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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 21 of 21. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Christ_empowered on May 6, 2011, at 20:44:11
So, I was in a van the other day and I thought I heard the people behind me talking about me. Never mind that I'm on medication, never mind that I'm in therapy--I still heard voices.
But the voices I heard--the content--would be totally unreasonable for the people behind me to be saying. They didn't know me, and it was a church van on the way to a revival. I kind of doubt they'd be that mean-spirited.
The content was similar to stuff people used to say about me in the small town I grew up in and returned to. For several years, I went from being decidedly unpopular to being THE outcast. I was treated like dirt, even in public places (God bless small town, Southern US).
So, I'm glad for the medication and the therapy. Combined, they've given me more rationality, more equanimity, more "space" between me and the psychosis (or..whatever that is).
Anyway, I hate to sound all traumatized, but can you have PTSD from being an outcast? From being talked about and ridiculed and rejected? Or is it my propensity towards psychosis mixed with unfortunate experiences? Both?
Thanks.
Posted by sleepygirl2 on May 6, 2011, at 23:03:15
In reply to I think I have PTSD, posted by Christ_empowered on May 6, 2011, at 20:44:11
I imagine it's some of both. I haven't emerged unaffected from some very negative experiences with people. I expect people now to judge me harshly, imagine them talking about me. I carry it with me.
I hope you're managing alright.
Take care :-)
Posted by Phillipa on May 7, 2011, at 11:30:54
In reply to I think I have PTSD, posted by Christ_empowered on May 6, 2011, at 20:44:11
CE you have been doing so well. Yes I do believe PTSD is a multi spectum illness. It strikes at different times with old triggers. My theory anyway. Anything happen lately that would lower your tolerance switch as I call it? Phillipa
Posted by Christ_empowered on May 7, 2011, at 13:13:03
In reply to Re: I think I have PTSD » Christ_empowered, posted by Phillipa on May 7, 2011, at 11:30:54
I think I've been self-isolating too much. When I do that, all the stuff that happened in the past starts popping up in my daily thoughts and even in my dreams. Luckily, the meds calm me down sufficiently to allow me to still function, so its not the worst thing in the world. Maybe I'm over-exaggerating...PTSD might not be the problem; just minor flashbacks and what not.
Thanks!
Posted by floatingbridge on May 7, 2011, at 17:18:49
In reply to Re: I think I have PTSD, posted by Christ_empowered on May 7, 2011, at 13:13:03
CE, there is a recent thread on meds board about social anxiety (I think that's the title). Anyways, hyperfocus supplied at least one link on ptsd and bullying.
The entire thread was interesting to me, and the link discussed bullying in a wider context at times, like being a social outcast.
Being or feeling like an outcast is painful. You may or may not meet the criteria for ptsd, but you can certainly be sensitive to those feelings and have issues with them w/o having ptsd. I hope you don't have ptsd--it's a bear. If you do, I know you can deal. But don't let a dx stop you from taking your very real, very uncomfortable experience to therapy. Maybe you can carry less of that small town stuff with you as you move forward. That would be good, yes?
You've got sooo much going for you. I'm behind you and others are here, too.
Posted by hyperfocus on May 13, 2011, at 12:59:45
In reply to I think I have PTSD, posted by Christ_empowered on May 6, 2011, at 20:44:11
A condition called Complex PTSD can arise if you've lived under oppresive circumstances where there was no escape for a long time. The symptoms include extreme paranoia and dissociation. It hasn't made it into the DSM as yet but people who suffer from it can tell you whether or not it actually exists. So yeah it is possible you have some form of PTSD - plain vanilla PTSd can result from just one highly traumatic event but C-PTSD can result from low-level fear and oppression extending over a period of time.
Posted by Christ_empowered on May 14, 2011, at 21:28:11
In reply to Re: I think I have PTSD, posted by hyperfocus on May 13, 2011, at 12:59:45
hey, hyperfocus. As much as I dislike official diagnoses, that one makes a lot of sense (I guess I only dislike diagnoses until I find one I like, lol.)
When I had my "manic" episode, I had extreme dissociation. This "new" sort of PTSD you describe seems to fit my situation perfectly.
Thanks.
Posted by floatingbridge on May 15, 2011, at 9:35:46
In reply to Re: I think I have PTSD, posted by Christ_empowered on May 14, 2011, at 21:28:11
What is disassociation? I don't think I really understand.
Thanks.
(And sorry CE if the dx fits--. I love your comment though about accepting the dx's you like :-) )
Posted by Christ_empowered on May 15, 2011, at 12:28:13
In reply to Re: I think I have PTSD, posted by Christ_empowered on May 14, 2011, at 21:28:11
hey. Dissociation was, to me, a "spacing out" from my own mental processes. The so-called "dissociative features" in my "manic episode" got more intense as the psychosis and agitation increased. I think it allowed me to at least go to school (I was in college at the time) and get a bit done.
I was spaced out/dissociative to the point that when I got mugged and was hit on the head with a pipe, I barely even felt it. I just walked away (a car came and my attackers ran off), went into a gas station, got a Gatorade, and then the (understandably freaked out) clerk called an ambulance. Emotionally, the whole thing didn't really register; after I was discharged from the hospital, I just walked around town, covered in blood, until I was sedated and put into a mental hospital.
Posted by floatingbridge on May 15, 2011, at 13:48:54
In reply to dissocive 'issues', posted by Christ_empowered on May 15, 2011, at 12:28:13
Oh, CE, I am so sorry that happened to you! That's so awful. I feel angry and sad thinking about it. Super virtual hugs to you. :-/
So disassociation is, maybe, it seems to me, to be a normal function that goes too far past the beneficial stage? I know that in working through my own recovery with both meds & therapy, I recalled some very bad, violent incidents that I didn't 'feel'. I just kept on going w/o realizing that they were still very alive inside me :( Things are getting much better now.
Thanks for the explanation, CE. A few weeks ago I asked my pdoc if I was disassociative, and he adamantly said no. So I believe him. We've worked together for three years. He 'changed' my dx from BPnos to c-ptsd. Some people might say so what? But for me it meant coming into a greater awareness of 'what happened' to me, and how events and circumstances affected me. The fuller
awareness was and can be incredibly painful, but it is better than before when I felt I was shadow boxing non-stop and blaming myself for 'everything'.I recall your posts about not liking psychiatry. I don't blame you. Who 'likes' it? I would like you to have a good therapeutic alliance--it can be helpful, and it doesn't need to be a shrink. How
do you feel about that? I want you to do well. Anyone who has taken some hits in life deserves some good-enough living.fb
Posted by hyperfocus on May 15, 2011, at 15:15:36
In reply to Re: dissocive 'issues' » Christ_empowered, posted by floatingbridge on May 15, 2011, at 13:48:54
This describes it pretty well: http://www.therapist4me.com/Dissociation.htm
Dissociation is somewhat hard to explain and manifests differently for different people. It's basically a severe marring of a persons self-identity and emotional integrity and position in time and space.
For me, one of the first things I began to suffer with as my SP developed was a very uncomfortable feeling as I was walking that my legs didn't belong to me. By that time I was getting bullied like everyday, not physically, but psychologically as it seemed everybody in the world had ganged up to taunt and harrass me about my appearance, including the manner of how I walked which I was told looked like some manner of animal. Like I said it's hard to describe but it felt somehow that I was like floating, like I wasn't connected to my body, and the harder I tried to correct my walking the worse it got. Many times when I was being abused I'd just consciously sort of separate from the situation and those people and ignore it or pretend it wasn't bothering me. As the years went by and my paranoia ratcheted up I began fearing and believing that everybody was watching me and laughing at me, and the dissociation got worse as I tried everything I could to take myself away from the most horrifying painful thing I had ever experienced, to which I got dropped off to by car every morning for seven years.One thing most people with dissociation report is emotional numbing. It's almost a universal method of coping with trauma - very many victims of rape report going numb, despite the pain, and just sort of standing away and watching what's happening. But it's two-edged sword because after the trauma sometimes you apparently can't stop your mind from going back to it. Many days my skin feels like it's on fire. Reliving things from the past is more than memories - I'm actually transported back there and can relive the feelings, and that awful horrifying sense of everybody looking and laughing at me. Meanwhile I go through present life like a robot - cold and emotionless - with nothing hurting or making me feel good or bad. It's like my whole mind is filled up with the past and doesn't have any processing time left for the present, I guess sort of like when your computer gets bogged down with a web page with 100 Flash videos and stops responding.
As you get older dissociation can become extreme and debilitating. As an adult, when the traumatic times were past, I've always had this fragmentation of mind, where it seems that my thinking is split into at least three pieces or voices. There is this very skinny ugly deformed stupid kid who doesn't even look human, there's this hate-filled, criticizing, obscene person who constantly berates the kid for his worthlessness, and there's this calm objective rational analytical person, who is the part that is writing this, who stands at a distance and cooly surveys the other two fighting and trys to mediate and rationalize with them and and makes recommendations on possible diagnoses and medications. The third voice is what keeps me together and maitains a veneer of normality and is the reason I'm still alive or not locked up somewhere, but it can't do anything about the fear and shame and anger and it can't feel love or happiness. They all basically have their own spheres of inluence. The reason I take meds is to try to integrate these three parts.
Like I said it's hard to describe really and has a wide scope of symptoms but it al stems from severe trauma. Everybody dissociates when they daydream or fantasize or become immersed in something, but for some people it becomes a permanent part of who they are, as their mind struggles to deal with something that is as alien to living as death.
Posted by floatingbridge on May 15, 2011, at 17:30:58
In reply to Re: dissocive 'issues', posted by hyperfocus on May 15, 2011, at 15:15:36
My Lord, you have done alot of work that is really great! I wish life was easier for you--I am so sorry for everything. Yes. I recognize those three parts very well. Your post is very helpful and eloquent. It has me thinking. So I'm not alone. Not that any of us really are....
When I trialed Lyrica, I thought I might have had a stroke, because I had a few
times of sheer hateful rage pour through me. I give myself big big points for not becoming outright abusive during those episodes to others. I ranted and I guess that 'observor' side watched as I went on and on with such criticism; it was as if I involuntary held some terrible weapon
and kept spinning around so as not to
hurt anyone all the while that it was hurting me, as well, just to hold it. I had to protect myself and others.I admit that I am still incorporating the experience rather than use it as another piece of evidence against myself. That's
big progress for me. I think (hope) the power of that internal angry person who berates and scrutinizes me is being incorporated into my core. Incorporated is a great word. Brought into a body.
That very angry person recognized my distress as a child--a wise mind gone insane by being asked to do too much. First, it tried to minimize my vulnerability
to attack. Then the angry person also kept my core humanity intact by recognizing my basic human needs for justice, safety, and love by attributing blame and taking responsibility. Never
mind that my anger was turned inward and I became responsible for *the world*. Those three things being in
short supply, my creative processes kicked in. How could I blame my parent/love objects? I needed not only to be loved, but to be able to love. I felt such pain and breech of identity as a child, yet had no means of addressing it or even escaping it, like you being dropped off at school. To me *it* was everywhere.Someday I will write that angry beast a love note. At least a thank you card.
Right now I'm finding a school for my child, and it is an amazing and difficult process because, as my pdoc rightly
spotted, my child happens to be my biggest trigger. I'd throw myself in front
of a train for him. My therapist reminds me that there is no train. That is history. But as someone mentioned in another thread, history still lives. So I get ramped up and talked down about secondary trauma constantly.The floating feeling you mention. I have that often. I thought about changing my screen name even because I need more ground beneath my feet because I am an older adult, and the trajectory of my illness is within the example of untreated ptsd: fibromyalgia, MDD. I didn't begin active recovery until very late. I certainly don't feel everyone with ptsd follows the same course. I work with not blaming myself for becoming ill, too. It's second nature to use everything against myself, but I am learning. And I truly find myself with very company in my recovery process. Many stellar folks. Kind, good
folks.Have read about prophylactic measures being studied for ptsd prevention? I've read that researchers are mapping the windows of long and short term memory storage. Now this would really only help victims of discrete trauma. Somewhere after 12-24 hours, immediate memories
are stored as permanent memory in another area of the brain. If morphine is given at a sufficient dose within this therapeutic window it interferes with the memory storage in ways that show promise for crime, war, and disaster victims.Thank you for discussing some of your
experience and knowledge on board, and for speaking up the way you do. I find your input very helpful.fb
Posted by Christ_empowered on May 15, 2011, at 18:12:31
In reply to dissocive 'issues', posted by Christ_empowered on May 15, 2011, at 12:28:13
Thanks for your posts. Like your other posts, I found it uplifting, encouraging, and helpful.
I do have a good therapeutic alliance with my therapist, but that might end--I may be joining the church he pastors at some point in the somewhat near future, at which point he will no longer be able to be my therapist. Oh well. I've gotten a lot of work done and I'm now functioning better, so I really can't ask for much more.
Psychiatry has just seemed so oppressive to me, for a long time. Take this, don't take that, doesn't matter that its your brain, do what I say. I mean, I recognize my own need for medication, or at least I recognize that I do better on certain meds than without them (I guess there's something of a difference there), so I'm cool with non-coercive psychiatry, in theory at least.
In practice...I don't think of them as doctors. I mean, what other kind of doctor sees you for 3 minutes and hands you prescriptions, without doing any sort of physical examination? What other kind of doctor prescribes drugs that profoundly affect your brain w/o, you know...checking out your brain? I once thought of psychiatry as sort of like pain management for the psyche, but then I realized: even pain management doctors require MRIs and such before they dole out the meds.
I'm fine with the shrink I have now. He's old school, reasonably friendly. I think he appreciates the fact that I'm doing therapy, looking for work, and trying to keep my medications reasonable. I think one reason shrinks get burned out is that some people (not all patients, but many) are so miserable by the time they get to a shrink that they'll take whatever they can, anything, everything, to blot out their difficult lives. I know I was like that once, years ago.
Thanks again for your helpful post.
Posted by redwood on May 20, 2011, at 7:44:26
In reply to floatingbridge..., posted by Christ_empowered on May 15, 2011, at 18:12:31
These posts parallel my experience so closely. I couldn't believe it when I read them. I've been diagnosed with CPTSD since 2008 and have been looking for answers since then. I have and still do dissociate, and now it almost seems to be an inbuilt mechanism which lets me escape if I am triggered.
I struggle with having a mental illness, find socialising incredibly difficult, hate loud noises and angry voices (they trigger me). I also hate the meds; I'm on 375mg Effexor and 700mg Epilim. I've gone from being a fit, athletic, sociable person with a good job in a health related field to someone who is 2 stone heavier, needs to sleep p.m., really struggles to get motivated and achieve things, and is currently unemployed. My marriage has also failed after 12 years. I have felt desperately alone in dealing with all this, but have been incredibly fortunate in having an excellent clinical psychologist with considerable experience in dealing with trauma. This has made all the difference and has helped me to understand something about this diagnosis.
I wondered if the Tianeptine seems to have helped since I read that it was the first drug of choice for PTSD.I have never been prescribed it, despite asking about it.
Posted by redwood on May 20, 2011, at 7:48:09
In reply to floatingbridge..., posted by Christ_empowered on May 15, 2011, at 18:12:31
These posts parallel my experience so closely. I couldn't believe it when I read them. I've been diagnosed with CPTSD since 2008 and have been looking for answers since then. I have and still do dissociate, and now it almost seems to be an inbuilt mechanism which lets me escape if I am triggered.
I struggle with having a mental illness, find socialising incredibly difficult, hate loud noises and angry voices (they trigger me). I also hate the meds; I'm on 375mg Effexor and 700mg Epilim. I've gone from being a fit, athletic, sociable person with a good job in a health related field to someone who is 2 stone heavier, needs to sleep p.m., really struggles to get motivated and achieve things, and is currently unemployed. My marriage has also failed after 12 years. I have felt desperately alone in dealing with all this, but have been incredibly fortunate in having an excellent clinical psychologist with considerable experience in dealing with trauma. This has made all the difference and has helped me to understand something about this diagnosis.
I wondered if the Tianeptine seems to have helped since I read that it was the first drug of choice for PTSD.I have never been prescribed it, despite asking about it.
Posted by floatingbridge on May 20, 2011, at 9:55:34
In reply to Re: floatingbridge..., posted by redwood on May 20, 2011, at 7:48:09
Are you new here? If so welcome. If not, it's great to meet you. I'm not sure if your post is addressing Christ_Empowered, but here I am. This entire thread has been something wonderfully spontaneous.
Did something happen in 2008 that triggered the cptsd? I'm not asking you to share details. I'm more curious about
onset, esp since you have cptsd.I was always troubled but looked functional though compensated greatly. An emergency c-section is what kicked it all in for me. Then, after surgery, having a baby when my own childhood was so barren and lonely and fraught with fear.
Then I began to remember the rapes as teen and young adult. They were called
date rapes, so I thought they didn't matter--that I needed to just suck it up and grow up.Childbirth focused all that. That and
staring into the clear eyes of my child. I felt contaminated.Isn't there somewhere in the Bible about
a holiness that defiles--next to my son I felt defiled? How could I possibly be a good mom?I'm pleased to report that through therapy and meds I feel worthy of my
son--he needs me and I understand him. I'd do about anything for him. I guess
we all need someone like that in our cornerI wanted to try the med you mentioned stablon is the trade name. Guess you're in the US. Me too.
What symptoms are you treating? I'm not familiar with epilim.
Warmly,
fb
Posted by redwood on May 20, 2011, at 17:36:22
In reply to redwood » redwood, posted by floatingbridge on May 20, 2011, at 9:55:34
Yes, Im new. I have been trying to understand mental illness and what has happened to me by searching the internet, and this site was the best I have found.
Im like you in that I am functional, and I look and mostly behave completely normally BUT it is a huge act and exhausting too. I feel that I am a very different person now, and that is what led to my husband and I separating. The hardest thing is that while depression is widely accepted now, no-one understands this and it is such an isolating experience.
But unlike you, I have no traumatic childhood experiences. Quite the opposite in fact, which is why I have struggled for so long to accept the diagnosis of CPTSD. My initial diagnosis in 2006 was of major depression, possibly with post-partum depression as the trigger. (I dont actually think this was the case, I think it had far more to do with the fact that I was socially isolated with no real support). A series of really stressful events then triggered the CPTSD, including a (not life-threatening) natural disaster.
This does fit with what I have read, as do my symptoms. The main thing I have read about CPTSD is that the illness seems to be significantly worse for people with no social support. My in-laws told me that I was making it all up and all contact has been broken. Friends didnt get it, and so I have found it too difficult to continue socialising. I am withdrawing more and more I feel, although I am trying to resume work. Right now though, it seems to be all I can do to get meals cooked and care for my two children on the days when they are with me.
Re the meds, Epilim is a mood stabiliser, and apparently 700mg daily is a low dose. I was started on it after a drug-induced hypomanic experience on Imipramine. They thought this meant I had bipolar disorder, although this is (I think) no longer the case. It does seem to help me stay more level in mood. The Venlafaxine also seems to have helped, but if I forget to take it I become very agitated and have self-harmed while dissociated. This was terrifying the first time it happened to me. It now seems I have no choice but to stay on the meds until I can get back to work, although I am determined to come off eventually.
I hope this helps you with your experience. Im glad to hear that therapy and meds have helped. I cant speak highly enough of therapy. It has kept me going when things were so black and I was so alone, given some meaning to life, and helped me to be the best mother I can for my children. Like you, they are everything to me.
Thankyou for replying. If I want to find out more about meds, should I also post this under medication? I am unsure about the procedures here.
Posted by Phillipa on May 20, 2011, at 20:02:43
In reply to redwood » redwood, posted by floatingbridge on May 20, 2011, at 9:55:34
I also had date rapes but they didn't bother me figured my fault as had been drinking. I don't think they affected me? I just got married and had kids? Lots of verbal abuse and neglect as a kid but forgave. Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on May 20, 2011, at 20:04:07
In reply to Re: redwood, posted by redwood on May 20, 2011, at 17:36:22
Redwood if want med information post on the medication board and nice to meet you!!! Phillipa
Posted by floatingbridge on May 20, 2011, at 21:34:53
In reply to Re: redwood, posted by redwood on May 20, 2011, at 17:36:22
Redwood,
I wrote you a big long note and scrapped it. Please don't ever underestimate the weight of your experiences or your capacity to heal.
Everyone has a tipping point. I don't feel
we can determine these things ourselves.
I believe that we only have so much influence over life. Some people have the great good fortune of never finding their tipping point. If someone has ptsd or cptsd, it's always justified.You probably read hyperfocus' posts? He has written about how enough social isolation or ostracism on it's own is enough.
You sound like you have major life stressors right now. I hope you find all
the support you need. Big hugs!fb
Posted by floatingbridge on June 8, 2011, at 14:51:33
In reply to Re: redwood, posted by redwood on May 20, 2011, at 17:36:22
Hey Redwood,
It's been good for me.
"No Comfort Zone: notes on living with post traumatic stress disorder"
By Marla Handy
I feel more sane when I read it. No
answers. Just company.warm regards,
fb
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