![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 25. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Guy on June 23, 2007, at 12:20:52
I don't mean to scare people, but what if the predictions of the IPCC (the UN's 2500 climate scientists) and of world-famous scientists such as NASA's James Hansen come true? Acoording to these experts, we are right on track for the worst case scenario...perhaps a lot sooner than we think. We're talking drought, flooding, famine, wars, millions of environmental refugees, and many other horrors caused by cataclysmic forces of nature. Where will we get our meds?
Posted by Phillipa on June 23, 2007, at 12:20:52
In reply to What if?, posted by Guy on June 23, 2007, at 10:59:59
You won't and if it happens I don't think we'll need them stockpile them? Love Phillipa
Posted by becksFLA on June 23, 2007, at 12:20:52
In reply to Re: What if? » Guy, posted by Phillipa on June 23, 2007, at 11:06:54
YEah, if something like that were to happen in our lifetime, which it's not, consider the amount of people in this world on medication of ALL types. They would make proper precautions. Again though, not in our lifetime.
Posted by Guy on June 23, 2007, at 12:20:52
In reply to What if?, posted by Guy on June 23, 2007, at 10:59:59
I wouldn't speak too soon. James Hansen is perhaps the most respected climate scientist on the planet. He does his own research and is not afraid to speak his mind. He first stood up before the US Senate committee in the 80's and warned of the dangers of climate change. The Bush administration has tried to muzzle him on several occasions. Here is an article about his recent research. If sea levels rise by several meters by the end of the century, just think what will happen to the climate before then. (After 2 degrees above pre-industrial levels we enter a phase called "run-away global warming.")
Scientists warn of 'imminent peril' from climate change - Tue Jun 19, 2:20 PM ET
A group of US scientists have reportedly warned that a UN panel on climate change underestimated the scale of sea-level increases this century resulting from global warming.
The six scientists cautioned that the Earth is in "imminent peril" in a 29-page article published in the July 15 issue of the "Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society A," The Independent reported.
"Recent greenhouse gas emissions place the Earth perilously close to dramatic climate change that could run out of control, with great dangers for humans and other creatures," wrote the group led by James Hansen, the director of NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies.
They predict in their paper, "Climate change and trace gases" that sea levels may rise by several metres by 2100, according to The Independent.
That compares to a forecast from the UN Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change published in a February report that predicts sea levels increasing between 18 and 59 centimetres.
The other scientists involved in the paper were Makiko Sato, Pushker Kharecha and Gary Russell, also of the Goddard Institute, David Lea of the University of California at Santa Barbara and Mark Siddall of the Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory at Columbia University in New York.
Posted by Phillipa on June 23, 2007, at 14:00:09
In reply to Don't be so sure., posted by Guy on June 23, 2007, at 12:20:52
Not trying to be funny but with the Tsusami and recent floodings all over even here in the states Australia too could be sooner. What about Katrina? And it truly would be a horror story as people are on heart meds, blood pressure, cancer, thyroid, besides psych meds. Any ideas? Love Phillipa
Posted by fayeroe on June 23, 2007, at 14:51:05
In reply to Re: Don't be so sure. » Guy, posted by Phillipa on June 23, 2007, at 14:00:09
i agree with Phillipa......what did the people do for meds when the hurricanes hit? did the U.S. government do fly-overs dropping meds? well, the President flew over in his private jet....maybe he meant to drop the medicine and forgot.......
we're alot close to this than you think. look at all of the warnings we're getting. a village in Alaska that has the ice beneath melting away and they have to move 600 miles away? that's in MY lifetime and i bet i'm older than you.....i NEVER< EVER thought i would see that.
the polar bears are drowning and starving. the temperatures in the U.S. have risen sigificantly. we hardly had a winter where i live.
look around you, read and keep up with the news. it's dire stuff........
Posted by Guy on June 23, 2007, at 15:29:25
In reply to What if?, posted by Guy on June 23, 2007, at 12:20:52
I've been following this issue closely, and it would appear that our only hope is to avoid the 2 degree threshold. That's when the really serious sh*t starts to happen, like the melting of the permafrost, the collapse of tropical rainforests and many other positive feedback loops. Unfortunately, the village idiot is in charge of the White House and the boneheads here in Canada aren't much better. Then there's China, now the world's largest producer of greenhouse gasses, followed closely by the USA. Emissions are soaring when they should be dropping dramatically. I'd say there's less than a 1% chance that we can avoid catastrophic climate change. I work in the school system and I feel so sorry for the kids.
Posted by Sigismund on June 23, 2007, at 15:35:17
In reply to Re: Don't be so sure. » Phillipa, posted by fayeroe on June 23, 2007, at 14:51:05
the earth's human population is increasing from 6 to 12 billion (where it is expected to stabilize in 2050 or so).
The changes in agricultural technologies that have made this possible have used up just about all the spare capacity, without further illeffect (forests etc).
(Let's leave land degradation out of it.)
And we have the leadership we do.
Cheerful stuff.
Posted by Guy on June 23, 2007, at 15:38:02
In reply to What if?, posted by Guy on June 23, 2007, at 12:20:52
For more info on this frightening issue, go to monbiot.com George Monbiot is without doubt one of the most brilliant people alive today. He has a piercing intelligence and is incredibly articulate. There's also good information at marklynas.org Be sure to follow the links.
Posted by Sigismund on June 23, 2007, at 15:42:43
In reply to For more info, posted by Guy on June 23, 2007, at 15:38:02
When a reporter here mentioned The Guardian, Mr Howard was so angry his mask slipped for a bit.
Our leaders are surprisingly (to me) well informed.
I assume they are making all the money they can in advance of the nasty stuff.
Posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on June 23, 2007, at 23:05:28
In reply to What if?, posted by Guy on June 23, 2007, at 12:20:52
> I don't mean to scare people, but what if the predictions of the IPCC (the UN's 2500 climate scientists) and of world-famous scientists such as NASA's James Hansen come true? Acoording to these experts, we are right on track for the worst case scenario...perhaps a lot sooner than we think. We're talking drought, flooding, famine, wars, millions of environmental refugees, and many other horrors caused by cataclysmic forces of nature. Where will we get our meds?
Voters keep electing politicians who could care a less about the environment, you, me...they tend to only like rich people, and if you got oil. So, yeah I say a certain percentage of voters are f*cking stupid and responsible for this.(Note to the PBC Police, I didn't single out any particular person.)
Jay "Time, if nothing else, will do it's worst.."
Posted by Sigismund on June 24, 2007, at 1:15:43
In reply to Voters are responsible for this...ALL » Guy, posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on June 23, 2007, at 23:05:28
That's right, Jay, the voters vote them in.
Here the richer voters often vote greenish, but it doesn't make a lot of difference.
The aspirational classes (as they are called these days.....they seem to have taken on the role of the petit bourgeoisie) are solidly probusiness.
Sections of the Liberal Party (they're the conservatives) here takes lessons from the right wing of the Republican Party and appeal to the more vengeful and self-righteous qualities in our voting population.
Posted by Nathan_Arizona on June 24, 2007, at 7:59:08
In reply to Voters are responsible for this...ALL » Guy, posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on June 23, 2007, at 23:05:28
I don't think voters are stupid, I just think all politcs are local. If times are good, they stay the course, if times are bad, they vote everyone out. Right or wrong, that's the way I see it.
It's hard to convince someone that a global climate change is going to have an impact on their lives, especially if the change is gradual and not likely to occur in their lifetimes.
Besides people have always been predicting catastrophic environmental events (remember the ozone layer - do we even care about that anymore?)
In my mind, voters are just human.
But, having said that, I wish Al Gore would run for president.
Posted by Guy on June 24, 2007, at 10:27:09
In reply to What if?, posted by Guy on June 23, 2007, at 12:20:52
To blithely lump climate change together with chicken little stories does a huge disservice the mountains of scientific evidence that have been accumulated in recent years. The ozone problem is slowing being resolved because governments worked together to eliminate the offending agent (CFC's) and because a substitute was readily available. The global warming problem is infinitely more difficult to tackle because fossil fuels are intertwined with the very fabric our lives--from the food we eat, to the clothes we wear to the way we get around. Also, there is no substitute that will allow us to maintain business as usual. The bottom line is over-consumption by humans and the burning of hundreds of millions of years of dead plants and animals. Nature sequestered the carbon in the ground for a reason...it was never meant to be dug up and burned. If you think GW is not a problem, just look at what is happening to every glacier on the planet, to the coral reefs, to large parts of Australia, to the boreal forests of Canada (massive pine beetle infestations), etc., etc. Please, do some reading before you dismiss GW as a false alarm.
Posted by Nathan_Arizona on June 24, 2007, at 11:33:17
In reply to Just a minute..., posted by Guy on June 24, 2007, at 10:27:09
Not sure if your post was directed at me, but since I was the only one that mentioned the ozone layer - i'm assuming it is.
I would like for you to read my post again. No where in that post did I say GW wasn't a problem. I also did not blithely lump anything together.
I simply made the case that voters are human beings that live their own lives. It is hard for people to think globally sometimes. I think it is human nature.
I think it takes people like Al Gore, who people seem to like and respect to EDUCATE the public and convince them that this climate change CAN and WILL affect their lives.
The key to change is education not condemnation.
Posted by Guy on June 24, 2007, at 11:54:50
In reply to What if?, posted by Guy on June 23, 2007, at 12:20:52
Sorry Nathan, I misread your post. I see now that you were making a point about human nature in general and not expressing your own scepticism about GW. Yes, the key is education, but unfortunately time has all but run out. Some Earth scientists such as James Lovelock say it's already too late and that we should now be turning to nuclear power to buy ourselves as much time as possible before the inevitable happens.
Posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on June 24, 2007, at 14:56:59
In reply to Just a minute..., posted by Guy on June 24, 2007, at 10:27:09
Also, this is hard to believe, because most people in my community are ignorant to it...but, here in Niagara, ALL of the bee's have vanished! Yes, ALL of them! In one year!
Of course, bees are an essential part of life, in particular for pollination of course.. But...they are just GONE! Nobody can figure out why. They have had the best scientists in the world look at this, and *blank*..nadda idea!
Over a thousand mammals, birds, reptiles, amphibians, insects, and various other species are now extinct. Over 4000 are currently critically threatened. The largest number of extinctions have taken place from the early 20'th century.
The bees in my area, of course, are not extinct. But something pretty drastic has happened, and humans are clueless. (What else is new??..heh.)
Jay
Posted by Sigismund on June 24, 2007, at 15:45:38
In reply to Re: Voters are responsible for this...ALL, posted by Nathan_Arizona on June 24, 2007, at 7:59:08
It's still not there above Tasmania, New Zealand and Antarctica and I *think* it's getting slowly worse.
'Man is a creature that will get used to anything and that is the best description of him'.
Posted by LlurpsieNoodle on June 24, 2007, at 16:01:43
In reply to What if?, posted by Guy on June 23, 2007, at 12:20:52
Somehow, humans have always been able to get their meds. We are a very resilient species. Think of the wide-scale human tragedies and traumas of the last century. The holocaust, World Wars, Darfur, central and east africa in general. the dust bowl. Somehow humans manage to survive extreme conditions, even before modern psychiatry. The ability to brew alcohol from any fruit or grain under the sun is one testament to our inventiveness. From sweet potatoes to peach juice hooch to aged bordeaux... There's a reason why alcohol and natural remedies are passed down throughout the generations.
My best guess is that in extreme circumstances the human psychology will kick in to preserve life. Quality of life may suffer, but it's also amazing how fear is the greatest teacher. Leaning into the pain as an opportunity to truly understand the world, of which one's own nature is a microcosm.
[yeah, I stole that last idea from Pema Chödron- not that clever myself]
bonds form between unlikely individuals. Our true social nature is exposed in its most extreme.
The threat is to our current lifestyle, which is always changing anyhow. One day at the beach the ocean recedes, and fish are flapping in the sun, and out of compassion for life, Thai tourists run out and try to throw them back into the sea, only to be drowned a moment later.
In order to survive, humans will have to LIVE through adversity, not just blunt the sharp edges of life with meds.
and another one from Pema "Only by facing anihiliation over and over again can we learn that part of us which is indestructible."
-Ll
Posted by Sigismund on June 24, 2007, at 19:25:57
In reply to Re: What if? » Guy, posted by LlurpsieNoodle on June 24, 2007, at 16:01:43
Who is Pema Chodron, Lurps?
And where do you get those cool umblatty things from?
Do I have them?
Posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on June 24, 2007, at 19:33:43
In reply to Re: What if? » Guy, posted by LlurpsieNoodle on June 24, 2007, at 16:01:43
> Somehow, humans have always been able to get their meds. We are a very resilient species. Think of the wide-scale human tragedies and traumas of the last century. The holocaust, World Wars, Darfur, central and east africa in general. the dust bowl. Somehow humans manage to survive extreme conditions, even before modern psychiatry. The ability to brew alcohol from any fruit or grain under the sun is one testament to our inventiveness. From sweet potatoes to peach juice hooch to aged bordeaux... There's a reason why alcohol and natural remedies are passed down throughout the generations.
>
> My best guess is that in extreme circumstances the human psychology will kick in to preserve life. Quality of life may suffer, but it's also amazing how fear is the greatest teacher. Leaning into the pain as an opportunity to truly understand the world, of which one's own nature is a microcosm.
>
> [yeah, I stole that last idea from Pema Chödron- not that clever myself]
>
> bonds form between unlikely individuals. Our true social nature is exposed in its most extreme.
>
> The threat is to our current lifestyle, which is always changing anyhow. One day at the beach the ocean recedes, and fish are flapping in the sun, and out of compassion for life, Thai tourists run out and try to throw them back into the sea, only to be drowned a moment later.
>
> In order to survive, humans will have to LIVE through adversity, not just blunt the sharp edges of life with meds.
>
> and another one from Pema "Only by facing anihiliation over and over again can we learn that part of us which is indestructible."
>
> -Ll
>
>
And who are the ones who started all the wars...dropped atomic bombs...ruin the environment, started the Holocaust, the slaughter in Rwanda and now in other African countries? Humans...dumb as f*ck humans. We are our worst enemy..I am quite sure it will be our fault when the human race is obliterated. Then we can leave the planet to all of those beautiful poor creatures, who don't start wars..don't create Holocaust's. Once we are gone, the world will look nice again.Jay
Posted by Nathan_Arizona on June 24, 2007, at 21:27:14
In reply to Re: What if? » LlurpsieNoodle, posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on June 24, 2007, at 19:33:43
Ah humans...
I think you have to embrace our capacity for great cruelty as well as our capacity for immense compassion.
We built auschwitz AND the sistine chapel. We gave birth to Hitler and Ghandhi. We invented the atomic bomb AND penicillin.
Neither all bad nor all good alone fully describes us.
You might disagree - and I'm sorry, but I find us amazing.
Posted by Nathan_Arizona on June 25, 2007, at 8:05:26
In reply to Re: Just a minute...another scarry warning.. » Guy, posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on June 24, 2007, at 14:56:59
A lot of the honey bees have disappeared where I live to, evidentally a mite is killing them.
They are coming back though and "domestic" honeybees are being to treated to provide them additional protection.
Here in NC there is a strain of wild honeybees that seems to be resistant to the mite and I guess that is what we are now seeing.
Posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on June 25, 2007, at 23:22:05
In reply to Re: Just a minute...another scarry warning..bees, posted by Nathan_Arizona on June 25, 2007, at 8:05:26
> A lot of the honey bees have disappeared where I live to, evidentally a mite is killing them.
>
> They are coming back though and "domestic" honeybees are being to treated to provide them additional protection.
>
> Here in NC there is a strain of wild honeybees that seems to be resistant to the mite and I guess that is what we are now seeing.
>
>Well..that isn't the situation here. They've had top international scientists go through the data 24/7 (We have a protected 'greenbelt' in our area of Niagara), nobody has the faintest idea. Oh, and humans by far out-do terrible things more then good things. There is no 'good' version of what Hitler and his willing Germans did. The majority elect greedy, war-mongering selfish leaders.
Jay
Posted by nathan_arizona on June 27, 2007, at 15:03:38
In reply to Re: Just a minute...another scarry warning..bees » Nathan_Arizona, posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on June 25, 2007, at 23:22:05
You know YOU are human, right?
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Social | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.