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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Deneb on July 22, 2009, at 20:07:40
Ugh! I just wrote a long post about what it is like to be Asian and have all these academic expectations, but I accidentally deleted it!
Anyways, in short, I am extremely unsuccessful. I wish I were like Dr. Bob or my sister who is doing a Masters in biochemistry on her way to her Ph.D.
I used to have potential. I used to be considered smart and university was a given for me, but look at me now.
I wish I could be reincarnated and start over again.
My self worth is tied into my academic achievements or lack thereof.
Posted by Phillipa on July 22, 2009, at 20:21:38
In reply to Being Asian and academic pressures, posted by Deneb on July 22, 2009, at 20:07:40
Deneb easier said than done but you are number one reguardless of academic achievements. And know you're brillient. Phillipa
Posted by Dinah on July 22, 2009, at 20:35:45
In reply to Being Asian and academic pressures, posted by Deneb on July 22, 2009, at 20:07:40
> My self worth is tied into my academic achievements or lack thereof.
What do you think of that? I know it's hard to put away the accumulated pressures and emotionally charged expectations. But the first part of understanding something on a gut level is to understand it on a brain level.
My grandparents didn't graduate high school, but they were immensely worthy of admiration. My father was the first in *his* family to graduate college. But he didn't consider himself any better than his relatives who didn't. My brother didn't go to college. He works way harder than I do, for less money, but I don't see anything unworthy of respect in that. I generally feel rather guilty that I don't work as hard and do make more money.
I think in our family a college education was the expected course, and it was probably hard for my brother. But it was the expected course because it was seen as a way to prepare to make a living. There was no inherent better or worse in going to college. It was a career path, pure and simple. It's not the only career path, or even the most lucrative career path. I have one cousin who worked his way up in maintenance who makes more than my cousin who went to graduate school to be a therapist. I don't respect either of them more than the other. They were both honorable good people, which to me is worth far more than any other mark of success.
You're Deneb. You have an Asian heritage, you are a Canadian citizen, you are a member of the more immediate cultural community of your neighborhood and the even more immediate community of your parents. All of those things shape you, as they shape all of us. But first and foremost you are Deneb. You have mankind's most important heritage of having the free will to decide your own future and your own path.
What does Deneb want for Deneb?
Posted by HyperFocus on July 22, 2009, at 20:59:31
In reply to Being Asian and academic pressures, posted by Deneb on July 22, 2009, at 20:07:40
Being successful is not tied into what degrees you have. It is about how you live your life and treat others.
Some people who are doctors, lawyers, politicians, are literally the scum of the earth.
One relative of mine is a doctor, a radiological specialist, and owns several houses. He barely visited his mother in hospital when she was dying. When she was suffering terrible pains in her shoulder we asked him about doing x-rays. He replied - no need for that now. I'd rather work as a laborer somewhere than go to med school and have a heart like that
Having a good heart is worth more than all the degrees in the world. You are smart and have a good heart and you will accomplish many things in your life, a degree being just one of them. When you're older and have your degree or two or three you're gonna wonder why you thought it was such a big deal. You are young now, the whole world with all its possibilities is open to you.
Posted by Deneb on July 22, 2009, at 20:59:47
In reply to Re: Being Deneb, posted by Dinah on July 22, 2009, at 20:35:45
I don't think other people are less worthy of respect if they have not gone to university. I think it only applies to me.
I like your way of thinking. I wish I could apply it to myself. Uni is a career choice. I have no direction in life though. I've lost confidence in myself.
I don't know if most people share your thinking or not. I hope they do, but I suspect not.
You have to be successful in life for most people to give a darn about you.
What do I want? I think I just want to live a relatively stress free life. I guess with higher status jobs comes more responsibility. I think I'd be OK with a job that lets me save some money, but I wish I could be the type of person who could handle large amounts of stress and responsibility.
Posted by Deneb on July 22, 2009, at 21:10:52
In reply to Re: Being Asian and academic pressures » Deneb, posted by HyperFocus on July 22, 2009, at 20:59:31
I wish I could have it all though. Not all doctors have no heart.
I hope you're right about the future. I hope I end up thinking this was no big deal after all.
I just wonder if maybe I am just too stupid for university. Logically I know I should be able to get a degree, but uni is hard. It takes not just smarts but discipline. I have the discipline of a 5 year old at times.
I need to grow up and do things even if I don't want to do them at a particular moment. I need to stop procrastinating.
Posted by HyperFocus on July 22, 2009, at 21:26:30
In reply to Re: Being Asian and academic pressures » HyperFocus, posted by Deneb on July 22, 2009, at 21:10:52
If you find yourself procrastinating way too much it's possible you may be sabotaging yourself. Maybe there are things you need to work through - with therapy and meds - before you go back to school. I have self-destructive tendencies. A lot of times I will just not study even though I'm quite capable. I keep telling myself that it's too hard and I don't like it and I'm really not that smart. I keep thinking well I'll study tomorrow or I'll have enough time to do that paper this weekend, when clearly I will not.
Well it's not going to be easy if you have mental blocks in your way. But you are smart enough to get your Ph.D - I have no doubt about that. So what if it a takes a few more years than your sister?
Posted by Deneb on July 22, 2009, at 21:35:29
In reply to Re: Being Asian and academic pressures, posted by HyperFocus on July 22, 2009, at 21:26:30
The thing with getting a Ph.D, going to medical school, etc. is that it is a lot of hard work.
I think I am lazier than most people. It also takes a lot of discipline. My sister works tremendously hard. I'm not sure I could handle that. I think I'd rather settle for a job that lets me save some money. Maybe I am just afraid of the unknown. I'm kind of stuck right now. Maybe in some ways I don't want to graduate and head out into the scary world outside.
Posted by Phillipa on July 22, 2009, at 22:24:41
In reply to Sabotaging myself, posted by Deneb on July 22, 2009, at 21:35:29
Deneb not being mean another way of looking at it. At Age 27 had three kids, and a tubal ligation and was about to go through a divorce. Then came school. I just lived my life in reverse. Phillipa
Posted by HyperFocus on July 22, 2009, at 22:24:46
In reply to Sabotaging myself, posted by Deneb on July 22, 2009, at 21:35:29
Telling yourself you are lazy or feeling you are lazy or sometimes acting like you are lazy are completely separate things from actually being lazy. It sounds as if you do have dreams about what you want to do with life. But maybe your biggest problem is not that you are not smart enough or disciplined enough, but that you don't believe in yourself enough. Self-sabotage is an insidious thing. Also continuously negatively comparing yourself to other people is bad.Have you talked to T about stuff like this? Like what I posted before, you are doing yourself a disservice comparing your life to other people and thinking they are better than you
Maybe you should talk more about what you reall dream about doing and what's stopping you. If you have dreams of going to med school why give it up? It's not going to be easy overcoming your problems - believe me I know - but there is an answer, no matter how big the problem.
Posted by Dinah on July 22, 2009, at 23:30:07
In reply to Sabotaging myself, posted by Deneb on July 22, 2009, at 21:35:29
> I think I am lazier than most people. It also takes a lot of discipline.
> What do I want? I think I just want to live a relatively stress free life. I guess with higher status jobs comes more responsibility. I think I'd be OK with a job that lets me save some money, but I wish I could be the type of person who could handle large amounts of stress and responsibility.
Deneb, I think you know yourself. What's wrong with not wanting a large amount of stress and responsibility? Some people thrive on it, others don't. Someone in my high school once got really annoyed with me for my lack of ambition. He wanted to go to med school and didn't think he'd get the grades. I got the grades, but I had less than no desire for stress or responsibility. My husband and I both chose not to go to graduate school, because it just wasn't what we wanted in life. I suspect our son will also choose lack of stress and low responsibility - whatever that may look like to him. And as long as he can make a living in the style to which he wishes to become accustomed, why not?
Most people, as they look back on their life, think about their relationships. The people they loved, the good they did. You're looking at it from the other end of the telescope, where education is the focus of your life. I know, it was mine too.
> You have to be successful in life for most people to give a darn about you.
People don't give a darn about anyone just because they are well educated or rich. Well, salespeople maybe. But for the people that matter, that is just not the defining factor. It's a good idea to decide to do something that will earn you enough to live a reasonably good life, according to your own definitions of what that means. And if you enjoy the challenge of academic life, or a career in science, that's great. Money and education may bring status, but they don't bring caring. What usually causes people to give a darn about you is to give a darn about people. I remember the lunchroom attendant at my elementary school who remembered my milk preferences and greeted me personally with a smile with far more caring than I remember some of my teachers. I certainly gave more of a darn about her than them.
There are different kinds of success and different kinds of caring. They aren't mutually exclusive. People can be rich and successful and caring and kind and thoughtful. But every person needs to decide what "success" means to them. I hope that you grow to define it in terms of what really matters in life.
I'm not saying that you shouldn't get your degree and go on to do whatever it is you want to do in life. I just hope that if you do, it's because it's what you want for yourself. Not what you think you're expected to do or because you think you need to do it to be special or cared about.
At the risk of sounding religious, you are a child of God. Or if you wish to put it secularly, you are a person who is born with immense worth. You are special right now. People give a darn about you right now. It's wonderful to fulfill your potential. But it is *your* potential. Not a cookie cutter template that you must conform to to be worthwhile.
Posted by Deneb on July 23, 2009, at 0:07:30
In reply to Re: Sabotaging myself » Deneb, posted by Dinah on July 22, 2009, at 23:30:07
> Deneb, I think you know yourself. What's wrong with not wanting a large amount of stress and responsibility? Some people thrive on it, others don't. Someone in my high school once got really annoyed with me for my lack of ambition. He wanted to go to med school and didn't think he'd get the grades. I got the grades, but I had less than no desire for stress or responsibility. My husband and I both chose not to go to graduate school, because it just wasn't what we wanted in life. I suspect our son will also choose lack of stress and low responsibility - whatever that may look like to him. And as long as he can make a living in the style to which he wishes to become accustomed, why not?
You have a good point there. I look at my sister studying all the time with little sleep and I don't think I'd like a life like that, I like sleep too much LOL. I'm not super smart so I'd have to study very hard. My sister is smart, but she, like me, is not a genius. She needs to study. I think I would love it if I had the motivation and ambition to get that high paying high status job, but I don't. I just hope others don't judge me for that. From you've written though, it seems that the people worth being friends with wouldn't hold that against me.
>
> Most people, as they look back on their life, think about their relationships. The people they loved, the good they did. You're looking at it from the other end of the telescope, where education is the focus of your life. I know, it was mine too.I think for me, since I am not very good at relationships, I used take pride in my academic achievements. Now I realize I'm really not that smart nor self motivated.
I think I really like what I'm studying when I do well in it. I start losing interest if I don't understand it. I think I am able to understand organic chem, with the right teacher. I'm doing it for myself, I'm pretty sure.
>
> At the risk of sounding religious, you are a child of God. Or if you wish to put it secularly, you are a person who is born with immense worth. You are special right now. People give a darn about you right now. It's wonderful to fulfill your potential. But it is *your* potential. Not a cookie cutter template that you must conform to to be worthwhile.Thanks Dinah (((((Dinah))))) Everyone is special. No cookie cutter life for me. :-)
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