![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 24 of 24. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by TexasChic on November 11, 2006, at 21:38:14
When I went in to work Monday after my upsetting situation Sunday, my eyes were all puffy from crying. My co-worker said, "You look really, really tired today". I was like, gee thanks, but I told her I had been upset the night before and crying but I was okay. She said something comforting. It was obvious from then on that she & my boss knew I was upset about something.
I ended up staying home Wed and Thur. I told my boss I had a stomach virus. I absolutely HATE to lie, but I couldn't exactly say I needed a couple of days off to get all introspective about my emotions. Actually, I may have been able to say that to her, but I've had too much bad experience sharing these things with people. I should point out this was an unusually slow time for us & I had absolutely nothing to do at work.
So when I came in Friday and I asked my boss what the procedure would be for my missing two day (the company procedure is anyone on salary must make up or take vacation for any absence more than 4 hours. She said, "Don't worry about it, I didn't tell anybody". And I said, "What about my vacation day I planned for Monday, do want me to come in instead?" She said, "No, don't worry about it, put in an extra 30 minutes here and there if you want".
I really feel that I got this job as compensation for all the crap I went through with the my previous jobs.
I just hope karma doesn't punish me for lying.
-T
Posted by Phillipa on November 11, 2006, at 22:49:02
In reply to Karma, posted by TexasChic on November 11, 2006, at 21:38:14
T you were reassurred by the boss over and over that things would be fine. So don't worry about it. Karma is not going to get you. You didn't lie you were sick maybe not stomach but emotion wise. Same to me. Love Phillipa
Posted by ClearSkies on November 11, 2006, at 23:45:04
In reply to Karma, posted by TexasChic on November 11, 2006, at 21:38:14
I thought Karma worked in both directions. That a poor experience/behaviour/life story/ could be balanced by another experience. Your good get transferred onto what needs good, And bad experiences get exposed to so trough a sorry need good to balance it out, Karma. And that it's your purpose to recognize when this happens and initiate change.
I think that is Karma, It must go both ways.
CSp.s. Texas Chic, I am so impressed with how you have worked out at this new job. I wouldn't want you to do/say/act anyway that might shorten your stay there.
ClearSkies
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on November 12, 2006, at 9:58:32
In reply to Re: Karma » TexasChic, posted by ClearSkies on November 11, 2006, at 23:45:04
Hey!
You sound really like in control of the situation! I wish I had your courage and things like that.
>the company procedure is anyone on salary must make up or take vacation for any absence more than 4 hours.
I can not believe this!!!!!!! No way! Thats crazy! Don't you have sick pay in the states? There's a maximum number of days you're legally allowed 'off sick' here in the UK. The company has to pay you, and it doesn't come out of your holiday allocation. They are simply days when you're sick, but you still get full pay and whatnot, although, you are only allowed 12 days or two weeks or something. I think the company still has to pay you if you're off longer as well, I'm not too sure, as I've never had this! But at any rate, the state will take over payments if the employer doesn't pay.....
Its like I heard that in American you don't get holiday pay. In any job here in the UK there is a *legal* minimum number of days per year you're allowed off 'as holiday' no matter what job you do and they have to pay you for your time off. Its 20 days here at the moment (excluding bank holidays). Of course, most companies offer more through, this is just the legal minimum. So in reality if you work a 9-5 office job mon-fri, you get around 4 paid weeks off per year, including bank holidays etc. Its pretty good! Plus sick days, which are unoffically an extra source of 'holiday'. Most people pull 'sickies' now and then. Particulary when they've been drinking! :o)
Crazy, huh!
Kind regards
Meri
Posted by Lindenblüte on November 12, 2006, at 10:02:48
In reply to Re: Karma » TexasChic, posted by ClearSkies on November 11, 2006, at 23:45:04
Tex, you are getting the respect you deserve. You have impressed your colleagues in a very short time at this new job, and they are willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. They know that there is something going on in your life, and they care about you enough to allow you the time to deal with it.
> I think that is Karma, It must go both ways.
yes it does- what your colleagues and boss are able to recognize is that you are human, and that you are not a robot. They know that if they give the space to recover, that when you come back, you will be even MORE dedicated towards working well and doing your best job. This is a very good call on their part, and it's good of you to communicate that you were not feeling well, but that you nonetheless are committed to doing your best at work.
You will put in an extra 30 minutes here and there, and gain some good graces. I know that when you go back to work on Tuesday you will feel like you've been given a fresh start. It will be wonderful.
In the meanwhile, you take extra good care of yourself. If there are things that you can fix that are under your control, then take care of them. Maybe you can do some loads of laundry and feel some pride in the accomplishment of transforming a pile of textiles into folded neatness? This will give you some hope and the organization will make you feel more positive about yourself and your life.
best wishes,
-Li
>
> p.s. Texas Chic, I am so impressed with how you have worked out at this new job. I wouldn't want you to do/say/act anyway that might shorten your stay there.
>
> ClearSkiesyes- whatever you are doing, keep it up. I try to keep my personal drama out of the office dynamic, except to the extent that I need to inform them about "feeling unwell". This will keep your colleagues focused on TexChic as a colleague and an employee, which is a very positive image, I think.
Posted by TexasChic on November 12, 2006, at 13:24:28
In reply to Re: Karma, posted by Lindenblüte on November 12, 2006, at 10:02:48
I was really kind of joking about Karma punishing me for lying, although I do feel a certain amount of guilt about doing it. I really don't know enough about Karma to be talking about it I guess. I just think that if you look for the positive, that's what you will find (and same for negative). I guess I just try to balance it out in my mind that I deserve this or that. Like, because I put up with all the crap at the last jobs, I deserve this new one. I guess that's kind of warped now that I think about it.
Thanks for all the encouragement! I feel quite secure in my new job, I don't think I've done anything to jepordize it. I just feel bad about lying to people who are being so good to me. But I don't see any way around it. I'm trying really hard to keep my personal stuff entirely out of this job.
-T
Posted by TexasChic on November 12, 2006, at 13:38:25
In reply to Re: Karma » TexasChic, posted by Phillipa on November 11, 2006, at 22:49:02
> T you were reassurred by the boss over and over that things would be fine. So don't worry about it. Karma is not going to get you. You didn't lie you were sick maybe not stomach but emotion wise. Same to me. Love Phillipa
You're right of course. It was just that bit of guilt about lying that made me joke around about it.
Thanks!
-T
Posted by TexasChic on November 12, 2006, at 13:44:35
In reply to Re: Karma » TexasChic, posted by ClearSkies on November 11, 2006, at 23:45:04
> I thought Karma worked in both directions. That a poor experience/behaviour/life story/ could be balanced by another experience. Your good get transferred onto what needs good, And bad experiences get exposed to so trough a sorry need good to balance it out, Karma. And that it's your purpose to recognize when this happens and initiate change.
>
> I think that is Karma, It must go both ways.
> CS
>
> p.s. Texas Chic, I am so impressed with how you have worked out at this new job. I wouldn't want you to do/say/act anyway that might shorten your stay there.
>
> ClearSkies
Thanks, I'm pretty impressed with how I have done too! I haven't done anything to shorten my stay. If there had been work I would never have called in. And I've found they sort of look to me for answers about certain things, like computer problems. I feel very appreciated, which is such a new feeling!-T
Posted by TexasChic on November 12, 2006, at 14:02:19
In reply to Re: Karma, posted by Meri-Tuuli on November 12, 2006, at 9:58:32
> You sound really like in control of the situation! I wish I had your courage and things like that.
Thanks, it hasn't come easy, that's for sure. I've definitely paid my dues.
> >the company procedure is anyone on salary must make up or take vacation for any absence more than 4 hours.
I can not believe this!!!!!!! No way! Thats crazy! Don't you have sick pay in the states?Some jobs provide sick pay, but not most. Usually when you first start a job, you get 5-10 days vacation that you can't use until you've been there a year. The way my current job works, you earn about one day every month you work that you can use right away for vacation or sick days (I think, I'm still a little confused about the sick days), plus we get about 12 holidays. Sounds like yall got it much better over there! But where I am is better than any other place I've been. Especially the fact that I can come in whenever I want and not get penalized for being late. That was something that plagued me in my last jobs because I had a tendency to be 5-10 minutes late. Yeah, I'm loving this job.
-T
Posted by TexasChic on November 12, 2006, at 14:09:53
In reply to Re: Karma, posted by Lindenblüte on November 12, 2006, at 10:02:48
> Tex, you are getting the respect you deserve. You have impressed your colleagues in a very short time at this new job, and they are willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. They know that there is something going on in your life, and they care about you enough to allow you the time to deal with it.
Thanks, I guess it hard sometimes to accept that I'm being respected because I've never had it before (but always knew I deserved it).
> You will put in an extra 30 minutes here and there, and gain some good graces. I know that when you go back to work on Tuesday you will feel like you've been given a fresh start. It will be wonderful.
I think so too.
> In the meanwhile, you take extra good care of yourself. If there are things that you can fix that are under your control, then take care of them. Maybe you can do some loads of laundry and feel some pride in the accomplishment of transforming a pile of textiles into folded neatness? This will give you some hope and the organization will make you feel more positive about yourself and your life.Good advice!
> yes- whatever you are doing, keep it up. I try to keep my personal drama out of the office dynamic, except to the extent that I need to inform them about "feeling unwell". This will keep your colleagues focused on TexChic as a colleague and an employee, which is a very positive image, I think.
That's what I'm going to try to do. I've always let too much personal stuff into my work life, I'm trying very hard not to do that with this one. Thanks for all the kind words.
-T
Posted by TexasChic on November 12, 2006, at 14:14:46
In reply to Re: Karma, posted by TexasChic on November 12, 2006, at 14:09:53
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on November 12, 2006, at 15:49:49
In reply to Re: Karma » Meri-Tuuli, posted by TexasChic on November 12, 2006, at 14:02:19
I'm really glad you're liking the job. Its important to be somewhere that treats you like a human being and not a machine!
I have to apologise for the tone of my last post, it came across abit strongly I know. I don't know, we just take things so much for granted here in the UK, if you see what I'm saying. Like, I truly find it hard to imagine what it must be like to have the system like it is in the states. I guess I take sick days/vacation days for granted, I mean because they're a legal requirement here, it seems strange that it isn't legal in the states if you see what I mean.
Yeah, my last job we had ultraflexible time- basically you could come in anytime between 8-10am and leave anytime after 4pm. It was rather nice. As long as you worked 7hours/day they didn't care. Actually, I never worked 7 hours/day, I would often surf the net, post on babble etc.
Anyway you think we have it easy re: vacation time in the UK, try France or Italy. My brother who lives & works in Milan gets three weeks solid off in August, in addition to other holidays. Crazy slacker Europeans, eh? Actually, come to think of it, isn't it bit of a stereotype that Europeans have loads of vacations/less working hours in a week etc and Americans work 24/7? hmm.
Meri
Posted by TexasChic on November 12, 2006, at 19:04:55
In reply to Re: Karma » TexasChic, posted by Meri-Tuuli on November 12, 2006, at 15:49:49
> I have to apologise for the tone of my last post, it came across abit strongly I know.
I didn't sense any tone, you were fine. I found it very enlightening actually!
> Yeah, my last job we had ultraflexible time- basically you could come in anytime between 8-10am and leave anytime after 4pm. It was rather nice. As long as you worked 7hours/day they didn't care. Actually, I never worked 7 hours/day, I would often surf the net, post on babble etc.
7 hours?? We're required to work 8 hours!!! And on salary the number of hours you work is limitless! When we were busy at my current job I worked anywhere from 10 to 12 hours a day. But because that is rare and the rest of the time is pretty easy I don't mind. But my boss does that all the time. And I've NEVER worked anywhere where you could come in whenever you want until now! If you were to compare to a regular working man/woman's job, its like this:
- 8 hours a day, usually with no say as to what hours you work (sometimes you get off at 11pm one night and have to be in at 7am the next day)
- sometimes you're 'required' to work overtime (although you do get paid time and a half for it)
- you have to punch a clock & every minute is monitored and must be accounted for (seriously, they know how long you took for a bathroom break)
- you're penalized for being late or absent (even if you were sick) & you get fired after a certain number - usually a small one
- you only get 5 days of vacation after you've been there a year, and can only take them during certain times.
- you usually have quotas to fill, or at least a certain amount of work must be completed no matter what other company business comes up that you have to take care of
- add to this you get paid about a third of what you need to actually live off of (and I'm not exaggerating at all).Its really crazy. I guess that's the significance of my current job, its the first one that isn't like that. I worked very hard to get here, but it is due to a certain amount of luck. There are so many people out there working so hard that don't make enough to live off of and get worked half to death. That's pretty much how my sister's job is. Don't get me wrong, I know we have it better than most, we're not working in a sweatshop or anything, but I think its something that is pushed under the rug.
> Anyway you think we have it easy re: vacation time in the UK, try France or Italy. My brother who lives & works in Milan gets three weeks solid off in August, in addition to other holidays. Crazy slacker Europeans, eh? Actually, come to think of it, isn't it bit of a stereotype that Europeans have loads of vacations/less working hours in a week etc and Americans work 24/7? hmmI don't know about stereotypes, I view crazy slacker Europeans as my future husband. So... is your brother single?
-T
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on November 13, 2006, at 1:19:52
In reply to Re: Karma » Meri-Tuuli, posted by TexasChic on November 12, 2006, at 19:04:55
Hey TC!
> I didn't sense any tone, you were fine. I found it very enlightening actually!
Oh thats okay then.!
Wow the differences are huge between working practices Europe and the USA. I never realised it!
> 7 hours?? We're required to work 8 hours!!! And on salary the number of hours you work is limitless!
Yep, 7 hours a day, with an hour for lunch, 35 hours a week. It would have been illegal for you to work anymore. No-body ever worked over their hours, unless you were 'important' - and then it was up to you. The company could only have you their for the time in the contract, which was 35hrs/week.
>(sometimes you get off at 11pm one night and have to be in at 7am the next day)
I think this is illegal in the UK - you're supposed to have a minimum amount of time off between 'shifts'. And anyway, the situation wouldn't arise because employers rarely ask their staff to do this sort of thing, okay maybe if you're a doctor, or an investment banker or something, but then its usually up to the person to decide - the company can't force you, and if they do, you can take them to court etc. This is also the same for the maximum number of hours you are legally allowed to work in a week - of course, if you chose to work 70, then its fine, but if your employer forces you, then you can take them to court etc etc. I can't remember what the legal maximum is. There is some debate because of EU stuff and in fact, British workers have the longest working week compared to other EU states, so if you think we sound like slackers.... !
> - you have to punch a clock & every minute is monitored and must be accounted for (seriously, they know how long you took for a bathroom break)
! Man, thats strict. No-body cared in my last job one bit......
> - you're penalized for being late or absent (even if you were sick) & you get fired after a certain number - usually a small one
Yeah, wow, I think its illegial to fire someone like that. You're defiantely allowed a set amount of days off per year, and I don't think you can fire someone for being late....
> - you only get 5 days of vacation after you've been there a year, and can only take them during certain times.
!!!! Well, here the mimimum is definately 20/year. And they usually kick in as soon as you start your job (well at least they did with my old job) and it rises to 25 days per year after you've been there for a couple of years. Thats in addition to bank holidays.
> - add to this you get paid about a third of what you need to actually live off of (and I'm not exaggerating at all).
I thought America was supposed to be cheap to live in? I guess you have to pay for health insurance and things. I suppose here if you're on a low wage (I mean not superlow) you don't have to worry about health insurance and things like that.
And America is so huge I guess rent caries wildly depending on where you live.> I think its something that is pushed under the rug.
Yeah from the sounds of things it seems like you could do with some European style working rules!!
But you have this free market economy or whatever. We've had some socialist revolutions! And we have this idea in our heads that Americans make crazy money and don't pay much tax. We have to pay like 1/3 tax here on our incomes, and if you count other sources of tax, I reckon its more like 1/2 salary goes on tax.
>So... is your brother single?Hehehe, well he's gay, so unless you're a bloke I doubt you'll stand a chance.... I'm assuming you're a gal, although I could be wrong...
Okay so a typical day might look like this (at least where I worked last, and I seem to think that it was typical.... or at least, no-one was like 'wow, this is so good here!'
~9.15 get in (although could get in anywhere 8-10, and some people even showed up at 10.30 and no-one cared)
Sit down, check email, head to cafeteria for breakfast...
9.30 Eat breakfast at desk while reading the news headlines
9.45-11 work....
11 coffee break
11.15 work again
12noon lunch
1pm back from lunch
1-3 work
3-4 Surf web, look busy, go over to friends for a chat
4-5 Bit more work
5pm Walk home.....That would be a fairly typical day for me in my old job as an administrator in a publishing house.
Crazy huh!
Posted by Lindenblüte on November 13, 2006, at 8:44:24
In reply to Re: Karma, posted by Meri-Tuuli on November 13, 2006, at 1:19:52
Hi Meri, Tex,
My working day looks a lot like yours Meri, except that I've been eating lunch at my desk, because I'm too poor to go out for lunch. I just bring in a sandwich or pop a lean cuisine in the microwave.
One of my friends works in Texas, but for a British tech firm. He gets 4 weeks paid vacation, and all the other benefits of the british system. A far cry from his previous job, where he only got 5 days paid vacation ALL YEAR!
He also got family leave when his daughter was born, I think about a week or two, so that's another nice benefit. US firms don't give a crap if one's spouse has just delivered a baby.
-Li
We had a French guy working with us, and he was ALWAYS getting in to trouble because he'd take off for 2 weeks on vacation a couple times a year. This is unheard of in the USA? Whatever. I do it, but I'm in academia. :)
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on November 13, 2006, at 9:37:16
In reply to Re: Karma, posted by Lindenblüte on November 13, 2006, at 8:44:24
Hey Li, Tex,!
> He also got family leave when his daughter was born, I think about a week or two, so that's another nice benefit. US firms don't give a crap if one's spouse has just delivered a baby.
Yeah, this is another legal requirement - as a new dad you're legally entitled to two weeks off fully paid 'paternity leave'. What materity benefits do you have in the States, dare I ask if you have such a thing? And, I would like to add, paternity/materity laws in the UK pale in comparison to that they are in Scandivanian countries.
> We had a French guy working with us, and he was ALWAYS getting in to trouble because he'd take off for 2 weeks on vacation a couple times a year. This is unheard of in the USA? Whatever. I do it, but I'm in academia. :)
Hehehehe yeah its very common in the summer months (July for Scandos and August for S. Europe) for whole cities to shut down - everyone goes on vacation for at least two weeks and the cities are left with just tourists. In the UK its more American style and two weeks is the average, but man, three, even four weeks vacation in the summer is kinda normal. For example,this summer, my Finnish brother works for a electronics company as a software um something, (dunno something with networks!) and he got 3 and half weeks off this summer.
I don't know how Europe manages to get any work done with all this vacation time and short hours and paternity leave and sick pay. Well something must be going right!
So Li (Tilia!) are you a grad student?
Posted by corafree on November 13, 2006, at 13:04:15
In reply to Karma, posted by TexasChic on November 11, 2006, at 21:38:14
That little white lie didn't hurt anyone, but you a little, and you already got it .. the karma, I think.
It's when we hurt others deliberately and cause them pain, think.
Karma .. what goes around comes around. Boy you're really 'realizing' a lot T.
I like these 'messages' you are sharing.
cf
Posted by TexasChic on November 13, 2006, at 17:39:18
In reply to Re: Karma » TexasChic, posted by corafree on November 13, 2006, at 13:04:15
> That little white lie didn't hurt anyone, but you a little, and you already got it .. the karma, I think.
> It's when we hurt others deliberately and cause them pain, think.Thanks! I believe that's just what I needed to hear. Now I can settle it in my head. Weird how things can just elude you like that.
> Karma .. what goes around comes around. Boy you're really 'realizing' a lot T.
> I like these 'messages' you are sharing.
> cfThanks. I think too much, so its good to get some of it out sometimes. I'm forever analyzing everything.
-T
Posted by TexasChic on November 13, 2006, at 18:12:50
In reply to Re: Karma, posted by Lindenblüte on November 13, 2006, at 8:44:24
I might should have specified I was talking about the type of jobs you get without a college education. Just your everyday person struggling to get through. There are definitely lots of other people making loads of money and all that. But there's a very real separation of the classes. I guess that's the big deal about this job I got, its like I've crossed a threshold. I've crossed from the hood into rich folk's territory.
Of course I'm not saying its all black and white. There's tons of people who have overcome many challanges and become very successful. I just think what's not as well known is how rare and difficult it is, and how much most people struggle.
-T
God, I hope this doen't start a political debate. Lets leave that for the politics board. This is just my viewpoint and speculation, nothing more.
Posted by madeline on November 13, 2006, at 19:08:41
In reply to Work, posted by TexasChic on November 13, 2006, at 18:12:50
hey man, things are rough all over you know?
Posted by TexasChic on November 13, 2006, at 19:56:47
In reply to Re: Work » TexasChic, posted by madeline on November 13, 2006, at 19:08:41
> hey man, things are rough all over you know?
Oh yes, I definitely realize that. I was afraid this was going to come out wrong. I know I could be starving in Africa or living somewhere where women are treated horribly. I am definitely aware I have it good. I was just complaining is all.
-T
Posted by madeline on November 14, 2006, at 1:58:55
In reply to Re: Work, posted by TexasChic on November 13, 2006, at 19:56:47
complain away baby, I'm with you!
Maddie
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on November 14, 2006, at 13:39:02
In reply to Work, posted by TexasChic on November 13, 2006, at 18:12:50
Hey TC!
>I just think what's not as well known is how rare and difficult it is, and how much most people struggle.
You hit the nail on the head. I think this is completely underemphasized in American society. In fact, theres a whole series on TV/a book written by a famous contemporary philosopher here called Alain de Botton... and its called "status anxiety"
I thoroughly urge you to check it out. For instance, it says, well exactly what you say, that for many the 'American dream' is very hard to achieve, and its very very hard to move out of your social rank you were born into.
Also, there's actually an index of a countries 'distribution of wealth' so, in effect, its a measure of how 'equal' a society is in terms of economic income. Like, you could have a country which was techically very rich, but only a tiny handful of the people had this money and the rest were dirt poor, as compared to say, somewhere were people earnt more or less the same income.
So, for instance, the US has an 'equality index' of (ie the distribution of wealth) of 45, whilst Finland has a distribution of 26.9. For comparison, the country with the highest 'inequal income' is Namibia with 70, whilst the lowest is Sweden/Beligium both with 25. It should be noted that alot of the African countries score around 50, which isn't so far off the value for America...So basically, you have quite an unequal income distribution, comparable to some of the countries in Africa. I guess its personal opinion whether its viewed as a good thing or not. See below for explanation....these are CIA statisics, too.
https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/fields/2172.html
Anyway sorry this is rather heavy, but I just wanted to say, I fully hear what you're saying. I mean, for a start, to get a college education in the states you have to pay through the nose, right? I mean, yeah, sure they're scholarships and stuff, but there's still and inequality there. If you're 'averagely bright' and are dirt poor, well you're never going to go to a, for example, Ivy league college, are you? It would be too expensive. (I could be wrong, of course.) But, if you've got rich parents, and you're averagely bright, then they can afford to have all kinds of tutors help you, and you're gonna be able to afford to go in the first place, so you're going to get an Ivy league education, get some good job.... so its not every equal.
I mean, in the UK you can at least go to Oxford/Cambridge, without any special help/scholarships etc etc even if you're dirt poor but bright....
Hmmm, sorry this is turning rather political too! But its just something I'm (vaguely) interested in.
Kind regards, and thanks for the patience!Meri
____________________________________________If you want to find out what the numbers mean:
This index measures the degree of inequality in the distribution of family income in a country. The index is calculated from the Lorenz curve, in which cumulative family income is plotted against the number of families arranged from the poorest to the richest. The index is the ratio of (a) the area between a country's Lorenz curve and the 45 degree helping line to (b) the entire triangular area under the 45 degree line. The more nearly equal a country's income distribution, the closer its Lorenz curve to the 45 degree line and the lower its Gini index, e.g., a Scandinavian country with an index of 25. The more unequal a country's income distribution, the farther its Lorenz curve from the 45 degree line and the higher its Gini index, e.g., a Sub-Saharan country with an index of 50. If income were distributed with perfect equality, the Lorenz curve would coincide with the 45 degree line and the index would be zero; if income were distributed with perfect inequality, the Lorenz curve would coincide with the horizontal axis and the right vertical axis and the index would be 100.
https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/docs/notesanddefs.html#2172
Posted by TexasChic on November 14, 2006, at 19:06:22
In reply to Re: Work » TexasChic, posted by Meri-Tuuli on November 14, 2006, at 13:39:02
Thanks! What you said was what I was trying to say but I got all worried about starting a political debate or making someone mad that I couldn't quite get it out.
I'll have to check out that book!
-T
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