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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Cass on March 20, 2009, at 20:50:01
I'm in an outpatient treatment program for depression and grief right now. Overall, I'm getting a lot out of it. I feel more open, less depressed and more supported. But there is an issue that's bothering me. We have a lot of group therapy, and there are a couple ladies in the group who interrupt A LOT when I'm speaking and when others are speaking. They ask questions, give unsolicited advice and make supportive comments, but, in my opinion, even saying something supportive is impolite if you're interrupting the person speaking. The way I've dealt with this is to mostly ignore the ladies interrupting me and to just keep on speaking. I usually have to speak louder to be heard, and just power on. Nevertheless, it's still distracting to be interrupted. Also, they are so forward about giving their opinions. I'm truly not there to hear their opinions, especially since they seem really screwed up. I often disagree with what they are saying or else what they are saying is beside the point. I am there to gain clarification about my own feelings and needs and to learn better coping skills. I feel that there's a certain level of arrogance in someone interrupting someone me the middle of my talk to give their opinion when I didn't ask their opinion. When other share, I try to listen respectfully and not to interrupt. It's "Do unto others..." And if I have a supportive comment, I wait until they are done sharing. As for my opinion of their situation, I don't feel my opinion is important, it is THEIR opinion that is important because it is their life. If I really wanted to add my opinion, I might say, "Would you like my opinion?" But I wouldn't assume that they wanted it. I feel that this is common sense. I wish the ladies could give me the same respect. The problem doesn't happen as often in groups led by counselors who are more structured, but it happens a lot in one counselor's group. Ultimately, I feel it is the fault of the facilitator. She should be controlling the group better. She facilitates quite a few groups throughout the day. As a matter of fact, I find that she interrupts people a lot herself, and then there are times when someone will finish speaking and she'll ask everyone their opinion of it. It just seems so unproductive, like a codependent feeding frenzy. There are counselors there who are excellent and have better control over the group, but it's just the luck of the draw. So I AM asking your opinion. What would you do in this situation?
Posted by obsidian on March 20, 2009, at 21:41:29
In reply to Facilitation, posted by Cass on March 20, 2009, at 20:50:01
is she like a "what is the silence saying?" kind of person or is she just filling the silence?
-sid
Posted by Cass on March 20, 2009, at 21:54:36
In reply to Re: Facilitation » Cass, posted by obsidian on March 20, 2009, at 21:41:29
I think she's filling the silence. She also starts to ramble sometimes waaaay off topic. I find myself looking back at what she said, and thinking, "that was completely pointless."
Posted by obsidian on March 20, 2009, at 22:03:13
In reply to Re: Facilitation » obsidian, posted by Cass on March 20, 2009, at 21:54:36
is she smoothing some sort of anxiety in herself? is she uncomfortable with what's expressed?
I'm sorry for the questions, I'm just trying to get a picture.
Posted by Cass on March 20, 2009, at 22:15:54
In reply to Re: Facilitation » Cass, posted by obsidian on March 20, 2009, at 22:03:13
I'm not sure if she's got anxiety. She has a tough, street-wise air to her. My sense is that in the past, she was pretty wild, taking too many drugs and alcohol. She's also an addiction counselor. There is no sense of calmness about her. Maybe deep down she knows she isn't as skilled as she should be, so she just talks to fill time. I hate to reem her too much because she is probably well-intentioned and soft at heart, but she's just so ineffective. I always feel that time with her is wasted.
Posted by obsidian on March 20, 2009, at 22:45:41
In reply to Re: Facilitation » obsidian, posted by Cass on March 20, 2009, at 22:15:54
if you're willing to describe it I am really interested in what is helpful about groups and/or group leaders
I have been considering joining a group for a while now, and I am curious.
if not, it's ok
thanks,
sid
Posted by Cass on March 20, 2009, at 23:14:38
In reply to Re: Facilitation » Cass, posted by obsidian on March 20, 2009, at 22:45:41
I'm new to group therapy. It's pretty simple. I like the facilitators who are focused and calm and who do most of the responding (counseling) themselves rather than letting the other group members go crazy with their comments. The counselors do a good job of interpreting your underlying issues and feelings and give some input on how to deal with things. As for the group itself, I love the understanding and support. Sometimes I'll risk saying something, and it'll turn out that the group members understand so completely. It's wonderful, and they can be so supportive and encouraging.
Posted by Phillipa on March 21, 2009, at 0:10:37
In reply to Re: Facilitation » obsidian, posted by Cass on March 20, 2009, at 23:14:38
Cass you really sound good. The group theraphy is something I'd also like to do. Sharing is important. Love Phillipa
Posted by BayLeaf on March 21, 2009, at 11:38:30
In reply to Facilitation, posted by Cass on March 20, 2009, at 20:50:01
I would talk to the facilitator privately after group and express your feelings about your peers interrupting. I'd mention that is seems to happen less in other groups, and that is more comfortable for you. Could she possibly try to intervene? :-) Usually group leaders like consructive feedback. If she doesn't take it well, or doesn't implement any change, I would talk to her supervisor. She just needs to learn a new skill.
She sounds like she may be in recovery herself, and she is supposed to be working on self-improvement all the time. Hopefully, she will take this as just such an opportunity.
Bay
Posted by BayLeaf on March 21, 2009, at 11:39:29
In reply to Facilitation, posted by Cass on March 20, 2009, at 20:50:01
Posted by SLS on March 21, 2009, at 11:51:52
In reply to Re: Facilitation » Cass, posted by BayLeaf on March 21, 2009, at 11:38:30
Hi Cass.
I have run into the same problem myself. Eventually, through practice, I learned to deal with the issue in a way that felt right to me. I felt safe enough to be assertive. I would say quite simply in a voice loud enough to be heard, "Excuse me, I have not finished speaking." Eventually, I earned enough respect through asserting my boundaries, that interruptions of me were less frequent.
I really like the idea of talking to the facilitator in private.
- Scott
Posted by Kath on March 21, 2009, at 15:32:33
In reply to Facilitation, posted by Cass on March 20, 2009, at 20:50:01
> So I AM asking your opinion. What would you do in this situation?
"LOL - you are so UNcodependent it makes me smile beamingly!!!!! WOW!!! (said from someone who went to CoDependentsAnonymous for 4 years).
There was a strict rule there "NO Crosstalk". No comments, interruptions, etc. The person took their turn sharing, then the next person did etc.
In the groups where it's a problem, I think that I would say, before I shared, something like this: "In order to feel safe sharing, I need to know that I will not be interrupted. I also want to let people know that the thing that's most helpful for me is to speak my truth & sometimes as it comes out, it enlightens me & helps me to understand myself better. In order to absorb this, I need to not have comments after I speak unless I ask for them. I know there are folks here with some very good ideas, comments & suggestions. So if I feel that I need input, I will certainly ask for it. I really appreciate everyone's cooperation in this case. We're all different & I'm not suggesting this would work for everyone. At the same time, I do know that it's what works best for me."
The other thing that you could do would be to speak to a facilitator whose style you DO like & discuss the problem with the facilitator who interrupts, etc. That might be a little touchy. I might try the above first. Obviously you could tailor it to your comfort level & what you need.
love, Kath
PS - I work with someone who gives unsolicited advice ALL the time. I've started to say to her, when she's told me about something...... "Would you like any feedback?" The first time I did it, she replied, "Of course I would! I just told you about it, didn't I?" Which made me realize that for HER - to TELL about something is to ASK for advice!!! Yikes.
Posted by Kath on March 21, 2009, at 15:44:54
In reply to Re: Facilitation » Cass, posted by obsidian on March 20, 2009, at 22:45:41
We sit in a circle. We can ask the leader ahead of time for 'work' - as in "I'd like work today".
So for ex, she'll say, "So Kath asked for work today."
Then I talk - pretend I say "I am really angry at --- but am afraid to tell them."
She knows I am willing & able to go really DEEP, so she'll sometimes tell me to close my eyes & imagine things, etc. One time regarding anger, she said close my eyes & feel where the anger was in my body. It went on & the anger eventually turned into a huge volcanoe. It was a very good session. When she finally said open my eyes, she pointed out that I had touched this huge, very powerful anger & I was still alive & safe & sitting here in the circle.
There might be more talking or not.
THEN, she asks everyone - "Is there anyone who can relate?" One by one, people will tell how they relate in THEIR life. They are not allowed to give advice & I am not allowed to comment. She says that doing group therapy in this way - everyone can benefit from everybody else's 'work'.I find it feels really safe for me because I know that nobody will be giving me advice or talking AT me. They might say, "Kath, I can really relate, because I was always afraid to tell my Mom such & such."
When everyone has spoken who wants to, we go on to the next person's 'work'.
The leader is tremendously skilled. And the structure makes it very safe for me. It also prevents people from going on & on. There are a couple of people who tend towards that, but the leader will nudge them back on track with "So Adam, how do you relate to what Kath was saying? In your life?"
Hope this helps sid. Feel free to ask me more if ya like.
luv, Kath
Posted by Cass on March 21, 2009, at 19:06:59
In reply to Re: Facilitation » Cass, posted by Kath on March 21, 2009, at 15:32:33
>>Which made me realize that for HER - to TELL about something
>>is to ASK for advice!!! Yikes.Thanks, Kath. Your post is really interesting. In the past, I've also come to the realization that some people can misinterpret. I'll talk about an issue in my life, and they assume I'm doing it to get their opinion, when in reality, I was not asking their advice at all. They simply interpret it that way. That can be a frustrating issue when you're getting to know someone because you can't know if they are one of those people who assumes you're asking for advice or not. I guess I just need to state it right up front.
One of the group members who interrupts me a lot is really, really co-dependent from what I can tell. She's always saying how she "cares too much" and wants to fix other people's problems. I can tell she thinks highly of this quality. But to me, I see that she is interrupting me and giving me unsolicited advice, basically being rude. The way I see it, her behavior seems very disrespectful, but she thinks she's being caring. I get the feeling she would devour me if I let her. So I'm giving myself credit for not letting her. And when a counselor asks her direct questions about her feelings, she's all over the place. It's like she simply cannot give a direct answer. She starts talking about other people and situations. The counselor has to be very persistent and still doesn't get an answer out of her.
Posted by Cass on March 21, 2009, at 19:14:47
In reply to Re: Facilitation » Cass, posted by BayLeaf on March 21, 2009, at 11:38:30
Thanks, Bay. It's always nice to hear from you. I think it would be beneficial for this facilitator to know that it happens less in other people's groups.
Posted by Kath on March 21, 2009, at 19:29:19
In reply to Re: Facilitation » Kath, posted by Cass on March 21, 2009, at 19:06:59
> I guess I just need to state it right up front.
~ ~ ~ Yes - I think that is the VERY best way. And it can be done in a way of acknowledging that if you want some advice or 'input', you'll ask them because you (whatever- respect their thoughts; - whatever is true for you.)
> One of the group members who interrupts me a lot is really, really co-dependent from what I can tell. She's always saying how she "cares too much" and wants to fix other people's problems. I can tell she thinks highly of this quality.
~ ~ ~ Yup - if she were even beginning to heal from codependency (from my knowledge anyhow & in my opinion) she'd be seeing her 'caring too much' and 'wanting to fix other people's problems' as things to change & overcome.
> But to me, I see that she is interrupting me and giving me unsolicited advice, basically being rude. The way I see it, her behavior seems very disrespectful, but she thinks she's being caring.
~ ~ ~ Don't know if you want input about that!? My therapist recently helped me learn to acknowledge other people's strengths or their thoughts about themselves. In my friend's case, I have said to her that she has some really good ideas. In that lady's case, an acknowledgement of the fact that she is caring might be the one to pinpoint...I guess caring & wanting to fix others, since she is pleased about them. If you ever want any input about how to word things, I am certainly here for you about that!! (Years ago, I would have bombarded you with my ideas...I would have felt sort of frantic for you to accept my suggestions! Baby, I've come a long way!! LOL Although I think I am still pushy about certain 'alternative' methods that have helped me alot.)
>I get the feeling she would devour me if I let her. So I'm giving myself credit for not letting her.
~ ~ You deserve credit! I know, because I used to be just like her! - well similar anyway.
>And when a counselor asks her direct questions about her feelings, she's all over the place. It's like she simply cannot give a direct answer. She starts talking about other people and situations. The counselor has to be very persistent and still doesn't get an answer out of her.
~ ~ ~ I was like that also. If someone asked me "how are you doing?" I'd tell them exactly what was happening in my life (particularly with my son)... My 32 yr old daughter & I finally had a really good conversation about it. it was driving her crazy. We discovered that if I was upset & was asked how I was doing - I didn't KNOW. I would tell exactly what was happening, somehow thinking that if I told someone what was happening they would KNOW how I felt!!!!!!!!!! This was a huge revelation for me.
How wonderful it would be for that woman to go to CoDA meetings...but as you say - she doesn't even know there's anything amiss.
You sound way better than you did not long ago Cass. I'm sorry parts of the experience are really trying!!
I'm interested to know what happens if you feel like telling it.
luv, Kath
Posted by Cass on March 21, 2009, at 22:01:10
In reply to CoDependency » Cass, posted by Kath on March 21, 2009, at 19:29:19
Yep, I'll probably write more about it next week. I feel pretty confident that I'll get the situation under control. I'm almost looking forward to it. I appreciate your support. When my husband passed away, I took such an emotional plunge backwards. I do feel like I'm slowly getting back on my feet psychologically. The grief I feel for my husband triggered grief from my childhood and all sorts of other grief. I crashed. It feels good to feel at least a little bit steady again. Saturday nights are the very worst for me, and I'm doing extremely well tonight compared to past Saturday nights. Thank goodness!!
Posted by Kath on March 22, 2009, at 10:56:54
In reply to Re: CoDependency, posted by Cass on March 21, 2009, at 22:01:10
Hi Cass,
You sound so very much better.
That must have been awful to have not only the huge grief about your dear husband, but all those other griefs piled on top.
Reminds me a lot of not too long ago, as a result of reading a 'print-out' from my Group Therapist, I was 'feeling' my feelings right when they happened....identifying them with a word like "Oh, this is anger." or "ok - this is sadness".
When I was first doing it, I'd experience the feeling & usually within a minute, it would dissolve.
But then, with the sadness, it became HUGE & as you described, was not only the current thing, but ALL those other things from various times in my life. I 'took it to' Group Therapy & the therapist helped me immensely to break it down from one enormous boulder of sadness, to small sadness stones! She is so very skilled. She did a visualization with me on it. I suspect I already described it either here or on Psychology board. If you want to hear it, just ask. However, it sounds like you're really benefitting from the work you're doing.I send my love, Kath
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