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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 9 to 33 of 47. Go back in thread:
Posted by Dinah on June 20, 2006, at 7:24:41
In reply to Au Contraire » Dinah, posted by Gabbi~G on June 20, 2006, at 2:08:20
Well, I have the angst hair at the moment. :)
I was feeling sorry for myself and decided I wasn't worthy of even the budget hair places, so I chopped it off myself, with my husband evening the job a bit.
Now I *have* to wear it in braids or ponytails.
I wasn't offended, Gabbi. Just commenting that most of us on Babble probably couldn't be identified from a distance. :)
Posted by Dinah on June 20, 2006, at 7:26:18
In reply to Re: Yeah, that's me. Over there in the minivan. » Dinah, posted by Michael83 on June 20, 2006, at 7:00:14
Well, not only am I one of them, but I know bunches of them.
If you'd like to learn more, you've but to ask.
Posted by Gabbi~G on June 20, 2006, at 8:49:54
In reply to Re: Au Contraire » Gabbi~G, posted by Dinah on June 20, 2006, at 7:24:41
Sorry, I cliced the button to you, but it wasn't directed toward you
Posted by gardenergirl on June 20, 2006, at 9:24:52
In reply to Re: Au Contraire » Gabbi~G, posted by Michael83 on June 20, 2006, at 7:09:36
> But if you must know, and if it hasn't been obvious, I detest most of the world.
Good to know about you. Thanks.
> Most people don't think about anything.
I'm not sure how you can support that statement.
gg
Posted by Dinah on June 20, 2006, at 9:39:54
In reply to Re: Au Contraire, posted by Gabbi~G on June 20, 2006, at 8:49:54
I know.
Love you Gabbi.
Posted by Phillipa on June 20, 2006, at 12:15:54
In reply to Re: Au Contraire » Gabbi~G, posted by Michael83 on June 20, 2006, at 7:09:36
My biggest problem is all I do is think and compare myself to other people. Love Phillipa
Posted by llrrrpp on June 20, 2006, at 20:12:25
In reply to Re: Au Contraire » Michael83, posted by Phillipa on June 20, 2006, at 12:15:54
That category of "Us" and "Them" is so fuzzy! I was reminded of that this morning (long-winded story to follow-sorrrrrrry!)
Waiting at the bus stop, sit down next to a guy, he says good morning, I say same. He asks me if I'm on my way to school (got my backpack on). Yes. What do you study? Psychology. Oh, I've got me one of those, psychologist and a psychiatrist too; they got me on depakote (sp?) and 2 anti-depressants and sleeping pills too; (long conversation ensued, in which he calmly, normally, told me about his paranoia, panic attachs, psychotic breaks, depression, and homicidal tendencies. Oh, well that's good that you're getting treatment, I say, because a lot of people never get help, they just self-medicate, and end up with a lot of substance-abuse problems (long conversation ensued about his drug use). This guy was well-groomed, articulate, calm, and seemed quite intelligent. btw, probably low-income, because of that bus route, and because he has to go to county hospital.
[I didn't ever disclose my own medication, and struggles with depression]
Travelling on the bus, on the way to school. I see another guy, same age as my conversant. Drinking wine out of the bottle in the park at 9am. Who knows what his diagnosis is.
Who's normal anymore? who's an other? Who's got problems? Who doesn't?
Am i more similar to the wino in the park, or the "normal people" on the bus? hmm
Posted by Michael83 on June 20, 2006, at 20:23:35
In reply to Question: Are you one of them?, posted by Michael83 on June 19, 2006, at 23:10:38
If you're sensitive please do not read this (thank you.)
I wasn't meaning to put anyone down, but I was rather trying to voice why I am glad to be me, even with large issues I have (if you wish to know about, you can find a post by me and my problem on the psychology board posted on 5/18/06)
My problem is that I think too much about things that should not be thought about. I'm trying to find truth, no matter how ugly it is, and the harsh truth of this world is more than people can bare, so most ignore it, which is why I said most people don't think about things. I look at everything (yes everything) from a completely unbiased and very "3rd person" perspective, something most people cannot do.
"Those people" don't ponder the world like or other people like me do. They don't care. They just find something comforting and stick with it. That's why I look down upon them.
Most people have weak intellect. They have no will. No ideals. No nothing. They just do what comforts them, like an animal in their natural environment trying to survive.
I also have other things to say about "those people," but I'll try not to elaborate so I do not offend anyone here. Let's just say I have much higher standards than most and I just look at some people and the mistakes they constantly make and the things they do to shelter themselves and wonder "what the heck is wrong with you?"
When you understand how small most people really are (intellectually, morally, in terms of personal will, etc), then you can understand why I cannot help looking down on others.
I feel miserable because of the things I constantly obsess over, but I still would not trade it to be one of the "sheltered" people. That's what my post was about.
With that said, I think a lot of you on here are not sheltered. You think about things and that's good. I really like and admire anyone you truly truly thinks about things and I think a lot of you do.
Posted by gardenergirl on June 20, 2006, at 20:49:26
In reply to In this post I will explain my comments., posted by Michael83 on June 20, 2006, at 20:23:35
> Most people have weak intellect.
> I also have other things to say about "those people," but I'll try not to elaborate so I do not offend anyone here.
With all due respect, while you may not have intended to offend anyone, I encourage you to try to read your words through "the others'" eyes. Those "others" may have more capacity for compassion, wisdom, and critical thinking than either you or me.
That said, please do not post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civilFollow-ups regarding these issues should be directed to Admin and should of course be civil. Dr. Bob has oversight over deputy decisions, and he may choose a different action.
Regards,
deputy gg
Posted by TexasChic on June 20, 2006, at 20:53:44
In reply to In this post I will explain my comments., posted by Michael83 on June 20, 2006, at 20:23:35
Okay, this is what I almost posted eariler, but I refrained because of fear of being misunderstood. So try to keep in mind I'm not trying to say anything negative in any way. Wow, I'm making this sound much worse than it usually is. I just like to be very careful with posting.
---------------------
Sounds like you're talking about the shallow, materialistic type of person compared to the type who are deeper and try to think of others. Of course, to assume people fall into either catagory based on appearances alone would be presumptuous, but I get what you were trying to say. I guess its hard to tell when someone is generalizing to make a point and when they literally believe EVERY person in the category is that way. Like when I say, "This ALWAYS happens to me!" Do I mean it really always happens, or am I exagerating to make the point that it happens alot? (That may not be the most apt example, but it was the only thing I could think of to make my point).
Minivan driving soccer moms have a certain reputation, but to assume EVERY minivan driving soccer mom is the same would be ridiculous. Its like the 'dumb blonde' thing I have to put up with. If someone literally believed hair color affected intelligence, well, I think that person's intelligence would be more questionable than the blonde's.
I guess what I'm trying to say is, people will use 'stereotypes' (for lack of a better word) to make a point, figuring most people know they don't REALLY mean everyone in that category is that way. But when in this environment (chatroom), there is a much higher possibility for it to be misconstrued. So I guess you have to try to proof posts thinking, 'could this be taken literally?'
I hope this makes sense.
-T
Posted by TexasChic on June 20, 2006, at 21:02:27
In reply to Please be civil » Michael83, posted by gardenergirl on June 20, 2006, at 20:49:26
> Most people have weak intellect.
Could he have said 'alot of people'? I don't want to go to admin with this simple question, I'm just kind of asking in general to try to understand. If I'm in the wrong, feel free to let me know.
I just don't see how this is different from saying 'people suck', which I believe I've said before. Maybe I just got off lucky.
Thanks!
-T
Posted by Michael83 on June 20, 2006, at 22:30:07
In reply to Please be civil » Michael83, posted by gardenergirl on June 20, 2006, at 20:49:26
I didn't mean to offend, in fact I went out of my to try not to offend because I know some people on this forum may be easily triggered or hurt by certain comments. I know this all too well, at certain times I can be triggered into intense fear by the simplest of things. But I posted a "caution" message at the top of the post if it's any consolation. I really really din't want to make anyone feel bad.
And in all honesty, I only said about 1% of what I could have said about "most people."
But on the other hand, "most people" aren't very considerate to me, especially when it comes my opinions, which I try not to voice.
I right off the bat get the "Ohhhhh, what do you think you're better than 'most people'?!?!?" If I do, what's wrong with that? Honestly, what logically thinking, self respecting person looks at the world and goes around thinking they're "better than no one"? Who can look at this cruel and ignorant world and not feel a bit "better than most"?
I don't shove it in people's face, and I try to tolerate even the most intolerable people. In real life I try to keep my feelings towards others to myself and behave humbly around others. But I was just venting bottled up thoughts on this board, it's not a reflection of things I go around saying to just anyone. Just venting frustrations.
In my opinion, if I'm "so great" I should at least have the courtesy to be reasonable and humble to most. A rude arrogant person isn't really "that great" in my opinion.
I am sorry if I broke the rules of the board, I will be more careful next time.
Posted by Michael83 on June 20, 2006, at 23:02:35
In reply to Re: Please be civil » TexasChic, posted by TexasChic on June 20, 2006, at 22:18:36
>>>>I kind of understand why you PBC'd Michael, like I said, its very easy to misconstrue in this environment. I however, read it as his way of trying to say that we, people dealing with 'mental illness' (I sure would like another term for that), are not beneath others. In fact, our introspective, obsessive nature may even make us more aware of other people's feelings.
You got it EXACTLY! That's exactly what I was trying to say. People like us reflect. Life can blur by fast for people without problems.Problems slow life down a bit and cause people to take a step back to "think things over."
Meanwhile, the masses, their lives are a blur of "blissful ignorance" and chasing the useless things of life.
Don't know why, but it reminds me of something Mark Twain wrote from "Adam's Diary."
"I see that I was mistaken about Eve in the beginning; it is better to live outside the Garden with her than inside it without her. At first I thought she talked too much; but now I should be sorry to have that voice fall silent and pass out of my life. Blessed be the chestnut that brought us near together and taught me to know the goodness of her heart and the sweetness of her spirit!"
Twain wrote (it was a rewritten 1st person account of the Adam and Eve story) this as a reference to having an accurate general knowledge of the world (living outside the Garden), as opposed to living in the Garden (living in ignorance).
The "chestnut" is what the serpent referred to the forbidden apple as in the story, which represents I guess for me (or anyone else) as the problems (of thinking and searching for truth) which open my eyes to the world. Eve herself, the person who first ate the apple, would also represent part of the "problems," which would turn out to actually be a wonderful gift.
The first time I read that part of Twain's story was in August of 2002, when I was at my worst and in the "deconverting process." (I was basically having a nonstop, 24/7, 3 week long panic attack. I would go to bed trembling and wake up trembling .) I remember tears coming down my eyes right after I read that paragraph. To me, someone searching for self esteem to trust my own logic and search for truth, it was the most beautiful thing anyone had ever written. I remember the moment exactly. It was breath taking when the whole intention of the story came together.
(Sorry I had to vent that to someone.)
THAT'S what I mean.
Thank you for understanding my good intended post. =D I was just trying to bring those with problems up, not down.
Posted by AuntieMel on June 21, 2006, at 11:59:42
In reply to In this post I will explain my comments., posted by Michael83 on June 20, 2006, at 20:23:35
Please keep reading 'til the end.
I am (was?) one of those soccer moms. I even had a mini-van until it died (and I couldn't get another one, cause they don't make them with standard transmissions anymore.)
I have a pretty nice house in a very nice neighborhood.
keep reading......
I drove my van *full* of girls (only one was my kid) to soccer practices and games. Why? Two reasons - their parants didn't want to, or couldn't, but more important I found out a *lot* about what the girls were up to just by driving.
Why do I have a nice house in that neighborhood? My old house was almost paid for, but the schools were going down so I moved to get to a better school district.
keep reading......
BUT I *do* understand what you are talking about. A lot of my neighbors are pretty shallow. One time I participated in hosting a (big formal) party for my daughter's class. During the decorating, all the other moms talked about was who lived in which "mansion" and what so-and-so just got.
I couldn't get out of there quick enough.
{now I drive an SUV - it's a couple of years old: the last year they made them in with a standard transmission}
Posted by Tamar on June 21, 2006, at 16:08:42
In reply to In this post I will explain my comments., posted by Michael83 on June 20, 2006, at 20:23:35
If you haven't read Nietzsche's 'The Genealogy of Morals' I think you might find it quite interesting. Alternatively, 'Thus Spoke Zarathustra'.
Tamar
Posted by gardenergirl on June 21, 2006, at 17:03:21
In reply to Re: Please be civil » gardenergirl, posted by Michael83 on June 20, 2006, at 22:30:07
> I didn't mean to offend, in fact I went out of my to try not to offend because I know some people on this forum may be easily triggered or hurt by certain comments.
I believe you. However, not meaning to and even posting a caution that some may be offended does not negate the rules.
>
> And in all honesty, I only said about 1% of what I could have said about "most people."It may be a good thing that you reserved the remainder.
>
> But on the other hand, "most people" aren't very considerate to me, especially when it comes my opinions, which I try not to voice.As Dr. Bob often says, "Two wrongs do not make a right." The civility rules apply even if one feels that others were not civil in return.
>
> I right off the bat get the "Ohhhhh, what do you think you're better than 'most people'?!?!?" If I do, what's wrong with that?There is no problem with thinking you are better than anyone else right up to the point of putting down others. I believe our individual rights extend only as far as others' begin.
>But I was just venting bottled up thoughts on this board, it's not a reflection of things I go around saying to just anyone. Just venting frustrations.
Venting can be a useful thing to do, but we do not have the freedom to say whatever we wish here.
>
>
> I am sorry if I broke the rules of the board, I will be more careful next time.Thank you. Please feel free to ask a deputy for feedback before posting if you are unsure of something. Some posters also use a "civility buddy" for guidance.
Take care,
gg
Posted by gardenergirl on June 21, 2006, at 17:59:33
In reply to Re: Please be civil » TexasChic, posted by Michael83 on June 20, 2006, at 23:02:35
>
> Meanwhile, the masses, their lives are a blur of "blissful ignorance" and chasing the useless things of life.Out of sensitivity to the masses, who may not after all be chasing "useless things", would you please rephrase the above statement?
Feel free to consult the FAQ http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil and/or to email or babblemail a deputy, Dr. Bob or another poster for assistance.
Thanks,
deputy gg
Posted by TexasChic on June 21, 2006, at 18:03:15
In reply to Not PBCing you :) » TexasChic, posted by gardenergirl on June 21, 2006, at 17:14:00
> I guess I'm just troubled, because I can't see how anyone can really know these things about others. They're inferences at best. No one really knows what's in another's heart, mind, or soul.
Too true.
> Surely no one would get offended because they consider themselves one of the uptight, rude, brainless people?
> They might feel offended if they thought they were being labelled as such. Many labels have derogatory or otherwise critical views embedded in them. That doesn't make the labels themselves wrong, but applying them to another group can lead that group to feel put down or offended. And even "uptight, brainless, rude" people, whoever they might be have feelings, don't they? I ask again, if you thought you were being labelled as such, how would you feel?I didn't see it as labeling as much as grumbling about the rude people in the world. But since you read it otherwise, I guess that means it must of been ambiguous, which we want to avoid.
> Could this possibly be one of those 'reword situations' to let the poster know his comments might be misunderstood?
> I suppose it could be, but actually Dr. Bob considers a "please rephrase" as more serious than a PBC, since it requires an action on the poster's part.Wow, I didn't know that. Shows how much I know.
> I appreciate your thoughts.
I appreciate being appreciated. :-)
I was very leery about posting this last night, I'm a big time confrontation avoider. But I felt like I was the only one getting what Michael was trying to say, so I thought I should speak up.
-T
Posted by Declan on June 21, 2006, at 18:03:22
In reply to Echoes of Nietzsche? » Michael83, posted by Tamar on June 21, 2006, at 16:08:42
Not that I know anything much about him, apart from having read Ecce Homo, which was astonishing and brilliant and crazy. But I would *like* to know more about him. He keeps cropping up...in the idea that Freud is domesticated Nietzche with something (what?) left out.
In the 1880s he said "He who overthrows us is strong; he who raises us up is divine; he who heightens our perceptions is profound."
(Where's that from?)
Prophets,of whatever sort, are interesting.And then also this about him...'Then his tone became that of a solitary man who knows he is no longer being heard: more strident, more virulent, more contemptuous. Balanced essays were replaced by aphorisms, thrown out like orders--a medium he borrowed from the French writers of the C18. At the end madness revealed itself, in the biting cleverness of his utterences, as in the precision with which they were made.'
Umm, I tried Thus Spake Zarathustra. Why couldn't I finish it?
Declan
Posted by gardenergirl on June 21, 2006, at 18:03:44
In reply to Re: Please be civil » gardenergirl, posted by TexasChic on June 20, 2006, at 21:02:27
I redirected the posts about the PBC to admin. You can follow the thread at this link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20060525/msgs/659828.htmlIf I missed any that should go there, please let me know. Thanks!
deputy gg
Posted by gardenergirl on June 21, 2006, at 18:04:44
In reply to Redirected to Admin » TexasChic, posted by gardenergirl on June 21, 2006, at 18:03:44
Posted by Michael83 on June 21, 2006, at 21:10:15
In reply to Please rephrase » Michael83, posted by gardenergirl on June 21, 2006, at 17:59:33
What I meant to say is that most people spend each day concerned mostly with trivial things.
Thinking about some material thing, or being obsessed over silly "entertainment" options like some TV show. Or what they're going to cook for diner. Things like that.
Yeah yeah I think about material things, entertainment options, and what I want to eat, but I don't spend most of my day doing so. Most of my thought is spending "thinking" about what I believe are important things. I examine people, the world, news, collect knowledge.
Tamar brought up Nietzsche. Well most people don't care about Nietzsche, or any philosophy for that matter. Most don't read books like, or books at all (at least important nonfiction books that is).
Part of what I'm saying is that most people are intellectually lazy.
Most people care more about some game show (I'm using this as an example as something trivial, I know most people don't watch game shows on a regular basis) that's on at 8, than knowledge that may expand them intellectually or benefit them in some way.
I remember when I was in college (in 2002/2003) I swear I spent more time in the university library reading than in the classroom. I used to stay at that library until it closed at 9 or 10 at night. I'd walk up and down the isles of non fiction books (it was a university library so it was mostly all nonfiction) and just be fascinated with all the knowledge in those books. I mean really fascinated and exciting. I'd just be in awe at all the things there were to learn. I'd sit and read for hours and hours about everything. I read everything from history books, to philosophy, to science, to even real estate and other investment books, and classics like Walden or some of Mark Twain's books. I honestly remember saying to myself, "If there's a heaven, I'm sure it's a massive library."
Most of the time I wasn't able to finish any of the books I read because by the time I got well into a book, I was like a little dog who found better chew toy to play with and couldn't resist the temptation of another book that I had found. But you still learn a lot by just opening a book and randomly reading.
I always wondered, why aren't most (or even MORE) people like this? Hardly no one reads, or even cares. But they sure watch those game shows by the millions. Yeah they're fun to watch sometimes, but I sure don't want to spend my life glued to them. I'd rather learn something important that will benefit me. (I try to only read about important things.)
Anyway, I'll go back in topic, also when I used the phrase "blissful ignorance," I was referring to heavily dogma-ized organized religion, common pop culture "cure all" phrases (two dimensional simplistic phrases or thought processes people use to explain things they could not otherwise explain.), and/or the habit of just ignoring the world without thinking about it for themselves (and focusing more on those trivial things.)
Look at some of the news shows, they always have to include some sort of simple minded drama or some hook or catch to keep people watching (think Geraldo).
I also think it's funny how the news is only 30 minutes long, but the "primetime" part of TV day is about 3 hours (chalk full of game/reality shows and sitcoms).
And even on the news, the most popular segments are the weather and sports. I couldn't possibly care less about grown men playing some game meant for children, or whether or not it will rain tomorrow (if it rains, it rains, nothing I can do about it.) I don't need a weather prediction, I'll find out the weather when it arrives.
Do I sound like Andy Rooney yet? Sorry. lol.
I did read most of the link you provided in your post, and I will keep it in mind, but most of what is said is about "reactions" to other people's posts. My post isn't a reaction to anything I read on here. I like what I read on here. People here think.
I have nothing against anyone on here. I'm not taking issue with anyone on here. In fact the opposite is true, I feel a sense of compassion for people on here because of what they go through because I deal with similar issues. I'm not point fingers are "you guys," but rather I was trying to say I'm sorta like "you guys" and I'm pointing my finger at all the shallow people (aka "them") of the world.
I know it's not right judge people, but I truly truly believe in my heart of hearts that I have a generally good read on most people I meet (in person at least). I am proven right time and time again, day after day. It's almost like I can predict the words that come out of their mouth. Most normal people are so similar it's beyond belief.
But I'm sure people on this board aren't part of "them." Most of us think and reflect (anyone can think, you don't have to be mentally quick, it's the effort that counts). Most of "them" don't think. They just live in a blur of pop culture and shiny trinkets. And when they do think, they usually come to conclusions (usually simple or trite conclusions) as quickly as possible (thinking is soooooo hard for them), just so they can revert back to their usual blurry self.
I hope that rephrases it better.
Posted by Michael83 on June 21, 2006, at 21:11:49
In reply to Echoes of Nietzsche? » Michael83, posted by Tamar on June 21, 2006, at 16:08:42
I have not read it, but I will certainly give it a look. From the wikipedia entry on it, it seems very interesting. Thanks! =D
Posted by Dinah on June 21, 2006, at 21:28:23
In reply to Re: Please rephrase » gardenergirl, posted by Michael83 on June 21, 2006, at 21:10:15
You know what I'm guessing?
I'm guessing that lady in the SUV is thinking about how she's going to pick up her daughter and bring her to dance class when she also needs to bring her mom to that doctor, because she really doesn't think her eyesight is good enough to drive any more. But what will she do then? How can she stop this proud woman from driving? And who will bring her on her errands? And maybe she should extend an invitation for her mother to live with her, except that her husband might not like that and then what will happen to the kids with all that tension in the house.
And that guy is probably thinking about how he's going to tell his wife that his hours have been cut. Money's tight already, and they just bought that new car that she's wanted so much. Will she be disappointed with him? He knows he really ought to sit down and talk with her about it. But he can't quite face it. Maybe he'll watch a mindless TV show first to give him a chance to relax before bringing it up.
And that lady over there? Her daughter just got engaged to a wonderful young man. Her mind is full of weddings and babies and pride and a bit of sadness at the passing of time.
In other words, the world is full of everyday dramas and everyday pain, and everyday joys. If you look below the surface, everyone is probably really thinking about those things, not the TV show they're laughing at on the surface. They may or may not have time to read philosophy. They may or may not have the inclination.
But most of them are decent people trying to do their best for their families.
Posted by Michael83 on June 21, 2006, at 21:44:06
In reply to Well » Michael83, posted by Dinah on June 21, 2006, at 21:28:23
>But most of them are decent people trying to do their best for their families.
I agree and I never said they weren't. Whatever makes them happy.
But me? I don't spend my time thinking about the examples you mentioned. I never want kids, I never want to be married, I never want some corporate ladder climbing career, I never want any sort of attachments to anything or anyone and I don't see how anyone can either.
They do what they do, I do what I do, but that doesn't mean I have to like them because I know they don't like me. ;) But if they stay out of trouble, and cause no one harm, I still respect them, and that's good enough.
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