 18, 2012, at 19:51:17
But how true, or should I say how does one interpret that? When is it true?
Sometimes hope is like an endorsement or an agreement to allow something better or different to take place. An agreement that yes this really is abysmal and we are now working with (non-secular if you will) positive faith...?
Posted by Beckett on February 18, 2012, at 20:14:12
In reply to Re: Hope is a dangerous thing » torrid2, posted by Beckett on February 18, 2012, at 20:01:02
I meant secular for me. See? I am tired.
Posted by sigismund on February 18, 2012, at 20:15:08
In reply to Re: Hope is a dangerous thing » Beckett, posted by torrid2 on February 18, 2012, at 19:51:17
EM Cioran always makes me laugh, so I went looking for quotes from him about hope. I found
>We would not be interested in human beings if we did not have the hope of someday meeting someone worse off than ourselves.
>Everything is pathology, except for indifference.I must get hold of 'Thinking against the Self" again. It was one of the most exhilarating essays I have read. I didn't know what to make of it.
Posted by sigismund on February 18, 2012, at 20:19:02
In reply to Re: Hope is a dangerous thing, posted by sigismund on February 18, 2012, at 20:15:08
From wiki........
Pessimism characterizes all of his works, which many critics trace back to events of his childhood (in 1935 his mother is reputed to have told him that if she had known he was going to be so unhappy she would have aborted him). However, Cioran's pessimism (in fact, his skepticism, even nihilism) remains both inexhaustible and, in its own particular manner, joyful; it is not the sort of pessimism which can be traced back to simple origins, single origins themselves being questionable. When Cioran's mother spoke to him of abortion, he confessed that it did not disturb him, but made an extraordinary impression which led to an insight about the nature of existence ("I'm simply an accident. Why take it all so seriously?" is what he later said in reference to the incident)[cite this quote].
Posted by Beckett on February 18, 2012, at 20:23:25
In reply to Re: Hope is a dangerous thing, posted by sigismund on February 18, 2012, at 20:19:02
Where is he from? Joyful pessimism is interesting. It's all up from there.
Posted by Beckett on February 18, 2012, at 20:35:48
In reply to Re: Hope is a dangerous thing » sigismund, posted by Beckett on February 18, 2012, at 20:23:25
I looked him up. Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emil_Cioran
The NYT obit said his work was born of seven years of insomnia. Ouch. http://www.nytimes.com/1995/06/22/obituaries/e-m-cioran-84-novelist-and-philosopher-of-despair.html
Posted by sigismund on February 18, 2012, at 20:59:11
In reply to Re: Hope is a dangerous thing, posted by Beckett on February 18, 2012, at 20:35:48
He's a humourist.....
>However much I have frequented the mystics, deep down I have always sided with the Devil; unable to equal him in power, I have tried to be worthy of him, at least, in >insolence, acrimony, arbitrariness and caprice."
Posted by Phillipa on February 18, 2012, at 21:01:05
In reply to Re: Hope is a dangerous thing, posted by Beckett on February 18, 2012, at 20:35:48
Hijack my friend was on latunda has insomnia so being switched to another. And horrible sinus problems from it. No sapris mentioned.Phillipa
Posted by torrid2 on February 18, 2012, at 21:15:43
In reply to Re: Hope is a dangerous thing, posted by Beckett on February 18, 2012, at 19:55:23
endorsing no hope is a worthy statagy, hope will lead to pain. I'm to restless to give up hope.
Posted by Beckett on February 18, 2012, at 21:22:31
In reply to Re: Hope is a dangerous thing » Beckett, posted by torrid2 on February 18, 2012, at 21:15:43
I might be getting ready to give up some hope. If I do, I'll let you know how it goes.
Posted by sigismund on February 18, 2012, at 23:17:16
In reply to Re: Hope is a dangerous thing » torrid2, posted by Beckett on February 18, 2012, at 21:22:31
You have no hope of giving up hope :)
Posted by Beckett on February 18, 2012, at 23:38:25
In reply to Re: Hope is a dangerous thing, posted by sigismund on February 18, 2012, at 23:17:16
You have outed me I'm afraid.
Posted by SLS on February 19, 2012, at 7:32:17
In reply to Re: Hope is a dangerous thing » sleepygirl2, posted by 10derheart on February 13, 2012, at 18:32:29
> I get that, but....
>
> ..wouldn't imagining that things can *never* (= hopelessness) be different make reality feel even worse than that?
>
> I've always found the absence of hope to be dangerous to every aspect of my health...it's as essential to me as meds, therapy, family, faith....Hope has kept me alive for the 3 decades since my first antidepressant trial failed.
I think that hoping for something imagined that cannot ever be is dangerous, not hope itself. It guarantees perpetual disappointment and demoralization. It produces instant hopelessness if one believes that what is imagined is impossible.
Perhaps there are two kinds of hope: sighted and blind. I have always been able to maintain sighted hope because I always saw logical alternatives for addressing my plight. When I ran out of things to see, I lost much of my hope. All I had left was to choose whether to live or die with the pain. I was not prepared to die. So, I had to hope that something beyond my imagination would happen to save me. This is blind hope. I guess blind hope is necessary when one continues to hope for things that they believe can never be. Of course, a belief can be wrong. I try to allow for the existence of uncertainty. In the absence of sighted hope, uncertainty allows for the continuation of blind hope.
But what do I know? These things are what apply to me. They may not apply to anyone else.
- Scott
Posted by sleepygirl2 on February 19, 2012, at 12:00:28
In reply to Hope is a dangerous thing, posted by sleepygirl2 on February 13, 2012, at 17:54:48
http://www.online-literature.com/dickinson/827/
Hope is the thing with feathers
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all,And sweetest in the gale is heard;
And sore must be the storm
That could abash the little bird
That kept so many warm.I've heard it in the chilliest land
And on the strangest sea;
Yet, never, in extremity,
It asked a crumb of me.
Posted by SLS on February 19, 2012, at 21:40:58
In reply to I used to like this poem, posted by sleepygirl2 on February 19, 2012, at 12:00:28
> http://www.online-literature.com/dickinson/827/
>
>
> Hope is the thing with feathers
> That perches in the soul,
> And sings the tune without the words,
> And never stops at all,
>
> And sweetest in the gale is heard;
> And sore must be the storm
> That could abash the little bird
> That kept so many warm.
>
> I've heard it in the chilliest land
> And on the strangest sea;
> Yet, never, in extremity,
> It asked a crumb of me.
I like it.Do you still like it?
- Scott
Posted by sleepygirl2 on February 20, 2012, at 8:49:45
In reply to Re: I used to like this poem, posted by SLS on February 19, 2012, at 21:40:58
I guess I still do.
Pessimism is getting the better of me.
Posted by Beckett on February 20, 2012, at 9:12:09
In reply to Re: I used to like this poem » SLS, posted by sleepygirl2 on February 20, 2012, at 8:49:45
Not for long sg.
Posted by sigismund on February 20, 2012, at 18:26:57
In reply to Re: I used to like this poem » SLS, posted by sleepygirl2 on February 20, 2012, at 8:49:45
Here's a book I want to read....
Posted by sigismund on February 20, 2012, at 18:31:19
In reply to Re: I used to like this poem, posted by sigismund on February 20, 2012, at 18:26:57
I wonder what this means....the last bit.
He shows that the true legacy of European civilisation is not the false idealisms that have almost destroyed it - in the shapes of Nazism, fascism and communism - but the culture of forgiveness and irony which we must now protect from those whom it offends.
Posted by Beckett on February 20, 2012, at 22:03:17
In reply to Re: I used to like this poem, posted by sigismund on February 20, 2012, at 18:31:19
When you read it, will you tell us?
I might see why one might need to be protect forgiveness. It's difficult to achieve.
Posted by Beckett on February 20, 2012, at 22:28:25
In reply to Re: I used to like this poem, posted by sigismund on February 20, 2012, at 18:31:19
And it seems particularly disagreeable, almost a weakness to some.
Posted by sigismund on February 20, 2012, at 23:49:18
In reply to Re: I used to like this poem, posted by Beckett on February 20, 2012, at 22:28:25
Well, Stalin said that gratitude is a dog's disease.
Posted by sigismund on February 21, 2012, at 0:03:07
In reply to Re: I used to like this poem » Beckett, posted by sigismund on February 20, 2012, at 23:49:18
Whereas William Blake said that gratitude was heaven itself.
I enjoy reading about Stalin. I have been reading "In the Court of the Red Tsar" for years. Just before sleep. Lots of stuff to reflect on.
>Montefiore gives an unprecedented understanding of Stalins dictatorship, and a Stalin as human and complicated as he is brutal.
Montefiore is not frightened to present Stalin's (how do you put this?) positive/attractive qualities (I must stop this). Well, you have to put it some way. Lots of people were very impressed.
I must have been thinking about In the Court of the Crimson King. It's not called in the court of the red tzar at all.
Posted by Elanor Roosevelt on February 27, 2012, at 20:06:00
In reply to Hope is a dangerous thing, posted by sleepygirl2 on February 13, 2012, at 17:54:48
Douglas Adams says "Don't Panic"
I try to keep that in mind
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Social | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.