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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dinah on February 27, 2010, at 12:21:22
While I was reading the article floatingbridge linked, I was thinking about my heroes.
At least two of my top three seemed to have issues with depression, and I think those issues were related to the very things I find admirable about them. Abraham Lincoln and Moses are two of my three favorite heroes. I also find Winston Churchill fascinating, and he definitely had issues with depression.
The third, William Marshal, does not appear to have had any melancholic tendencies. :) I'm not sure why he appeals to me as much as he does.
Self doubt is a wonderful quality in a hero, to my mind.
Posted by Phillipa on February 27, 2010, at 13:35:12
In reply to Who is your hero?, posted by Dinah on February 27, 2010, at 12:21:22
My Son. Phillipa
Posted by Dinah on February 27, 2010, at 16:46:56
In reply to Re: Who is your hero?, posted by Phillipa on February 27, 2010, at 13:35:12
That's a nice thing to be able to say about your son, Phillipa. What qualities do you find heroic in him?
Posted by Phillipa on February 27, 2010, at 21:17:24
In reply to Re: Who is your hero? » Phillipa, posted by Dinah on February 27, 2010, at 16:46:56
Being in the 82nd Airborne first into Iraq during Desert Storm. Losing Eyesight and two finger tips there in explosion. Coming home enduring multiple operations but going to blind rehab at my insistance. Then getting his Summa C*m Laude in Social Work As Government would only allow certain degrees. Now in DC and Started the Veterans Of Modern Warfare to Help those coming home now . Helps them process their claims. Travels around the country now giving lectures to Government. Clearance for all Government To Access Security Files. Living in DC on his own now. That's just some. Phillipa
Posted by sigismund on February 28, 2010, at 6:54:21
In reply to Who is your hero?, posted by Dinah on February 27, 2010, at 12:21:22
I agree. God save us from optimists.
Though I don't know anything about Muhammed Yunus's state of mind. I heard a lecture of his. He started Grameen Bank in Bangladesh giving small loans without security to women to set up businesses. His lecture (whatever it was) was amazing.
http://www.grameen-info.org/Who else do I like? Not so many politicians. It's the Darwinian thing...... survival of the fittest can mean survival of the worst.
What's the Lear theme? Goodness does not prosper and evil destroys itself.
Posted by sdb on February 28, 2010, at 14:41:11
In reply to Re: Who is your hero?, posted by sigismund on February 28, 2010, at 6:54:21
> Who else do I like? Not so many politicians. It's the Darwinian thing...... survival of the fittest can mean survival of the worst.I agree, there might be some truth...
Posted by Dinah on February 28, 2010, at 15:30:31
In reply to Re: Who is your hero?, posted by sigismund on February 28, 2010, at 6:54:21
True enough. I'm not sure the current election process allows for the very qualities I most admire in a politician.
I honestly am not sure Lincoln could get elected nowadays.
But overall, I was thinking in terms of that article. That some of our best leaders were some of our best leaders *because* they suffered from mood disorders. That rumination and introspection allows for doubt, and lack of doubt is not really as good a quality in a leader as one might guess.
Posted by sigismund on March 1, 2010, at 3:18:56
In reply to Re: Who is your hero?, posted by Dinah on February 28, 2010, at 15:30:31
>But overall, I was thinking in terms of that article. That some of our best leaders were some of our best leaders *because* they suffered from mood disorders. That rumination and introspection allows for doubt, and lack of doubt is not really as good a quality in a leader as one might guess.
Absolutely.
Think of all the suffering that those without doubt have brought into the world.Churchill had a pretty mixed career.
The up moments (mood wise) may have included the Dardenelles campaign.
Perhaps he understood Hitler better because he knew depression? I believe so.There is an interesting anecdote about Guy Burgess visiting Churchill and finding him depressed and saying that it was essential that he not resign (or whatever it was).
Posted by sigismund on March 1, 2010, at 3:52:46
In reply to Re: Who is your hero?, posted by Dinah on February 28, 2010, at 15:30:31
Consider the instructions given to Arthur Phillip, first governor of the penal colony of NSW.......
To take possession of the east coast of the continent and to make peace with the native inhabitants
or something like that.
That was optimistic.
He was a good man too.
Posted by sigismund on March 1, 2010, at 20:54:33
In reply to Re: Who is your hero?, posted by sigismund on March 1, 2010, at 3:52:46
You'd need to ruminate a great deal to understand Hitler.
Posted by Dinah on March 1, 2010, at 23:18:32
In reply to Re: Who is your hero?, posted by sigismund on March 1, 2010, at 20:54:33
I used to think so.
But I've grown to the sad conclusion over time that it's really not so hard to understand. He tapped into the fear and rage of his time. He's not the first and I doubt he'll be the last. Hopefully it will never be on that vast scale ever again.
It makes me very melancholy to recognize that as civilized as we are, as civilized as people were in the early twentieth century, civilization can be a thin veneer where people are afraid.
Posted by 64Bowtie on March 5, 2010, at 2:36:18
In reply to Re: Who is your hero?, posted by Dinah on February 28, 2010, at 15:30:31
You said: <<<That rumination and introspection allows for doubt, and LACK of DOUBT is not really as good a quality in a leader as one might guess.
I ask: >>>You mean like a sociopath, I.E. G. Gordon Liddy??? Liddy single handedly provided the vehicle for Nixon's demise, has never apologised and is still competing with Rush Limbaugh for conservstive attention in Florida's political-circus radio market... 37 years later I still wonder why he hasn't ever got his "ticket punched"...... He is a convenient archtypical example of an unfeeling/uncareing sociopath, who also lacks doubt in himself, only in his case, resembling arrogance instead of full blown pathology...
Rod
Posted by Dinah on March 5, 2010, at 9:18:38
In reply to (((Dinah))) Who is your hero?, posted by 64Bowtie on March 5, 2010, at 2:36:18
Well, I'd really prefer not to name names. :)
At any rate, most politicians nowadays seem to suffer from a severe lack of rumination and self doubt. It's only when people are willing to acknowledge that they may be wrong, that even there is a good chance they are frequently wrong, that they are willing to listen to good ideas that others who have different beliefs may have.
I think the current election process may discourage those with a lot of self doubt.
But I suppose if we keep making this too political, it may get moved to Politics.
Oddly enough, while Moses and Lincoln are two of my top three heroes and are great examples of the benefits of the same sort of personal qualities that can contribute to depression, one of my favorite leadership styles is that of Captain Kirk. He didn't at all seem to have those qualities. (Except of course when he was split in the transporter to his "good" and "evil" sides.)
Posted by sigismund on March 5, 2010, at 20:57:14
In reply to (((Dinah))) Who is your hero?, posted by 64Bowtie on March 5, 2010, at 2:36:18
>He is a convenient archtypical example of an unfeeling/uncareing sociopath, who also lacks doubt in himself, only in his case, resembling arrogance instead of full blown pathology...
I read an extract in harpers which was taken from abook written by one of his aides. He reminded me of the governor of an Australian colony in the 1850s, or at least what I imagined that mindset to be. I wish I could remember it word perfectContext is important. When Rupert dies the Murdoch children will either sell Fox to pocket the cash and avoid the shame or they will change it.
Posted by floatingbridge on March 14, 2010, at 13:53:41
In reply to Re: Who is your hero? » Dinah, posted by Phillipa on February 27, 2010, at 21:17:24
Wow Phillipa, wow. Your son sounds very strong indeed. I'm sorry he had to suffer so much, not that that seems to have stopped him any.
I love that you named him your hero.
Posted by floatingbridge on March 14, 2010, at 14:11:17
In reply to Who is your hero?, posted by Dinah on February 27, 2010, at 12:21:22
O.K. Late to thread.
Ummm. Garcia Lorca. Singing while beaten to death in a stadium by fascist regime.
The pilot who napalmed the Vietnamese girl (we all know the picture) and the girl herself, who is now a woman and peace activist. They are friends.
The Dalai Lama, who once, when asked how does one get over something they've done that they regret said, "I don't."
Dinah, didn't you write something about radical acceptance? What does that mean to you?Last night listening to Avo Part's "Fratres", in a church no less, thought how do such awful things happen to people we really don't deserve it any of us. The music usually just tears me apart, but last night, I felt it open me. Thinking again, in the most agnostic sense, that that is the mystery, or rather, is part of the mystery, and maybe.... There was the briefest glimmer of what?
Oh well, enough. Many heros in the world, the grand majority unknown or lying in unmarked graves.
Cheers!
This is the end of the thread.
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